Ray Mitcham

I have hopes of getting those drawings posted today. My webmaster said he received them. In the meantime, a fresh argument has occurred to me against the contention that PrayerMan is on the 1st step. So this is in addition to the preposterously-long legs that ensue from a body-proportion comparison with Tie Man.

http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,8916.4520.html

In the Wiegman gif, PrayerMan stays at the same level, whereas Lovelady raises himself from the 1st step onto the landing. While on the 1st step, the 5'8" Lovelady is several inches below the top of PrayerMan's head. But when he rises onto the landing, Lovelady is a couple of inches above PrayerMan's head.

If PrayerMan were the 5'9" Oswald standing on the 1st step, he would appear approximately equal in height to the 1st-step Lovelady. And close to a step-riser shorter when Lovelady rises onto the landing.

But we don't see that. We see a person shorter than the 5'8" Lovelady, standing on the landing throughout the Wiegman gif.

Albert, "Buttons" Doyle is complaining that you haven't credited him with helping you with your work, Richard.

Quote

" Without crediting me, I see Gilbride has finally made the point I was asking him to make days ago when he was buddying with Stancak. That Unger's Wiegman gif clearly refutes the Prayer Person one step down claim."

Tut tut.

I remember in my incredibly naive youth feeling sorry for the Russian people because they had such a government-controlled media (Pravda and Tass) that wouldn't tell them the truth. Anybody want to join me for a stiff shot of vodka?

The difference, Ron, is that in Russia the government ran the papers. In the US, it's the papers that run the government.

I'll have mine with a dash of tonic and a slice of lime.

Do you think it is at all possible that the photos and the X-rays could have been faked?

No. Of course not. The pictures show JFK. No one else. That, too, was established by the HSCA's Photo Panel.

And, yes, the "other" BOH witnesses were wrong too. And, FWIW, Clint Hill is on record on numerous occasions saying the wound was actually above JFK's right ear---as opposed to being in the very BACK of the head.

And what about the Z-Film, Ray? It shows the wound just where the photos do---the right side of the head above the ear. Is it fake too?

There are also the Elm Street witnesses who place the wound just where we see it in the pics and the Z-Film.....

----

There's your problem David. There is no alternative. A true believer.

Hill said this to W.C. Was he telling lies to the Commission?

Mr. HILL. "The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head."

By the way,the videos you show above, Zapruder said the shot came from behind him, and The Newmans said the shots came from the garden behind them to their right.

Glad to see you believe what they said.

Wanna buy a bridge?

Note the last statement of Custer.

"The current x-rays are forgeries."

And 7 HSCA 41 is something I'm supposed to totally ignore, right Ray?

"The evidence indicates that the autopsy photographs and X-rays were taken of President Kennedy at the time of his autopsy and that they had not been altered in any manner." -- 7 HSCA 41

And the Z-Film is fake too, right Ray?

"The evidence [that they had] indicates that the photographs and ex-rays........."

Note the verb "indicates" -not proves.

I note you say nothing about the witnesses, apart from the Parkland medicos, who saw the rear head wound.

They were all mistaken, David?

Hold the faith, Dave, otherwise you are lost.

I'll ask you just on more question. Do you think it is at all possible that the photos and the X-rays could have been faked?

Why can't you read, Ray? Within my "verbal diarrhea", I answered your question (repeated again below). (As if you didn't know the answer already. Geez. What the heck did you think I was going to say?)

"I still wonder how so many medical professionals could ALL get it totally wrong. But there is BETTER evidence that proves (beyond a reasonable doubt, IMO) that those "BOH wound" witnesses WERE, indeed, incorrect when they claimed the only large wound on the head of John F. Kennedy was located in the occipital area (far-right-rear) of his head. And that "better evidence" is the photographic record of JFK's head wounds, including the autopsy photos, the autopsy X-rays, and the Zapruder Film." -- DVP; May 21, 2009

But it wasn't only the medical professionals that got it "wrong", David.

Clint Hill (the nearest to the President after the shooting.)

"The right rear of his head was missing. It was lying on the rear seat of the car... there was so much blood you could not tell if there had been another wound or not, except for the one gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.

Greer "His head was all shot, this whole part (pointing) was a matter of blood like he had been hit."

Spector : " Indicating the top right rear of the head?

Greer "Yes sir, it loose like that was all blown off."

Kellerman. "He had a large wound this size"

Specter "Indicating with your finger the diameter of 5 inches: would that be approximately correct?"

Kellerman " Indicating the rear portion of the head"

Kellerman " Yes"

Specter "More to the right of the head?"

Kellerman "Right. This was removed... the skull part was removed."

To the ARRB, described a “blow out “ which consisted of a flap of skin in the right temple of the President’s head, which he believed two be an exit wound based on conversations he heard in the morgue amongst the pathologists (and executed two drawings of this right temporal defect on both a photocopy of a right lateral photograph of the President and on a right lateral anatomy diagram of the human skull.

He described ` large open head wound in the back of the Presidents head, centrally located right between the ears, where the bone was gone as well as some scalp.

He described ` large open head wound in the back of the Presidents head, centrally located right between the ears, where the bone was gone as well as some scalp.

Tom Robinson.

"Well, we all worked on-it.arterially and they brought a piece of heavy duty rubber, again to fill this area (area in the back of the head)I remember treating the . . . organs, like I said, we all tried to help one another

JERROL CUSTER: the other X-ray technician told David Lifton that the wound in the skull was posterior in the skull and said that "he exposed, and returned to the morgue, X- rays showing that the rear of the President's head was blown off." ( Best Evidence , p. 620) The extant X-rays show no such thing. In May 29, 1992 and November 18, 1993 press conferences Custer repeated his consistent claim that the

current X-rays are forgeries

Note the last statement of Custer.

"The current x-rays are forgeries."

Lot of written diarrhoea, which didn't answer the question. Do you think the BOH witnesses (not just the Parkland medicos, but the others mentioned above) were right or mistaken?

Lot of verbal diarrhoea, which didn't answer the question. Do you think the BOH witnesses (not just the Parkland medicos, but the others mentioned above) were right or mistaken?

Lot of verbal diarrhoea, which didn't answer the question. Do you think the BOH witnesses (not just the Parkland medicos, but the others mentioned above) were right or mistaken?

None of the BOH witnesses "lied", Ray. None.

And you think the Zapruder Film is a fake too, eh? (Because it most certainly does not show a big hole in the back of JFK's head.)

That means TRIPLE the fakery regarding the photo/film record --- autopsy pics, autopsy X-rays, AND the Z-Film.

How likely is this fakery in triplicate, Ray?

And then you've got to come up with some pretty good excuse to disregard this conclusion reached by the 20 members of the HSCA Photo Panel....

"The evidence indicates that the autopsy photographs and X-rays were taken of President Kennedy at the time of his autopsy and that they had not been altered in any manner." -- 7 HSCA 41

So none of the BOH witnesses lied. Then they were all correct, or mistaken. Which do you think it was, David?

David, you said you couldn't understand why all the witnesses saw a wound to the rear of the President's head.

Have you ever considered that they were all telling the truth and what followed changed the appearance of the head. Do you think more likely that they were all lying? They were doctors, nurses, FBi men, SS guys,military men at the autopsy, and Funeral home guys. All without any dog in the fight. Why would they all lie? They obviously are not all wrong.

Consider which is the more likely. That they all saw a hole in the back of JFK's head and then the photos were altered or faked, or the head witnesses were all wrong and the photos showed the state of JFK's head as it was after he was shot.

Everything else is flim flam.

I don't mean to brag, but can I take some credit here for shutting up DVP?

Not really. I just decided to not say anything for a little while.

I'm a regular windbag at the links below, however....

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/04/index.html#JFK-Head-Wounds

Makes sense when you can't argue against the facts presented here.

If that's not showing "the other side", what would be?

The gaping wound in the back of the head.

How can CBS show its audience something that doesn't exist and never did?

There simply is no "BOH" wound.

Yes, I guess CBS could have spent many minutes discussing the conflicting witness accounts of the President's head wound, which is, btw, still the #1 "mystery" to me in the whole case---and has been for years. I can't fully explain WHY the Parkland witnesses, as well as some Bethesda witnesses, said they saw a huge hole in the back of JFK's head. But the best evidence--the authenticated autopsy photographs and X-rays (plus the Zapruder Film)--trumps those "BOH" witnesses. No matter how many BOH witnesses there are.

"I can't fully understand WHY the Parkland witnesses, as well as some Bethesda witnesses, said they saw a huge hole in the back of JFK's head."

Easy. You don't want to understand.

Clint Hill (the nearest to the President after the shooting.)

"The right rear of his head was missing. It was lying on the rear seat of the car... there was so much blood you could not tell if there had been another wound or not, except for the one gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.

Greer "His head was all shot, this whole part (pointing) was a matter of blood like he had been hit."

Spector : " Indicating the top right rear of the head?

Greer "Yes sir, it loose like that was all blown off."

Kellerman. "He had a large wound this size"

Specter "Indicating with your finger the diameter of 5 inches: would that be approximately correct?"

Kellerman " Indicating the rear portion of the head"

Kellerman " Yes"

Specter "More to the right of the head?"

Kellerman "Right. This was removed... the skull part was removed."

Plus the Parkland doctors who almost to a man stated that the wound was to the occipital/parietal area of the head.

And DVP says they are all mistaken and the photo must be right. He hasn't got the sense to realise that both the witnesses above and the photos could be right,i.e the wounds were altered/or the photos were fake.

According to Book of Von Pein, all the witnesses must have been wrong,/lying/or mistaken.

He can't even contemplate that there was any funny business. But then that's the fault with Zealots.

If the Warren Commission said it happened, in DVP's wonderful whacky world, it must have happened.

Double post

How convenient that the film of Perry survived without sound.

You aren't suggesting something sinister was involved there, are you Ray?

It was simply a case of there being no sound cameras available at Parkland when Perry and Clark gave their conference, as Gary Mack explains in incredible detail in this Internet forum post from December 1999:

~quote on:~

"While the absence of any recordings of the 2:18pm Perry-Clark press conference is disappointing, there is information that explains why. First...I learned there were NO live cameras in that room. Here's why:

1) KRLD's two remote cameras were still at the Trade Mart as late as 1:35pm, when technicians started the long process of packing it all up and moving over to Parkland. This would have taken at least an hour. One camera was put in place in time for Dr. Robert Shaw's conference, which started around 3:30pm (that time is off the top of my head, but it was quite some time AFTER Perry & Clark finished.)

2) WFAA's cameras and remote truck were enroute back to the studio after having been in place at Love Field for the 11:35am landing and live broadcast. Their plans were originally to provide live pool coverage of JFK's return flight. At some point, their truck was sent to Parkland and had just arrived in time to catch the hearse with JFK leaving for Love Field. The other camera, I recall from some other source, was still being unloaded to bring inside the hospital. It would be virtually impossible to have it set up and available until at least 2:30-2:45 or later. They may very well have been waiting for Clark-Perry to finish to get into the room.

3) WBAP's remote truck sat in east Fort Worth at the side of the turnpike (now I-30) with a blown engine and no back up. Eventually, it was towed to Dallas City Hall and sat on Commerce Street the rest of the weekend.

4) KTVT, which offered its remote truck to WBAP in exchange for permission to carry NBC programming (the station was an independent in those days and had only a small news department), headed to Parkland from east Fort Worth, arriving just before 2pm. Their only live camera was poking up through the truck's roof and was turned on and recording as they arrived. Just a few minutes later, the hearse left the hospital with JFK and that scene was recorded. Again, it would have taken 30-45 minutes or more to get that camera moved out of the truck, into the hospital and set up.

In short, none of the stations had video equipment in place to capture the press conference.

As for TV news film cameras, there is a series of still photographs taken by the Fort Worth Star-Telegram of the Perry-Clark conference. The one in Lifton's book was taken early in that sequence. Many of the 30-40 images were shot from the back of the room and show a large, relatively empty classroom with only a few reporters present. Not one microphone or news film photographer are anywhere to be seen!

What this means is that, despite Dr. Malcolm Perry's later explanation to the Warren Commission that there were microphones present, no recordings were made and only a handful of reporters covered it.

This may not make sense to everyone, but TV news was equipment-challenged in those days. The best example is that of WBAP, then and now the NBC affiliate (today known as KXAS), which was far and away the #1 station in the entire Dallas-Fort Worth market in 1963. TV sound film cameras were cumbersome and generally not used for "spot" (breaking) news stories. So little use was made of sound in those days that the station only owned two sound cameras -- one was assigned to the Fort Worth office and one to Dallas.

The Dallas camera that day was held by the station's Bob Welch, who filmed the only sound record of Malcolm Kilduff's announcement of JFK's death at 1:30. Bob then left the hospital and headed to downtown Dallas where there was more important news to cover.

I do not know much about the other stations, other than WFAA had a silent camera there, but it only caught a few seconds of Perry's entrance into the room, suggesting that the photographer may have been sent by the station to another location and was, therefore, absent when the pictures were taken.

As for the radio stations, the photographs show no microphones or audio tape machines in the room. I have heard original and first-generation copies of the radio station tapes, some of which have been in private hands, and there was no live radio broadcast on either KLIF, WFAA, KRLD, KBOX, WBAP, or any other major station, with the possible exception of WRR. Their tapes, or copies, are at the National Archives, but since indexes exist and there's no mention of such a broadcast, perhaps WRR wasn't there. The station was, and remains, owned by the city of Dallas (a highly unusual situation) and did not have much of a news department at all.

So what does all this mean? I have to think, with some first-hand understanding of the business in those days, that only minimal coverage was done. Those kinds of stories are generally routine in nature and can be covered by the newer reporters or the wire services. The big story was what was happening at the TSBD, in Oak Cliff and at the police station, so that's where most reporters went. Others went to Love Field and were there from about 1:45 or 2pm until nearly 3pm.

With breaking stories happening in four different parts of the city, Parkland was left virtually unattended."

-- Gary Mack; December 22, 1999

I'm afraid I don't believe anything the late Gary Mack said about the assassination.

How convenient that the film of Perry survived without sound.

You aren't suggesting something sinister was involved there, are you Ray?

It was simply a case of there being no sound cameras available at Parkland when Perry and Clark gave their conference, as Gary Mack explains in incredible detail in this Internet forum post from December 1999:

~quote on:~

"While the absence of any recordings of the 2:18pm Perry-Clark press conference is disappointing, there is information that explains why. First...I learned there were NO live cameras in that room. Here's why:

1) KRLD's two remote cameras were still at the Trade Mart as late as 1:35pm, when technicians started the long process of packing it all up and moving over to Parkland. This would have taken at least an hour. One camera was put in place in time for Dr. Robert Shaw's conference, which started around 3:30pm (that time is off the top of my head, but it was quite some time AFTER Perry & Clark finished.)

2) WFAA's cameras and remote truck were enroute back to the studio after having been in place at Love Field for the 11:35am landing and live broadcast. Their plans were originally to provide live pool coverage of JFK's return flight. At some point, their truck was sent to Parkland and had just arrived in time to catch the hearse with JFK leaving for Love Field. The other camera, I recall from some other source, was still being unloaded to bring inside the hospital. It would be virtually impossible to have it set up and available until at least 2:30-2:45 or later. They may very well have been waiting for Clark-Perry to finish to get into the room.

3) WBAP's remote truck sat in east Fort Worth at the side of the turnpike (now I-30) with a blown engine and no back up. Eventually, it was towed to Dallas City Hall and sat on Commerce Street the rest of the weekend.

4) KTVT, which offered its remote truck to WBAP in exchange for permission to carry NBC programming (the station was an independent in those days and had only a small news department), headed to Parkland from east Fort Worth, arriving just before 2pm. Their only live camera was poking up through the truck's roof and was turned on and recording as they arrived. Just a few minutes later, the hearse left the hospital with JFK and that scene was recorded. Again, it would have taken 30-45 minutes or more to get that camera moved out of the truck, into the hospital and set up.

In short, none of the stations had video equipment in place to capture the press conference.

As for TV news film cameras, there is a series of still photographs taken by the Fort Worth Star-Telegram of the Perry-Clark conference. The one in Lifton's book was taken early in that sequence. Many of the 30-40 images were shot from the back of the room and show a large, relatively empty classroom with only a few reporters present. Not one microphone or news film photographer are anywhere to be seen!

What this means is that, despite Dr. Malcolm Perry's later explanation to the Warren Commission that there were microphones present, no recordings were made and only a handful of reporters covered it.

This may not make sense to everyone, but TV news was equipment-challenged in those days. The best example is that of WBAP, then and now the NBC affiliate (today known as KXAS), which was far and away the #1 station in the entire Dallas-Fort Worth market in 1963. TV sound film cameras were cumbersome and generally not used for "spot" (breaking) news stories. So little use was made of sound in those days that the station only owned two sound cameras -- one was assigned to the Fort Worth office and one to Dallas.

The Dallas camera that day was held by the station's Bob Welch, who filmed the only sound record of Malcolm Kilduff's announcement of JFK's death at 1:30. Bob then left the hospital and headed to downtown Dallas where there was more important news to cover.

I do not know much about the other stations, other than WFAA had a silent camera there, but it only caught a few seconds of Perry's entrance into the room, suggesting that the photographer may have been sent by the station to another location and was, therefore, absent when the pictures were taken.

As for the radio stations, the photographs show no microphones or audio tape machines in the room. I have heard original and first-generation copies of the radio station tapes, some of which have been in private hands, and there was no live radio broadcast on either KLIF, WFAA, KRLD, KBOX, WBAP, or any other major station, with the possible exception of WRR. Their tapes, or copies, are at the National Archives, but since indexes exist and there's no mention of such a broadcast, perhaps WRR wasn't there. The station was, and remains, owned by the city of Dallas (a highly unusual situation) and did not have much of a news department at all.

So what does all this mean? I have to think, with some first-hand understanding of the business in those days, that only minimal coverage was done. Those kinds of stories are generally routine in nature and can be covered by the newer reporters or the wire services. The big story was what was happening at the TSBD, in Oak Cliff and at the police station, so that's where most reporters went. Others went to Love Field and were there from about 1:45 or 2pm until nearly 3pm.

With breaking stories happening in four different parts of the city, Parkland was left virtually unattended."

-- Gary Mack; December 22, 1999

Delete

How convenient that the film of Perry survived without sound.

DiEugenio, in Part 2 of his CBS article, also says that the press conference given at Parkland Hospital by Drs. Kemp Clark and Malcolm Perry was "filmed". But that is almost certainly incorrect. That conference was very likely not filmed (or videotaped) at all. A text transcript of the press conference does exist, of course, which can be read in its entirety on my site HERE, but there's never been any evidence that any video or film of the conference was ever made.

"Almost certainly incorrect"

"Very likely not filmed"

That's settled it then.

.

Just a thought.

The door into the TSBD was just under 4' wide, (Opening between walls - 11'6', panels divided into three equal divisions.) let's say about 3'8".

No architect worth his salt would never design a 3'6" door to open out on to a 3'6" landing.

Are there any photos of the entrance showing persons standing on the landing in front of the open door?

Cheers, Andrej. You can see that if the top landing was deeper than you have calculated, it could make a huge difference to where PP or BWF could be.

Dear Ray:

the top landing was tiny. You can best check it in the famous photograph in which the doorway is shown from the back through the glass door, I can upload the picture if you would wish.The WC chart showing the top landing as deep is wrong, and I would not draw any conclusions from this drawing.

So you guessed the depth of the landing from a photo?

Seventh riser 7 1/4"

Sixth riser 7 1/4"

Fifth riser 7 1/4"

Fourth riser 7 1/8"

Third riser 7 1/4"

Second riser 7 1/8"

Bottom riser 6 1/4"

The horizontal distance of lip the top step to the lip of the bottom step is 72 11/16"

Ray, just curious, where did you get exact dimensions for each riser? And, are horizontal dimensions available as well?

From the staff at the TSBD.

Yes. The treads are all between 12" and 12 1/8"

Cheers, Andrej. You can see that if the top landing was deeper than you have calculated, it could make a huge difference to where PP or BWF could be.

Dear Ray:

the top landing was tiny. You can best check it in the famous photograph in which the doorway is shown from the back through the glass door, I can upload the picture if you would wish.The WC chart showing the top landing as deep is wrong, and I would not draw any conclusions from this drawing.

How wide was the door that opened out on to the landing?

I guess it was just about 4'.

Cheers, Andrej. You can see that if the top landing was deeper than you have calculated, it could make a huge difference to where PP or BWF could be.

Dear Ray:

the front-to-back dimension of the top landing in my model is 3'6'' 15.

Thanks Andrej.

According to the W.C. scale drawing the distance from the front of the bottom step to the doorway is about 11'6" (Plan view)

As the distance covered by the steps is 6'0" that means that the top landing should be about 5'6"

What was the source of your 3'6"measurement?

Finally, let us approximate Frazier's location during the shooting by checking his visibility in Altgens6. Should Frazier stand on the same spot as we see him in Darnell's picture, he would actually be partly be visible in Altgens6, which is demonstrates in the first figure. The blue plane stands for Altgens6 plane. Please note that a part of Frazier's left shoulder and arm are in the visible space.

Frazier was moved slightly towards the glass door in such a way that his left arm just does not touch the Altgens6 plane, which is illustrated in the next picture.

So, we have two Fraziers. The one in the front would be visible in Altgens6, and the one behind just not.

And here is the front view of Darnell's scene adjusted to ensure Frazier's invisibility in Altgens6.

Thanks for the reply, Andrej.

Just as a matter of interest, what front to back measurement of the landing in front of the door are you using in your model?

Andrej, why have you shown part of the hand in sunlight when the Darnell photo doesn't show that?