Ray Mitcham

Composite photo of JFK and Tippit. By R.D.Morningstar.

Kathleen Collins,

I've always thought the alleged RFK statement -- "It doesn't look like him." -- to be significant.

The conspirators, IMO, were playing two tracks. One track was for the American People. The second track was for the Kennedy Family.

The track for the American People was seized by the press.

The track for the Kennedy Family was seized by that family. The message was, you want to investigate JFK's death, be prepared for all the dirt.

Interesting video Jon,

Did Tippet have a mole on his left shoulder. It would appear that JFK didn't.

When was the anteroom into the lunch room first called a "vestibule" and by whom?

Vestibule is derived from the latin vestibulum --"vesti" meaning clothes and "bulum" meaning place. It was the place where clothes were put on when exiting the house.

Looks like the powers that be, looked for a vestibule after Oz saying was that's where he was and came up with the small anteroom on the second floor.

I agree with you, Bob. That's why I think the bullet hole through the throat was an entry point and above the collar as described by the nurses. The "hole in the shirt story" was thought up later. IMO.

Two facts, rather than opinions.

From Tom's memo noted above.

"Although the hole appears to be caused by a bullet fragment,spectrographic examination of the fabric surrounding the hole revealed no evidence of bullet metal"

The slits, in the front of the shirt, apparently due to an exiting bullet, do not line up.

The slit on the outer side of the shirt s longer than the slit on the inner side of the shirt. How could this have happened?

For what its worth, I think that these "slits" were made long after the shirt left Parkland. .

Double post

Tom, apologies for not answering your question on Bowron's interview. I have been trying to remember where it was. It is in "Killing the `Truth" by Livingstone.

To answer your question about when Hinchcliffe saw the throat wound, according to her testimony, it was before they started removing the President's clothes.

You appear to doubt that there was a bullet wound in JFK's throat, despite the evidence from the people who were there.

Regarding "Cinqueland", the needle idea is so ridiculous as to be travelling in "Cinqueland".

Based solely on the statement below, did Carrico observe the "neck wound" before JFK's shirt and tie were removed?

C. JAMES CARRICO TESTIMONY PARKLAND HOSPITAL 03-25-1964 0930:

Dr. CARRICO: We opened his shirt and coat and tie and observed a small wound in the anterior lower third of the neck...

IMO Carrico is stating that only after opening JFK's shirt and tie did he observe a "small wound" in the neck. i.e. Prior to opening the shirt and tie he had not previously observed the neck wound.

Does anyone disagree, or feel that his statement is ambiguous?

Thanks for any thoughts,

Tom

Tom, I agree that Carrico's testimony could be ambiguous. Do you agree that Nurse Hinchcliffe's testimony isn't in any way?

Mr. SPECTER - Did you see him actually wheeled into the emergency room?

Miss HENCHLIFFE - Yes; in fact, I helped wheel him on into trauma room 1.

Mr. SPECTER - And, where was he when you first saw him?

Miss HENCHLIFFE - He was between trauma rooms 1 and 2.

Mr. SPECTER - Did you see him when he was brought into the hospital itself?

Miss HENCHLIFFE - At the emergency entrance---no. It was after he came into the emergency room.

Mr. SPECTER - He came into the emergency area?

Miss HENCHLIFFE - Yes.

Mr. SPECTER - And then you saw him and helped wheel him, you say, into the emergency room No. 1?

Miss HENCHLIFFE - Yes.

Mr. SPECTER - And who else was present at the time you first saw him when he had just come into the emergency area?

Miss HENCHLIFFE - Let me see, I think Dr. Carrico was there-he was there very shortly after--afterwards.

Mr. SPECTER - He was there when you arrived? Or arrived shortly after you did?

Miss HENCHLIFFE - Well, actually I went in ahead of the cart with him and I was the first one in with him, and just in a minute, or seconds, Dr. Carrico came in.

Mr. SPECTER - And what other doctors arrived, if any?

Miss HENCHLIFFE - Oh, gee. Let's see---there was Dr. Baxter, Dr. Perry, and you want all of them that were in the room?

Mr. SPECTER - If you can remember them.

Miss HENCHLIFFE - Dr. Kemp Clark, Dr. Jenkins, Dr. Peters, Dr. Crenshaw, and there was some woman anesthetist that I don't know which--who it was.

Mr. SPECTER - What did you observe to be the President's condition when you first saw him?

Miss HENCHLIFFE - I saw him breathe a couple of times and that was all.

Mr. SPECTER - Did you see any wound anywhere on his body?

Miss HENCHLIFFE - Yes; he was very bloody, his head was very bloody when I saw him at the time.

Mr. SPECTER - Did you ever see any wound in any other part of his body?

Miss HENCHLIFFE - When I first saw him---except his head.

Mr. SPECTER - Did you see any wound on any other part of his body?

Miss HENCHLIFFE - Yes; in the neck.

Mr. SPECTER - Will you describe it, please?

Miss HENCHLIFFE - It was just a little hole in the middle of his neck.

Mr. SPECTER - About how big a hole was it?

Miss HENCHLIFFE - About as big around as the end of my little finger.

(My bolding)

What about Liggett? He supposedly made the dead body of J.D.Tippit look more like Kennedy, so as to make bullet courses from the back. When Robert Kennedy viewed the open coffin at the white house, he said,"It doesn't even look like him." Then Liggett came into some money, maybe a million. He bought a new home and had poker parties all the time. He loved to gamble and his ex-wife saw him in Las Vegas, when he was supposed to be dead.

Kathy C

Agree with you, Kathy. The Liggett affair needs more investigation. Definitely fishy IMO.

This topic is a joke, right?

Several medicos observed a 5-6 mm puncture (a little less than a quarter inch, like a .223 Remington bullet would make) in the lower right side of the president's larynx. Some observed a nick in the top of the tie knot. The tie is worn UNDER the Adam's Apple, despite how many cartoons you can manufacture showing it differently. The Parkland doctors performed a tracheotomy, using that hole as part of it.

The missile that made that wound came from the SOUTH Knoll, probably from a team of French-Corsican assassins, probably led by Lucien Sarti and/or Jean Souetre. (See Sandy Larsen's topic, "Any prevailing theories on the back wound?") The slug was traveling down at a 15-20* angle through JFK's body rightward. It avulsed the top of the right lung and exited his back between spine and scapula (closer to shoulder blade) at the T3-4 level.

That relatively early shot, as early as Z-200 and no later than Z-220 when he was obscured by the "moved" Stemmons sign, was the first of 6 to hit inside the presidential car. At least 3 others hit outside the limo, maybe 5. For a total of 9-11 shots.

Well said, Roy. These guys are moving in to Cinqueland.

So we have Nurse Bowron, Nurse Hinchcliffe and Dr Carrico who all saw the bullet hole before Perry started treating the President.

Mr. SPECTER - Did you ever see his neck prior to the time you removed the trach tube?

Miss BOWRON - No, sir.

As I stated in my post #197: Diana Bowron never saw the untouched neck wound.

Tom

See Bob's post just above this.

This from Nurse Hincliffe's testimony to the W.C.

Mr Specter "What did you observe to be the President's condition when you first saw him?"

Miss Hinchcliffe "I saw him breathe a couple of times and that was all."

Mr Specter "Did you ever see any wound in any other part of his body?"

Miss Hinchcliffe "Yes; he was very bloody, his head was very bloody when I saw him at the time."

Mr Specter "Did you ever see any other wound in any other part of his body?"

Miss Hinchcliffe "When I first saw- except on his head."

Mr Specter "Did you see any wound on any other part of his body?"

Miss Hinchcliffe "Yes; in the neck."

Mr Specter "Would you describe it please?"

Miss Hinchcliffe "It was just a little hole in the middle of his neck."

Mr Specter "About how big a hole was it."

Miss Hinchcliffe "About as big around as the end of my little finger."

Mr Specter "Have you ever had any experience with bullet holes?"

Miss Hinchcliffe "Yes"

Mr Specter "And what did it appear to you to be ?"

Miss Hinchcliffe "An entrance bullet hole – it looked to me like."

So we have Nurse Bowron, Nurse Hinchcliffe and Dr Carrico who all saw the bullet hole before Perry started treating the President.

Jon, according to Nurse Bowron, the first Doctor too see JFK was Dr Carrico.

She and Nurse Hinchcliffe cut off the Presidents clothing,

This from her WC testimony.

Mr. SPECTER - And were there any other nurses present at that time when the President arrived in the trauma area?

Miss BOWRON - I don't think so, sir.
Mr. SPECTER - Were there any doctors present besides Dr. Carrico?
Miss BOWRON - I didn't notice anybody---there may have been.
Mr. SPECTER - What action did you observe Dr. Carrico take, if any?
Miss BOWRON - We tried to start an I.V. cutdown and I don't know whether it was his left or his right leg, and Miss Henchliffe and I cut off his clothing and then after that everybody just arrived at once and it was more or less everybody sort of helping everybody else. We opened the chest tube trays and the venesectron trays.

This by Dr Carrico

Mr. SPECTER - Who was the first doctor to reach President Kennedy on his arrival at Parkland Hospital?

Dr. CARRICO - I was.
Mr. SPECTER - And who else was with President Kennedy on his arrival, as best you can recollect it?
Dr. CARRICO - Mrs. Kennedy was there, .and there were some men in the room, who I assumed were Secret Service men; I don't know.
Mr. SPECTER - Can you identify any nurses who were present, in addition to Miss Bowron?
Dr. CARRICO - No, I don't recall any of them.

Link not working, Scott.

Nurse Bowron in 1993.

”... I grabbed a gurney in the hall and together with an orderly ran to the entrance.I saw that the person in the back of the car was injured so I climbed in to render what assistance I could until such a time as we could move him to a trolley, then to the trauma room (others were assisting the Governor in the front seat). I saw that there was a massive amount of blood on the back seat and in order to find the cause, I lifted his head and my fingers went into a lrage wound at the back of his head; I turned his head a seeing the size of the wound realized that I could not stop the bleeding. I turned his head back and saw an entry wound in the front of the throat. "

Seems the throat wound was there before the victim was moved into Parkland.

The throat wound was above the tie, not behind it. The shirt shows cuts behind the tie, not a bullet hole.

Mr. Dulles. I see.

As both assassinations (plusMartin Luther King Jnr) were committed by the same people (Imo), then any comments about the three should be allowed as the M.O of the perps begins to coalesce.

Statement of Nina Rhodes-Hughews. Witness to shooting of RFK.

"Sirhan Sirham was to my left and Senator Kennedy was to my right, and I was in the middle, and as I ran towards him, I started to hear shots, and I turned right [?] to Sirhan Sirhan who was standing on a metal steam cable and Reefer[sp?] Johnson and Rosie Grew [sp?] ran to subdue him but there will still shots coming from my right and back of the Senator, I was about six to seven back of him, and it sounded like between ten and fourteen,well, twelve and fourteen shots”

Above starts at 1.22

Just to avoid confusion, something should be pointed out here. In the above video, Nina Rhodes-Hughes states that, while she told the FBI she had heard 14 shots, her FBI statement states she only heard 8 shots.

While this might make some readers think the FBI was admitting to two shooters, I would like to point out Sirhan Sirhan was not shooting a typical six shot revolver. The revolver he was shooting was a .22 LR calibre revolver that held eight rounds.

She says in the video that her statement was "tweeked" by the FBI.

Par for the course, of course.

Statement of Nina Rhodes-Hughews. Witness to shooting of RFK.

"Sirhan Sirham was to my left and Senator Kennedy was to my right, and I was in the middle, and as I ran towards him, I started to hear shots, and I turned right [?] to Sirhan Sirhan who was standing on a metal steam cable and Reefer[sp?] Johnson and Rosie Grew [sp?] ran to subdue him but there will still shots coming from my right and back of the Senator, I was about six to seven back of him, and it sounded like between ten and fourteen,well, twelve and fourteen shots”

Above starts at 1.22

We don't know whether Oswald listed "Hidell" on his application for Dallas P.O. Box #2915 or not, because that section of the application was thrown away when Oswald closed out the box. (Although many CTers think that Harry Holmes was lying about that, too. But, what's new?)

Lots more about LHO's P.O. boxes here....

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/post-office-applications.html

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/07/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-739.html

I believe Harry Holmes when he said he threw the section away. He had to it would have spoiled his story. But I don't believe that he had "Alex Hidell on the form.

Where's DVP?

Add to that that the rifle was addressed to Alex Hidell to a post office box in the name of Oswald, which means it should never have been accepted. It should have been "Returned to sender"

Does anyone here have any ideas as to what the item is that falls to the floor at approximately 7:29 of the Alyea film inside the TSBD. I just spotted it when watching the gun being handled near the end of the YouTube video. I will post a link later, no time right now, off to work. Thanks to any who can provide insight.

Richard, I don't think it is anything falling. I think it is Day lowering his arm from behind his head.

JFK wore a lower back corset outside his shirt. This would restrict any movement upwards of the shirt, no matter how many times he raised his arm.

If the shirt couldn't move, and the position of the holes in the shirt and the jacket match, then the jacket didn't ride up either.

As the holes in the jacket and shirt match the position of the bullet hole in JFK's back, the SBT is proven unsustainable

Merry Christmas to all the contributors on this (generally) friendly forum.

May next year be the year that we solve the mystery.

Filtered part of Moorman by Tom Wilson, showing the hole in the back of KFK's head.

(Photo is screen grab on Kindle.)