Ray Mitcham

Quote: Francois Carlier, Jan 5, 2012

"As a sane person who believes that Lee Oswald was the sole assassin"

Oxymoronic?

Seconded.

Duncan, he's the original Buda pest.

No, Mitchum, you are dead-wrong. There is no way Doorman's left shoulder could be dropped that low. You don't understand that shoulders work together. They are coordinated. He could not possibly drop his left shoulder that low in contrast to what he is doing, and not doing, with his right shoulder. You are living in a cartoon world where bodies can be deformed in any manner. This is the real world. It is not a cartoon. You are not seeing the line of his shoulder. He would have to be some kind of friggin' freak to be contorted like that. Just forget about it. What you are proposing is anatomically and functionally impossible.

Hey, I had a woman visitor recently who happens to be a nurse, an RN, and I showed her the picture, and her immediate response was, "What happened to his shoulder?"

If you insist on being rude and just using surnames, at least get them right. The name is Mitcham.

My dad once told me "If you argue with an idiot, there are two idiots." So I'm not arguing any more with an idiot.

Thanks Duncan, I think that shows that he's Cinque without trace.

Happy birthday from this side of the pond, Kath.

Years ago on Lancer, I remember reading of the possibility that two large fire extinguishers could have been put into the Dallas casket to give it weight -- urban legend, one of many? Regards, Daniel

Daniel, They were not fire extinguishers. They were oxygen bottles

Don't forget the old Irish Saint Malachy. He supposedly named all the Popes of the future. The last pope was named Benedict.

Kathy C

Not quite, Kath. Benedict is supposedly the next to last Pope. The last will be named Peter the Roman, who will lead his sheep through a multitude of problems before the Seven Hills of Rome are destroyed.

Not that I want to seem to be a Job's comforter. :roll eyes:

p.s. do I count as Irish as I love Guinness?

Don't forget the old Irish Saint Malachy. He supposedly named all the Popes of the future. The last pope was named Benedict.

Kathy C

Not quite, Kath. Benedict is supposedly the next to last Pope. The last will be named Peter the Roman, who will lead his sheep through a multitude of problems before the Seven Hills of Rome are destroyed.

Not that I want to seem to be a Job's comforter.

I realize that we are dealing with some vague images here, but still, there are no compelling reasons to think that these two individuals are NOT the same man- unless it is something you WANT to believe-which is not a valid reason to believe it.

Fixed.

I think Cinque is sunk.

The second is that Frazier didn't get to the TSBD that day until after 7:55:

Mr. FRAZIER. Usually, I usually leave not any later than 7:25. I usually try to leave about 7:20, and if you leave at 7:20 you usually get around there, by the time you get down to the parking lot now it is usually pretty close to 5 minutes to 8 and that gives you enough time to walk to the Book Depository, put up your lunch and take off your coat.

If Frazier left at 7:20, he would have arrived at the parking lot at 7:55. But that morning, he left AFTER 7:20:

Mr. FRAZIER. "........I just turned around and looked at the clock to see what time it was and it was right amount 7:21 then and I went in and brushed my teeth real quick and running through the house put my coat on and we left.

( 2 H 226 )

Givens couldn't have seen Oswald at 7:50 if Frazier didn't arrive in the parking lot until after 7:55.

Gil, Because Frazier said he usually left "not later than 7.25" and it "usually" got him there at 7.55, doesn't mean that whatever time he left that he arrived at that time on the 22nd. Isn't that just supposition?

Doorway man's shoulders are roughly in a line of 45 degrees to the vertical. The little triangular shadow just to the right of the shadow of his chin is part of the suit of the man behind, as is the small dark triangle to the right of Doorway man's left arm,and the two white lines are the shirt either side of the tie of the same man.

Seems to me that the white blob, which Jim says has been added to hide a face, just below the up stretched arms, is caused by a woman waving a handkerchief in front of the man.

None of the body of the black guy in front of doorway man is visible, as only his head is sticking out, so Doorway man's arm cannot be overlapping his body.

Just my 2c .

In the late fifties, we, in the R.A.F had access, as fighter radar controllers, to both height and distance radar side by side so there would have been no problem for Oswald, as a radar operator, to know the climb rates of the U2.

David, you have just shown how one cannot trust the Warren Commission Report. O'Donnell stated in his evidence to the Commission that he did not make the decision. But the Warren Commission stated that he did.

And speaking of Lovelady's left arm - the pose in the TSBD doorway in Altgens 6, where Lovelady's arm seems to cross the shoulder and neck of an African-American man standing on the step below him, is definitely odd. Were they close friends, or only on camera? See post #255.

David, the black guy's body is behind the corner of the wall with just his head showing. It appears that Lovelady's arm is in front of the guy's body, only because the perspective makes it appear so.

Not to make the obvious point, but there is NO FLAP, so I can't possibly be the same shirt. Case closed!

The top of the pocket apears where the "white lines" are brocken.

Re the v shaped t shirt, if you enlarge the Altgens photo sufficiently you can see the start of the round neck just before it goes into the v shaped shadow.(To the left of Lovelady's chin as we look at it. )

Unfortunately because of restrictions on this machine, I can't submit an enlargement to show what I mean.

Just my 2 cents

More likely that the person whose face was erased from the photo could have been Oswald. Who altered the photo anyway?

"Simmons said he thought it was the motorcycle cop at the left front of the limo who got in the way, and

made it appear he was trying to find out what was going on...."

This seems to support Greer's comment that he "should have swerved " What else would have caused Greer to want to swerve? Would this seem to confirm that the limo stopped?

"Voltaire once said of Martin Luther that if he hadn't had lived it would have been necessary to invent him;"

Sorry to be pedantic, Robert, but Voltaire's quote was "If God had not existed...."

As a matter of interest, what do you guys think caused "LHO" to drop his wallet? Was he involved in a fracas? If as stated, he just shot Officer Tippit, what would cause him to drop his wallet? It would need a steam shovel to get me to drop my wallet. Seems much too convenient for my way of thinking.

Ray,

I agree. Even if Oswald did take his wallet out of his pocket on the pretense of showing him his ID and then shot him instead, it's unrealistic to think that he wouldn't have taken the time to retrieve it.

BTW, I don't think Oswald killed Tippit.

--Tommy

Neither do I, Tom.

As a matter of interest, what do you guys think caused "LHO" to drop his wallet? Was he involved in a fracas? If as stated, he just shot Officer Tippit, what would cause him to drop his wallet? It would need a steam shovel to get me to drop my wallet. Seems much too convenient for my way of thinking.

And just how did the taping add to the conspiracy, it only added a complication you have yet to explain away, how did the killers do the deed without producing any suspicious sounds?

I assumed the footstep sounds are quite suspicious. They do not necessarily (given the context of the murder itself) have to have belonged to DeM.

There are also what appears to be (possibly barefoot) footprints in the blood leading away from DeM in the death scene.

They also appear to belong to someone who is a flatfoot. (DPD? )

And who is the tall guy in the background with the white shirt over white t-shirt?

Thanks to anybody who can answer these questions.

BK

Good question.Bill. Didn't some witnesses to the shooter say he had a white shirt on over a white t shirt?

Best of luck to you both, Kathy and Tommy, from this side of the pond. Stay positive.

Len, If de Mohrenschildt was wearing socks, he couldn't have made the sound of the ghostly footsteps. Somebody else must have made them.