Larry Hancock

Hi Greg, thanks for the kinds words. Actually though, if the ARRB had not done some very good homework on this subject it would probably still be a mystery. We can only wonder how much more we would know if they had done similar work on other areas as was done on the 112th and on some of the medical areas by Doug Horne. One of the positive elements is that the ARRB actually tracked down and interviewed several Dallas 112th personnel including Powell - plus they interviewed Reich who is mentioned in the widespread "stand down" story about the 112th. Powell was of course in DP that day and had taken vacation to view the President's arrival, he used his own camera and when he got trapped in the TSBD they even sent an Army camera down for him to use officially. Powell was the mystery man who began an interview with Brennan also....not an SS person as Brennan thought. The interview was interrupted with Powell got a chance to to in on the TSBD search. One example of Jone's lack of knowledge and reliability is that in one of his interviews he even chides Powell for the lack of a report and not submitting his photos to HQ.....when we have a copy of Powells report to his superior in Dallas about the incident and his reference to taking photos which he had turned over to the FBI at their request. As I recall there was another on duty member of the 112th in the area that day as he had been at the gun running meeting which was being held after the Masen bust and which was also attended by Hosty....his name escapes me this morning. The Army officer in the lead car was not from the 112th which was active duty but rather an Army Reserve officer who happened to be a personal friend of Lumpkin (Larry Haapenan did the work on this); he asked his buddy if he could get him into the parade - afterwards it became an embarassment for them both as officially he should not have been there. He is sometimes described as an intelligence officer but that point is an open one and there seems to be no primary reference for it that anyone has turned up yet. That is a point that could probably be researched in Austin if someone wanted to dig into the Texas Guard and Reserve units and see what Intel detachments/components show up - plus their personnel rosters circa 1963. -- Larry -- Larry

Tosh and Chris, let's see, if I recall Tosh made a post mentioning that people had questioned that Seiwell was a real person at all. Then there was a discussion of records being burned and missing. I made a post indicating that Seiwell was a real person, had a real military career and stated where somebody could begin digging beyond the point I mentioned, that the last file I was awere of showed he had left the reserve in 1950. I suggested a place for researchers to go to take it from there. I'm not sure exactly why you both seemed to respond as if that was some sort of attack or challenge.....? The challenge is to find further records that might exisit isn't it? Of course as I've told Tosh, my real interest is in his activities in 1963 and in Dallas and I've given him questions on that and promised not to pester him until he is comfortable with posting his own full story. -- guess I'd best leave it at that. Larry

Tosh, the Texas State Adjutant-General's Office in Austin did find the records of Captain Edward G. Seiwell. He enlisted in the Texas Forty-ninth Calvalry Recon Squadron in 1947 was upgraded to second Lt and finally transferred as a Captain to the National Guard's 49th Armored Division in February of 1950. His records show he resigned from the National Guard a month later in 1950. That might be a start for anybody who wants to pursue it with the Adjutant Generals office. -- Larry

Excellant Antti, right to the point - and of course one the FBI dodged totally and the WC let them get away with. After all, this is only one of three photos supposeldy in Oswald's possession so its not like it removes any evidence for Oswald at least doing photo surveillance on Walker. And it seems that if the car meant something in particular to Oswald he could just destroyed that picture totally if not all of them. So, either the car tag did mean something to Oswald...suggesting something much more complex about the Walker thing than anybody wanted to investigate. Or the car tag meant something to the officers involved and they scratched it off and were willing to comment perjury - something that sounds pretty stupid at this distance. Or just maybe he showed the photos to somebody else who told him in no uncertain terms to get the tag off there. I wish I could come up with something that makes sense but unless multiple DPD officers lied about it, then to me it suggests that whatever Oswald was up to in regard to Walker, there is more going on with it than just Oswald by himself and that it may well have been a different 57 Chevy than the one owned by Walker's associate. The one thing we lack in the FBI report is a quote from the DPD that they verified with the supposed Chevy owner that it was his car on the date in question - and we know the FBI did not attempt to confirm that, or if they did there is no sign of it in their report. -- Larry

Hi Antti, I hesitate to to post again on this as I did a lengthy one a couple of weeks ago- but it was buried in a thread and you may not have seen it. Actually the WC requested the FBI to resolve the issue of the defaced plate and there is a lengthy report in the volumes on their reply. Basically it documents DPD officers who found the photo and swore it was defaced when collected with Oswald's belongings. Also the DPD did apparently investigate the place and identified the car's owner informing the FBI of it. It was a local Walker supporter in Fort Worth who apparently frequented Walkers house. Of course having seen the FBI effort on covering up the Odio incident its always possible to question the FBI's work - but I did want to make sure you were aware that both the DPD and FBI did tackle the issue and at least put forth an ID. I had talked with Mary Ferrell about this long ago and she dug into it and was satisfied that the car had been identified. Of course all that certainly does not mean Vidal didn't drive a 57 Chevy to Dallas either. -- Regards, Larry Great post Don Roberdeau! Just a question that has been bothering me since I first heard the license plate had been scratched out from the photo: How is it that Gen Walker could not identify the car or the owner of the car parked in his driveway? The only explanation I can think of is, he didn't want to have it identified, becuase there is something sinister about it. Had the DPD wanted to identify the car, they could have done so. Could this man Harold Bishop from the CIA, with ties to Cubans, actually be the man thought to have been Maurice Bishop a.k.a. David A. Phillips? <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

John, thank you for looking it up - its pretty amazing to me that he would make such a bold statement, essentially quote a former President on conspiracy and not even provide a specific source or reference - I'd be embarassed. Perhaps someone else can see a tie to Ford in the source material you listed, I'm familiar with most of the oral histories and its certainly not in any of that. But I'm no Ford expert so something pertinent may be in there somewhere. Knowing you, you will probably find out if this author is living and where he is so perhaps we can gently ask him for his source...grin. I'll be the first to admit I was not even aware of his book. -- Larry

Hi Tosh, thanks for the post. I do think its important that somebody try to some up with the source what you described in regard to C. David Heymann’s book, RFK: A Candid Biography of Robert F. Kennedy (1998). Hopefully somebody can come up with a copy and let us know - that would be a heck of a bombshell for a writer to throw into a book and not cite a source for it. As many forum members know, I certainly belive that Roselli aided and abetted the conspiracy as one of the organizers of the attack - not only that but there is evidence to suggest that he was directly involved not only into bringing Ruby into the plot and perhaps more importantly in covering up Ruby's associations and actually managing Belli's defense of Ruby in a manner to take Ruby out of circulation and get him convicted. There are also some very specific holes in the FBI surveillance and records on Roselli. My goal for some time now has been to point them out and get others involved in trying to run down the specific holes that we do know about. I appreciate your taking time on the questions I sent and I won't pester you on any of them until you are ready - I have been investigating the Texas Military Intelligence leads you provided with little luck so far. We actually do have pretty solid documentation on Fourth Army and the MI units attached to it because of all the background work the ARRB did but so far no luck in turning up the specific detachements or individuals you referenced. -- Larry

If anyone can identify some specific documents pertaining to Roselli that are still being held confidential until some future date I would love to see the list so we can try to get them via FOIA. Roselli's testimony to the Committees is released and available, it is extremely lengthy though. In addition you can find literally thousands of pages of FBI documents on Roselli on the WEB including surveillance documents. These documents pretty well detail the FBI's position on Roselli - unfortunately large portions pertaining to his business contacts and associates was redacted by the FBI. The documents in this release came from a FOIA and cover a period of some 20 years. There is a hole in the documents as far as the FBI surveillance goes and that hole is from the September - November time frame in 1963; a related hole appears to be the lack of any reports from SAC Miami on Roselli. Beyond that, there are a host of CIA IG, Church committee and State Department documents that detail his part in the Castro assassination plot - including correspondance between the FBI and CIA on his role. Most of this is on the CIA segregated CD's available from the ARRC - I mention that because it is a huge amount of paper and the CD's are definitely the easiest way to get it. Also these documents contain all the details of the FBI and Dade country investigation of his murder. -- Larry

David, I've posted the speakers here before so I won't repeat that. The conference is a mix of i) new research ii) presentations on new resources for research and on working at NARA iii) exposure to people with first hand information such as Aubry Rike, James Teague, the manager at the Cellar and Richard Caine's brother (who is a researcher himself) plus a couple of general items for newcomers including a guided walking tour of the Plaza (and there are still necomers to this subject such as our student researcher of the year). There is a good deal of new information, much of it coming out of documents released from the work of the ARRB but also some from primary research. Examples include new first hand chemical tests and evaluation of the WC NAAA findings (and comparison to the released internal documents on that), new interviews with Bethusda staff and especially with the FBI agents at the autopsy, a new presentation on the internal medical reports at Parkland. A combination of new documents and primary research is in my presentation on an apparent NSA station intercept of gossip about the planned attack on JFK a month before the assassination. Rex Bradford will be presenting an analysis of what we now know fo the very strange handling and disposal of the JFK coffin.... well one of them at least. Jeff Morley and Lamar Waldron will be presenting topics related to Cuba, the Kennedy administration and the CIA, both presentations are directions to more work that needs to be done - both or either may eventually turn out to be explosive but for right now it's just basic research on things we didn't even know a couple of years ago. I wish I could tell you there were a host of "explosive" items on the agenda but based on my experience it doesn't work that way most of the time; however I can say that some of the most active current day researchers working on new areas of research will be in Dallas and it's a great way to network with them and get the newest information that may take some time to get into print or even online. -- Larry

Dave, I would have a hard time thinking that was Martino for a variety of reasons - I do know there are a number of interviews relating to who Sylvia was contacting to try to buy guns for Rey and Jure. She was far more active in that early in 63 than is picked up in most discussion and even met with Rey's people about during a visit to some of her relatives that year (either Puerto Rico or the DR, forget which without looking it up). I would more likely think that it was a contact through some of those people than Martino, hard to think that Sylvia's sister who attended Martino's speech and told Sylvia bout their family being mentioned by Martino would not know if Martino was a close friend in Dallas. Also I have certainly turned up nothing that would indicate Martino driving to Dallas in 1963, if he did his family didn't know about it and incidentally they said he stayed at home most of the time except for his speeches and the Tilt mission, not unusual for someone just out of a Castro prison. ....don't have an ID for you but doubt that it was Martino.

Greg, the sources for my remarks were Westin's research, published mostly in the Third and Fourth Decade but also in some of his posts on the Lancer forum - plus some primary research by Glen Sample in relationship to Loy Factor's remarks about being in the TSBD. I've done no primary work on it myself.... One thing to keep in mind though is that there were a series of Oswald "sightings" where he was apparently being impersonated looking for jobs or making inquiries about buildings and views on Main Street. There is also a documented job application from Oswald out towards the general area of the Trade Mart after he was in the job at the TSBD. It seems likely that the plotters were creating optional backgrounds for a varitey of possibly attack sites in case of a last minute route change. Main street would have been a given in just about any case though. Best wishes in your TSBD research, Larry

Tosh, I'm checking in with Gordon and will post any remarks he has about the logs and whether or not he has them or knows where they are... -- Larry

Tim, I don't really play games with this subject - so no its not. I have seen Roselli described as a Col. in a couple of places, Brad Ayars is one source for that. I think Hinckle and Turner may have described him as having a military rank too. However I don't recall ever seeing any CIA document that confirms that - frankly after looking at thousands of such documents that doesn't mean I haven't seen it, it very well could mean I saw it and have forgotten - my memory is fair but far from photographic. I think that if I had seen such a document I would have referenced it and put it in my book though....maybe somebody will remind me it's in there... After about 14 years at this my memory "buffer" is overflowing, no doubt about that. If you have seen it and can describe the source I may well remember it and probably have it somewhere in my files or on CD. In that case I would add it to my errata and credit you as I have a host of people who are helping me make that work as historically accurate as possible. -- Larry

That's a good lead Tosh, and maybe I can help a bit there. I have the file on the local investigation of the Roselli murder and several of the internal memoranda from the agents as well as their requests for information on a list of individuals. Black was on the list and there were several other names including Cuban names. In addition to background information on associations the investigators (in the same letters) asked for the names of any exiles who Roselli had named in his confidential HSCA interviews. (On a side note, we know from Roselli's lawyers that in his last testimony he did give names for a couple of Trafficante people that he had used to network into Cuba to find folks to plant the poison pills - apparently word that he had mentioned some real names did get back to Miami and that may have led to the contract on him). Anyway, by asking for those names, the investigators pressed the normal CIA hot button for protecting information and CIA began its typical stonewalling process - reading their correspondance gives one a good feel for their prorities and certainly protecting sources and methods always comes before minor things like solving muders... These internal memos do include short profiles for some of the names including Black (for internal consumption only; sort of like the ones produced internally during the Garrison investigation - not to give out of course but just a quick look to see if they should really be worried about the names being requested. As I recall they did list some very basic info. about Black but nothing suggesting any Agency association). However they essentially refused to provide anything to the invistigators at all and as far as I can tell they didn't, as usual defending their general right not to disclose information and invoking National Security as a blanket justification (sort of like Presidential Previlege...sigh). You are certainly right that the investigators wanted to know about Black - but he was only one person on the list. One lead the guys were following was that not long before his death Roselli had gone back to LA and reportedly had some meetings which they thought certain parties might have interpreted as Roselli thinking about coming out of retirement - leading to some push back and perhaps a contract on him. -- hope that helps, Larry

Tosh, I'm curious as to what particular files or documents you feel are un-released on Black? Unfortunately the NARA search engine seems to be down this afternoon but when I can I will hit it and post if I see any unreleased documents on him. If you have something specific on him that you know is unreleased we can check it out but that would be new to me......also you had asked if researchers had ever interviewed him and the answer on that would be yes they have. Rappleye and Becker interviewed him and in fact researched him at some length for their book on Roselli, that was in the early 90's. Morrow interviewed him earlier but got nothing more than dinner conversation as I recall. Schriber did some digging on him when he wrote his book on the "Bobby Baker Affair." About the only thing that Rapplyeve and Becker found was that Black denied passing on a warning to Roselli that was described by friends and relatives. That may well have been because Black would have had to explain why he was well enough connected to get a rumor that a contract was out on Roselli. Such a contract has been mentioned by oher associates of Roselli but of course that's something in the rumor class. -- Larry

Hi Greg, yes I'm aware that Williams said that - he may have been told that by supervisor or just heard it as talk at work. I think it was Williams who normally worked at the other TSBD building over NW of the Plaza and who was moved over to the Elm street building work on the floors - so it would make sense as he might indeed have been out of work otherwise. One of the confusing remarks has been something to the effect that an outside crew had been brought in to work on the flooring - apparently what that really meant was that some people who were working on it that were either new hires or from the other building. The floor project wasn't the only work under way, they had worked on the elevators previously and were working on the back stairs as well in November as I recall. They had just finished the fifth floor work and were in the first phase of reworking the sixth on November 22, moving boxes to clear space to work. -- Larry

For the real deal on the TSBD building and various activities there I'd refer you all to various research articles by William Weston. He has done more work on it than anyone else - actually the repair project was not at all make work but it was driven by the fact that the TSBD had only moved into the'building within the last year or so and it had been a grocery warehouse before that with much of the upper flooring badly damaged and not in condidition to bear the weight of large amounts of heavy book cartons. What is perhaps more interesting though is why the TSBD had grown it's inventory so dramatically in a short span of time and why there were so many books in the building in November - usually a light inventory time as the school year shipments should have been virtually over, it was a pretty seasonal business. .... Larry

Tosh, I can supply a little information although I don't know if Black is still alive, if so he would be quite old as he was certainly middle aged in 1963. I've certainly never seen him on any suspicious death lists. Black's connections were almost entirely high level legal and government associations, he was one of the first "super lobbyists" making hundreds of thousands of dollars from corportations circa 1960. His two major clients appear to have been North American Aviation and Howard Foundries, both with significant government contracts. He was the subject of both FBI and Congressional investigation related to both those clients, the Baker affair was big trouble to him but even more was the Howard Foundry investigation which blew up in 1964 and was a major concern to Johnson as it involved a 2.7 million Air Force contract. Black was also the subject of an FBI wire tap investigation and successfully challenged the FBI in Court and as part of the Baker thing. I recall seeing Black testimony but I don't know if that was HSCA or some of the other investigations, in any event Black said as little as possible and pretty much denied knowing anybody he was asked about other than in passing. I don't think there has ever been any sign that Black had been associated with operational Cuban exiles or really with anybody other than lawyers, high ranking government employees and various high flyers within the Las Vegas and L.A. crime set such as Roselli and Levinson. -- Larry

John and William, there were a host of warnings from Dallas and Texas in general. Some in writing, most verbal. From community leaders, from politicians etc. Manchester probably does the best job of laying out exactly how many warnings with examples - in several cases the folks were worried enough to go to Kennedy's staff. Remember, the fears of violent demonstration were strong enough for the City Council to pass a special law dealing with that specifically as a last minute precaution for the JFK visit and the Chief of Police felt strongly enough to go on public TV to call for everyone to help the police quell any such demonstrations or protests. -- Larry

Tim, I'm very interested in the FBI/CIA records which identify Roselli as "Col" ......I'm familiar with the name as an alias but I'd really appreciate the document references where is is discussed with a military rank.. -- thank you, Larry

As a follow-on to James remark, it is interesting that in his DPD statement immediately following the assassination, Arce gives not only the names of fellow workers but that it is not necessarily just their first names as he might have heard them called but in most cases their full names. Seemed interesting for a virtual new hire to have that complete a knowledge of all his fellow workers. About the only other thing of note is that based on arrest records it appears that he developed a pretty bad drinking problem starting not long after the assassination. -- Larry

John, Cubela was not executed but spent several years in what was reportedly pretty light confinement - not exactly the sort of thing you would expect for someone who had offered to kill Castro for years. As I recall he was eventually released but I don't know when or if he is deceased. It's important to know that Castro was extremely good at compromsing potential "traitors"; the records we have from AM/TRUNK and AM/WHIP tell us that Castro approached many of the less trusted members of his cadre and would tell them that he knew the CIA would be approaching themand that all they needed to do was report the fact to him and play along and there would be no problem. This worked really well and CIA eventually shut down the whole project because they realized that virtually everyone had been compromised and was under surveillance. It's almost impossible that Castro did not suspect Cuebela or take some special precautions considering Cubela's relatively frequent foreign travel. -- Larry

Shanet, CIA used crypts written communication "crypts" for individuals, for groups and for projects. Normally all CIA officers used crypts in internal communications and in their professional contacts. Carlos Prio Socarres was a former Cuban President and one of the old school leaders among the Cubans, he helped finance Castro's overthrow of Batista and then went into exile. His surrogate political action man after that was Dr. Antonio de Verona. Verona's cript was AM/HAWL Rolondo Cubela was a Cuban student leader who was pretty much a competitive leader to Castro during the overthow of Batista and became part of Castro's ruling clique. However he was recurited by the CIA and for a number of years was courted as a CIA asset; Cubela offered numerous times to assassinate Castro but the CIA was more interested in him organizing a coup. It is still a matter of debate whether he was sincere of a Castro double agent. His crypt was AM/LASH. -- Larry

Tosh, there is a huge amount of information about both Black and Morgan available. Black was investigated very througly because of his business partnership with Baker, the Baker influence pedaling scandal and later because of other charges brought against Baker for at least one of his other clients. Morgan and his role are documented in State Department documents, Church Committee documents and HSCA documents all of which resulted from the investigation of the CIA's use of Roselli. Fred Black is also covered extensively in the autobiography of Roselli. -- Larry

James, a few years ago Carlos B. began selling certain items online and since that point I know several researchers who have chatted with him on line and one who went to the effort of going down and meeting with him. The net result is that Carlos sticks 100% to his remarks about Oswald and Castro sponsorship and that is all anybody is going to get from him. Having him at a conference would net you the same story that is in print in many places....it might be interesting to some to meet him as a witness to Oswald but I don't think it would contribute anything to research per se. However I don't know of anyone who has ever offered him an invitation. On the other hand if the DRE DIA memo files were to come to light they could possibly go a long way to resolving the whole question of the initial contact with Oswald and the exile reaction to him. It's pretty hard to belive that they would not report a suspicious new contact or talk about the leafletting or street encounter. -- Larry