Paul Trejo
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7 minutes ago, Ernie Lazar said:
...Oswald's 1963 interaction with the DRE in New Orleans is one in a series of bizarre episodes in the life of the Marine who had earlier defected to the Soviet Union only to return two and half years later.
On Aug. 5, 1963, Oswald approached a DRE member and offered his services to the militant anti-Castroites. Yet four days later the member, Carlos Bringuier, saw Oswald on a street handing out leaflets for a pro-Castro group.
Called the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, the group's New Orleans chapter in reality wasn't a bona fide group at all, having only one member — Oswald. A fight ensued, and both were arrested. The two subsequently appeared on a radio debate over Cuba on a New Orleans radio station.
We still owe a debt of gratitude to New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison, who, in 1968, revealed to America all the research he had been doing in New Orleans regarding Lee Harvey Oswald's activities there in the summer of 1963.
It was Jim Garrison who revealed that the New Orleans chapter of the FPCC wasn't a bona fide chapter, but a Fake FPCC. Jim Garrison also showed that the filming of Oswald on the streets of New Orleans as an alleged "Communist," was staged by the same people who helped Oswald set up this Fake FPCC there at 544 Camp Street.
History will remember Jim Garrison -- with all his faults -- as one of the true American heroes of the JFK CT saga.
All best,
--Paul Trejo, MA -
Jason,
Thanks for your hard work analyzing the WC testimony of Dallas Deputy Roger Craig. You already see many of the anomalies. His changing his story about the bullets is another anomaly.
Also, the fact that he was (1) fired from the Sheriff's office for speaking with Jim Garrison and Penn Jones Jr; and (2) met a violent death after multiple attempts on his life; make his story more interesting.
Yet perhaps the most important part of his story, for these purposes, is that the DPD police and Sheriff's department denied his WC testimony. Here is the testimony of DPD Captain Will Fritz:
Mr. BALL. Roger Craig stated that about 15 minutes after the shooting he saw a man, a white man, leave the Texas State Book Depository Building, run across a lawn, and get into a white Rambler driven by a colored man.
Mr. FRITZ. I don't think that is true.
Mr. BALL. I am stating this. You remember the witness now?
Mr. FRITZ. I remember the witness; yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did that man ever come into your office and talk to you in the presence of Oswald? ...
Mr. FRITZ. No, sir; I am sure he did not. I believe that man did come to my office in that little hallway, you know outside my office, and I believe I stepped outside the door and talked to him for a minute and I let someone else take an affidavit from him. We should have that affidavit from him if it would help.
Mr. BALL. Now this man states that, has stated, that he came to your office and Oswald was in your office, and you asked him to look at Oswald and tell you whether or not this was the man he saw, and he says that in your presence he identified Oswald as the man that he had seen run across this lawn and get into the white Rambler sedan. Do you remember that?
Mr. FRITZ. I think it was taken, I think it was one of my officers, and I think if he saw him he looked through that glass and saw him from the outside because I am sure of one thing that I didn't bring him in the office with Oswald.
Mr. BALL. You are sure you didn't?
Mr. FRITZ. I am sure of that. I feel positive of that. I would remember that I am sure...
Mr. BALL. After he had said, "That is the man," that Oswald got up from his chair and slammed his hand on the table and said, "Now everybody will know who I am." Did that ever occur in your presence?
Mr. FRITZ. If it did I never saw anything like that; no, sir.
Mr. BALL. That didn't occur?
Mr. FRITZ. No, sir; it didn't. That man is not telling a true story if that is what he said...It is something I don't know anything about.
Here we can see that DPD Captain WIll Fritz told the WC that Deputy Roger Craig ws "not telling a true story." Soon after this, Deputy Roger Craig would be fired from his job at the Dallas County Sheriff's department. His next job would be as a grocery bagger and shopping cart collector at a supermarket.
All best,
--Paul -
21 hours ago, Jason Ward said:
Police and Sheriff testimony in the Warren Commission Part 5: Dallas County Sheriff Bill Decker...
- CONCERNS:
- The US president has been shot and the county sheriff is not asked about this crime.
- Apart from investigative duties; Decker is an assassination witness. Why is he not asked where the shots came from and other details he remembered in Dealey Plaza?
- Dallas County Sheriff Bill Decker is not questioned for further details around his activity at Parkland Hospital, nor the activities of his department on 22 November 1963 at the Texas Theater and Ruth Paine's house.
- What orders did Sheriff Bill Decker give his staff at the time of the assassination? At the time of Oswald's pursuit?
- What are the details surrounding sheriff department discovery of the weapon and shell casings?
- This witness was the least examined of any so far; he is allowed to simply tell his story and is asked only a few details about what arrangements were made for transferring Ruby. The death of Kennedy is completely ignored.
Jason,
I find that your analysis is 99% correct. The 1% missing is that Sheriff Bill Decker, only seconds after the JFK Assassination, ordered his Deputies to rush to the "railroad yard" (the parking lot behind the Grassy Knoll). That is not in his WC testimony, but it is in the DPD radio transmission transcript of 11/22/1963. Here is that transmission:
12:30 p.m. KKB 364. noise for 3 minutes, 11 seconds on this tape. Dallas 1 (Chief Jesse Curry) Go to the hospital - Parkland Hospital. Have them stand by. 603 (ambulance) 603 out. 1 Get a man on top of that triple underpass and see what happened up there. noise for 34 seconds on this tape. 1 Have Parkland stand by. 
91 (Ptm. W.D. Mentzel and Ptm. J.W. Courson) 91 clear. Dallas 1 (Sheriff J.E. "Bill" Decker) I am sure it's going to take some time to get your man in there. Pull every one of my men in there. Dispatcher 531, testing: 1 2 3 4. Dispatcher Dallas 1, repeat, I didn't get all of it. I didn't quite understand all of it. Loud and clear. Dallas 1 Have my office move all available men out of my office into the railroad yard to try to determine what happened in there and hold everything secure until Homicide and other investigators should get there. 48 (Ptm. A.D. Duncan) 48, loud and clear. Dispatcher 10-4. Dallas 1 -Station 5 will be notified. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/
All best,
--Paul -
On 3/18/2018 at 9:53 PM, Jason Ward said:
The story of how Truly determines Oswald is missing, why he fixates on Oswald, and how the DPD acquire Ruth Paine's address leaves some room for doubt, IMO.
You don't have to believe Truly was in on the assassination conspiracy to wonder if he nevertheless was less than sincere in explaining why Oswald was singled out and why he helped the DPD explain where they found Paine's address. Truly cannot explain why he decides Oswald is missing; he further suggests he cannot correctly describe Oswald (so how would he know he was missing???).
Truly's helpful initiation of Oswald into an object of suspicion fits nicely with the overall story, as soon after Oswald's name is mentioned, the DPD narrative says Fritz hears of Tippit's shooting. The progressive story of how Oswald is captured proceeds in neat formulaic style, A + B + C = D. Truly provides point A, the transformation of Oswald from mere bystander into suspect.
All this is a point f concern, it's not necessarily evidence of collusion or deception.
1. 22NOV63 DPD case report filed by Capt. Fritz notes defendant was identified by Fritz in the TSBD:
2. Conspiratorial or not, Truly is the critical node ensuring Oswald is a suspect right away. From WC staff memo 2 March 1964:
3. WC Direct testimony of Truly:
<<<<===Truly cannot give an answer.
4. TSBD superintendant Truly is not a JFK fan:
From the Dealey Plaza Echo, Volume 11, No. 2, July 2007.
.....citing William Manchester's The Death of a President (1967), p. 162.
5. Oswald's application to the TSBD:
The story of how Truly determines Oswald is missing, why he fixates on Oswald, and how the DPD acquire Ruth Paine's address leaves some room for doubt, IMO.
You don't have to believe Truly was in on the assassination conspiracy to wonder if he nevertheless was less than sincere in explaining why Oswald was singled out and why he helped the DPD explain where they found Paine's address. Truly cannot explain why he decides Oswald is missing; he further suggests he cannot correctly describe Oswald (so how would he know he was missing???).
Truly's helpful initiation of Oswald into an object of suspicion fits nicely with the overall story, as soon after Oswald's name is mentioned, the DPD narrative says Fritz hears of Tippit's shooting. The progressive story of how Oswald is captured proceeds in neat formulaic style, A + B + C = D. Truly provides point A, the transformation of Oswald from mere bystander into suspect.
All this is a point f concern, it's not necessarily evidence of collusion or deception.
1. 22NOV63 DPD case report filed by Capt. Fritz notes defendant was identified by Fritz in the TSBD:
2. Conspiratorial or not, Truly is the critical node ensuring Oswald is a suspect right away. From WC staff memo 2 March 1964:
3. WC Direct testimony of Truly:
<<<<===Truly cannot give an answer.
4. TSBD superintendant Truly is not a JFK fan:
From the Dealey Plaza Echo, Volume 11, No. 2, July 2007.
.....citing William Manchester's The Death of a President (1967), p. 162.
5. Oswald's application to the TSBD:
Jason,
Although I'm a CTer, I tend to be extremely cautious before linking anybody with the JFK assassination. So, I may be mistaken about Roy Truly, but in my reading, his is clueless.
I have an alternate reading of the facts that you cited for Roy Truly in his fixation on Lee Harvey Oswald as a susicious person of interest in the JFK Assassination. Truly was sincere, IMHO, and this is how it happened.
1. Within one minute of the JFK Assassination, motorcycle cop Marrion Baker sped to the TSBD. In the opinion of Baker, the shooter was actually on top of the roof. He thought he saw this from his position in the JFK parade, from the corner of Main and Houston streets, riding his motorcycle, and looking up at the TSBD when the shots rang out. He saw the pigeons fly away, and he was certain that the shooter was on top of the roof. So he sped there, and he ran inside.
2.. Roy Truly followed him, because Roy was in charge.
3. Baker demanded the elevator to the roof. Roy Truly tried to get the elevator, but it was not responding. So he showed Baker to the stairs. They both ran up the stairs. Allegedly they met Lee Harvey Oswald on their way upstairs. Baker estimates meeting Oswald less than 2 minutes after the JFK Assassination.
4. When they finally got to the roof, Roy Truly argued with Officer Baker, insisting that the shots came from the Grassy Knoll. "No!" insisted Baker -- they came from the roof, so be careful, because the shooter is probably here, and has a rifle!
5. They searched the roof thoroughly. They searched all around the perimeter. Roy Truly pointed down to the west side of the TSBD, and said, "Look at all those people gathered near the Grassy Knoll! They know what happened!" "No!" insisted Baker! Keep looking here, and be careful!
6. On the east side of the TSBD was a fire escape. Roy Truly said he worried that the shooter might have rushed down the fire escape. (Perhaps the shooter left his rifle).
7. They searched the tool shed on top of the roof. Finally Baker was convinced that the shooter had escaped -- they were too slow. He gave up.
8. As they headed back down the stairs, they met DPD Chief Lumpkin coming up the stairs. This should give a timeline of their search on the roof.
9. By this time, then, Roy Truly says that the TSBD was "full" of DPD cops. Cops everywhere, and each one was shouting orders to civilians. So, it was probably 12:45 by now, or thereabouts.
10. Some of those DPD officers were rounding up Negroes who worked at the TSBD. They were all suspects, as far as they were concerned -- probably Communists.
11. When Roy Truly saw that, he got involved personally, because these were all his book pickers -- they all worked for him.
12. The DPD cops ordered Roy Truly to account for all his men. That was when Roy noticed that two of his men were missing.
13. However -- although two were missing, one was accounted for -- all the workers knew where he was, and could vouch for that. However, NOBODY COULD VOUCH FOR LEE HARVEY OSWALD.
14. This was partly because the workers did not know Lee very well, and did not know where Lee went for lunch, when he happened to leave the building for lunch.
15. So, that was when Roy Truly told the DPD cops -- and Chief Lumpkin -- that all were accounted for except Lee Harvey Oswald.
16. That was when Chief Lumpkin said they should report that to Captain Fritz, once Roy Truly got Oswald's contact information.
17. So, Roy called TSBD records and got Lee's contact info, and wrote it down, and he and Lumpkin went upstairs and Roy gave it to Captain Fritz.
So, as far as I can see, Jason, all of this was ordinary and not suspicious. Roy Truly was not a conspirator, as far as I can see today.
Thanks for all your analysis.
All best,
--Paul -
15 hours ago, Jason Ward said:
Ok, Paul,
...these well known photos by Jim Murray and William Allen.
Dallas County Sheriff's Deputy Buddy Walthers has the black hat and a cigarette in his mouth - standing in the grassy area between Elm and Main street.
IIRC, Walthers admits to being there, but doesn't say much about the activity and people shown in these photos, although this activity is I presume what Liebeler is asking about when Walthers denies picking up a bullet.
note time on Hertz sign
Jason,
Good description of these photos. I think you are 100% right. These photos lead to Liebeler's questions. They don't go far in Walthers' WC testimony. Also, the time of the Hertz sign is crucial to our timeline. I read it as 12:40 pm.
HOWEVER -- please let me add one more name to my Dallas Deputies list. The WC testimony of Deputy Roger Craig is a monkey wrench thrown into the mix. Please add him to your able analyses of Dallas Deputy WC testimony.
Also -- may I please ask.
After you have gone through the Dallas Deputies -- there are not very many -- please move on to the Dallas Police -- there are several. To make this easier, and to stay focused on the material of the Dallas Deputies -- I ask that you first isolate only those Dallas Police who were present at Dealey Plaza.
Here is my Dallas Police List. There were 43 at the Dealey Plaza Scene.
DPD HQ and Patrolmen (9):
Jesse Curry (Chief), J. Herbert Sawyer (Inspector), Don Ables (jail clerk), Earle Brown, Richard Clark (Vice), J.W. Foster, Gerald Henslee (radio dispatcher), W.E. Perry (Vice), J.C. White.
DPD Homicide Detectives (15):
Will Fritz (Captain), T.L. Baker (Lieutenant), John Adamcik, Elmer Boyd, C.W. Brown, Bob Carroll, C.N. Dhority, Marvin Johnson, James Leavelle, Henry Moore, Walter Potts, Guy Rose, Richard Sims, Richard Stovall, F.M. Turner.
DPD Traffic and Accident – Motorcycle (8):
Perdue Lawrence (Captain), Marrion Baker, E.D. Brewer, Bobby Hargis, Clyde Haygood, Thomas Hutson, Billy Martin, Joe Murphy.
DPD Traffic and Accident – Foot Patrol (6):
D.V. Harkness (Sergeant), Welcome Barnett, Ray Hawkins, Edgar Smith, Joe Smith, C.T. Walker.
DPD ID Detectives (3):
J.C. Day (Lieutenant), Robert Studebaker, J.B. Hicks.
DPD Personnel Department (2):
W.R. Westbrook (Captain), Gerald Hill (Sergeant)
This list of 43 names is still nearly half of your list of 91 names, and so it still remains too large of a list. I propose to whittle it down to those who went inside or to the doors of the TSBD building before the rifle was found at 1:15pm CST.
In my quick review, that limits it to those marked in purple above. Here's my new list of 14 Dallas Police employees -- and I think this is a manageable number:
DPD HQ and Patrolmen (1):
J. Herbert Sawyer (Inspector)
DPD Homicide Detectives (6):
Will Fritz (Captain), Elmer Boyd, C.W. Brown, Bob Carroll, Marvin Johnson, Richard Sims.
DPD Traffic and Accident – Motorcycle (2):
Marrion Baker, Thomas Hutson.
DPD Traffic and Accident – Foot Patrol (3):
D.V. Harkness (Sergeant), Welcome Barnett, Joe Smith.
DPD Personnel Department (2):
W.R. Westbrook (Captain), Gerald Hill (Sergeant)
To summarize my request, Jason -- may we please place these 14, plus Deputy Roger Craig, highest in the queue at this time? If so, please place Deputy Craig next.
All best,
--Paul -
19 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:
Here's where we can see that the DPD realized they needed an explanation for how they managed to find Ruth Paine's address.
- The first version of this DPD memo states TSBD manager Truly proactively told DPD Captain Fritz that Oswald was a missing employee of the TSBD.
- The second version of the memo states that Truly also provided Fritz with Ruth Paine's address.
DPD memo version 1 - Truly provides Fritz with Oswald's name only:
DPD memo version 2 - Truly provides Fritz with Oswald's name and Ruth Paine's address:
Jason,
Although you might be onto something there -- I don't see it. I currently think this matters little. It's a matter of time compression on a minor point. The main point is that Roy Truly was the source of Lee Harvey Oswald's name and address. That the name came first, and then the address came second, is a minor point.
It is eminently plausible that Roy Truly was the source of both. His testimony confirms it -- but it goes like this. First, Roy Truly told DPD Chief Lumpkin that Oswald was missing, and Lumpkin asked for details to tell Captain Fritz up on the 6th floor. Then Roy Truly called the TSBD office of records in another building -- and got the address on Oswald's job application.
Then Roy Truly was escorted upstairs by Chief Lumpkin, and told Captain Fritz both bits of data at the same time.
I see no problem with this much. There may be other problems -- but not with the source of this data. Ruth Paine's address was certainly on LHO's job application. That's history.
All best,
--Paul -
24 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:
Who discovered the rifle in the sixth floor of the TSBD?
Dallas County Deputy Sheriff Boone says he did. An undated, unsigned rough draft report found in DPD archives says it was Constable Seymour Weitzman.
Jason,
Noticing the contradiction, the Warren Commission asked Seymour Weitzman about it. He said it this way -- I paraphrase -- 'I found it first, and I whispered it softly to Deputy Boone, who quickly shouted out to the whole floor that he found it, and so he got the credit. I would have received the credit if I had shouted it out, but I guess that's what I failed to do. History will say that Boone found it.'
I personally find Weitzman's explanation to be credible. It is very human; that's how some grownups behave. I don't think this is an issue.
The real issue, IMHO, is that the rifle was found a full 45 minutes after the JFK assassination. Even after eye-witnesses outside the TSBD building had told DPD Police within seconds of the JFK Assassination, that they saw men with guns on the upper floors of the TSBD building -- it still took the DPD a full 45 minutes to find the rifle.
So the question that arises inside my mind is this -- when was the rifle artificially planted there? Was it at the same time that Deputy Mooney artificially planted the shell casings there? Was it Deputy Mooney who artificially planted the rifle there?
All best,
--Paul -
On 3/17/2018 at 8:22 PM, Joe Bauer said:
In several interviews Michael Paine would describe Oswald.
And not in understanding and compassionate Christian ways. It was a cold and hard criticism of Oswald and everything about him.
Now, Michel Paine was supposedly a person with a very liberal/humanitarian social view and conscience.
And he was raised around a family that valued this perspective.
But what always bothered me about Michael Paine's was how often his stated personal feelings and assessments of Oswald were void of this sentiment and insultingly derogatory. They were way more harsh than you would expect from a so-called church going Christian.
I sensed an intellectual snobbery and arrogance with Paine in this regards.
Paine did not come across as a person expressing non-judgmental tolerance, understanding and compassion for others ( Oswald particularly ) as one would expect from someone in the Unitarian/Quaker faith.
Here are just a few of Paine's judgmental put-downs of Oswald.
Oswald was not really anything. He was stupid. He read some books and thought he knew what he was talking about.
Basically, Oswald an ignorant and "uneducated" fool. A loser.
Paine seemed to personally dislike Oswald this much from the first time he met him.
IMO in large part because he ( Oswald ) dared to act as if he was on Michael Paine's intellectual level ... even a little.
But let us look at Paine with the same level of criticism he dished on Oswald.
Paine was a spoiled person. He never saw a poor day in his life. It sounds as if he screwed up in some military service way. Then , drifting somewhat freely at a time when Oswald was having to support a family, his family connections eventually got him into a decent paying job where he made model helicopters?
Paine had a failed marriage himself. He made mistakes. He had flaws. Much of the good things in life were just handed to him. Did he even appreciate his very fortunate circumstances versus the average work and pay struggling person?
Yet, he never seemed to express any humility in this regards.He says Oswald "never did anything" about his stated Marxist beliefs.
Where as Paine joined groups, sang in choirs, and who knows what other endeavors to spread his humanitarian concern for others. Is this the great "doing something" actions Paine is referring to in knocking down Oswald in this regard?
People forget Oswald had just turned 24 when he was killed by Ruby. That is very young.
How much could Oswald have given of himself up to that age? Especially when he was consumed with just making enough money for his wife and babies to survive in the poverty side of town after town his entire time ( after Russia ) back here in the states?
If Oswald from a very young age had the nurturing, privileges and opportunities that Michael Paine was blessed with, I would not doubt that Oswald would have gone to college and done very well.
And that he wouldn't have had the bitter cynicism chip on his shoulder as an adult.
And If Micheal Paine had instead been born to the awful Marguerite Oswald with no father and lived Oswald's totally neglected childhood and teen years...I don't think Michael Paine could have made it through emotionally.
Oswald should at least be given credit for making it through that rough and neglected childhood life.
Joe,
IN DEFENSE OF MICHAEL PAINE (1928 - 2018)
We should say something about Michael Paine's Christian beliefs, since you hammer them so consistently above.
Michael Paine was not, like Ruth Paine, a Quaker. This was one of the many reasons for their separation. Michael was a Unitarian for most of his life. I don't know if you know anything about Unitarians, but I have many friends who are Unitarians, and every one is quite honest about the fact that they cannot believe in the Saving Cross of Jesus or the Resurrection or the Afterlife. What they actually believe is obscure, because the Unitarians publish no book of doctrines. They look like a Church, but without Christ as their official head.
Anyway -- Michael Paine was indeed a privileged person -- all his life. Lee Harvey Oswald was a poverty-stricken. The question I would raise here, on the eve of the death of Michael Paine, is why Michael had anything to do with Lee. I know the CIA-did-it CTers for at least a quarter century have preached that Michael Paine was CIA. Whatever!
Let's take this more slowly and carefully.
After Buddy Walthers told the Dallas newspapers that he found "six or seven metal filing cabinets full of the names of Castro supporters" in Ruth Paine's garage, it became clear that somebody was trying to set up Ruth Paine (and Michael Paine) as COMMUNISTS in support of the FPCC and Lee Harvey Oswald, who was allegedly an officer of the FPCC in New Orleans.
Just as the Dallas Police put Buell Wesley Frazier under a spotlight for "transporting the murder weapon" that killed JFK (and would have sent Wesley to the electric chair if he didn't come up with a good defense), the Dallas Police were hot to convict Ruth and Michael Paine as well.
This explains the forgery added to the Paine's tapped telephone call of 11/22/1963. The Radical Right was trying to entrap the Paines'
Through Probe Magazine of the 1990's, the Clueless Left perpetuated the story of the Radical Right in their continued persecution of Ruth and Michael Paine. In fact, it continues down to this day in this very thread, with the old editor of Probe Magazine, right here.
Here is how I set up my defense of Michael Paine. He would have been sent to the electric chair unless he came up with a good defense. How could he be the friend of Lee Harvey Oswald, even having dinner with him, and letting him sleep over in his house on many weekends before the JFK Assassination -- without being a party to the JFK Assassination?
So, the first self-defense of Michael Paine was this: "Lee Harvey Oswald was no friend of mine!"
Here (in my paraphrase) is how Michael Paine elaborated on his self-defense. "Lee was stupid! He claimed to be a Marxist, but I know Marxism backwards and forwards because my biological father was an admitted Trotsky follower. I am no Marxist, but when I visited my father during summers in Los Angeles, I met dozens of committed Marxists, and heard them making speeches and debating, and I know the literature very well. I can say with certainty that Lee Harvey Oswald was a young ignoramus, showing off that he read a few books by Marx. A genuine Marxist would have joined a Party and worked hard for that Party."
All of that self-defense, it turns out, is also historically factual. In fact, Michael Paine truly did dislike Lee Harvey Oswald from the first moment that he met him. Well, then, we reasonably ask -- why did Michael Paine allow Lee Harvey Oswald to spend the night in his house in Irving, Texas on weekends, while his wife, Ruth Paine, and his two small children, Lynn and Christopher, were in that house?
It's a good question. It deserves a good answer. So, let's review the Warren Commission testimony very slowly, so that it finally makes some sense. Here is my best recollection of the events:
1. Michael was separated from Ruth Paine at the time. It was not hostile -- it was amicable, and Ruth Paine was a strong-willed woman (very common in Texas) and also highly educated woman (very rare in Texas).
2. Ruth had promised God that she would learn to speak Russian, so that she could help bring peace between the USA and the USSR, within programs of the Quaker Church. Michael Paine had nothing to do with this. He just wanted to be an engineer, support his children, buy a few houses and a few cars, and call it a good life.
3. Ruth Paine tried to find people in Fort Worth and Dallas to help her learn to speak Russian.
3.1. Ruth could read and write Russian -- but that is a far cry from having a fast conversation with a native speaker. (Many Americans who have studied Spanish in high school know this fact very well.)
3.2. Ruth asked Professor Mamantov if he would teach her. He turned her down, because her Russian skills were too poor.
3.3. Mamantov instead put Ruth in contact with his aged mother-in-law, Dorothy Gravitis. But Dorothy was a poor teacher. Ruth was frustrated.
4. On February 22, 1963, Ruth and Michael were invited to a party by a common friend, Everett Glover.
4.1. Everett was an engineer who knew the Paines for many years. He and Michael sang in the Unitarian Choir together.
4.2. Everett did not speak Russian, but he knew many engineers in Dallas, and many were Russian Expatriates. One was George De Mohrenschildt (DM).
5. At the party on February 22, 1963, Everett invited many engineer friends, because George DM was going to entertain everybody by bringing Lee and Marina Oswald to the party.
5.1. Everybody in Fort Worth and Dallas had read about Lee and Marina Oswald in the newspapers. Lee was going to answer all their questions in English (because they all spoke mainly English).
6. Marina Oswald came to this party with their baby June, and she was the only one at the party who spoke no English.
7. Michael Paine had a cold, or otherwise begged off from that party. Instead, Ruth Paine came to party alone.
8. Ruth Paine was bored by Lee Harvey Oswald.
9. But when Marina and Jeanne retreated to a bedroom with baby June, because the baby was cranky, Ruth Paine tried to join them.
10. There was no way that Ruth Paine could join in their rapid Russian conversation. But she tried her best to interject a word here or there.
11. To her great pleasure, Marina Oswald was very kind and gentle, and included Ruth in their conversation, speaking slower, and correcting Ruth's grammar. RUTH LOVED THIS.
12. Ruth Paine then gave Marina her phone number and asked Marina for her phone number. "We don't have a phone," Marina replied.
13. So, they exchanged postal addresses, and said good night.
14. (An important point to make here -- hotly disputed by CIA-did-it CTers -- is that Ruth Paine insists that she never saw George or Jeanne DM before in her life, and never saw them or heard from them again in 1963. The same goes for Michael Paine.)
14.1. (Another point: Ruth Paine was not part of the Russian Community in Fort Worth and Dallas. She didn't speak Russian well enough for one thing; also, she did not attend the Russian Orthodox Church as they all did -- even the unbelievers.)
15. After that night, Ruth Paine and Marina Oswald sent many letters to each other -- for the rest of 1963 until the JFK Assassination.
15.1. The Warren Commission has copies of them all, as far as possible.
16. They made good friends, and Marina Oswald confided in Ruth Paine that she was pregnant. She also told Ruth that Lee was threatening to send her back to the USSR alone -- without him. She was miserable about it.
17. Ruth believed Marina -- she believed Lee planned to abandon his family. She decided that this was an important moral challenge for her. HOW COULD SHE HELP MARINA OSWALD?
18. Ruth Paine would drive herself and her children from Irving to Dallas to visit Marina Oswald on several occasions. They would take their babies on walks in the park. That was their main activity. Their main conversation was about babies and child care. Also marital problems.
19. As the weeks went forward, Ruth Paine would also drive to Dallas and pick up Marina and baby June, and drive them to Irving, and go for walks there -- and wash clothes -- and then drive everybody back to Dallas, and then drive her children home.
19.1. That was a long day, but Ruth loved the company, the Russian conversation, and the friendship. Marina was always a very intelligent and kind person.
20. In late March, 1963, Ruth Paine asked Michael Paine if he could invite Marina and Lee Oswald over for dinner.
20.1. Michael Paine then realized that their friendship was becoming long-term, and so he said he would like to attend that dinner, so that he could also see what Marina and Lee Oswald were like.
21. On April 2, 1963, Michael Paine drove to Dallas, to the Neely Street address, to pick up Lee and Marina Oswald.
21. I wrote above that sequence: briefly; Marina wasn't ready and Lee "entertained" Michael Paine by telling him all about his Marxism.
22. Also, Lee showed Michael Paine his "Backyard Photograph." Michael was unimpressed -- in fact, turned off, by this silly display of weapons.
23. Michael Paine did see that Marina Oswald had some class -- some education -- some social manners -- and he could see why Ruth liked Marina.
24. Disappointed that Lee Harvey Oswald was such a "loser," he went through with the dinner, and put on the best face he could for Ruth and Marina.
25. At the dinner, Lee Harvey Oswald talked and talked with bored Michael about his "Marxism", while Marina and Ruth happily talked about children and dinner and then washed the dishes together and cleaned the kitchen.
26. That was the night. It was a dreadful bore, for Michael Paine.
27. That was the last that Michael Paine saw or heard of Lee Harvey Oswald until October, 1963.
28. On April 24, Ruth drove herself and her children to visit Marina and baby June, to have a walk in the park.
29. Instead, she was surprised to see Lee Harvey Oswald -- bags packed -- asking for a ride to the bus station -- he could not afford a taxi.
30. So, she said OK. On the way, Lee explained his situation. He had lost his job, and he was going to New Orleans to stay with his family there, and seek work there.
31. But he didn't want Marina to come with him. He wanted Marina to stay in Dallas and wait for a letter from him. No matter how long this might take. Then, Marina and June would take the bus to New Orleans. He would give her a bus ticket.
31.1. The rent was paid for the next week. Lee said it should not take long.
32. Ruth immediately thought that Lee Harvey Oswald was going to abandon his family. But she did not want to pry or to exceed her social boundaries.
33. They arrived at the Greyhound bus station, and Lee Harvey Oswald bought two tickets to New Orleans. One for himself, and one for Marina.
33.1. The bus station took Lee's luggage, and told him to wait for the bus which would leave for New Orleans in the morning.
34. Instead, Ruth made a suggestion. Why not let Marina move to Ruth's place? That way, Lee could take his time, and then when Lee was ready, he could use the telephone instead of a letter.
34.1. Further, Ruth offered, when Lee telephoned, Ruth Paine herself would drive Marina to New Orleans, and save the expense and hassle of Marina traveling by bus with a baby, not knowing any English.
35. Lee thought that was a great idea. He quickly took Marina's bus ticket back to the Greyhound cashier and cashed it in.
36. Then, they all drove back to the Neely street apartment in Dallas, where Lee Harvey Oswald personally loaded all of their meager belongings (mostly baby furniture) onto Ruth Paine's station wagon, and they said goodbye to Lee. He would take the public bus to the Greyhound station that night.
37. For the next two weeks -- Ruth Paine was in a kind of heaven. Her best friend and her baby were living with her, and she was speaking Russian conversation every single day with Marina Oswald, who spoke an aristocratic form of Russian. It was just great.
38. Then, in two weeks, on May 10, 1963, Lee called Ruth Paine's phone and told Marina -- I have a job and we have an apartment! Marina was delighted -- "Papa loves us!" she cooed to baby June!
39. True to her word, she loaded up her station wagon with Marina's belongings, and she drove her two children with Marina and baby June to New Orleans.
40. For the next night, Ruth and her babies slept on the floor of the Oswald's roach infested apartment -- listening to Marina and Lee scream at each other almost the whole night.
41. That was the last that Ruth Paine would see of the Oswalds until September, 1963.
42. That summer, Ruth Paine took her usual two month vacation, and drove her children to the East Coast, to visit her mother, her siblings and relatives and childhood and college friends.
42.1. Although they all wanted to talk about the separation of Michael and Ruth, all Ruth wanted to talk about was Marina Oswald.
43. Marina and Ruth continued writing letters to each other. Marina complained to Ruth that Lee was forcing her to write letters to the USSR, asking to go back. But she insisted: "Ruth -- I really don't want to go back! Help me!"
43.1 Ruth was beside herself with emotion on this topic. All she could talk about to her family and friends was helping Marina Oswald.
44. Then, in mid-September, 1963, Marina Oswald sends an S.O.S. to Ruth Paine. Lee has been out of work for months. They have no money. Marina is now EIGHT MONTHS PREGNANT. They have no health insurance. She has not seen a doctor about her pregnancy.
45. Ruth springs into action. She piles her kids into her station wagon and heads to New Orleans.
46. Once there, she very kindly asks Lee Harvey Oswald for permission to take Marina and June back to Irving, Texas, to register Marina at Parkland Hospital, so that she could have baby June in some safety. Marina, June and the new baby can live with her, Ruth said, through January 1964, when Ruth's mother would come to stay to help with Ruth's children.
47. Lee jumped at the opportunity. For the first time ever, Lee Harvey Oswald began to behave like a gentleman to Ruth, helping out here, there and everywhere. He loaded up Ruth Paine's station wagon single-handedly (again) and on September 23, 1963, Lee sent Marina and June off to Irving.
48. Lee told Ruth that he is going to Houston to seek work. Marina Oswald knew that was a lie -- but she didn't say anything.
48.1. Lee had previously told Marina that he was going to Mexico City -- but to keep that a deep secret. Marina agreed.
49. For the next 11 days, Ruth Paine is again in a kind of heaven. She has her dear friend, Marina Oswald and baby June, living with her again.
49.1 Baby June is now calling Ruth, "auntie Ruth." Ruth loves that.
49.2. Ruth is very busy, helping Marina register for free natal services at Parkland Hospital. (Marina and Lee didn't want to be indebted further.)
49.3. Ruth gave blood to Parkland Hospital in partial exchange for these free natal services.
50. On October 4, 1963, Lee Harvey Oswald came waltzing back into Ruth Paine's life.
51. He knew better than to ask to live with Ruth -- it was a small house -- and Ruth didn't want and extra person there -- especially this ne'er do well who couldn't even hold down an easy job to support his own children.
52. But Lee did ask if he could at least come over on weekends, to be with his children. He promises to help around the house.
53. Ruth, being the soft-hearted person she was, agreed to this arrangement.
54. Immediately, Lee Harvey Oswald began using Ruth Paine's address for all his identity paperwork -- all his job applications. He also began sending all his magazine subscriptions (and there were lots of them) to Ruth Paine's address.
55. When Ruth told her own mother about her life status (as she regularly did) her mother was alarmed that this ne'er do well was now in Ruth's house! With Ruth's own children! Did Ruth really know what she was doing?
56. Ruth wrote to her mother, to soothe her fears. Lee Harvey Oswald is now calm as a lamb, and appreciates as well as he can. He's poor, but he's trying.
56.1. Lee helps around the house very well. For one thing, Ruth had a sticking door, and Lee took it down and sanded it, so that it stopped sticking.
57. Ruth also kept Michael in this loop, of course, and Michael Paine visited the Irving Street address and his children three days a week. On weekends he would have dinner with his family -- and with the Oswalds there at his address.
58. He had agreed with Ruth -- Marina Oswald was a good person and she was worth all the bother. He resented that Lee Harvey Oswald was such a flake who could hardly hold down an easy job to support his own children -- but he was convinced that Lee was harmless.
58. For example, Michael Paine said, on weekends, Lee would watch baseball on TV. Lee loved watching TV. This caused Michael to think -- "Some Marxist! Instead of picketing somewhere for the working class, he enjoys his TV like any middle-class person!"
59. On October 20, 1963, Marina gave birth to Audrey Rachel Oswald.
60. From that day forward, Marina and Ruth were intensely busy with child care. Marina was delighted with Parkland Hospital, but also with the fact that Ruth Paine had a washing machine -- because newborns need so many diapers.
61. This was basically how Ruth Paine and Michael Paine lived their lives, from October 4, 1963, until the JFK Assassination on November 22nd.
62. The JFK Assassination came out of nowhere for the Paine's. They were taken by storm. On the day of the JFK Assassination, Michael Paine called Ruth from work to day, "Lee didn't do it -- we both know who did it."
63. Ruth Paine in December, 2015, told me what Michael Paine meant -- it was the group that published the WANTED FOR TREASON: JFK handbill, and the corresponding black-bordered ad in the DMN: "Welcome Mister Kennedy, to Dallas; <Why are you a Communist>?"
So, Joe, you ask what Michael Paine did that Lee Harvey Oswald didn't do? The answer, in my opinion, is very obvious -- Michael Paine held down a steady job and supported his wife and children. Also, Michael Paine supported his wife in her dream to help Marina Oswald.
You ask why Michael Paine didn't show more sympathy toward the hardships of Lee Harvey Oswald. In my opinion, no other person in the world (except Ruth Paine) ever showed Lee Harvey Oswald more sympathy for his hardships than Michael Paine!
Sincerely,
--Paul Trejo, MA -
1 hour ago, Rob Couteau said:
Jim,
Ruth and Michael Paine always struck me as two of the most odious figures related to the assassination. I remember reading somewhere that the call identifying Oswald as the so-called murderer came from a telephone located in corporation where Michael was employed at the time. Both Paines were well-protected by the powers that be.
Rob,
You got the content of that phone call all wrong. I spoke personally to Ruth Paine about this (Dec. 2015) and she told me the full context. Since this is the eve of the death of Michael Paine, it's right to set the record straight on this thread.
Michael Paine had called Ruth Paine on 11/22/1963, and he said to her (I paraphrase), "Lee didn't do it -- we both know who did."
This phone call was tapped by somebody -- most likely FBI agent James Hosty, IMHO. Anyway, it came up in the FBI records with additional words added by some dishonest person, to read that Michael Paine said that Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK.
That's just a lie.
Ruth Paine admits the phone call -- and she demanded from the Warren Commission to tell her who tapped her phone that day, and why.
The Warren Commission never answered her -- and the US Government never answered her -- after 55 years. She still wants to know.
Anyway -- I asked her point blank -- "Ruth -- what did Michael mean when he said, 'We both know who did it?""
Ruth told me bluntly (I paraphrase), "He meant that collective group who had published the WANTED FOR TREASON: JFK handbill, which was obviously the same group that published that, WELCOME TO DALLAS: MR. KENNEDY...Why are you a Communist>, black bordered advertisement in the Dallas Morning News that morning. That's what Michael meant, and Michael knew that knew that's exactly what he meant."
Anyway, Rob. you are well-meaning, I feel. You just didn't know that you were repeating the official, Radical Right opinion about Michael Paine. What do you think now, after hearing this further evidence?
Regards,
--Paul Trejo -
On 3/18/2018 at 2:38 PM, Jason Ward said:
Police and Sheriff testimony in the Warren Commission Part 4: Dallas County Sheriff's Deputy Buddy Walthers
EDDY RAYMOND WALTHERS aka “Buddy Walthers” DCSD Deputy
Buddy Walthers: 35, Dallas County deputy sheriff for 9 years. On 22 November he was watching the motorcade with [Dallas County Sheriff’s wife] Mrs. Decker on Main Street at the sheriff’s office. Like officers Boone, Mooney, and Weitzman, Walthers immediately runs across Dealey Plaza and jumps the retaining wall after he hears 3 shots. He says there are “a lot of people just rummaging” around by the train tracks and parking lot...
Jason,
Thanks for all your hard work summarizing and analyzing the WC testimony of Dallas Deputy Buddy Walthers regarding his behavior on 11/22/1963 at Dealey Plaza. Here are my remarks:
1. Like Deputies Boone, Mooney, and Weitzman, Buddy Walthers is loitering around his place of employment at the corner of Main and Houston, namely, the Dallas County Jailhouse.
2. As soon as they hear shots fired at the Grassy Knoll, they immediately run across Dealey Plaza and in less than half a minute, they all jump the wall there.
3. He claims he sees no clues of any sniper there in that County parking lot behind the picket fence.
4. Walthers then says he went to large park island between Elm and Main to seek cartridge shells.
4.1. In an interesting sidebar, Deputy Roger Craig will testify to the WC that he saw Buddy pick up a shell there, and put it in his pocket.
4.2. It is riveting to me that Buddy would even suggest the possibility of "blanks or something” because of the story allegedly told by Senator John Tower to Sheriff Bill Decker, Gary Wean and Audie Murphy, about an "original" JFK plot to include "only blanks."
5. James Tague walks up to Buddy Walthers and shows him his wounded cheek. Buddy then walks to the triple underpass bridge.
6. Based on his analysis of the trajectory of the fragment that hit James Tague, Deputy Walthers concluded, "it was almost obvious that it...came from this building" referring to the TSBD.
6.1. Here are the words of Deputy Walthers to Deputy Alan Sweatt:
6.2. "I said, 'From the looks of it, it is probably going to be in this School Book Building,' and immediately then everybody started surrounding the School Book Building."
7. Next, in the confusion (to be generous) Walthers hears about an Oak Cliff shooting.
7.1. He decides on his own (without asking the Sheriff) to abandon Dealey Plaza and hurry to Oak Cliff, leading two other Deputies.
7.2. Walthers joins the manhunt in Oak Cliff for Tippit's murderer. A false alarm at a library, then a massive convergence at the Texas Theater.
8. From the balcony, Walthers watches Lee Harvey Oswald being arrested down below.
9. His job now done, Walthers reports to Sheriff Bill Decker back at the County Jailhouse for further orders. All in a day's work.
10. Sheriff Decker hands Deputy Walthers the address of Ruth Paine, where allegedly Oswald had been living with Mrs. Paine.
11. Along with Deputy Weatherford, they meet DPD officers Adamcik and Rose.
11.1. Allegedly, Walthers says that Ruth Paine exclaims, “Come on in, we’ve been expecting you.”
11.2. This is a bizarre thing to claim -- Ruth Paine denied saying these words.
12. Buddy Walthers gives an alternative account of discovering the blanket roll for Oswald's rifle.
12.1. Marina Oswald gives the first account -- she told the Dallas Police where to look. It was a Dallas policeman -- not Buddy Walthers, who picked up the blanket.
12.2. That Dallas policeman will give WC testimony that Marina's account is correct.
12.3. Why does Buddy Walthers seek to make himself the hero of the JFK story? It's interesting to me.
13. Then Buddy Walthers tells one of the singular fabrications of all WC testimony. He claims that he found "6 or 7 metal filing cabinets full of the names of Castro supporters" in Ruth Paine's garage, and that he placed these in the trunk of his car.
13.1. Actually, nobody else claims to have seen the alleged "filing cabinents." They were never photographed -- they were never seen by the DPD, the FBI, the Secret Service or *anybody*.
13.2. These alleged "filing cabinets" were never itemized in any official list of property retrieved from Ruth Paine's posessions.
13.3. Why would Buddy Walthers make a false claim that is so easily disproved by all other Washington DC and Dallas authorities? Yet the urban myth persists down to this very day.
14. Buddy Walther's claim that Marina Oswald told him anything is disproved by the fact that Marina Oswald could not speak English, and Buddy Walthers could not speak Russian.
14.1. Even allowing the implication that Ruth Paine interpreted between Marina and Buddy, even then, Buddy's story contradicts the story of Dallas Postal Inspector Harry Holmes.
14.2. Harry Holmes claims that it was he himself, and nobody else, who obtained the Oak Cliff rooming house address of Lee Harvey Oswald, from Oswald's November 1st PO Box application, and he called it into the Lawmen.
15. Michael Paine never, ever believed or claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald was a "committed Communist," but always maintained -- to everybody including the WC attorneys -- that Oswald was a "Phony Communist."
15.1. Again, Buddy Walthers seems to act "entitled" to make his opinion into fact, no matter what anybody else says. He is the "leader" in his own mind.
16. Buddy Walthers then claims that it was he himself who brought "everyone" at Ruth Paine's house to Captain Fritz' office. Again, he is the "leader" in his own mind.
17. Regarding finding a spent bullet -- Walthers denies it -- but as we will later see, Deputy Roger Craig affirms it.
18. Buddy Walthers claims to know that the “last shot” nicked Tague. Again -- Buddy Walthers seems to claim to know "everything." But what is the source for his "authority" in the JFK murder?
19. Could it possibly be that Walthers really *was* an authority in the case, but on more *secret* details?
19.1. If so, then Walthers is letting his "slip" show.
20. Walthers ends his WC testimony by apologizing for being “a little evasive.”
20.1. Again, Walthers is letting his "slip" show.
21. As to your CONCERNS, Jason:
21.1. Walthers is in multiple crucial places on 11/22/1963:
21.1.1. Behind the Grassy Knoll
21.1.2. At the triple underpass curb with James Tague,
21.1.3. Telling Deputy Sweatt that the shots came from the TSBD -- which started cops going there.
21.1.4. Among the first seeking Lee Harvey Oswald in Oak Cliff
21.1.5. In the Texas Theater, observing Oswald being arrested
21.1.6. At Ruth Paine's garage.21.2. The library false alarm is unimportant, IMHO.
21.3. Dealey Plaza is virtually *owned* by Dallas Deputies.
21.3.1. They worked daily at Main and Houston.
21.3.2. They parked daily behind the Grassy Knoll.21.4. Sheriff Decker got the address of Ruth Paine from TSBD supervisor Roy Truly, because that is the address that LHO gave to the TSBD on his job application.
21.5. There is no way that Marina volunteered anything to Buddy Walthers -- he didn't speak Russian.
21.5.1. Even if Ruth Paine was the one who gave Walthers a phone number -- one must ask Harry Holmes why he was so detailed in explaining how he himself discovered that address.21.6. We cannot get confirmation from Bill Decker that he gave Buddy Walthers the address for Oswald in Oak Cliff, because Bill Decker chooses to speak almost entirely about Jack Ruby's case.
21.7. The Deputies evidently coordinated their stories -- or they coordinated their run to the Grassy Knoll. I don't know which.
21.8. How long can one search the Grassy Knoll when all that scores of people find there are Dallas Police Officers?
21.8.1. Then it's a matter of searching all the cars. But these are mostly Dallas Deputy cars.
21.8.2. Anyway, dozens of Dallas Police are already searching these cars -- finding nothing.
21.8.3. How long can you do this search? 3 minutes? 5 minutes?
21.8.4. But Buddy is a Leader, and he leaves the "drudgery" work to subordinates. He moves on.21.9. The fact that Buddy Walther's even uses the word "blanks" suggests to me the story allegedly told by Senator John Tower about a "false flag" plan on JFK.
21.10. Walther's claim to be the first to point out the TSBD -- while everybody else is just wandering around aimlessly -- is an important factor in the collective Dallas Deputy story.
21.10.1. Let's keep our finger here, and return to it shortly.
21.11. For Buddy Walthers to claim discovery of the Oswald rifle blanket is sheer mendacity and arrogance. It contradicts all other accounts.
21.11.1. Let's also keep our finger here, and return to it shortly. I think it is related to his fabrication about "six or seven metal filing cabinets" in Ruth Paine's garage.
21.12. I'm very encouraged that you see the WC testimony of Buddy Walthers very closely to the way that I see it. In my past 6 years on this Forum, this is a first in my experience.
All best,
--Paul -
11 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:On 3/12/2018 at 1:48 PM, Paul Trejo said:
Lee was denied entry by the USSR. Then he slashed his wrists.
So tell me, Mr. Trejo. Was Oswald on USSR soil, or was he not, when he attempted suicide?
If he was on USSR soil, how is that possible if he was denied entry to the USSR?
I know he was denied citizenship. But he was NOT "denied entry" into the USSR. I can go to Mexico on tourist permit. But if they deny me Mexican citizenship, while I am in Mexico, how is that denying me ENTRY to Mexico? Many non-citizens enter the US every day. Once they are here, they have ENTERED the US. And they do NOT have to become citizens to merely ENTER the country.
So Oswald was NEVER denied entry to the USSR.
Mr. Knight,
Even though Lee Harvey Oswald was on USSR soil at the time his case was being deliberated, he could have been "denied" at any moment.
You are being way, way too literal about it, sir. You are trying for a cheap shot, and it is unavailing. Get a better argument.
Sincerely,
--Paul Trejo -
10 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:
Mr. Trejo,
Oswald's was NOT "on the border" when he attempted suicide. He was in MOSCOW, and had been there for WEEKS. It occurred AFTER his fake renunciation of his US citizenship at the Moscow embassy, and I'm pretty sure you know that.
If you DON'T know that, you need to do more research. If you DO know that, but insist on posting something you KNOW to be untrue... well, you know what that would make you.
And it's the opposite of a truth-teller.
Mr. Knight,
Again, you show a limited range of metaphor. "On the border." is a metaphor meaning that Oswald was "half-inside" and "half-outside," because the USSR authorities were debating at what hour to toss Lee Harvey Oswald out on his butt.
You are trying your hardest to make me into a L-I-A-R, Mr. Knight, but you are evidently "straining at gnats and swallowing the camel."
Sincerely,
--Paul Trejo -
2 hours ago, Mark Knight said:
Mr. Trejo, I'M going to call out a BLATANT falsehood in your post above.
Oswald's suicide attempt occurred AFTER he entered the USSR...not BEFORE. It had NOTHING to do with getting him INTO the USSR, and everything to do with REMAINING there once he got in.
You have a habit of playing fast and loose with the truth. I WILL NOT LET THAT PASS.
And I quoted your entire post so you cannot HONESTLY accuse me of twisting your words.
Mr. Knight,
No need to be so accusing. If I make a genuine mistake, I'm always willing to admit it.
In this case, however, I think you're also splitting hairs.
Although you are CORRECT in stating that Oswald's attempted suicide occurred AFTER he entered the USSR, and not BEFORE -- you also ADMIT that Oswald's attempted suicide had "everything to do with REMAINING" inside the USSR once he "got in."
You are accusing me of a "BLATANT falsehood" when actually I could argue that it is a matter of PERSPECTIVE.
Although Lee Harvey Oswald was on the other side of the border when he "attempted suicide" (i.e. sliced his wrists in a shallow manner), the fact remains that the USSR authorities were debating whether to ship him back on any given hour of the day.
So, you're really overstating your case by accusing me of "BLATANT" falsehood.
Oswald was still not really "in" the USSR -- technically -- he was on the border and his status was "undecided."
Sincerely,
--Paul Trejo -
On 3/16/2018 at 12:51 PM, Lawrence Schnapf said:
Paul- you have it backwards in many ways
...Marina is the only person who could tie LHO to possessing the rifle, to the note that was allegedly written before the Walker shooting, to what he told her when he came back, to the presence of the rifle in the blanket. How do you know she was not lying about these facts?
The WC called her four times because of its frustration with her evolving testimony. this is documented in Shennon's book and staff memos of Willens. As Casey Stengel used to say "You can look it up"
Lawrence,
I've read all of Marina's WC testimony, which is a heck of a lot of reading, since she was asked thousands of questions, and it runs into hundreds of pages.
But it's worth it. Yes, she was called back several times -- but Ruth Paine was also called back several times -- and that meant nothing at all. In my opinion (which many on this Form will challenge) Ruth Paine is one of the most honest people one could ever meet. She remains true to her Quaker religion to this very day. She took Marina Oswald into her home when Marina was eight months pregnant, and had no health insurance or money, and Lee Oswald had no job.
Yet Ruth Paine had to endure more than FIVE THOUSAND QUESTIONS from the Warren Commission. That's not an exaggeration, that's more questions than anybody else. Regarding Lee Harvey Oswald (and excluding Jack Ruby testimony) Marina Oswald was second only to Ruth in the number of questions asked.
And yet, these two women knew less about the JFK Assassination than anybody else in the world. They knew about Lee Harvey Oswald, but he kept tons of secrets from them. Well, for one thing, they were "only women" and this was 1963 in Texas -- and these women had babies to take care of, which was their "natural business."
So, Lee Harvey Oswald told Marina Oswald nothing -- or worse than nothing -- he told her outright lies on a continual basis.
In any case -- Marina Oswald told the TRUTH to the WC after she took the Oath. If that TRUTH was sometimes contradicted by others (for example, George De Mohrenschildt) it was not only Marina Oswald who was called back by the WC attorneys (but George De Mohrenschildt would also be called back).
The WC got their answers.
There is another reason that Marina was called back -- she didn't speak English well enough. In fact, although she volunteered to answer herself, the WC decided that her English was too broken. So they chose to speak to Marina through a Russian expert, and to get Marina's answers only from this Russian expert.
So, in addition to her language issues, we also have to include the third party of this Russian expert, and his accent, and his lack of knowledge of American colloquialisms.
For just one example: the Russian word for "bury" also means "hide." So, in Russian, Marina would say that Lee Harvey Oswald "hid" his rifle. This came out in the WC record from the Russian expert that Lee Harvey Oswald "buried" his rifle. See the problems? This is the tip of the iceberg.
No wonder Marina had to be called back so many times.
Yet I will stand by this -- Ruth Paine and Marina Oswald told the 100% truth to the Warren Commission. If somebody wishes to challenge my claim -- I don't want anymore abstract theories. Just show me the exact WC testimony that you believe is a LIE, and I will respond to that. I've read all of Marina's WC material.
Regards,
--Paul Trejo -
Jason,
Here's my feedback on all your hard work on the WC testimony of Dallas Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney:
1. Deputy Mooney, with many Dallas Deputies on 11/22/1963, was standing outside their building door on the corner of Main and Houston, overlooking Dealey Plaza.
2. There are two reasons that Deputies give for running toward the railroad tracks:
2.1. That they heard shots from there;
2.2. That Sheriff Bill Decker ordered them all to go there, because he was afraid that the Dallas Police would take too long to get there.
2.3. We have the radio transmission record from Sheriff Bill Decker that confirms this order.
3. Many Dallas Deputies ran as fast as they could to the picket fence of Dealey Plaza.
3.1. Since that was only about a half-block away from their place of employment, many of them ran that distance in perhaps 30 seconds or less.
3.2. Thus, many of them claim that they were there "within seconds." I believe them.
4. I agree with your emphasis, Jason, that the only thing they saw when they got there (aside from obvious spectators) were Dallas policemen.
4.1. That is important, in my humble opinion, because these same Dallas policemen shot JFK. The Deputies knew this, but they also knew that nobody in Dallas (or the USA) would doubt a policeman (or wonder why a policeman had a weapon).
4.2. Again, why did they run to the TSBD? Did Bill Decker give that order? He was not in Dealey Plaza at that time, and there is no radio transmission record to confirm this, IIRC.
4.3. Deputy Buddy Walthers claims it was his order. (He was not alone in this boast, however.)
5. When we finally piece together all of the WC testimony from all of the Sheriff Deputies, we will find a fairly consistent story -- with minor deviations (mostly from Deputy Roger Craig).
6. The question of arriving at the 6th floor is interesting.
6.1. Amos Euins and other Dealey Plaza witnesses told Dallas policemen as early as one minute after the JFK Assassination that they saw men with guns on the upper floors of the TSBD.
6.2. When did Dallas officers actually arrive on the 6th floor? Long after the eye-witnesses spoke up.
7. It is absolutely riveting that Deputy Luke Mooney had no clue WHY he went to the 6th floor. That is covering up a Big Secret, in my opinion.
7.1. The Big Secret is easy to guess -- namely -- that all the Deputy stories were coordinated in advance -- and in this case, Luke Mooney could SIMPLY NOT REMEMBER WHAT THE GROUP STORY WAS!
8. As for the phrase,"gone for the lights," Mooney is speaking of a walk back to the County Jail to get lots of flashlights.
8.1. Deputy Roger Craig claims he was also part of this walk -- but his participation will be denied by others. This is part of a crack in the Deputy's story.
9. In my humble opinion, Luke Mooney does not FIND shell casings, but he PLACES shell casings on the floor.
9.1. (Evidence for my claim comes from doubts expressed by Deputy Roger Craig. We will see that as we explore all of the WC evidence from all of the Dallas Sheriff Deputies.)
10. It is now 1pm, you said. One half-hour after the JFK Assassination.
10.1. Is Deputy Mooney realy standing guard as he claims? Or framing the crime scene?
11. Finally Captain Bill Fritz and Sherriff Bill Decker arrive together, and chat on the street below the TSBD.
12. Deputy Mooney claims that he discovered the crime scene and requested "crime lab officers."
12.1. We will see that he was not the only one to make that boast.
13. As for the chicken bones -- I see no reason to belabor them -- they belonged to the lunch of one of the workers at the TSBD, who would admit this in his WC testimony.
13.1. I see very little use in discussion of a Dr. Pepper, Coke or other soft drink.
13.2. There were so many workers in the TSBD 5th and 6th floors on Thursday and Friday, that sack lunches are irrelevant, IMHO.
14. As for your CONCERNS:
14.1. Mooney's story suggests that he selected the 6th floor by the luck of the draw, so to speak. Other officers were on other floors, so he went to the 6th floor.
14.1.1. What confuses me is how Deputy Mooney could be ALONE on the 6th floor long enough to allegedly FIND the shell casings. I doubt that part.
14.2. I don't care about the Dr. Pepper that other witnesses may have found. If it's important I'd like to know why.
14.2.1. Also, in common parlance, some people called *any* soda pop a "Coke."
14.2.2. Even if it was an orange drink, or a lemon-lime drink, to some people it was still a "Coke," which was synonymous with a "pop". So, I don't focus on these Southern colloquialisms.
14.2.3. I am not concerned with any soda can or lunch sack or its contents. It is irrelevant to me, UNLESS IT CAN BE USED TO SHOW THAT THE DEPUTIES ARE LYING IN SOME WAY.
14.3. I am not concerned with the identity of press photographers -- though perhaps I should be.
14.3.1. I presume that a flood of press photographers had simply followed a flood of policemen into the TSBD by 12:45 PM, having found nothing suspicious behind the picket fence of the Grassy Knoll.
14.3.2. What really worries me is Deputy Mooney's narrative that suggests he was ALONE on the 6th floor at the time that other Deputies were walkig to the County Jailhouse to get flashlights to explore the 7th floor. That sounds utterly impossible to me. There had to be others.
14.3.3. I don't know where their pictures are, however -- and I feel that somebody should know.
14.3.4. Yet if they were simply random pictures of a warehouse, with random pictures of boxes, then why would any newspaper editor even bother with them? They were probably trashed.
14.3.5. The Dallas Police had their own photographers, who had rules about quality of their photographs -- and they didn't care about newspaper photographs (unless people higher up in the chain of command cared about them).
14.4. IMHO, in those days, if a Dallas Policeman ordered a civilian to do something, that civilian was morally obliged to do it. Even to guard a door.
14.4.1. We will see later that other Dallas authorities disputed the status and security of the entrances and exits of the TSBD building. In any case, 12:45 was way too late to worry about the escape of a 12:30 sniper.
14.5. Again, I'm unconcerned with Bonnie Ray Williams' chicken lunch remains on the 6th floor.
14.6. I find Mooney's story acceptably consistent with Boone's, if only because Boone's story is so skinny -- so lacking in details.All best,
--Paul -
10 hours ago, Jason Ward said:
OK, Paul, I've posted my impressions of Sheriff's Deputy Eugene Boone's testimony to the WC above. What do you think?
- A procedural concern I have is the fact that he has a very short testimony and was allowed to give his narrative without anything like a challenge or cross examination. One of the great benefits to the conspirators of eliminating Oswald was that the adversarial system of criminal proceedings in our country was rendered moot. There was no attorney and no other interested party around to challenge witnesses; to make them pin down details; to point out ambiguities, and so forth. Normally, depositions are conducted with OPPOSING counsels present to prevent witnesses from just advertising an unchallenged comfortable version of events.
- What we have isn't much more than asking Boone to type up a story. When my chain of command asks me for a report, I don't emphasize my own mistakes, shortcomings, or flat out incompetence, do you? So, Boone told his story as we all would - in a way that makes us look good. He was not made to answer for anything that in retrospect seems questionable because this was an effort in just letting a witness speak unchallenged. As for the SUBSTANCE of his testimony:
- the overriding question I have is who was directing his actions and why he did what he did. He says he initially followed the crowd's assumption that there was firing from the grassy knoll, which caused him to surmount the retaining wall and do who-knows-what in the train track area. Next he is in the TSBD and 6th Floor but who knows why he went there and who told him to go there?
- The story around finding the gun, identifying the gun, and Captain Fritz is just very neat and undetailed. There's all kinds of holes here, but, way too late now to challenge him.
I'll look at some more sheriff department testimony today and post impressions. Thoughts on Boone's testimony?
Jason
Jason,
Thanks for your hard work summarizing all this WC data on Deputy Boone. Here are my opinions:
(1) The fact of Boone's short WC testimony, practically a narrative, like a story, is way too common in the WC volumes to be of much concern, IMHO.
(1.1) The WC did not conduct a Trial by any stretch. They only conducted a Hearing, which was guaranteed only by the Legal Oath.
(1.2) The WC did not take into consideration any amount of Southern hostility towards Northern Yankees in general, or toward Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren (author of the Brown Decision to racially integrate all US public schools) in particular.
(1.3) In my opinion, most residents of Dallas were sympathetic to the Confederate Flag and its conservative tendency, and opposed to the Supreme Court and its liberal tendency. The "Warren Commission" sounded noble to Yankees, but sounded like shxx to Southerners.
(1.4) There was never any WC cross-examination of any Dallas Law officers. The only thing that sounded like WC cross-examination was directed to Marina Oswald and to Ruth Paine -- the two people who knew the very least about the JFK Assassination. They had to endure thousands and thousands of WC questions -- literally.
(2.0) As for SUBSTANCE. The answer regarding why Boone did what he did will come when we examine all of the Dallas Sheriff Deputies. Especially Buddy Walthers.
(2.1) I think a case can be made that Buddy Walthers was the leader on the ground. He leads the leap over the picket fence. He claims that he was the one who first ordered people to pile into the TSBD building.
(2.2) The story about finding the gun is so neat and uniform by all the Deputies and Policemen on the 6th floor of the TSBD that one can make a case that they coordinated their statements before they took the WC stand.
All best,
--Paul -
Michael Paine was one of the final surviving witnesses of the behavior of Lee Harvey Oswald during the final weeks of Oswald's life.
Michael Paine knew very well what a loose cannon Lee Harvey Oswald presented to his family, especially to Ruth Paine.
Lee Harvey Oswald was -- in the words of George De Mohrenschildt --- "unstable."
The wealthy Michael Paine (his mother was closely connected to old money on the East Coast) was also very well educated, actually brilliant -- and was an engineer for Bell Helicopter for most of his career. He was also a capable singer in Church choir. He was a Unitarian.
More to the point, Michael Paine was somewhat of an expert on Marxism. His biological father was a dedicated Communist of the Leon Trotsky variety. His father had a very arge home in Los Angeles, and would hold enormous meetings at his home, with Communists from all over the world. Young Michael would soak it all in, noticing the sects and the in-fighting, and the points in common, and the points in dispute.
Young Michael Paine knew Marxism like the back of his hand. He decided it wasn't for him. He joined the Democratic Party.
One thing that Michael Paine knew in 1963 when he first met Lee, who loved to talk about Marxism (with people who knew what they were talking about) was that Lee Harvey Oswald never a genuine Marxist of any stripe. Lee Harvey Oswald was a big talker, and a big Fake. A genuine Marxist would always find like-minded people and join their organization, and start working in the streets for the kind of justice that their group demanded. There was no exception to that rule.
Lee Harvey Oswald liked to read and talk -- but that's all that he liked to do. He would never ACT. He would never DO anything or JOIN any group to get off his butt and DO something.
Michael Paine first met Lee Harvey Oswald at Lee's apartment on 214 West Neely Street in Dallas on April 2, 1963. Michael drove his car there from Irving, Texas, to pick the Oswald's up for dinner at Ruth Paine's home. (Michael and Ruth were separated. Michael lived in an apartment near his office, while Ruth lived with their two children in a small house in Irving.) Ruth had begun a personal friendship with Marina Oswald starting on February 22, 1963. They mostly talked about children. Marina had told Ruth her secret -- she was pregnant again.
When Michael went to pick them up, Marina was not yet ready with Baby June and her things. Instead of helping her, Lee would bark orders to her in an impatient manner. This was between talking non-stop to Michael Paine.
The most remarkable event that occurred on April 2, 1963, there at 214 West Neely Street, was that Lee Harvey Oswald proudly showed Michael Paine one of his "Backyard Photographs." In this photograph, Oswald was standing by the backyard stairs of the Neely apartment, holding his rifle and wearing his pistol, and holding two Marxist newspapers (from opposing Marxist organizations, though Lee evidently didn't know that).
We know that Lee showed Michael this photograph now, because Michael Paine told Dan Rather this fact in a historical, face-to-face interview in 1995.
Michael Paine looked at Lee's Backyard Photograph and was not impressed. It looked posed and phony. It fit the type of person who liked to talk and show off about Marxism, but never really joined a Marxist organization to DO ANYTHING. Pathetic, thought Michael.
I fervently hope that Michael Paine left a written memoir about the JFK Assassination. No doubt this was the biggest event in this engineer's life -- being so close to the reputed John Wilkes Booth of his generation. Michael Paine -- in my humble opinion -- knew more about the Walker shooting than any other living person. I hope he left a memoir. It could change US History.
Best regards,
--Paul Trejo -
Michael Paine was one of the final surviving witnesses of the behavior of Lee Harvey Oswald during the final weeks of Oswald's life.
Michael Paine knew very well what a loose cannon Lee Harvey Oswald presented to his family, especially to Ruth Paine.
Lee Harvey Oswald was -- in the words of George De Mohrenschildt --- "unstable."
The wealthy Michael Paine (his mother was closely connected to old money on the East Coast) was also very well educated, actually brilliant -- and was an engineer for Bell Helicopter for most of his career. He was also a capable singer in Church choir. He was a Unitarian.
More to the point, Michael Paine was somewhat of an expert on Marxism. His biological father was a dedicated Communist of the Leon Trotsky variety. His father had a very arge home in Los Angeles, and would hold enormous meetings at his home, with Communists from all over the world. Young Michael would soak it all in, noticing the sects and the in-fighting, and the points in common, and the points in dispute.
Young Michael Paine knew Marxism like the back of his hand. He decided it wasn't for him. He joined the Democratic Party.
One thing that Michael Paine knew in 1963 when he first met Lee, who loved to talk about Marxism (with people who knew what they were talking about) was that Lee Harvey Oswald never a genuine Marxist of any stripe. Lee Harvey Oswald was a big talker, and a big Fake. A genuine Marxist would always find like-minded people and join their organization, and start working in the streets for the kind of justice that their group demanded. There was no exception to that rule.
Lee Harvey Oswald liked to read and talk -- but that's all that he liked to do. He would never ACT. He would never DO anything or JOIN any group to get off his butt and DO something.
Michael Paine first met Lee Harvey Oswald at Lee's apartment on 214 West Neely Street in Dallas on April 2, 1963. Michael drove his car there from Irving, Texas, to pick the Oswald's up for dinner at Ruth Paine's home. (Michael and Ruth were separated. Michael lived in an apartment near his office, while Ruth lived with their two children in a small house in Irving.) Ruth had begun a personal friendship with Marina Oswald starting on February 22, 1963. They mostly talked about children. Marina had told Ruth her secret -- she was pregnant again.
When Michael went to pick them up, Marina was not yet ready with Baby June and her things. Instead of helping her, Lee would bark orders to her in an impatient manner. This was between talking non-stop to Michael Paine.
The most remarkable event that occurred on April 2, 1963, there at 214 West Neely Street, was that Lee Harvey Oswald proudly showed Michael Paine one of his "Backyard Photographs." In this photograph, Oswald was standing by the backyard stairs of the Neely apartment, holding his rifle and wearing his pistol, and holding two Marxist newspapers (from opposing Marxist organizations, though Lee evidently didn't know that).
We know that Lee showed Michael this photograph now, because Michael Paine told Dan Rather this fact in a historical, face-to-face interview in 1995.
Michael Paine looked at Lee's Backyard Photograph and was not impressed. It looked posed and phony. It fit the type of person who liked to talk and show off about Marxism, but never really joined a Marxist organization to DO ANYTHING. Pathetic, thought Michael.
I fervently hope that Michael Paine left a written memoir about the JFK Assassination. No doubt this was the biggest event in this engineer's life -- being so close to the reputed John Wilkes Booth of his generation. Michael Paine -- in my humble opinion -- knew more about the Walker shooting than any other living person. I hope he left a memoir. It could change US History.
Best regards,
--Paul Trejo -
58 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:
Really Paul? I'm insulting? Every time you say I am dogmatically attached to a CIA did it theory it s an insult. You accuse me of not understanding nuance. How about you?
Questions I've asked on this thread alone include asking for exploration of Souetre visiting New Orleans, Banister aiding an OAS operation, the affiliations of DPD with Army Intelligence and KKK. Where do you see CIA in my questions and comments?
Paul B,
I've been on this Forum for over 6 years, and in that time your posts to me have largely been insulting and disruptive. That's what I remember. Not that you're unintelligent -- but you have this anti-Trejo attitude which you bandy about like a flag. I have every right to set your Forum account to IGNORE. But I'll give you one more chance. If you continue to insult me or try to disrupt the orderly and academic intent of this thread, I will stop responding to you.
This thread is about General Walker and Lee Harvey Oswald. It presumes Jim Garrison's facts about New Orleans, without accepting Garrison's CT about CIA control -- which he never proved. Lee Oswald was working for Guy Banister in New Orleans. Lee didn't know the full story.
The relationship of Walker does, therefore, include actual evidence about Guy Banister, and his Radical Right politics, including his helping an OAS operation in its struggle against Cuba, as well as his cooperation with the KKK and even with George Lincoln Rockwell and the American Nazi Party.
Guy Banister was, like General Walker, a dedicated advocate for the racial segregation of US public schools. Period. He regarded all race-mixing as Communism. He was relentless.
It is also admitted by former FBI agent, William Turner (Power on the Right, 1971) that the Dallas Police Department in the 1960's was so friendly to the KKK that several members of the Dallas Police force were also KKK members.
That has all been documented -- and I have agreed with these facts as long as I have written on this Forum.
William Turner also said that the Dallas Police were regularly recruited from veterans of the US Army, the US Navy, the US Air Force, US Marines, and the Military Reserves. For this reason, they tended to be very close with the local Military organizations, and to have personal relationships with people in high places in the Military -- old friends --- who would still go hunting with each other, and engage in target practice. Also, many of these people, with their Western "rifle culture" -- would join groups like the "Minutemen".
General Walker was a former General in the US Army. For many of these advocates of the US Military, there was a subculture of extremist Anticommunism, and also of sympathy for General Walker and the way he was treated by the Kennedy Administration. Even though the majority of Americans (and even Dallas) may have thought that General Walker was a loony tune out on the fringes of politics -- there was always a minority who said that he was their Leader.
According to James Hosty, General Walker was the leader of the Dallas "Minutemen," and according to William Turner, some of these "Minutemen" were also Dallas policemen. Jeff Caufield makes a further connection. General Walker was a leader of his local John Birch Society which met on weekends at "Austin's BBQ" in Dallas. Officer JD Tippit was a regular figure on those weekends there at "Austin's BBQ".
Regards,
--Paul Trejo -
10 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:
This thread appears to be largely a private conversation between Jason and Paul T. You consistently ignore my posts and questions, especially Jason. Why?
Paul B.,
Your CIA-did-it bias is overbearing and you feel free to insult people. This thread attempts to be open-minded and academic. We are going to evaluate WC evidence of Dallas Police without preconceptions. Your overbearing attitude (due to your dogma) and your insulting are out of place on this thread.
Well -- you wanted an honest answer, didn't you?
Regards,
--Paul Trejo -
Here are just a few entertaining words about Dallas Sheriff Bill Decker, who was riding in the lead car along with DPD Chief Jesse Curry and Dallas Secret Service agent Forrest Sorrels at the time of the JFK Assassination.
Oddly, Bill Decker's WC testimony speaks almost entirely about Jack Ruby killing Oswald -- and not about the Dealey Plaza killing of JFK. So, his WC testimony isn't going to be very helpful in grasping the Dealey Plaza episode.
Still, it may be interesting to read about the man himself. Bill Decker was 65 at the time of the JFK parade. Already famous as the lawman who had chased Bonnie and Clyde, he was now facing retirement.
Bill Decker had his own CT -- as told in 1971 by Gareth (Gary) Wean , a Los Angeles cop, a detective. Gary wrote that in December, 1963, he got a call from his older pal, Bill Decker. Bill grew up in Texas with a now-famous Hollywood actor named Audie Murphy -- a WW2 war hero. Bill invite Gary and Audie to join him at a private dinner party in New Mexico with Texas Senator John Tower.
The Senator wanted to share with these trusted men a fascinating secret.
According to Gary, the eminent Senator Tower told the party that he knew who had killed JFK. E.Howard Hunt, he said, was the manager of Lee Harvey Oswald. Hunt had an idea of Oswald helping with a fake assassination attempt on JFK, to frame Fidel Castro.
Oswald’s visit to the Cuban Embassy in Mexico City was part of Hunt's plan of laying a trail to Cuba. The intent was to scare the American people into supporting an invasion of Cuba.
This plot was unknown to the White House, but allegedly known to the CIA, to the Pentagon, and to a few Senators like himself, said Senator Tower (according to Gary Wean). Since so many high-level people were involved, Oswald agreed to do it. The plan was that Oswald would fire his rifle into the air, and then go into hiding, and after Cuba was invaded and liberated, Oswald would come home to a hero’s welcome and a full-time job.
However -- some bad guys infiltrated Hunt's plan. They killed JFK. Then they tried to kill Oswald. Tippit got in the way and was killed by the JFK assassins, not Oswald. Soon however, Oswald himself was dead.
This was the CT that (according to Gary Wean) Dallas Sheriff Bill Decker believed until he died in 1970. After he died, Gary Wean believed it was safe to tell his story to the world.
Regards,
--Paul Trejo -
7 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:
Hi Paul,
Thanks for your reply .
Sure, we can look at the officers and deputies present Dealey Plaza first.
Like prosecutors and defendants in the trial , those who have adopted a CT want to present the strongest evidence first, while those who are against the CT want a totally different order to the evidence presented. The order and packaging of the evidence makes a big impact, so my natural approach is to choose some arbitrary or neutral order in looking at evidence. However, since your idea about looking at peace officers present in Dealey Plaza does not seem to favor or disfavor any particular CT, that's fine .
Jason
Thanks, Jason. I appreciate this.
--Paul
-
Jason,
Thanks for the overview of these Dallas police. If you take this same approach with all your 91 Dallas Law Enforcement employess however -- in alphabetical order -- I submit that your overview will not catch the correct nuances. You are likely focus on some irrelevant things, and to possibly skip over some crucial things.
I hope I am not being too harsh is my advice here. The alphabetical approach is not the best approach. While it does guarantee that nobody will be overlooked, there are other ways to do that -- and better ways.
One can take the same list of people and group them into categories before beginning. The first category that I would choose is this one: Of these 91 employees of Dallas Law Enforcement -- which ones were present at Dealey Plaza, and which ones were not?
Also, of those who were present at Dealey Plaza, which ones were present at the moment of the JFK shooting, and which came at other times?
Also -- of those present at Dealey Plaza -- which ones were on the 6th floor of the TSBD around the time that the Manlicher-Carcano rifle was found? When did they arrive? In what order? Under what circumstances?
You have already touched on this last question, Jason, yet you have only begun your alphabetic system, and it will take some time before you get around to Buddy Walthers, a central figure, whose last name starts with "W"..
Can we please group your 91 names first, before walking through their WC testimony? Otherwise we risk dragging on without rich fruit.
Here is a first clue -- it was the Sheriff Deputies who were the first on the scene at the Grassy Knoll, and the first on the scene in the TSBD, and they were the ones who found Oswald's alleged rifle. Buddy Walthers was in some ways their leader. Buddy Walthers also led the team to Ruth Paine's house.
Buddy Walthers also told the fabrication that Ruth Paine's garage had "six or seven filing cabinets full of the name of Castro supporters." He was clearly trying to implicate the Paine's as Communist supporters of Lee Harvey Oswald. This is significant, IMHO.
Here's my opening count. Of these 91 names, there were 58 Law Enforcement officers at Dealey Plaza. So, where were they all standing or sitting when the JFK Assassination occurred? What was their post?
Another question I have -- there were two Dallas Police working as foot patrol next to the TSBD building. Four eye-witnesses next to the TSBD building reported seeing rifles sticking out of high story windows, and men with guns walking around high story windows. Some told police. Yet those police on foot patrol around the TSBD testified to the WC that they themselves saw nothing suspicious in those windows.
It's those who were PRESENT at Dealey Plaza that should get first priority, IMHO. The alphabetic system is too slow, IMHO.
Best regards,
--Paul -
4 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:
So, Mr. Trejo is now claiming that the classroom photo of LEE Oswald's missing tooth was retouched by, count them...
- LEE Harvey Oswald
- Edward Voebel
- LIFE magazine editors
What a conspiracy! All done to create the illusion of a missing tooth or teeth??? This just gets better and better.
Good luck, Mr. Trejo. The last person I'm aware of allowed to directly examine large numbers of LHO "original" evidence at the National Archives was John Armstrong. John has said many times that there was little original documentation there; mostly b&w copies.
But the LIFE magazine published halftone prints do comprise evidence. The photo was apparently acquired from Voebel via WDSU Television in New Orleans, and published by LIFE just a few months after the assassination, untouched by the FBI or the Warren Commission.
Jim,
Your writing is overdramatic. I never said that LHO, Voebel and LIFE were plotting a conspiracy. I said LHO and Voebel were two kids making a prank. (On this I agree fully with Michael Walton.) As for LIFE magazine, they are famous for retouching all the photos that they print.
In fact, retouching was one of the most common aspects of photography in the 1930's to 1970's. For example, that mole underneath Marguerite Oswald's right eye was almost always retouched out of existence. Yet you mistake that as "evidence" of two Marguerite Oswalds!
Thus, I disagree flatly that LIFE magazine retouched photographs comprise evidence! That's utter nonsense. No retouching is ever evidence. Just like -- the scope on LHO's rifle in that front page of LIFE magazine was retouched out of existence, simply because it clashed with the type of paper medium that they used!
RETOUCHING IS NEVER EVIDENCE !!!
Sincerely,
--Paul Trejo
Michael Paine dies at 89
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
I repeat my hope here that Michael Paine left a memoir about his JFK Assassination period.
The vain hope that some people have that everything about a person should or could be found inside WC testimony is always ludicrous.
Just because Michael Paine didn't tell the WC that he saw the inside and the ousted of Oswald's tiny apartment doesn't mean it never happened.
Michael Paine did not volunteer everything that happened with Oswald -- he simply and calmly answered the precise questions that the WC attorneys asked.
In a sense -- we can blame the WC attorneys for the paucity of information we have -- because they failed to ask sufficient questions.
The amazing thing is that they asked Ruth Paine over five thousand questions (that's not an exaggeration) and yet they asked Michael Paine so few questions.
Case in point -- the Backyard Photographs. They bear the stamp, IMHO, of Lee Harvey Oswald working at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall (JCS) which had superb photographic equipment.
It was at JCS that Lee Harvey Oswald forged many items of Fake ID for Alek Hidell -- his alias. Marine card, vaccination card, on and on.
It seems likely to me that Oswald was fired from JCS precisely because he was wasting time with his personal Fake Photo projects.
In any case, the old CIA-did-it CT took a shot to the head when Michael Paine told Gus Russo and Dan Rather that he saw LHO's BYP on 4/2/1963. A true Blockbuster.
The CIA-did-it CTers are still reeling to this very day. What can they do but deny it, and claim yet another CIA conspiracy?
All best,
--Paul Trejo, MA