Malcolm Ward

McLelland once claimed to have seen a small wound in the "left temple." Even if you argue that he meant "right temple," McClelland added in 1963 to the St. Louis Post Dispatch (See Speer, ch. 18d): ""I am fully satisfied that the two bullets that hit him were from behind." In a separate post in this thread, someone dismisses criticism of the Parkland doctors and nurses on the basis that they are "gunshot experts" whose word should be trusted. Do you trust the statement above? Did he suddenly become a non-expert when he made that statement? DALLAS (CBS 11 NEWS) - Friday marks fifty years since President John Fitzgerald Kennedy was gunned down in Dallas, and interest in the anniversary is high. Memories are flooding back, especially for the last surviving surgeon who tried to save the President’s life. “There was no way we could treat him that he could be salvaged,” Dr. Robert McClelland tells CBS 11 News. McClelland and two other surgeons were summoned to Parkland’s ER that fateful Friday. “Pushed the door open and was horrified to see— the first thing I saw there—was President Kennedy lying on his back on a cart with an operating room light shining down on is bloody head.” They initially found the President with what appeared to be only a bullet wound to the neck… until McClelland checked his head. “(I said) ‘My God, have you seen the back of his head?’ And they said, ‘No, we came in just ahead of you.’ And I said, ‘Well, the whole back of his head is missing on the back side.’” McClelland continued, “Well, when I saw that injury to the back of his head, it became apparent to all of us, all three of us who were gathered around the President’s head working on him, that this was a fatal injury.” Still, Kennedy’s heart was working and he was trying to breathe, according to McClelland. “So he was definitely not dead as you could define absolute death, but he certainly had a fatal wound that could not be repaired. Either then or now, for that matter.” They worked on his neck wound for five minutes…until his electrocardiogram straight-lined. When the President was declared dead, Dr. McClelland said there were so many unauthorized people in the cubicle that he and another doctor were trapped inside, pinned between the President’s cart and the wall…and they became unwilling witnesses to his last rites. Mrs. Kennedy-—Jackie–joined the priest, and McClelland says showed no emotion once he told her the rites had been performed. “She then took a ring from her finger, and put it on the President’s finger, and a ring from his finger and put it on her finger,” he said adding that the President’s foot was lying outside the sheet that covered him. “She stood by his foot for just a moment, then leaned over and kissed his bare foot and walked out of the room.” McClelland has since found himself at odds with official versions of what happened at Dealey Plaza. He says he was troubled immediately with the wounds. While the one to the President’s neck seemed to come from behind and was likely the work of Lee Harvey Oswald, it appeared the fatal shot to the back of the President’s head was an exit wound. And later when he closely examined the classic Abraham Zapruder film, he decided there had to be a second gunman. “That he (Kennedy) was shot from the front, from the picket fence,” adjoining the plaza. McClelland knows this runs counter to the accepted, lone gunman reports, but he claims we will likely never know just what happened that day. Ironically, two days later he tried to save the life of accused gunman Lee Harvey Oswald after Oswald was shot by Jack Ruby. McClelland feels Oswald’s wound could have been repaired but he repeatedly went into cardiac arrest and finally died. Source: http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/11/18/surgeon-who-tried-to-save-jfk-reflects-on-50th-anniversary-of-assassination/ PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL ADMISSION NOTE J. F. KENNEDY DATE AND HOUR 11/22/63 1620 DOCTOR: Carrico When patient entered Emergency room on ambulance carriage had slow agonal respiratory efforts and scant cardiac beats by auscultation. Two external wounds were noted. One small penetrating wound of ant. neck in lower 1/3. The other wound had avulsed the calvarium and shredded brain tissue present with profuse oozing. No pulse or blood pressure were present. Pupils were dilated and fixed. A cuffed endotracheal tube was inserted and through the laryngoscope a ragged wound of the trachea was seen immediately below the larynx. The tube was passed past the laceration and the cuff inflated. Respiration using the resp assistor on auto-matic were instituted. Concurrently an IV infusion of lactated Ringer solution was begun via catheter placed in right leg and blood was drawn for type and crossmatch. Type O Rh negative blood was obtained as well as hydrocortisone. In view of tracheal injury and decreased BS a tracheostomy was performed by Dr. Perry and Bilat. chest tubes inserted. A 2nd bld infusion was begun in left arm. In addition Dr. Jenkins began resp with anesthesia machine, cardiac monitor, and stimulator attached. Solu cortef IV given (300mg), attempt to control slow oozing from cerebral and cerebellar tissue via packs instituted. Despite these measures as well as external cardiac massage, BP never returned and EKG evidence of cardiac activity was never obtained. Charles J. Carrico M.D PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL ADMISSION NOTE J. F. KENNEDY DATE AND HOUR 22 Nov 1963 DOCTOR: PERRY Staff Note At the time of initial examination, the pt. was noted as non-responsive. The eyes were deviated and the pupils were dilated. A considerable quantity of blood was noted on the patient, the carriage and the floor. A small wound was noted in the midline of the neck, in the lower third anteriorly. It was exuding blood slowly. A large wound of the right posterior cranium was noted, exposing severely lacerated brain. Brain tissue was noted in the blood at the head of the carriage. Pulse or heartbeat were not detectable but slow spasmodic respiration was noted. An endotracheal tube was in place and respiration was being assisted. An intravenous infusion was being placed in the leg. At this point I noted that respiration was ineffective and while additional venisections were done to administer fluids and blood, a tracheostomy was effected. A right lateral injury to the trachea was noted. The tracheostomy tube was put in place and the cuff inflated and respiration assisted. Closed chest cardiac massage was instituted after placement of sealed drainage chest tubes, but without benefit. Electrocardiographic evaluation revealed that no detectable electrical activity existed in the heart. Resuscitation attempts were abandoned after the team of physicians determined that the patient had expired. Malcolm O. Perry, M.D. 1630 hr 22 Nov 1963 PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL ADMISSION NOTE DATE AND HOUR NOV 22, 1963 DOCTOR: BAXTER Note of Attendance to President Kennedy I was contacted at approx 12:40 that the President was on the way to the emergency room having been shot. On arrival there, I found an endotracheal tube in place with assisted respirations, a left chest tube being inserted and cut downs going in one leg and in the left arm. The President had a wound in the mid-line of the neck. On first observation of the remaining wounds the rt temporal and occipital bones were missing and the brain was lying on the table, with extensive lacerations and contusions. The pupils were fixed and deviated lateral and dilated. No pulse was detectable and respirations were (as noted) being supplied. A tracheotomy was performed by Dr. Perry and I and a chest tube inserted into the right chest (2nd intercostal space anteriorally). Meanwhile, 2 pts of O neg blood were administered by pump without response. When all of these measures were complete, no heart beat could be detected. Closed chest massage was performed until a cardioscope could be attached which revealed no cardiac activity was obtained. Due to the excessive and irreparable brain damage which was lethal, no further attempt to resuscitate the heart was made. Charles R. Baxter M.D. Associate Prof of Surgery Southwestern Medical School PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL ADMISSION NOTE DATE AND HOUR Nov. 22, 1963 4:45 P.M. DOCTOR: Robert N. McClelland Statement Regarding Assassination of President Kennedy At approximately 12:45 PM on the above date I was called from the second floor of Parkland Hospital and went immediately to the Emergency Operating Room. When I arrived President Kennedy was being attended by Drs Malcolm Perry, Charles Baxter, James Carrico, and Ronald Jones. The President was at the time comatose from a massive gunshot wound of the head with a fragment wound of the trachea. An endotracheal tube and assisted respiration was started immediately by Dr. Carrico on Duty in the EOR when the President arrived. Drs. Perry, Baxter, and I then performed a tracheotomy for respiratory distress and tracheal injury and Dr. Jones and Paul Peters inserted bilateral anterior chest tubes for pneumothoracis secondary to the tracheomediastinal injury. Simultaneously Dr. Jones had started 3 cut-downs giving blood and fluids immediately, In spite of this, at 12:55 he was pronounced dead by Dr. Kemp Clark the neurosurgeon and professor of neurosurgery who arrived immediately after I did. The cause of death was due to massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound of the left temple. He was pronounced dead after external cardiac message failed and ECG activity was gone. Robert N. McClelland M.D. Asst. Prof. of Surgery Southwestern Med. School of Univ of Tex. Dallas, Texas DATE AND HOUR 22 Nov 1963 12:20pm to 13:00 hrs Called by EOR while standing in (illegible) Laboratory at SWMS. Told that the President had been shot. I arrived at the EOR at 1220 - 1225 and .The President was bleeding profusely from the back of the head. There was a large (3 x 3cm) amount of cerebral tissue present on the cart. There was a smaller amount of cerebellar tissue present also. A tracheostomy was being performed by Drs. Perry, Baxter and McClelland. Exam of the President showed that an endotracheal tube was in place and respiratory assistance was being given by Dr. Akins and Jenkins. The pupils were dilated, fixed to light and his eyes were deviated outward and the right one downward as as well . The trach was completed and I adjusted the endotracheal tube a little bit. Blood was present in the oral pharynx. Suction was used to remove this. Levine Catheter was passed into the stomach at this time. He was (illegible) that I (illegible) no carotid pulse. I immediately began closed chest massage. A pulse was obtained at the carotid and femoral pulse levels. Dr. Perry then took over the cardiac massage so I could evaluate the head wound. There was a large wound beginning in the right occiput extending into the parietal region. Much of the skull appeared gone at brief examination. The previously described lacerated brain was present. By this time an EKG was hooked up. There was no electrical activity of the heart and no respiratory effort - He was pronounced dead at 1300 hrs by me. W. Kemp Clark 22 Nov 1963 1615 hrs - The earliest reports say nothing of Kennedy's heart beating for five minutes or more before flat-lining. In fact they say the opposite, that Kennedy's heart had stopped beating altogether by the time they hooked up the EKG. And not only that, they indicate the doctors knew of the head wound from the beginning. While it's true Carrico handed things off the Perry, is it really likely 1) Carrico failed to mention that oh yeah by the way the back of his head is blasted off, and 2) Perry failed to notice the brain matter on the cart apparent to everyone else? McClelland's story is just that: a story. Kennedy's heart was not beating for the first five minutes before flat-lining. He (McClelland) was not the first person to notice the head wound. And the wound he observed was not a blow-out wound on the far back of the head as he later would claim...at least for a time. Memories evolve over time--details get re-arranged, the "truth" of what happened gets replaced over time by a story that is emotionally true, etc. This is not my theory. It is a scientific fact. If you think McClelland is immune to memory degradation for some reason, go ahead. As for me, I believe McClelland is a good man. His recollections are just not credible. I mean, how can people claiming McClelland's (latter-day) observations are reliable and proof the President's wounds were altered, not notice that he has for many years claimed the tracheotomy incision shown in the autopsy photos is as he saw it at Parkland? And how is it not hypocritical to claim he's wrong about that, while saying he's undoubtedly right about the head wound? Pat,I have read a lot of your stuff,both here and on your site.And much of it is pretty good.But I cannot agree with you on everything.We have to think back to the time of 63.The time of dissapering Witnesses,the time of altered statements etc.How much pressure would these Doctors have been under to go along with the official lone nut theory. It is on record,I believe,that Lyndon Johnson believed there could be a WW111 if the idea that the Russians did it,or a Communist agent.He put pressure on Earl Warren to take the job on the Warren Commission for that very reason. Could it not be,that these people now speak out,because they no longer see a threat. At the end of the day,the single bullet theory,is just that,a theory.It is not,nor can be proven 100% as most with most things JFK. And just for the record,when I said like Pat Speer,my opinion is eveolving.It was not a attack on you.Either you,or someone else,was it John Simpkin,who said Pat Speers theory is evolving.So I used that,in this discussion,on Mr Perez,who seemed to be attacking me,to say,I am not the only one who can change his mind. And this,"This is not my theory. It is a scientific fact. If you think McClelland is immune to memory degradation for some reason, go ahead." Everyone who is getting on cannot be put down due to memory.I know many people in their eighties who are as sharp as a button.Thirteen years ago,I was in a bad car crash,something that sticks in your memory.I remember the sunroof sliding shut because of the impact.The internal mirror swivelling.I remember were the crash was,what car I and the other driver was driving.The other drivers name,the direction I was driving and relative speed etc.Because it was a major incident in my life.I would also think,treating JFK,by McClelland would have been a Major event in his life.

My,you sound angry Perez.Like Pat Speer,my opinion is evolving.I am williing to see past my own prejudices.And opinions,at times.I once thought that the Secret Service was not involved.I no longer hold that view.The Assassination happened,because the Secret Service was not protecting the President. You could easily say that Prudhomme seems angry (not "sounds angry", as he is not speaking, he's typing), but he is on your side of the argument. So you will pretend that those opposiing your view are angry, while you and those on your side are calm and collected. Not surprisingly, you claim to sense anger in Pat's words, too. Shocker! In fact, the likelihood of you being angry right now is high, as it was not your plan to tout testimony (McClelland's) that goes against the film alteration theory. Having stated that you believed the film was altered was supposed to be a secret, but now someone called you out on it, due to your reliance on the same film. That would make me angry. But it's ok. Evolving views happen all the time. Even in the case of "gunshot expert" McClelland. Now take a deep breath and relax. Your referal to me as Ward,made me think you are angry,unless you always use Surnames.I usually try to be polite,but when someone forgets their manners,I can do likewise.Hence Perez. Perez sounds more polite to me than being called by my first name. Keep it up! If you addressed me has Mr Ward,Perez,as you like to be called.That would be formal,but acceptable.If you called me Mr Malcolm Ward.That would seem formal but acceptable.If you said Malcolm,informal,but acceptable.But just saying Ward,its a bit like from someone like a Teacher in School or a Officer in the Army.A put down by someone trying to assert their authority,in that situation,as a child or a private,not much you can say back.But from a normal adult,to a normal adult,just the use of a Surname,is usually a sign of arrogance or anger. In of which,you have shown yourself to be very capable.So if you insist.Keep it up,but it seems like you are now trying to detract from the debate. At the end of the day,it was not me that said the thing that angered you,I was just,the messenger.So if you want to keep up your conspiracy theory on me,or my motives,that is entirely your choice and you are also very wrong.

Wait a minute, Ward. You are on record believing that the Zapruder film was altered in order to hide a conspiracy, yet you believe that this altered film turned a lone nut theorist into a conspiracy theorist? My,you sound angry Perez.Like Pat Speer,my opinion is evolving.I am williing to see past my own prejudices.And opinions,at times.I once thought that the Secret Service was not involved.I no longer hold that view.The Assassination happened,because the Secret Service was not protecting the President. You could easily say that Prudhomme seems angry (not "sounds angry", as he is not speaking, he's typing), but he is on your side of the argument. So you will pretend that those opposiing your view are angry, while you and those on your side are calm and collected. Not surprisingly, you claim to sense anger in Pat's words, too. Shocker! In fact, the likelihood of you being angry right now is high, as it was not your plan to tout testimony (McClelland's) that goes against the film alteration theory. Having stated that you believed the film was altered was supposed to be a secret, but now someone called you out on it, due to your reliance on the same film. That would make me angry. But it's ok. Evolving views happen all the time. Even in the case of "gunshot expert" McClelland. Now take a deep breath and relax. Your referal to me as Ward,made me think you are angry,unless you always use Surnames.I usually try to be polite,but when someone forgets their manners,I can do likewise.Hence Perez.

Wait a minute, Ward. You are on record believing that the Zapruder film was altered in order to hide a conspiracy, yet you believe that this altered film turned a lone nut theorist into a conspiracy theorist? My,you sound angry Perez.Like Pat Speer,my opinion is evolving.I am williing to see past my own prejudices.And opinions,at times.I once thought that the Secret Service was not involved.I no longer hold that view.The Assassination happened,because the Secret Service was not protecting the President.

From what I have read Terry,it was the police officer that noticed it before Tague.As to bullet fragment,or concrete I am not sure. "I'm standing there maybe four or five seconds, and somebody throws a firecracker," Tague said. "And I'm thinking, 'What kind of idiot would be throwing a firecracker with the president going by?' Of course, that was the first shot. Then the crack, crack, quick shots in a row, and something stings me in the face." Tague’s wound was so superficial that he didn’t even realize he had been hit. He and a deputy sheriff nearby were trying to figure out what had just happened. "We walked across the street just in time to hear this man sobbing, 'His head exploded. His head exploded,'" Tague said. "And the policeman said, 'Whose head?' And he said, 'The president's.'" "[The deputy sheriff] says, ‘You have blood on your face,'" said Tague. "And that's when I remembered something had stung me in the face. And I reached up, and there was three or four drops of blood on my hand." It was eventually determined that James Tague had been wounded from the ricochet of a bullet that missed JFK’s limousine and struck the curb nearby. "That evening, I set down and wrote in a spiral notebook everything I could remember about that day," Tague said. "And I've kept it all these years." Tague was eventually called to testify before the Warren Commission, which concluded that the first shot missed the presidential limousine and struck the curb, wounding Tague. The second bullet, according to the Warren Commission, wounded both JFK and Connally, and the third was the head shot that killed JFK. "They had to go back and rewrite the Warren Commission," Tague said. "That's where the magic bullet came from. That's the only thing they could come up with. That's the only thing they could come up with. That one bullet went through two people." Unedited version of what Tague said,Here. http://www.ibtimes.com/jfk-assassination-50th-anniversary-who-james-tague-meet-third-man-wounded-during-jfk-assassination

McLelland once claimed to have seen a small wound in the "left temple." Even if you argue that he meant "right temple," McClelland added in 1963 to the St. Louis Post Dispatch (See Speer, ch. 18d): ""I am fully satisfied that the two bullets that hit him were from behind." In a separate post in this thread, someone dismisses criticism of the Parkland doctors and nurses on the basis that they are "gunshot experts" whose word should be trusted. Do you trust the statement above? Did he suddenly become a non-expert when he made that statement? DALLAS (CBS 11 NEWS) - Friday marks fifty years since President John Fitzgerald Kennedy was gunned down in Dallas, and interest in the anniversary is high. Memories are flooding back, especially for the last surviving surgeon who tried to save the President’s life. “There was no way we could treat him that he could be salvaged,” Dr. Robert McClelland tells CBS 11 News. McClelland and two other surgeons were summoned to Parkland’s ER that fateful Friday. “Pushed the door open and was horrified to see— the first thing I saw there—was President Kennedy lying on his back on a cart with an operating room light shining down on is bloody head.” They initially found the President with what appeared to be only a bullet wound to the neck… until McClelland checked his head. “(I said) ‘My God, have you seen the back of his head?’ And they said, ‘No, we came in just ahead of you.’ And I said, ‘Well, the whole back of his head is missing on the back side.’” McClelland continued, “Well, when I saw that injury to the back of his head, it became apparent to all of us, all three of us who were gathered around the President’s head working on him, that this was a fatal injury.” Still, Kennedy’s heart was working and he was trying to breathe, according to McClelland. “So he was definitely not dead as you could define absolute death, but he certainly had a fatal wound that could not be repaired. Either then or now, for that matter.” They worked on his neck wound for five minutes…until his electrocardiogram straight-lined. When the President was declared dead, Dr. McClelland said there were so many unauthorized people in the cubicle that he and another doctor were trapped inside, pinned between the President’s cart and the wall…and they became unwilling witnesses to his last rites. Mrs. Kennedy-—Jackie–joined the priest, and McClelland says showed no emotion once he told her the rites had been performed. “She then took a ring from her finger, and put it on the President’s finger, and a ring from his finger and put it on her finger,” he said adding that the President’s foot was lying outside the sheet that covered him. “She stood by his foot for just a moment, then leaned over and kissed his bare foot and walked out of the room.” McClelland has since found himself at odds with official versions of what happened at Dealey Plaza. He says he was troubled immediately with the wounds. While the one to the President’s neck seemed to come from behind and was likely the work of Lee Harvey Oswald, it appeared the fatal shot to the back of the President’s head was an exit wound. And later when he closely examined the classic Abraham Zapruder film, he decided there had to be a second gunman. “That he (Kennedy) was shot from the front, from the picket fence,” adjoining the plaza. McClelland knows this runs counter to the accepted, lone gunman reports, but he claims we will likely never know just what happened that day. Ironically, two days later he tried to save the life of accused gunman Lee Harvey Oswald after Oswald was shot by Jack Ruby. McClelland feels Oswald’s wound could have been repaired but he repeatedly went into cardiac arrest and finally died. Source: http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/11/18/surgeon-who-tried-to-save-jfk-reflects-on-50th-anniversary-of-assassination/

With date having been given and a mention of what it looks like, when one flips the photo of the strike on the fbi photo and look at the photos taken at the time after the assassination it's not hard to see what are trochoidal scratches on the curb that coincide with the chipped concrete lending credence to an alternative idea that the curb had been hit by the clip of a lead wheel weight and Tagues 'wound', unnoticed until pointed out to Tague by Walthers, and subsequent dicscovery of a chip in the curb was used to confirm the direction that a bullet fragment would have to come from to strike the curb and chip off a fragmen that went on to strike Tague on his cheek. I suggest (again) that if there is a credible alternative "Trochoid describe a family of curves. (See: Curve Family Index) Trochoid is defined as the trace of a point fixed on a circle that rolls along a line. Sometimes the name trochoid is used to mean hypotrochoid and epitrochoid. (curve traced by rolling circle on another circle) More generally, trochoid is any curve that is the locus of a point fixed to a curve A, while A rolls on another curve B without slipping. " the Tague - wound senario and anything that flows from it is in question until the notion that it is a wheel weight strike and of no relevance except insofar as how that notion has been used in any consideration regarding ballistics. I think a credible argument has been made that in certain conditions trajectory and kinetic energy falls within the plausible that a fragment could just do this but I don't think that's enough to proclaim it as an established fact that the curb strike or Tagues cheek had anything to do with the assassination. At the same time I don't think one can outright reject the notion either. edit typos Tague had been wounded by the time the third shot was fired. He reported feeling a slight sting which he initially ignored, being "consumed by what was transpiring in front of him" (Trask, 459). It later became the focus of attention when Tague mentioned it to Dallas police officer Buddy Walthers who then noticed blood on his cheek. The most important issue with Tague's wound is the question of which shot caused it. This information will have to coincide with a larger scenario of a shot either missing the presidential limousine or fragmenting after going through the presidential limousine (particularly through Kennedy's head) and going on to hit the curb near Tague. Source: By: William M. Goggins Marquette UniversityVia. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/tague.htm

Tom Robinson was a mortician who worked on the body of President Kennedy following the autopsy, preparing it for burial. He was interviewed by HSCA staff members Andy Purdy and Jim Conzelman early on, during the era when Richard Sprague still headed the HSCA. Mr Robinson described a large rear head wound, "directly behind the back of his head." He also observed what appeared to be a small wound in the right temple. Complete Recording 28:19 WMA MOV MP3 Source: http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/med_testimony/audio/HSCA_Robinson.htm

No problem John.

. This curb surrounding the scar chip was not cut out until August 1964, and is now in the National Archives. The scar chip was 23 feet 6 inches (7.2 m) east of the east edge of the triple underpass railroad bridge, about 20 (6.1 m) feet from where Tague stood during the attack. The detective told Tague it looked like a bullet had been fired from one of the Houston and Elm Streets intersection buildings and had hit the curb. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Tague

Would it not appear,that those who often challenge official reports,are more apt at seeing things from other angles,rather than those who just accept things as stated.To look for other reasons as to why things have happened would seem more healthy than bland acceptance. Perhaps Conspiracy Theories are easily attacked because people lump together the good alternate theories with the bad ones.Some great scientists and physicists have been called lunatics,only for history to prove them right.

IDS and Armed Bodyguards: No-One Trusts the Man who Trusts No-One Mike and several of the commenters over at Vox Political have commented on IDS’ evident paranoia and fear of the public as he appeared before the parliamentary Work and Pension’s Committee. Not only did he have a bodyguard, but was also surrounded by several armed policemen. Martha, one of the people in the public gallery, describes the scene: ‘ Hi Mike, I attended the DWP hearing on Monday, IDS didn’t just have a body guard he had several ‘policemen’ with machine guns, maybe 3 or 4 at least. I didn’t dare to count them as it was frightening and it seemed best to ignore them for obvious reasons. The machine guns were raised and pointed at our group which included 3 people in wheelchairs and about 8 disabled and mentally ill people with their carers. We had all been security checked, bags searched and x-rayed, frisked and had walked through an airport style metal detector. We posed no risk or threat and it is quite normal for the general public to attend debates and hearings in the House of Commons, in fact MPs generally like our presence and encourage us, often coming over to meet us and shake our hands. Is it now acceptable to point guns at the general public when they attend the House of Commons? Who do we complain to?’ As several of the other commenters, including myself, have remarked, such paranoia clearly shows that IDS knows the immense suffering his policies are causing, and fears the rage and possible reprisals from the general public. Even so, such behaviour is still bizarre coming from an MP. I can quite believe Martha when she says that most MPs generally welcome the public to the Houses of Parliament. Politicians across the political divide are worried about increasing electoral apathy and the falling turn-out at elections. Hence the many campaigns by politicos to appeal to the ‘Yoof’ vote. They are also, by and large, conscious that for democracy to work, it has to be seen to work and have the active interest of the people on whose behalf they govern. And finally, like any enthusiastic follower of a particular career or vocation, they, or at least the good ones, try to communicate their enthusiasm for politics to the general public. hence the appearance of politicians and political writers and journalists at the various literary festivals up and down the country. It also has to be said that even politicians, who have advocated some terrible policies towards the poor, could actually be very kind and courteous in person. IDS, by contrast, seems deeply suspicious and mean-spirited. And you have to wonder what he thought he had to fear from people, who’d gone through the usual security searches. Did he get some kind of craven, bullying pleasure by having armed goons point guns at the mentally and physically disabled and vulnerable? And what on Earth were the police doing, if they were pointing their guns at people? There has been considerable criticism of our armed officers before, most notably after the horrific shooting of Charles Menezes. I can remember reading comments from officers in the British army, who had served in Northern Ireland. They were very definitely not impressed by the coppers’ trigger-happy attitude and the way they carried their weapons. In Ulster it was standard practice to carry guns sloping down, with the squaddies’ hands in a posture so they could be immediately ready to bring the gun up if attacked. This was intended to prevent provoking confrontation through the public reacting to a raised weapon as a deadly threat. If the British army, which really did face deadly attacks from terrorist groups in Northern Ireland, is capable of carrying its arms in order to reassure the public and avoid conflict, then the question must be asked why IDS thought he was so important and so threatened that he had guns raised? It gives another clue as to why the man probably failed his officers’ exams. Clearly his judgement when it was appropriate to use deadly force, and when not, was lacking, with the result that he would place himself and the men under his command in serious danger. Someone once said that ‘No-one trusts the man, who trusts no-one’. Smith has shown himself deeply untrustworthy through this show of excessive force. The attitude behind it is one of suspicion and contempt for the general public and especially the poor, unemployed and disabled he has penalised and victimised with his policies. Going into the Committee chamber surrounded by armed guards like the Fascist generalissimo of a banana republic, he is a contemptible petty tyrant, who has therefore shown himself totally unsuited for public office. Source: http://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2013/12/11/ids-and-armed-bodyguards-no-one-trusts-the-man-who-trusts-no-one/

Seconded and bumped Robert.

Byrd,the owner of the TSBD new some important and influential people. Dallas oilman David Harold Byrd, born April 24, 1900, was the cousin of Admiral Richard E. Byrd and his brother, Senator Harry F. Byrd, "the leader of conservative opinion in the United States."305 D.H. Byrd owned the Texas School Book Depository building from the 1930s to the 1970s. In May 1964, he had the "Oswald window" removed and kept it as part of his estate.306 In 1972, after Byrd sold the building to Mr. Aubrey Mayhew, an arsonist set it on fire. It was saved, however. Shortly thereafter Mayhew defaulted on his payments to Republic National Bank of Dallas307 and the property reverted to the Byrd family.308 In 1975 Byrd sold it again.309 Byrd had a close relationship with both Lyndon Johnson and John Connally. Evidently not satisfied with being the cousin of a powerful and respected U.S. senator,310 for D.H. Byrd, "Another goal was to reach a rapport with the politicians who ran things, especially at the seat of state government in Austin....Sam Rayburn, Morrie Sheppard, John Connally, and Lyndon Johnson on the national scene were to become men I could go to any time that I wanted action, and so were a succession of Texas governors. Among the ablest was John Connally...who says he's in my debt for pleading his cause... with...Ida Nell (Nellie) Brill, Sweetheart of The University of Texas in 1940...."311 Byrd probably also knew George de Mohrenschildt, David Atlee Phillips and George Bush through the Dallas Petroleum Club.312 In 1945, future club member de Mohrenschildt obtained a masters degree in petroleum engineering after eighteen months at the University of Texas at Austin.313 During that year he was investigated by the FBI and ONI. That same year he worked under Warren W. Smith, president of Pantipec Oil, owned by the parents of William F. Buckley, Jr. Smith and de Mohrenschildt soon quit and formed the Cuban-Venezuelan Oil Voting Trust Company. When Castro took over, this company forfeited oil leases covering about half of Cuba. Jack Crichton of Army Intelligence Reserve Service, mentioned earlier, had also worked under Warren Smith at Pantipec, which sells to Sun Oil.314 By 1957, George de Mohrenschildt had established himself in oil ventures ranging from wildcat drilling to aerial surveillance and had begun working for the CIA.315 It is probable that Byrd knew David Ferrie and he definitely knew the very top Air Force brass through Civil Air Patrol (CAP). CAP Captain David Ferrie was CAP cadet Lee Harvey Oswald's trainer.316 Source: http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09../fp.back_issues/17th_Issue/rambler3.html

This quote from Greers Son always made me think. His son, Richard Greer, was interviewed in 1991 and added to the conspiracy theory. When asked, "What did your father think of JFK?" Richard responded: "Well, we're Methodists... and JFK was Catholic...” Source: http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Did-Irish-born-William-Greer-cause-JFKs-death-107915254.html Unless you understand Ireland,I do to a degree,my brother served in Northern Ireland at the height of the troubles.Another brother married a irish girl. Catholics were seen as a lower caste in Northern Ireland at the time Greer was born,in fact a lot of the troubles were about the Protestants getting the best jobs,the B Specials,not much better than a Paramilitary Force,having the right to go into Catholics Homes,beating up Catholics etc.BTW I am not a Catholic,I was Christened a Methodist like Greer. But I think Greer would have wondered how come,he a none Catholic was the Chauffer and JFK a Catholic,the boss.If this had any influence on events that day in 1963 I do not know.But that quote makes me wonder.

On better photos I have seen of the Lansdale picture.The cop trailing at the back of the prisoners has a good resemblance to Roscoe White.

Exclusive: Journalist uses Freedom of Information Act to disclose 1961 accident in which one switch averted catastrophe. A secret document, published in declassified form for the first time by the Guardian today, reveals that the US Air Force came dramatically close to detonating an atom bomb over North Carolina that would have been 260 times more powerful than the device that devastated Hiroshima. The document, obtained by the investigative journalist Eric Schlosser under the Freedom of Information Act, gives the first conclusive evidence that the US was narrowly spared a disaster of monumental proportions when two Mark 39 hydrogen bombs were accidentally dropped over Goldsboro, North Carolina on 23 January 1961. The bombs fell to earth after a B-52 bomber broke up in mid-air, and one of the devices behaved precisely as a nuclear weapon was designed to behave in warfare: its parachute opened, its trigger mechanisms engaged, and only one low-voltage switch prevented untold carnage. Each bomb carried a payload of 4 megatons – the equivalent of 4 million tons of TNT explosive. Had the device detonated, lethal fallout could have been deposited over Washington, Baltimore, Philadelphia and as far north as New York city – putting millions of lives at risk. Though there has been persistent speculation about how narrow the Goldsboro escape was, the US government has repeatedly publicly denied that its nuclear arsenal has ever put Americans' lives in jeopardy through safety flaws. But in the newly-published document, a senior engineer in the Sandia national laboratories responsible for the mechanical safety of nuclear weapons concludes that "one simple, dynamo-technology, low voltage switch stood between the United States and a major catastrophe". Writing eight years after the accident, Parker F Jones found that the bombs that dropped over North Carolina, just three days after John F Kennedy made his inaugural address as president, were inadequate in their safety controls and that the final switch that prevented disaster could easily have been shorted by an electrical jolt, leading to a nuclear burst. "It would have been bad news – in spades," he wrote. Jones dryly entitled his secret report "Goldsboro Revisited or: How I learned to Mistrust the H-Bomb" – a quip on Stanley Kubrick's 1964 satirical film about nuclear holocaust, Dr Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb. The accident happened when a B-52 bomber got into trouble, having embarked from Seymour Johnson Air Force base in Goldsboro for a routine flight along the East Coast. As it went into a tailspin, the hydrogen bombs it was carrying became separated. One fell into a field near Faro, North Carolina, its parachute draped in the branches of a tree; the other plummeted into a meadow off Big Daddy's Road. Jones found that of the four safety mechanisms in the Faro bomb, designed to prevent unintended detonation, three failed to operate properly. When the bomb hit the ground, a firing signal was sent to the nuclear core of the device, and it was only that final, highly vulnerable switch that averted calamity. "The MK 39 Mod 2 bomb did not possess adequate safety for the airborne alert role in the B-52," Jones concludes. The document was uncovered by Schlosser as part of his research into his new book on the nuclear arms race, Command and Control. Using freedom of information, he discovered that at least 700 "significant" accidents and incidents involving 1,250 nuclear weapons were recorded between 1950 and 1968 alone. "The US government has consistently tried to withhold information from the American people in order to prevent questions being asked about our nuclear weapons policy," he said. "We were told there was no possibility of these weapons accidentally detonating, yet here's one that very nearly did." Source: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/20/usaf-atomic-bomb-north-carolina-1961

I am glad you have reconsidered John.This is to important a Forum to lose.

Rupert Murdoch,I feel hurt by leak of my private comments. http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5047/rupert-murdoch-i-feel-hurt-by-leak-of-my-private-comments#.UePrjlfbFIU.twitter

The Charities Commission and the Carroll Foundation Trust Are the shady PTB who run this country desperately trying to keep the lid on a series of financial scandals involving the Charities Commission? Take the curious case of the Carroll Foundation Trust. You’d be hard pushed to find more than a handful of articles relating to the Trust and a media blackout on this scale usually indicates a massive cover-up. Read full story here. http://thecolemanexperience.wordpress.com/2013/02/25/the-charities-commission-and-the-carroll-foundation-trust/ more here. http://carrolltrustcase.com/uncategorized/cayman-islands-offshore-accounts-tax-haven-carrolltrust-mi6-mi5-cross-border-irs-hmrc-prosecution-files-billion-dollars-tax-evasion-case/ and here. The sensational Carroll Foundation Trust and parallel Carroll Maryland Trust billion dollars offshore tax evasion fraud scandal which is now encircling 10 Downing Street and threatening the very political existence of certain senior members of the Conservative Party has disclosed in an amazing further twist that Prime Minister David Cameron's family estate interests are thought to be closely linked to this massive trans-national crime syndicate operation which stretches the globe. http://paulviking.websitetoolbox.com/post/Smith-Williamson-LLP-Accountants-NCL-Investments-EXPLOSIVE-CARROLL*TRUST-DISCLOSURES-PM-David-Cameron-Family-Estate-Files*Link-6094373 and here. http://carrolltrustcase.com/uncategorized/mi5-director-sir-jonathan-evans-dirty-little-secret-gerald-carroll-trust-hired-board-director-hsbc-international-most-dangerous-trans-national-crime-syndicate-case/

PM David Cameron + Alexander Cameron QC Family Estate = BLAIRMORE CONNECTION - EXPLOSIVE - CARROLL*TRUST MI6 = UK's Biggest Tax Evasion Money Laundering Fraud The sensational Carroll Foundation Trust and parallel Carroll Maryland Trust billion dollars offshore tax evasion fraud scandal which is now encircling 10 Downing Street and soon to threaten the very political existence of senior members of the Conservative Party has revealed that the new explosive FBI Scotland Yard prosecution files have also named Smith Williamson Holdings Ltd. the accountancy and investment management company in this case of international importance. Sources have confirmed that the dossiers contain compelling criminal evidential material concerning Smith Williamson's shocking fraudulent accounting operation which was targeted at the Carroll Global Corporation industrial empire. Further sources have said that Smith Williamson were appointed by the Carroll Foundation Trust immediately prior to the commencement of the systematic embezzlement and criminal liquidation of the trust's billion dollar world wide investment holdings spanning a staggering sixteen years. It is understood that the files also contain a forensic paper trail surrounding the very close links that Prime Minister David Cameron's family estate interests continue to retain with Smith Williamson the Cameron family offshore tax haven based investment vehicles Blairmore Holdings Blairmore Asset Management and the Cameron links to a clutch of Church of England charities and family trusts whose funds are also managed by Smith Williamson. In a stunning twist it has emerged that the newly knighted Sir Tony Baldry MP a highly respected criminal barrister and a senior figure in the Church of England who is retained by the Carroll Trust has also close links with Smith Williamson which is fueling speculation in Westminster that this massive billion dollar tax fraud case could soon seriously threaten David Cameron's position as Prime Minister in what well seasoned political observers now regard as the largest ever society scandal now embroiling senior members of the British Royal family. FOOTNOTE: The Blairmore legacy that David Cameron's father Ian Cameron left is unlike that of his forebears - it's not in the rolling hills of Scotland but in glass and steal office blocks in Panama City Geneva the Cayman Islands Gibraltar and Nassau Bahamas - all tax havens which are central actors in the Carroll Foundation Maryland Trust case. International News Networks: http://downingstreetcomms.blogspot.com Sourced From http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-890631 Footnote,This story is from December 2012,but speculation that something big could rock Camerons Government is now in the UK News.A apparent sexual scandal ,No 10 rocked by secret love affair.In yeserdays Daily Mail. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BLs9reYCUAElpo6.jpg:large

The full truth about who planned and perpetrated the Lockerbie bombing could become public after the Libyan government promised to open all files they hold on the atrocity. Speaking on the 24th anniversary of Britain’s worst mass murder, Mahmud Nacua, the Libyan ambassador to the UK, predicted: “Everyone will know what happened in that crime.” However, he said it would be at least a year before the fledgling government in Tripoli has enough “security and stability” to open the files for inspection. The promise was given a cautious welcome by families of the British victims and campaigners convinced that Abdelbaset Al Megrahi, the only man ever convicted of the bombing, was innocent. Pan Am Flight 103 exploded over the Scottish town of Lockerbie in December 1988 with the loss of 270 lives. Megrahi died of cancer in May this year after being controversially freed from prison on compassionate grounds in 2009. Frank Mulholland, the Lord Advocate and Scotland’s most senior prosecutor, has agreed he could not have acted alone and hopes to use the downfall of the Gaddafi regime last year to pursue other suspects He and Robert Mueller, the head of the FBI, travelled to Tripoli earlier this year to meet the Libyan prime minister and ask for cooperation into the ongoing investigation into the bombing. Referring to the victims’ families, Mr Nacua said: “We sympathise with them, with their loss and I think our government will, when we have enough time, enough security and stability, all these files will be open and everyone will know what happened in that crime.” Asked if the atrocity was an act of state-sponsored terrorism by the Gaddafi regime, he said: “I can’t say because I haven’t enough details, only the information which is published in the media, but maybe in the future there is a chance we open the files and we know new information about what happened.” He could not provide a precise timescale, but said this could happen after a new Libyan constitution is in place alongside a permanent parliament and government “after a year from now”. Mr Nacua said his government was “very open to any demands” from the British about the Lockerbie case, including allowing Scottish police officers to conduct interviews in Libya. But he indicated they would not support an international inquiry into the atrocity, pointing out Libya is an “independent country” and asserting that the “local judiciary will be fair for any case”. Dr Jim Swire, whose 23-year-old daughter Flora died in the atrocity, welcomed the development but said the truth would not be discovered until “the nonsense of the case against Megrahi” had been exposed. Dr Swire, the former spokesman for the British relatives of Lockerbie group, said: “Where Libya is concerned, we may discover some mischief from the Gaddafi days but the more urgent matter is showing Megrahi was not involved.” Referring to Megrahi’s conviction, he said: “It is de facto protecting those responsible from investigation. Anything that might reveal something about the truth is welcome but Scotland is the first place to look.” Robert Forrester, secretary of the Justice for Megrahi campaign group, said: "It is excellent news on the grounds that more openness on the part of all governments involved in this, not just Libya but Scotland, the UK and the US, is to be welcomed.” http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9760566/Full-truth-about-Lockerbie-bombing-could-become-public-as-Libya-promise-to-open-all-files.html

Watergate scandal: secret files released Previously undisclosed discussions involving John J Sirica, the Watergate judge, are revealed in 850 pages made public. The US government has released more than 850 pages from the Watergate political scandal, providing new insights on privileged legal conversations and prison evaluations of several of the burglars in the case. A federal judge had decided earlier in November to unseal some material, but other records still remain off limits. The files from the National Archives show that Judge John J Sirica aided the prosecution in pursuing the White House connection to the Democratic headquarters break-in at the Watergate Hotel in 1972. Sirica provided the special prosecutor information from a probation report in which one of the burglars said he was acting under orders from top Nixon administration officials One newly public transcript of an in-chambers meeting between Sirica, who was the US district court judge in charge of the case, and special prosecutor Archibald Cox in July 1973 shows the judge revealed secret probation reports indicating that E Howard Hunt had cited orders from officials high up in the Nixon administration. Several of Hunt's co-defendants had previously denied any White House involvement in court testimony, and Sirica told Cox and other prosecutors that he felt the new information "seemed to me significant". The files provide useful context for historians of the 40-year-old case, revealing behind-the-scenes deliberations by Sirica along with prosecutors and defense lawyers. The documents stem from the prosecution of five defendants arrested during the June 1972 Watergate break-in and two men, Hunt and G Gordon Liddy, who were charged as the burglary team's supervisors. All seven men were convicted. In the conversations between Cox and Sirica the special prosecutor agreed with the judge's concerns that the probation report should be sealed and thanked him for the information. Cox promised that his team would not divulge the new information unless they felt there was a prosecutorial need and returned for a hearing to make it public. "Unless we came back," Cox told Sirica, "we wouldn't reveal it." The former Nixon White House lawyer John Dean, who co-operated with prosecutors and testified against Nixon during an explosive congressional hearing in June 1973, said on Friday after reviewing some of the newly released files that he believed Sirica "was very aggressive for a judge, even more than the White House was aware of at the time. No one in the Nixon White House knew exactly where he was coming from." Dean added that while Sirica's investigative zeal was well-known his dealings with Cox and other prosecutors were "eye-opening". US District Judge Royce Lamberth in November ordered the files unsealed after a request from Luke Nichter, a professor at Texas A&M University-Central Texas. Nichter wrote to Lamberth in 2009 asking for release of the materials. Lamberth held back other sealed materials but agreed to ask the justice department to explain the reasoning for keeping those materials secret. The documents released by the archives reinforce Sirica's reputation as a gruff, no-nonsense jurist. During pretrial hearings in December 1972 Hunt's defence attorney sought to delay the trial after the former CIA man's wife was killed in a plane crash. Sirica refused to put the trial on hold unless there was proof Hunt was suffering from a serious medical condition, according to the transcripts. "If he is just emotionally upset, that, in my opinion, is not a valid excuse," Sirica said. "If he gets tired during the day I will arrange for him to go down and take a rest for two or three hours if he wishes." A doctor who examined Hunt said in a letter to Sirica in early January 1973 that he suffered from ulcers and other gastrointestinal ailments but "has sufficient present ability to consult with his lawyer". The doctor, Charles E Law Sr, said he was worried that Hunt would weep in court, especially when questioned by prosecutors. Reports from prison psychiatrists and probation officers show that four of Hunt's co-defendants justified their role in the Watergate break-in on national security grounds, saying they were under orders to search for evidence that Cuban government funds supported Democratic party campaigns. Dean said on Friday that Hunt once told him that excuse was a sham used to persuade the others to participate in the burglary. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/01/watergate-scandal-secret-files-revealed

The sewer shot was rarely mentioned by researchers or the public after Lane focused on the Grassy Knoll, but a few of us kept seeking the evidence. Subsequent "tell all" books by alleged participants usually repeat the standard locations, the TSBD window or the Grassy Knoll, for verisimilitude. A book published in the 1990's, long after it would have been fashionable to lie about the sewer location, titled Treason is My Daily Bread, by Mikhail Ledbedev, reveals his role in a plot involving Nazi intelligent agent Reinhard Gehlen to kill Kennedy in Dallas, and mentions that he was sent to shoot from the storm sewer. He may be covering for the real assassin in this, but by picking the sewer location he adds credibility to his account in my view. There are many other indications that Gehlen and his cold war spy network that formed our CIA were part of the JFK assassination conspiracy. Source: http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/sewerShot.html Evidence of link between Nazis still in operation after World War II to the still unsolved murder of John F. Kennedy by Mae Brussell http://www.maebrussell.com/Mae%20Brussell%20Articles/Nazi%20Connection%20to%20JFK%20Assass.html

I found this strange to Ian,is it pure ignorance or a deflection technique.Someone who is Gay is no more likely to have Paedophile tendencies than a Heterosexual.I doubt if he needed to read the list,I would think Intelligence had given him a list of likely suspects.