Robert Prudhomme

Robert

I do not think the bullet could have originated from the other pergola to the rear of the limo.

If Connally was facing forward at the moment he was struck in the back, the bullet would have to originate from the right rear of the limo, but more to the right than the rear. As I stated, the wound evidence shows this bullet was travelling almost as much sideways across Connally's chest as it was travelling forward. This is why I believe Connally was shot from the rear, but at a time when he was turned far to his right.

By "the other pergola to the rear of the limo" I am assuming you mean the reflecting pool area across the street from the TSBD.

P.S.

The lower floors and roof of the Dal-Tex Building are looking more likely all the time aren't they? Think about Officer Baker seeing the flock of pigeons lifting off of the roof of the TSBD. If the shots were one floor down from the roof of the TSBD, how would the pigeons be startled by the shots, with a good portion of the building shielding them from the noise? But, a second shooter on the roof of the Dal-Tex could easily startle pigeons into flight with a shot. Notice no pigeons flew from the roof of the Dal-Tex, according to Baker? Maybe because the shooting team arriving on the roof scared them off, and they re-settled on the roof of the TSBD?

The first thing to know about Connally's back wound is that its precise location is one of those elastic things taken advantage of by the WC lawyers.

If you look at the drawings of the wounds, the back entrance wound is shown as being immediately next to the outside margin of the shoulder blade. In reality, it is slightly more to the right, at the fold created where chest and arm meet; ie. the armpit. This is why the wound was oblong, and not because the bullet was tumbling. It was an oblong wound because it struck the side of his chest tangentially; in other words, a glancing blow that came very close to missing his chest altogether.

As stated in the medical report, the bullet struck Connally at the right "mid-axillary line". (opposite side from this photo)

According to the medical report of Connally's thoracic surgeon, Dr. Robert Shaw, this bullet exited to the LEFT of and slightly below Connally's right nipple. Do you see what everyone has been missing here? The bullet entered at the extreme right side of his chest, and exited between his right nipple and the centre of his chest. Can you picture the extreme right to left angle (possibly 40°) this bullet was travelling across the front of Connally's chest?

This fact alone tells us one of two things. Connally was either turned to the right when struck by the bullet, or the bullet originated from a part of the TSBD further west of the SE 6th floor window.

Now, how did the bullet follow a straight line course while ploughing through 10 cm. of the 5th rib, without penetrating the chest cavity? Considering the rib is curved, this would seem impossible at first but it is actually quite possible. In his medical report and his WC testimony, Dr. Shaw provides us with the explanation.

When Dr. Shaw examined Connally's 5th rib, he discovered that it was, in comparison to the 4th and 6th rib, severely depressed inwards toward the right lung. He later discovered a break in Connally's 5th rib in an unexpected place. It had suffered a stress fracture just out from where it attached to Connally's vertebra in his back. What had occurred is the bullet, travelling along the rib and attempting to follow a straight course, had depressed the rib inward toward the lung. In doing so, it had caused a fracture of the rib close to where the rib attached to the backbone.

The open pneumothorax or "sucking" chest wound Connally experienced was due, according to Dr. Shaw, from blasted shards of ploughed out rib bone being driven into the pleural cavity and acting as secondary missiles.

Do you see what this does for the Single Bullet Theory? It basically eliminates the SBT from occurring any time Connally was not turned a great deal to his right.

Considering that the bullet entered Connally's right rear armpit, and exited just to the left of and below his right nipple, I would be interested to know where Connally's wrist would have to be, in order to make your scenario work.

P.S.

Aren't you just a bit curious as to how a bullet could follow the outside of a curved rib, and still follow a straight and true course?

Chris, I don't know what the 'angle of declination' was for the wound incurred on CONNALLY.

I have my doubts that it can be known for certain, I base this on the fact that the conspirators seemed to be able to alter evidence as needed. I know this is a broad statement but it can be backed up by volumes of examples. ('they' altered the wounds on KENNEDY they certainly could alter the location of wounds on CONNALLY). A clue that something was amiss is evident in the FBI display of CONNALLYS shirt. The FBI is hiding something in this photograph, the only thing important to hide is the location of the bullet hole. The bullet hole or entrance wound may be lower than we think and or more on CONNALLYS side than back.

Chris please look at Z-324 at how CONNALLY is bent forward, note he also has tucked in his right arm, his body is likely slightly twisted to his left as well as leaning toward NELLIE. A shot from the monument area would have hit him in the back or more on his side, passed thru his chest, caused the wounds on his right wrist and left leg. In short this IS the only time CONNALLY is aligned so that a single bullet could cause all of the wounds he incurred.

Also of note at Z-324 CONNALLY is still holding onto his hat with his right hand...

Also of note, neither NELLIE nor CONNALLY claimed to have moved following the fatal head wound, the fact that CONNALLYS are sitting hunched down at Z-324 should not have been possible based on both of their testimonies. Plus as I have demonstrated their movements from Z-313 prone positions to sitting up at Z-324 is absolutely impossible.

It is verified within the z-film NELLIE and CONNALLY both lied about what transpired during the assassination.

Bob

Just wanted to point out that, according to the medical report following Connally's thoracic surgery, Connally did not suffer a through and through wound of his right lung. Rather, the bullet contacted his 5th rib at the mid-anterior line (side of his chest) and followed the 5th rib downard; staying on the outside of the 5th rib but ploughing through it. It left the 5th rib and exited just below and to Connally's left of his right nipple. In other words, not only was the bullet travelling downwards, it was travelling at an angle from right to left.

You are correct in assuming the entrance wound on Connally's back was moved, ever so slightly. The wound was described by the surgeon as oblong, and there is a very good reason for it being oblong. Specter & Co. needed a tumbling bullet, and took advantage of the oblong entrance wound description and explained it away by claiming it was made by a tumbling bullet, but its oblong shape had nothing to do with a tumbling bullet. Despite the bullet following the outside of a curved rib, it still travelled in a straight and true path, and left a round exit hole in the front of Connally's jacket 3/8" in diameter; a diameter slightly less than 1/8" larger than the diameter of a 6.5mm bullet.

If the bullet had struck Connally where the diagrams show (ie. just outside the outer margin of the scapula) it most definitely would have gone through Connally's right lung.

Do you see how we've been had, and how desperate these people were to make the SBT work?

I can see both sides of this discussion. On one hand, there is a person at the top of the steps who no one seems to be able to account for, and who certainly seems to bear a strong resemblance to Oswald. OTOH, the photo is blurry as hell, and a proper ID of Prayer Man is somewhat elusive. However, should Prayer Man have been photographed, in this quality, on the SE corner of the 6th floor, the photo would have been the cornerstone of the WCR.

Myself, I plan to keep an open mind on the matter, and hope that Buell Wesley Frazier decides to come clean some time before he goes on to the Great Beyond. The two things that bother me most about Frazier is that he testified to the WC he did not see a helmeted motorcycle cop (Baker) run past him on the top of the steps, and that the tall lanky Frazier can be seen, in the photo, looking directly at Prayer Man, yet he has no recollection of that either.

However, don't get me started on the whole Baker/Frazier/Shelley/Lovelady/Victoria Adams thing. There are ALL kinds of people in impossible places at impossible times in this mess.

LOL!!! Now THAT was funny!

A match made in Heaven!

Here is the kind of recreation test I believe should have been conducted in Dealey Plaza. Members of the Warren Commission should have been stationed at open windows on the 4th and 5th floors where Adams/Hopson/Garner/Styles and Williams/Norman/Jarman were located, and three shots fired from the SE corner window of the 6th floor.

Do you think there would have been any confusion about where the shots came from? I think Norman would have had more to talk about than hearing some shells hitting the floor.

Same "The Dallas Times Herald' article

"Photographer Bob Jackson of the Time Herald heard one shot and then two more rapid shots. From his vantage point in an open air convertible the eight car in the procession, Jackson saw two men peering from the building window on the fifth floor.

They were looking directly above their heads. Jackson saw a rifle being drawn back into a sixth floor window."

Lets deconstruct these lies from BOB JACKSON

1) NORMAN, JARMAN and WILLAIMS three men who where supposedly located in the fifth floor windows testified specifically to not having looked up to the sixth floor SN window directly over head, at any time during or after the assassination.

2) Shot sequence bham....bham.bham this is actually true but goes against the WC/R three shot scenario timing.

3) First shot was silent and entered KENNEDY'S throat, JACKSON was unaware of this shot. The first rifle shot came from the side and caused the fatal head wound. JACKSON can not be telling the truth about looking up at this time and seeing the weapon that caused the fatal head wound.

4) Interesting that JACKSON claimed seeing only two men on the fifth floor because this reinforces my belief that WILLIAMS ate his lunch in the snipers nest and stayed there to watch the motorcade, after the gunfire he joined NORMAN and JARMAN on the fifth floor to watch the activity of law enforcement search the rail yards. One reason why NORMAN, WILLIAMS and JARMAN may have all insisted they heard no sounds coming from the sixth floor was in part true and helped to protect WILLIAMS. They had to know with absolute certainty that shots came from the monument area and that OSWALD was not only not on the sixth floor but that no shots came from the TSBD. JARMAN insisted that shots came from below and to the left, he did not fall in line. NORMAN and WILLIAMS only claimed shots came from somewhere in the building, no claim was made about the SN as the location of the rifle shots.

5) JACKSON flat out lied to gain favor and or to gain notoriety.

I find it very telling that Jarman, Norman and Williams do not, in their WC testimony, describe hearing three deafening muzzle blasts that would have left their ears ringing for quite some time. If they were not accustomed to hearing muzzle blasts, this would have been a very memorable event, yet it is barely mentioned by them.

Robert P, yes I have been curious about the same thing. The diorama must be speculation concerning JACKSONS actions.

Is it that CHANEY and JACKSON were removed from Z-Film or are they out of frame and Sprocket hole area for good reasons? If they were removed is it because of technical problems with altering the Z-film or could it be because of their actions during the assassination?

It would be interesting to hear from film experts that have been to DP and could determine why CHANEY and JACKSON do not appear in later frames in the Z-film.

We do know by Nix and Muchmore films that all the MC police fell back to positions behind the limo bumper sometime after Z-255.

Hi Bob

This has interested me for quite some time now. Many have tried to tell me it only appears the motorcycle cop is beside JFK, due to Altgens' telephoto lens, but this also appears to be merely speculation on their part. I wish I was talented in the field of photo analysis.

Do you know who constructed this diorama and when?

Mason is a curious figure. However, I think the real importance is that the FBI could not find any locations where Oswald purchased ammo. He didnt buy any when the rifle was purchased (my gun enthusiast friends say that almost never happens) and there were no fingerprints on the shells found in the TSBD.

Yes, it is unusual, considering Klein's had an excellent deal on surplus Italian SMI ammo which included the all important clip. That is another question I had for Mr. Masen. As the WCC 6.5mm Carcano ammo he was retailing did not come with the clip, did he sell these separately?

Bob...

Thought you might find this interesting and maybe help us less informed about guns and ammo people if this means anything ...

Seems the only two places in the Dallas-Irving area to get 6.5mm MC ammo was one of 2 places including Masens Gun shop.

The report below states that the ammo provided by Masen matched the cartridges found on the 6th floor... yet they were loaded with soft point ammo, not FMJ ammo.

Any significance to this?

https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11176&relPageId=4

Hi Dave

Sorry for my long absence. I have made an effort to contact both John Brinegar and John Masen. Brinegar's store must have closed down many years ago, as his trail is quite cold. The best lead I could get is that he had moved to Alaska some time in the mid-60's. OTOH, Mr. Masen is still alive and well and living in Dallas. The gun store he established is still doing a thriving business, although his family now runs it for him. I have made several requests to contact Mr. Masen but, sadly, all have been politely denied.

The reason Mr. Masen had a box of WCC 6.5mm Carcano cartridges loaded with soft point hunting bullets is very simple. Some of Mr. Masen's customers owned Carcanos and the only ammo available would have been Italian SMI full metal jacket or WCC full metal jacket bullets. As FMJ bullets are universally banned from hunting (due to their resistance to expand in a wound), this meant these owners were restricted to target shooting with their Carcanos. Using a bullet puller, Mr. Masen would extract the FMJ bullet, and seat a soft point hunting bullet into the neck of the cartridge.

However, this presents an interesting problem, and the reason I wished to speak with Mr. Masen. WC supporters have long maintained the WCC cartridges were made exactly to Italian specs, including the bullets loaded into the cartridges being the required .268 inch diameter. As I have stated before, the Carcano, with its uniquely deep rifling grooves, had to shoot a bullet .268 inch in diameter in order to be accurate, while the vast majority of other 6.5mm rifles shot a bullet .264 inch in diameter.Therefore, if Mr. Masen pulled .268 inch FMJ bullets from the WCC cartridges, he would have had to replace them with .264 inch SP bullets, as there would not have been .268 inch SP bullets available in 1963.

Of course, the .264 inch bullets would have been a sloppy fit in a .268 inch neck. Was he required to resize the cartridge necks in a die? Or were the WCC cartridges loaded with .264 inch bullets, and no resizing was required?

Bob...

Thought you might find this interesting and maybe help us less informed about guns and ammo people if this means anything ...

Seems the only two places in the Dallas-Irving area to get 6.5mm MC ammo was one of 2 places including Masens Gun shop.

The report below states that the ammo provided by Masen matched the cartridges found on the 6th floor... yet they were loaded with soft point ammo, not FMJ ammo.

Any significance to this?

https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11176&relPageId=4

Hi Dave

Sorry for my long absence. I have made an effort to contact both John Brinegar and John Masen. Brinegar's store must have closed down many years ago, as his trail is quite cold. The best lead I could get is that he had moved to Alaska some time in the mid-60's. OTOH, Mr. Masen is still alive and well and living in Dallas. The gun store he established is still doing a thriving business, although his family now runs it for him. I have made several requests to contact Mr. Masen but, sadly, all have been politely denied.

The reason Mr. Masen had a box of WCC 6.5mm Carcano cartridges loaded with soft point hunting bullets is very simple. Some of Mr. Masen's customers owned Carcanos and the only ammo available would have been Italian SMI full metal jacket or WCC full metal jacket bullets. As FMJ bullets are universally banned from hunting (due to their resistance to expand in a wound), this meant these owners were restricted to target shooting with their Carcanos. Using a bullet puller, Mr. Masen would extract the FMJ bullet, and seat a soft point hunting bullet into the neck of the cartridge.

However, this presents an interesting problem, and the reason I wished to speak with Mr. Masen. WC supporters have long maintained the WCC cartridges were made exactly to Italian specs, including the bullets loaded into the cartridges being the required .268 inch diameter. As I have stated before, the Carcano, with its uniquely deep rifling grooves, had to shoot a bullet .268 inch in diameter in order to be accurate, while the vast majority of other 6.5mm rifles shot a bullet .264 inch in diameter.Therefore, if Mr. Masen pulled .268 inch FMJ bullets from the WCC cartridges, he would have had to replace them with .264 inch SP bullets, as there would not have been .268 inch SP bullets available in 1963.

Of course, the .264 inch bullets would have been a sloppy fit in a .268 inch neck. Was he required to resize the cartridge necks in a die? Or were the WCC cartridges loaded with .264 inch bullets, and no resizing was required?

Robert,

Maybe you could send him a letter asking these questions?

--Tommy

Hi Tommy

That is one of the methods I attempted. I sent Mr. Masen a very polite and cordial e-mail, care of The Gun Shop, assuring him I only had a couple of questions and that I would not become a nuisance but this failed, as well. Can't say that I blame him as, like many figures in this matter, he has probably had to endure his fair share of crazies.

Not one person is looking upwards.

The SSA are not looking up they are scanning ground level and they are all looking in different areas.

This is long after supposedly two rifle shots should have been heard.

The limo has past, some of the bystanders start looking toward the VP car.

Think about this photo, the man who created this diorama has SSA exiting the VP follow-up car in A6 or Z-255, the problem with this is the VP car is still traveling at 10-12 mph and can be seen in the Bronson film 2 car lengths behind the QM, the VP car does not come to a halt until the QM stops at Z-313. This also means the person that created the diorama has the agent exiting the VP follow-up car while it is traveling at 10-12 mph. Can you see the problem of a rifle shot being heard before Z-313? There is no compelling evidence of a rifle shot prior to Z-313, even according to LBJ and all of the SSA assigned to him and specifically according to Altgens #6.

Bob

There is another very interesting thing about this diorama. The man who created it has the two motorcycle cops, on JFK's right side, travelling beside the limo, while the two on the left of the limo are travelling abreast of the front fender of the QM.

Now, anyone who has watched the Zapruder film knows perfectly well there were no motorcycles on the right side of the limo at the place this diorama depicts. However, the Altgens 6 photo shows something different.

Is the cop looking at JFK?

Bob...

Thought you might find this interesting and maybe help us less informed about guns and ammo people if this means anything ...

Seems the only two places in the Dallas-Irving area to get 6.5mm MC ammo was one of 2 places including Masens Gun shop.

The report below states that the ammo provided by Masen matched the cartridges found on the 6th floor... yet they were loaded with soft point ammo, not FMJ ammo.

Any significance to this?

https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11176&relPageId=4

Hi Dave

Sorry for my long absence. I have made an effort to contact both John Brinegar and John Masen. Brinegar's store must have closed down many years ago, as his trail is quite cold. The best lead I could get is that he had moved to Alaska some time in the mid-60's. OTOH, Mr. Masen is still alive and well and living in Dallas. The gun store he established is still doing a thriving business, although his family now runs it for him. I have made several requests to contact Mr. Masen but, sadly, all have been politely denied.

The reason Mr. Masen had a box of WCC 6.5mm Carcano cartridges loaded with soft point hunting bullets is very simple. Some of Mr. Masen's customers owned Carcanos and the only ammo available would have been Italian SMI full metal jacket or WCC full metal jacket bullets. As FMJ bullets are universally banned from hunting (due to their resistance to expand in a wound), this meant these owners were restricted to target shooting with their Carcanos. Using a bullet puller, Mr. Masen would extract the FMJ bullet, and seat a soft point hunting bullet into the neck of the cartridge.

However, this presents an interesting problem, and the reason I wished to speak with Mr. Masen. WC supporters have long maintained the WCC cartridges were made exactly to Italian specs, including the bullets loaded into the cartridges being the required .268 inch diameter. As I have stated before, the Carcano, with its uniquely deep rifling grooves, had to shoot a bullet .268 inch in diameter in order to be accurate, while the vast majority of other 6.5mm rifles shot a bullet .264 inch in diameter.Therefore, if Mr. Masen pulled .268 inch FMJ bullets from the WCC cartridges, he would have had to replace them with .264 inch SP bullets, as there would not have been .268 inch SP bullets available in 1963.

Of course, the .264 inch bullets would have been a sloppy fit in a .268 inch neck. Was he required to resize the cartridge necks in a die? Or were the WCC cartridges loaded with .264 inch bullets, and no resizing was required?

I guess one way to find out is to finish the model, and start "shooting" with the laser pointer.

Hi Chris

I think I see where you are going with this. You don't necessarily believe the fatal headshot was at the z313 location, and feel it might have occurred at the 307 foot trajectory location seen in WCD 298, maybe?

Hmmm...interesting.

Just as I have difficulty understanding how the WC placed the trajectory of the rifle 2 feet above the window sill, I also have difficulty imagining a trajectory from the back seat of the QM, to the lower part of the back of JFK's head, clearing the top of the QM windshield. The biggest problem I have with this is that JFK was not sitting upright at z313 but, rather leaned over to his left, and his head was lower than at, say, z210. Also, as I don't believe Hickey had spotted a target to shoot at, would he have the AR-15 up to his shoulder, ready to take aim, or would he be holding it lower down, while he scanned for a target?

It is very tempting to believe JFK was accidentally shot by Hickey with an AR-15, as the resultant display at z313 would match with a shot like this. However, being shot from behind with a .223 would not explain the gaping hole in the right rear of JFK's head, observed by Parkland physicians.

Chris

Powers would have been standing up, and holding the camera up to his eye. You're not suggesting Hickey was holding the AR-15 up to his eye, are you?

I think I understand now. The photos of the testing by Shaneyfelt show the rifle, at the 6th floor window, quite high in the air and mounted on a tripod. Its position is far higher than a position a shooter would have naturally assumed on the window sill.

For that matter, how did the WC arrive at the figure of the rifle being 2 feet above the window sill? If the boxes were stacked 2 feet higher than the window sill, giving Oswald a shooting rest, how did Brennan give such an accurate description of Oswald?

Hi Chris

Any idea what Robert West meant when he said the rifle was "jacked up in the window"?

Still doesn't work, unless he's holding the AR-15 over his head. He's way at the back of the Cadillac, and not that tall of a man. The '56 Cadillac had a high windshield on it, and I believe it would have gotten in the way. That is another I will be testing.

Would the windshield on the Cadillac not have gotten in the way? In the cartoon, it appears the trajectory from Hickey to JFK is going through the windshield.

Hi Chris

I happened to take another look at the graphic you posted a link to in post #192. The graphic must have been drawn after JFK's entry wound was moved from the lower part of the back of his head (EOP) up to the cowlick. The artist shows the trajectory lined up with a bullet exiting above JFK's left eyebrow, after, of course, going to the left of Jack Ready's head.

No that's fine, Chris. I just wasn't sure what you meant by 6 feet.

So Clint Hill was 6 feet tall. It's funny how camera angles will put things in different perspectives. It always appeared that the 5 foot 7 Jackie was much taller than him, although 3 and 4 inch heels were common on women in those days.

The same trick perspective applies to the Altgens 6 photo. A poster on another forum pointed out to me that Jack Ready had to be much shorter than Clint Hill, and the proof he used was the Altgens 6 photo. However, a close look at the top of the QM windshield in this photo shows the QM leaning somewhat to the right side, making Ready only appear to be that much shorter. In reality, I would put Ready at 6 feet, if not a bit taller, and the agent behind him (can never remember his name) at about the same height.

So, if the top of the Caddy running board is even 10 inches off the asphalt, that means the top of Ready's head could be almost 7 feet off the pavement.

Now, although, as you pointed out, JFK was 52.78 inches to the top of his head off the pavement, while riding in the limo, I believe this measurement would be of JFK sitting upright, n'est-ce pas? After the back and neck wound, he had certainly slumped over somewhat, and I wonder how many inches we can subtract from 52.78 inches to account for this?

Also, I never subscribed to the HSCA story of the entrance wound being in JFK's cowlick, near the top of his head, and always believed Humes to be telling at least part of the truth by reporting the entrance wound to be just to the right of and slightly lower than JFK's external occipital protuberance. That alone brings our aiming point 4 inches down from the top of his head and, combined with JFK slumping, may put our impact and aim point on JFK 3.5 feet or less above the pavement on Elm St.

So, an SS agent 7 feet tall vs. JFK at 3.5 feet tall.

P.S.

It was Agent Paul Landis behind Jack Ready. Any specs on Agent Landis?

Hi Chris

Are you saying Hill was 6 feet tall, or 6 feet tall including the height of the Cadillac running board? He looks so short next to Jackie.