Robert Prudhomme

Budget cuts, Vince.

Whatever, it just did not happen.

Hi Chris

This is a real puzzle you have pointed out, and well worth looking at. As you know, the M91/38 iron sights were zeroed at the factory to be accurate at 200 metres (219 yards) on level ground. To aim at a target at 100 metres, he would either have to aim a few inches low, or, instead of placing the front sight blade square in the notch of the rear sight, he would have to lower the front of the barrel until the front sight disappeared from the notch. Hard to aim when you can't see the front sight, though. Of course, the last shot was at 88 yards (80 metres).

Then, with the downward trajectory from the 6th floor, the shot would end up hitting higher than the point of aim, requiring Oswald to aim a couple of inches low to compensate.

If Robert Frazier is to be believed (which I do not), it was not possible to adjust the scope to make the rifle not hit a few inches high and to the right at 100 yards. This problem seemed to also get worse with each successive shot. As I explained before, this was more likely from a warped forestock pressing on the barrel and making shots go high and to the right. With each shot, the barrel would heat and expand more, bending the barrel further and making the shots go even further to the right and higher. This would be difficult to compensate for but, once again, shooting low (and increasingly to the left) would seem to be the only remedy.

So far, we have Oswald aiming at the middle of JFK's back to score a head shot.

Next, we have JFK going away from Oswald, down a slope and a little to the right, as viewed by Oswald. Lead to the right and shoot a little high? I give up. This is one of those things I think could be worked out by trial and error live shooting, and by repairing the rifle first, which Frazier more than likely did.

While the debate goes on endlessly about whether Oswald practiced with a rifle or not, here is something else we should be thinking about. The geography of Dallas, Texas is relatively flat. Where did Oswald practice shooting downhill at moving targets?

Well, you're right there, Pat. Despite what was presented in the autopsy evidence, there seemed to be no effort to curb the testimonies of a lot of witnesses that definitely seem to have been describing a large wound in the back of the head. In fact, in some cases, the WC lawyers almost seemed to be encouraging BOH testimony, rather than attempting to stifle it. It is interesting to note, though, that many potential BOH witnesses, such as some of the motorcycle cops directly behind the limo, were never called to testify before the WC.

Strange way to run a coverup. This is why I've always believed the assassination was brought about by people who not only wanted JFK dead, but wanted his death to be a catalyst for the invasion of Cuba and, following that, a conflict with the Russians. As much as the WC has been demonized over the years, they might have had this thing dumped in their laps and been told, "For God's sake, put a lid on this thing." And I'm sure the conspirators had lots of "insurance", just in case anyone wanted to get all righteous and expose the conspirators.

I see what you are saying now. Let me think it over for a while.

Hi John

It may have done that, ploughing its way around and then exiting, but I seriously doubt it.

What do you think of this idea? One bullet entered the back of the head, in the vicinity of the EOP (lower part of the back of the head) and God only knows what became of it, or what type of bullet it was. Entering the skull, it made a neat 1/4" hole going in but weakened the skull at that point.

A fraction of a second later, a second bullet enters at the right temple. It is either a hollow point, fragmenting, frangible or even a mercury tipped bullet. Whatever it is, it is travelling in a path that should make it exit the left side of JFK's head. But, because of the type of bullet it is, it breaks apart into tiny fragments and never does exit. However, all of this energy being absorbed by this bullet coming to a complete stop creates a tremendous wave of hydraulic pressure. This pressure was more than the water tight structure of the skull could contain, and there was a blowout at the weakest point, the tiny hole made by the first bullet.

Humes and Boswell, in interviews, both describe a wound in the rear with half of a bullet hole in it.

P.S. About that first bullet. There may very well have been shooters behind JFK shooting FMJ ammo, thinking they could accomplish the task with these. The shooter on the Knoll may have been the only one with fragmenting ammo, and he may also have had orders to shoot ONLY if it looked like the other shooters had failed.

Hello Mark

I'm still having trouble with this. Are you saying a shot from behind at z312, plus another shot from the SW of the TSBD following this? And which hairline are you referring to?

If you are saying shots from behind to the back of JFK's head, how does this account for a large wound in BOH, as seen at Parkland?

If I have misunderstood what you are saying, please be patient with me.

Andric, I'll take that question, if Mr. Josephs passes on it.

Early on in this thread, there was some incorrect information given out about hollow point bullets by Tom Purvis and Mike Williams. I am not saying we were deliberately misled; it is very possible these two simply do not have as much experience as they believe.

The most glaring error is the statement that hollow point bullets travelling through semi-liquid flesh (ie. brain or abdominal matter) will not expand, and will simply travel through and exit the other side, fully intact. As an example, they use shooting a rabbit with a low velocity .22 long rifle mushroom (hollow point) bullet.

Growing up in the farmland of SW Saskatchewan, I spent a good part of my youth attempting to rid the planet of the Richardson's Ground Squirrel (urocitellus richardsonii) or just plain "gopher" as we called them. As kids, we would trap them, snare them, drown them out of their burrows with water or do anything we could dream up to annihilate them. As we got older, we acquired .22 rifles. I had a Cooey single shot and was always jealous of a friend of mine whose father bought him a Gevelot semi-auto .22 equipped with a scope. My jealousy only grew when he showed up one day and his dad had bought him a silencer for this rifle. It was so cool! The only sound to be heard was the bolt of the semi-auto going back and forth with each shot. Of course, we really didn't need a silenced weapon to shoot gophers out in the middle of the prairie but, to a 13 year old, it was still ultimately cool.

Anyways, it wasn't very far into our gopher shooting expeditions that some older person suggested we buy .22 LR mushroom (hollow point) bullets instead of the regular .22 Long Rifle bullets we had been using. These worked very well, and some of the most effective shots, contrary to what Messrs. Williams and Purvis told you, were abdominal shots that did not touch any bone at all. Time after time, we would see a gopher with a tiny .22 calibre entrance wound in his stomach, and most of his abdominal contents eviscerated out his back through a much larger exit hole.

Sound impossible? Listen closely then.

As I have stated on this forum many times, hollow point and fragmenting bullets are more than capable of penetrating human or deer skull without "blowing up", fragmenting or even suffering any great degree of deformation. As I have stated, it is not uncommon to shoot a deer in the head with a high velocity hollow point and see a wound of entrance the same diameter as an intact bullet, and a massive exit wound.

To understand this, you have to understand what makes a hollow point bullet open up. When the HP bullet is travelling through flesh or liquid, the hollow (cavity) of the HP bullet actually fills with this liquid material. As it continues travelling through, additional liquid encountered applies pressure to the liquid already in the cavity and, with the bullet being made of soft lead, it succumbs to this pressure and begins opening outward. The more it opens, the more liquid is applying pressure to the internal cavity of the hollow point and the faster it opens; eventually opening completely outwards and, in some cases, depending on bullet construction, completely breaking apart into tiny fragments. Of course, this effect is magnified as the speed of the bullet is increased.

And that is how you can eviscerate a gopher by shooting him in the stomach with a hollow point .22 bullet.

And that is also why JFK was not shot in the head with a full metal jacket bullet travelling 2200 fps.

Hello Mark

I'm not quite sure what you mean by the government evidence supporting more than one shooter. Their latest version seems pretty straightforward; an entrance wound in the cowlick and a large exit wound on the right forward side of the head.

What part of that would suggest two shooters?

http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t578p30-the-side-mounted-scope-on-the-65-carcano

Near the bottom of the third page of this thread, on the Reopen Kennedy Case Forum (link above), I have posted a series of posts dealing with the Western Cartridge Co. 6.5x52 mm Carcano ammo Oswald allegedly used to kill JFK, its origin and some very distinct oddities about the Magic Bullet, CE 399. I also explore the possibility of the ammo being loaded with incorrect bullets for the Carcano rifle, and how this evidence may be seen on CE 399.

I wanted to post this on this forum, as well, but, unfortunately, I am still unable to cut and paste photos or links to this forum, and it was necessary to post several photos to help explain the finer technological points of my arguments.

Headline in a paper Dinkin read: "JFK Warned Against Buying Green Bananas"

Okay, that was pretty tasteless, I know. Sorry.

O'Neill traces an area at about the level of the other fellow's ears with his finger.

Do you see a large back of head wound at the level of JFK's ears?

The same people that moved the entrance wound from the EOP to the cowlick. Where were they in 1964?

"Probably nobody's. Do you really think people's memories 15 years on from an event can be trusted?"

This is an hilarious comment from you, Pat, as you are the one claiming Clint Hill's memory about the head wound has improved over the last ten years, about an event that occurred 50 years ago.

Keep 'em coming, Pat. You're keeping everyone amused, if nothing else.

Bump.

And, golly gee, Pat, what would make the motorcade stop?

Analyzing the propaganda machine of that time is one thing, nailing the assassination date down to within a week is something else altogether. It would be interesting to know how he did it.

Bumped for Pat

Amen, David.

Day-um, what kind of guy refuses a Christmas card?

I've often tried to put myself in the shoes of the Secret Service agents in the motorcade that day, which my late father always said was the fairest way to judge a man.

These agents certainly did not have the tactical training that present day agents receive and maintain. The assassins had the element of surprise, and used this advantage to the fullest. In an event that took place in a matter of a few seconds, and considering the first shot was likely fired from a weapon equipped with a suppressor and not necessarily recognizable as a rifle shot, I am not sure I would have reacted any quicker than they did.

I also do not believe the SS were part of the conspiracy, in spite of the fact Greer brought the limo to a halt after the first shot. I truly believe Greer simply screwed up. These things happen to the best of us.

Ditto, Vince.

The JFK assassination research often puts me in mind of the Tower of Babel story from the Bible. God was so concerned these primitive men had the ability to build a tower to Heaven, he sought to sabotage their work by confounding their communication between each other. Each was caused to speak a different tongue and, with no communication, work on the tower halted. I've always wondered if this was the origin of the word "babble".

Is there some authority so worried about our tower building abilities that they seek, through disinformation, to confound our abilities to communicate with each other?

No, you have NOT shown us where, in Robert Frazier's testimony, he testified there were adjustments made to the scope between the shots fired at 15 yards and the shots fired at 100 yards.

You KNOW that you got yourself in trouble by claiming such a thing was true when you most likely knew it wasn't.

I will continue to ask you to show us Frazier's testimony on this subject until you either admit you were wrong or boot me from this forum; which ever you think is expedient.

Once again, will you show the members of this forum where, in FBI SA Robert Frazier's WC testimony, he testified there were adjustments made to the scope on LHO's 6.5mm Carcano between the test shots fired at 15 yards and the test shots fired at 100 yards?

I am prepared to wait for your answer until Hell freezes over.

Pat?