Robert Mady

To FRAZIER BALL "Let's take a maker and mark down that way, that mark is BILLY LOVELADY? FRAZIER "Right" What does BALL mean mark down that way, it means point an arrow toward LOVELADY, the arrow does not touch LOVELADY because LOVELADY is far from the point of the arrow. Comprehend what BALL said. As lawyers they could be disbarred for lying or for intentionally having someone lie, but they could deceive us by what they asked and how they ask it. This is what happened with FRAZIER and LOVELADY they were asked to identify LOVELADY and they both did, the impression is they pointed to DOORMAN, in reality FRAZIER pointed at Man Shielding Eyes and by BALLS's purposeful intention it is not possible to determine where LOVELADY pointed. The impression the WC fostered is they both pointed to DOORMAN as LOVELADY. Just more WC fiction.

BALL demanded LOVELADY identify himself within Altgens #6, or did he? Mr. BALL "Draw an arrow down to that, do it in the dark" It is obvious that LOVELADY identified himself in Altgens #6 in such a manner that was and IS incomprehensible. It was imperative that LOVELADY not honestly disclose where he was located within Altgens #6, the only reason this could possibly be is that LOVELADY was not DOORMAN and he could not be made to lie and say he was. LOVELADY identifying himself within Altgens #6 would have given the game away.

Official FBI photographs, evidence of the attire LOVELADY wore on 11/22/1963 Accepted by the FBI as factual. Accepted and was unquestioned by the WC. The news media proclaimed the evidence to be factual.

HSCA interview of LOVELADY Part 1 ~3:00 into tape HSCA "would you describe the shirt you were wearing?" LOVELADY "NO!"

Mr. LOVELADY - Toward that way; everybody thought it was coming from that direction. Mr. BALL - By the time you left the steps had Mr. Truly entered the building? Mr. LOVELADY - As we left the steps I would say we were at least 15. maybe 25. steps away from the building. I looked back and I saw him and the policeman running into the building. Mr. BALL - How many steps? Mr. LOVELADY - Twenty, 25. Mr. BALL - Steps away and you looked back and saw him enter the building? Mr. LOVELADY - Yes. Mr. BALL - Then you came back. How long did you stay around the railroad tracks? Mr. LOVELADY - Oh, just a minute, maybe minute and a half. Mr. BALL - Then what did you do? Mr. LOVELADY - Came back right through that part where Mr. Campbell, Mr. Truly, and Mr. Shelley park their cars and I came back inside the building. Mr. BALL - And enter from the rear? Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, sir; sure did. Mr. BALL - You heard the shots. And how long after that was it before Gloria Calvary came up? Mr. LOVELADY - Oh, approximately 3 minutes, I would say. Mr. BALL - Three minutes is a long time. Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, it's---I say approximately; I can't say because I don't have a watch; it could. Mr. BALL - Had people started to run? Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I couldn't say because she came up to us and we was talking to her, wasn't looking that direction at that time, but when we came off the steps--see, that entrance, you have a blind side when you go down the steps. Mr. BALL - Right after you talked to Gloria, did you leave the steps and go toward the tracks? Mr. LOVELADY - Yes. Mr. BALL - Did you run or walk? Mr. LOVELADY - Medium trotting or fast walk. Mr. BALL - A fast walk? Mr. LOVELADY - Yes. Mr. BALL - How did you happen to turn around and see Truly and the policeman go into the building? Mr. LOVELADY - Somebody hollered and I looked. Mr. BALL - You turned around and looked? Mr. LOVELADY - Yes. Mr. BALL - After you ran to the railroad tracks you came back and went in the back door of the building? Mr. LOVELADY - Right. Mr. BALL - Did you go in through the docks, the wide open door or did you go in the ordinary Small door? Mr. LOVELADY - You know where we park our trucks--that door; we have a little door. Mr. BALL - That is where you went in, that little door? Mr. LOVELADY - That's right. Mr. BALL - That would be the north end of the building? Mr. LOVELADY - That would be the west end, wouldn't it? Mr. BALL - Is it the one right off Houston Street? Mr. LOVELADY - No; you are thinking about another dock. Mr. BALL - I am? Mr. LOVELADY - Yes; we have two. Mr. BALL - Do you have a dock on the west side and one on the north side of the building? Mr. LOVELADY - East, and well, it would be east and west but you enter it from the south side. Mr. BALL - Now, the south side--- Mr. LOVELADY - Elm Street is that little dead-end street. Mr. BALL - That's south. Mr. LOVELADY - I drive my truck here (indicating) but we came in from this direction; that would have to be west. Mr. BALL - You came into the building from the west side? Mr. LOVELADY - Right. Mr. BALL - Where did you go into the building? Mr. LOVELADY - Through that, those raised-up doors. Mr. BALL - Through the raised-up doors? Mr. LOVELADY - Through that double door that we in the morning when we get there we raised. There's a fire door and they have two wooden doors between it. Mr. BALL - You came in through the first floor? Mr. LOVELADY - Right. Mr. BALL - Who did you see in the first floor? Mr. LOVELADY - I saw a girl but I wouldn't swear to it it's Vickie. Mr. BALL - Who is Vickie? Mr. LOVELADY - The girl that works for Scott, Foresman. Mr. BALL - What is her full name? Mr. LOVELADY - I wouldn't know. Mr. BALL - Vickie Adams? Mr. LOVELADY - I believe so. Mr. BALL - Would you say it was Vickie you saw? Mr. LOVELADY - I couldn't swear. Mr. BALL - Where was the girl? Mr. LOVELADY - I don't remember what place she was but I remember seeing a girl as she was talking to Bill or saw Bill or something, then I went over and asked one of the guys what time it was and to see if we should continue working or what. Mr. BALL - Did you see any other people on the first floor? Mr. LOVELADY - Oh, yes; by that time there were more; a few of the guys had come in. Mr. BALL - And you stayed on the first floor then? Mr. LOVELADY - I would say 30 minutes. And one of the policemen asked me would I take them up on the sixth floor. Mr. BALL - Did you take them up there? Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, sir; I sure did.

V.R. BAKER FBI Report "After the shots she and others in the crowed moved on down toward the Triple Underpass and on returning to the building were told they could not go inside. She did not go inside until about 3:00 p.m." BETTY JEAN DRAGOO FBI Report "After President KENNEDY had been shot, I stayed outside the building, and when I tried to get back inside the door was locked." CHARLES GIVENS FBI Report "After President KENNEDY was shot I returned to the TSBD Building and was told by a Dallas policemen that I could not enter the building." GLORIA HOLT FBI Report "Following the assassinaiton of the President JFK I tried to return to work in the TSBD but was told by other employees that no one would be allowed in the building so I did not return to work that day" STELLA JACOBS FBI Report "Following the assassinaiton of the President. I tried to return to work in the TSBD but was told by other employees that no one would be allowed in the building so I did not return to work that day" JUDY JOHNSON FBI Report "After the President was shot I returned to the building but was unable to get inside as the front door of the building was locked" DELORES KOUNAS FBI Report "She stated that after standing there a few minutes she walked across the street toward the Texas School Book Depository Building but was not allowed to go in the building until about 3:00 p.m." ROBERTA PARKER FBI Report "I was not allowed back in the building until about 3:00"

Time to suspend the beliefs for analysis of evidence. Mr. BARNETT - Yes; but there was no sign they were going into the building or watching the building, so I decided I was the only one watching the building. So since this was the only fire escape and there were officers down here watching the this back door, I returned back around to the front to watch the front of the building and the fire escape. Then I decided maybe I had been wrong, so I saw the officers down here searching. Mr. LIEBELER - You mean the officers went on down toward No. 5 on your Exhibit No. 354? Mr. BARNETT - When I got to the front, some of the officers were coming back toward me, started back toward me. Mr. LIEBELER - You were still back near the intersection of Elm and Houston? Mr. BARNETT - Yes, sir; I was back where No. 8 is then. That was probably 2 1/2 minutes after the last shot was fired. About that time, my sergeant came up from this way, from the north of Houston Street and asked me to get the name of that building. I broke and ran to the front and got the name of it. There were people going in and out at that time. I ran back and told him the name of it, and about that time a construction worker ran from this southwest corner of the intersection up to me and said, "I was standing over there and saw the man in the window with the rifle." He and I and the sergeant all three broke and ran for the door. I kept the man there with me. The sergeant ran to the back to make sure it was covered. I kept the man there until they took him across the street to the courthouse. I was there until 3 o'clock, at the door there with one of the other officers, J.D. Smith. Mr. LIEBELER - You didn't actually go into the building at the time? Mr. BARNETT - No. Mr. LIEBELER - How long do you think it was from the time the last shot was fired until the time you were at the front door keeping people from going in and out? Mr. BARNETT - It was around 2 1/2 minutes. Maybe between 2 1/2 or 3 minutes. Mr. LIEBELER - From the time the last shot was fired until the time you were standing at that front door? Mr. BARNETT - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you let anybody out of the building after you got there? Mr. BARNETT - No, sir; until they were authorized. Mr. LIEBELER - Who was in a position to authorize people to come in and out? Mr. BARNETT - Well, of course, for sometime no one left except city, county, and Federal officers, and then after the people in the building were took into the small room there and questioned, they were brought to the door by a lieutenant, which I don't remember his name, but that was sometime after, and he brought them to the door and told us to let them out. Mr. LIEBELER - Now, it was possible that people could have left the building between the time the last shot was fired and the time you and officer Smith stationed yourself there? Mr. BARNETT - When I went to the door to get the name of the building, there were people going in and out then. Mr. LIEBELER - There were? Mr. BARNETT - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - Do you think it was as quickly as 2 1/2 minutes from the time the last shot was fired until the time you got to the front door? Do you think it was that quick? Mr. BARNETT - I believe it was 2 1/2 minute probably from the time I ran from the back to the front. That was probably 2 1/2 minutes. Then it took me 20 or 30 seconds more before I got to the front there. Mr. LIEBELER - So you recollection is that it was fairly short order that you got to the front door? Mr. BARNETT - Three minutes at the most. Mr. LIEBELER - Now who was the one sergeant who instructed you to post yourself there at the door, or was it somebody else? Mr. BARNETT - Sergeant Howard. Mr. LIEBELER - You remained there at the door for how long? Mr. BARNETT - Until 3 o'clock. Close to 11:30 to 3 - close to 12:30 to 3.

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Injury to JAMES TAGUE ? It would seem logical the conspirators could not contain the knowledge that a bystander was injured during the assassination, knowing how and why this information spread might say a lot about which forces were working for the American people and which forces where working for the conspirators as this knowledge forced the conspirators to alter their story of assassination. Does anyone understand how information about TAGUE'S injury became known to the American Public?

Steven, you are amazing. Could you post the report or link to information from post #6 Thanks

Cliff, your framing of the conspirators is the most suitable one that I have seen, I feel the same, it wasn't the institutions like the CIA or the Military or the FBI, it was powerful controlling components of each that bought into the plan and were in position to control their agencies under them during the aftermath. The people that did this would by necessity be outside contractors just so elites could distance themselves if the plot came unglued and people had to go down. It is evident that much planning was in place and as soon as the deed was done components of the FBI moved in to began control. The Military was prepared for the autopsy and the CIA for alteration of film.

All due respects Douglas, and that is a bunch of respect; the most important part of this interview occurs at 2:30+ MALCOLM KILDUFF claims the vehicle he was riding in was along side the TSBD when the fist rifle shot occurred. "Just as we turned by the TSBD, so I was directly under the window when we heard the first noise"

Thomas I love your side by side videos, good job to who ever did this. While someone may look at these films and determine that two witnesses taking movies of the same scene is supportive of it being true, I look at it and wonder what are the chances that two random witnesses randomly gathered in front of the TSBD watching a scene where nothing of significance seems to be occurring and they both take a few seconds of film, both capturing essentially the exact same moments in time. And what are the chances that the films just happened to showcase LOVELADY in his plaid shirt? We have seen all the footage of OSWALD in the police station, being dragged down crowded hallways, then we are presented a scene where we see the back of someones head being walked thru an office, this scene is unlike any other scene we have of OSWALD in police custody, but that's not all, it just happens to contain LOVELADY prominently displayed in his plaid shirt. What are the chances of a film existing of OSWALD not in the hallway and what are the chances of it also containing anyone from the TSBD, but it is not just anyone it is LOVELADY in his plaid shirt. A little more skepticism toward evidence may be warranted.

Robert P. I don't find anything odd about BAKER running into the TSBD on a mission to murder OSWALD in a preplanned maneuver. There was a lot of people on the street and moving into the TSBD to return to work, there was a lot of commotion. Robert, an affidavit is a persons voluntary remembrances of a situation. What they recall and feel is important to transmit is all by personal choice. There is no way that LOVELADY or anyone else could determine if a claim would have far reaching significance or none at all. What seemed important to LOVELADY while he was writing the affidavit is what is written down. What seems peculiar to me is that researchers will pick apart testimony searching for nuggets of truth and yet in the case of FRAZIER, LOVELADY and SHELLEY three witnesses located on the steps of TSBD, almost directly below the SN window and all three of these men claimed the shots came from the monument area, two of them even went to the rail yards to see what was happening and yet there is still controversy if shots came from the TSBD. If you going to find useful any part of their testimonies the most significant part might be No shots came from the TSBD! I don't understand, BAKER is seen in the Couch film running into the TSBD within moments following the assassination, are you implying this never happened or that it happened 4 or so minutes after the gunfire ended?

Vanessa, thank you for the post. I could not get the link to work, but your reference to earlier posts did. Thank you Bob Mady

Thomas, you bumped my other thread and if you search within it you will find an analysis of all three films pointing out features and anomalies that should be questionable. I can't prove definitively one way or the other, but there are some serious issues in all three films that warrant skeptical scrutinization - IMO. I would point you to one other piece of evidence, there were many people that worked in the TSBD and out of the building during the assassination, most of them filed back into the building immediately following the assassination some lingered outside for various reasons but then attempted to reenter the building and return to work only to find the building had been secured and they were prohibited to return back into the building until much later in the afternoon, apparently after the building had been searched. If LOVELADY lingered on the steps how did he get back into the building when his co-workers were prohibited from re-entering once the building had been sealed?

Robert, honestly this is too exhausting and frankly a waste of time. For what reason do you desire LOVELADY and SHELLEY to have maintained their positions on the steps until CALVERY returned and they had their conversation? What benefit to your belief of the assassination is this? You do realize that immediately following the gunfire, both DOORMAN and Man Shielding eyes can no longer be identified as remaining on the steps. This does not mean they are not there, but it is another indication that LOVELADY and SHELLEY are the two depicted in Couch film. (((And that short sleeved shirts are very rare in photographs and film taken in DP, I think I remember one other person wearing short sleeved shirt and that was NEWMAN. )))

Ever heard of common sense, Robert? None of the "extras" (including Bonnie Ray Williams and Danny Arce) spilled the beans because of "National Security"? --Tommy So in other words you have no evidence to show that the scenes could not have been staged. Is it that you feel very strongly that it could not be conceivably possible? I don't want to put words in your mouth but you have not provided any reasoning for your opinion other than it is unimaginable to you. The difference Thomas I have no doubt they could have done it, there is no technical reason or insurmountable obstacle to have prevented them from doing so. The fact that WILLIAMS and ARCE and extras never spilled the beans could be a proof of "national Security" threat wouldn't it? And again i will point to the FBI accepting as truth, a statement from LOVELADY along with photographs of his shirt, unquestioned by the WC and then publicized by the news media as factual to the American Public (maybe you missed the news articles informing us LOVELADY wore the short sleeved shirt), but then what does all that really matter, LOVELADY identified himself in Altgens #6 right? Well FRAZIER did, well not really. The WC had the oppertunity to close the door on controversy and they utterly failed. One thing the American public had been looking for was absolute proof LOVELADY was doorman and the WC utterly failed, can you possible imagine how and why this could have happened? (FYI: if you reply incompetence of BALL and or the WC, that will end our conversation)

Mr. BALL - Do you have any idea how long it was from the time you heard those three sounds or three noises until you saw Truly and Baker going into the building? Mr. SHELLEY - It would have to be 3 or 4 minutes I would say because this girl that ran back up there was down near where the car was when the President was hit. Mr. BALL - She ran back up to the door and you had still remained standing there? Mr. SHELLEY - Yes. Robert : Really? Maybe it could be intentional that the testimony is so confusing? Maybe the intention of the WC was to confound not clarify so anyone wanting to investigate would not be provided with clear unambiguous experiences to analyze. IMO the WC preferentially retained conflicts and created as many more as they could.

Mr. BALL - By the time you left the steps had Mr. Truly entered the building? Mr. LOVELADY - As we left the steps I would say we were at least 15. maybe 25. steps away from the building. I looked back and I saw him and the policeman running into the building. Mr. BALL - How many steps? Mr. LOVELADY - Twenty, 25. Mr. BALL - Steps away and you looked back and saw him enter the building? Mr. LOVELADY - Yes. Robert this experience is only possible if LOVELADY left the steps just after the gunshots and as he was walking down the extension turned back to see TRULY and BAKER enter the TSBD. The evidence is confusing when it is all weighed equally. 25 steps away from the entrance puts them at a location we see in the Couch film. Which version is true, I will go with what is supported by the most evidence, in this case film evidence trumps uncorroborated testimony. Mr. LOVELADY We went as far as the first tracks and everybody was hollering and crying and policemen started running out that way and we said we better get back into the building, so we went back into the west entrance on the back dock had that low ramp and went into the back dock back inside the building. Does this sound like they went to the rail yards 4 minutes after the shooting? Policemen started running sounds to me like the DP man that is running up the Elm extension just ahead of them, not some police that found the rail yard 4 or 5 minutes after the shooting.

Robert can you expand on post #1577, I have no idea what you mean.

Thomas, Do you know for an absolute fact that these scenes could not have been staged and how do you know this?

Thomas, that is exactly what I am saying that the film footage of 'LOVELADY' "afterwards" was of course staged. How could they keep it quiet, how about imposing a threat of National Security? Do you not find it curious that these films were not discovered by the FBI or the WC and entered into evidence, but happened to just show up unobtrusively hidden within a documentary? We will follow any evidence planted in our paths, they can lead us like sheep and do. Thomas, all of the evidence points to LOVELADY being man shielding eyes, why are you so resistant to this?

Thomas, we may be dealing with grain of the film or print, a photo expert can chime in anytime to clarify this. Also they are walking under the shade of a tree, we could be seeing some print from the shadows of leaves and branches - just a thought. Also being shaded LOVELADYS shirt will appear darker than in full light, it appeared almost white on the steps. This is the comparison that must be made. Also who was on the steps shielding his eyes in ALtgens #6 if it is not LOVELADY? Also would it be just a coincidence that man shielding eyes on the steps wore a short sleeved shirt, that LOVALADY was photographed by FBI in a short sleeved shirt and LOVELADY in Couch film appears to be wearing a short sleeved shirt? How many coincidences are necessary before we can establish that it is a trend not chance or that the evidence all points to the fact that it is LOVELADY in all three photographs wearing a short sleeved shirt (just as he claimed to the FBI to have done). Even the WC failed to definitively identify LOVELADY on the steps when they had two opportunities to do so. What is the argument against this reality? Someone named Groden claimed otherwise???