Robert Mady

Brad, this is not my expertise, so more knowledgeable members can correct as they see fit. 1) When CONNALLY provided the world with testimony from his hospital bed, TAGUE must not have been seen as an obstacle or was generally unknown. 2) The scenario in play was three shots = three hits. KENNEDY then CONNALLY then KENNEDY. 3) HOOVER wrote his report immediately and used three hit three shot scenario, which CONNALLY followed. 4) TAGUE became an insurmountable obstacle which required one entire shot. 5) SPECTRE now needed to invent the SBT to explain one shot causing wounds on KENNEDY and CONNALLY. 6) CONNALLY had already told the world his story, he could not then change it too dramatically (although he did in many details), it would be too obvious, he maintained the differences as quietly as he could. Ironically in doing so he became some sort of hero to the conspiracy crowd because of his opposing testimony, when in fact he was out on a limb because he had to tell the world a story before the story was finalized. Even though his story is the least corroborated version of events we consider him a victim/hero. Hilarious! Your conjecture that they tried to kill JBC to silence him seems very plausible, it would have kept NELLIE quiet. Interesting Brad! KILLING CONNALLY would have eliminated a potential leak. It is also possible in the moment a shooter mistook JBC for KENNEDY moving after the first rifle shot and without taking a chance fired at what he thought might be KENNEDY. - The part of this equation we would like to know is after Z-300, CONNALLYS were laying back in a prone position, they altered this to a sitting position after Z-313, was this what they were directed to do or did they react at the sound of a rifle and by doing so put themselves in a position that confused a shooter? Possible it was a connection to lone nut taking a shot, but if this was the reason and JBC was killed it would give NELLIE some reason to divulge the truth - not a good reason to shoot JBC. LBJ I don't believe was ever at risk of being injured other than having a heart attack with the stress.

Thomas, I don't feel this is the thread to rehash LOVELADY attire, if you want to post on DTL thread I would be happy to discuss the evidence with you, but I doubt there is unsown ground we have not already hashed over that might change opinions. Thomas, also as long as you post honest opinions supported by valid evidence I am happy to converse with you.

Yes, Bob.. That could be them. I'm well aware of the photo and the debates that ensued when Gerda Dunkel first produced the film frames. I offered the original handwritten affidavit to demonstrate that Lovelady originally wrote that he went back to work before crossing it out and replacing it with "took some officers inside to search the building." That's a big change. Therefore the question of what they did after the assassination is debatable and continues to be debated across several forums and websites. I myself do not want to debate it. I responded to Bob Prudhomme who is interested in this part of the story and thought he would be interested in seeing the handwritten affidavit. Especially given in the same handwritten affidavit Lovelady states that the second two shots were "right together" before crossing it out and writing "right close together." Again, a big difference. Lee, sorry I got involved, it is always a quagmire discussing these issues and it never ends and no solutions are ever agreed upon. Good luck, sorry to intervine. Bob

Thomas the conclusion can be reached based on putting their location at that location at that time which was essential to have been able to observe all the things they both claimed to experience. Their stories are corroborative with each others and supported in full with film evidence from COUCH. We can deduce which person is which by hair style and by shirt, I will again emphatically claim that LOVELADY wore a short sleeved shirt on 11/22/1963 as he claimed to the FBI in an Official Report and it is evidenced by his presence on the steps and again in the Couch film as well as FBI photographs. This is not a side bar intended to derail current discussion, it is meant to establish foundation for answering you question in full.

Earlier frame of SHELLEY and LOVELADY. The other frame was offered because it contained BAKER running into the TSBD just as described. We don't need to continue to debate every issue forever. By the way notice LOVELADY appears to be wearing a short sleeved shirt just as he claimed to the FBI. This is Not a coincidence.

Lee, maybe your not aware of visual proof of their testimonies: The fact is LOVELADY and SHELLEY walked down Elm extension immediatly following the assassination, it need not be debated. From memory, LOVELADY and or SHELLEY describe the timing, where they were on the extension, BAKER running into the building behind them and TRULY following the officer as well as the DP officer in front of them who pulled his weapon while running to the rail yards that upon seeing the desperate officer persuaded them it was dangerous and decided to return to the TSBD which they did thru the garage entrance seen in front to their right, where they crossed paths with ADAMS and STYLES who had just run down from the fourth floor to get to the rail yards, but were prohibited from entering the rail yards by a unifomed police officer ordering them AWAY from the rail yards and back into the TSBD where it was presumably safe. What more proof could you possibly require?

Did LOVELADY provide testimony to the HSCA? Does anyone have the links to a transcript or video? I do not see any info from the HSCA that LOVELADY testified.

Brad, thank you for the favorable comments. When it is fully realized the Zapruder film has been altered, a researcher may have the impulse to discard the film in its entirety. I believe this impulse is a modern phenomenon created by years of frustration in misunderstanding what is happening in the Z-film. Researchers have studiously searched for signs of the first shot and the second, they see that no one is reacting to the shots which makes no logical sense. I prefer to believe that thinking people understand KENNEDY was wounded in the back of the head and that tissue flew to the left and rear, yet we see a top-side wound with debris flying up and forward. The Zapruder film has been incomprehensible, it must be altered to the point of uselessness, at least we can fool ourselves with this logic. A Perspective The CIA or whatever particular part of the government that was responsible to alter the Z-film had a very limited time in which to do it, as Doug Horne claimed it was done within hours not days. What this should mean is that they did a limited amount of work to alter the z-film, it was not a production that could have resulted in us believing king kong was swatting at biplanes. What did they do ? IMO Primarily they changed President Kennedys head wound, the head wound was blacked out and a side of the head wound was added along with spray moving up and forward to emphasize a rearward shot having caused the wound. The limo slowing may have been a problem but so was the wounding of CONNALLY, frames were removed, we know this based on evidence presented, removing frames changed the speed of the limo, eliminated stopping or momentarily halting of the limo, as well as remove specific actions and or reactions from the film. How much could be accomplished by a handful of artists within a few hours? Time was the limiting factor to how much alteration could be done. Conclusion, if you understand the assassination, the film becomes invaluable, the wounding of KENNEDY as far as the forward head movement, blood spray and head wound can be ignored as useless artifacts of alteration. Other information that remains is vital, it shows the proper sequence of events as well as what was happening during each frame. I would wholeheartedly suggest that if the Zapruder film is confounding, that it is not the result of alterations, it is a result of misunderstanding what is happening in the images which is caused by basic misconceptions of what happened during the assassination. The Zapruder film is invaluable as absolute proof of a conspiracy and a cover-up.

Brad, you won't make me mad by posting alternate theories, as I informed you before I welcome all honest input, criticism and ideas. Brad, because of a push from you I have a website on Wordpress.com that is up and running containing a number or chapters intended for the complete novice and am procrastinating, but will any minute start a serious research paper outlining what has so far been uncovered which I plan to eventually publish in some form. One of the last major pieces of the puzzle I was hoping to clearly identify was exactly when CONNALLY was wounded, which is proving to be an interesting challenge.

Ian, it is possible that CONNALLY was targeted, the shot that wounded TAGUE may have been the result of a plan that called for a total of three rifle shots, one to cover the silenced shot. Ian, your asking me to fill in blanks that may never be possible to fill even after a tremendous amount of research, right now I am still grappling with the ramification of four shots, when they were fired and from what locations. I know it would be more convenient to present a finished scenario complete with all details, but at this time, this is just not possible (what I have been presenting is a 'work in progress'), the assassination lore has had 51 years to develop intricate schemes to try to explain some phenomenon, yet keep in mind after 51 years assassination researchers can not claim definitively when the first shot occurred or the second shot nor when TAGUE was injured or by which shot or why, nor is there any general agreement as to where the shots originated from nor is there any realistic answers as to why most testimony does not corroborate any particular scenario presented. The researcher today can't satisfactorily explain what is happening in Altgens #6 and why the SSA or bystanders are not reacting. With the four shot model we can definitively identify the first and the second shots as well as a likely time for the third and fourth shots, all supported by significant portions of testimony as well as photographic and film evidence. Simply put, I do not yet have all the answers. If you take the time to understand this model and give it a chance you may be surprised how valuable it is to explain what actually happened during the assassination. You may quickly realize it is the only model that can explain what happened in DP on 11/22/1963.

I started to make captured images of the MPI Zapruder frames so I could evaluate a better copy than the Costella frames. Has anyone noticed that both copies are in seriously poor condition? Wasn't the original put in a vault and stored for safe keeping? What have we been sold as the reason the Z-film became so damaged? What about copies, are they as damaged as the original? Why haven't copies that were sent to the CIA, FBI and SS been requested and published? What about the 100 copies of the original procured by Garrison in 1967, that he sent to Universities, why haven't any of these surfaced? Do you detect anything odd, like maybe we been hoodwinked? My family had 8 mm film in boxes stored in a musty basement for years, some reaching back almost into the 1960's, when this film was converted to DVD recently, it was amazing to see how preserved the films were, I don't remember any of them to have visible signs of damage or stress lines, the colors may have changed but not the image, they appeared they could have been recently taken and then converted. Why do we accept a seriously damaged copy of the original Zapruder film that by all reason and logic should exist in a near pristine form? We just get duped time and time again, this is why it has taken so long to understand the assassination, we have great difficulty in seeing thru the simplest bull-xxxx.

The distance between not knowing and knowing is almost non-existent yet almost insurmountable, therein lies the problem. Mark Twain: "It is easier to fool someone than to convince someone that they have been fooled' To understand the assassination one must first comprehend they have believed lies so long they believe them to be truth. We are the sum product of the State. Until you can escape its grasp, you can't be free although you can believe you are.

Jon, it seems the common opinion on this forum has been that I can be an ass to other members, I won't deny that my demeanor may appear this way. Part of my message is an intolerance to tolerate an indefensible status quo, I have continued to offer abundant evidence in support of every portion of the four shot model that has been posted. I have continually requested unbiased critiques and analysis, I welcome this process because it is the only feedback to know with absolute certainty that known evidence properly constructs the theory. Chris and Robert have done me great honor by considering there is a possibility that the theory presented has potential and took the time to analyze the possibilities. I believe we will find that truth is very close.

Jon, I don't believe most of what the CONNALYS claimed. I firmly believe they had forewarning of the assassination and at first sign of the Umbrella Man attempted to move out of harms way in choreographed movements. If CONNALLY had not been forced to make his hospital bed speech their stories would have likely conformed exactly to the WC/R version. As it was they were forced to maintain most of their lies. When CONNALLY saw the Umbrella Man, he understood the assassination attempt was happening and started shouting "No, no, no, no", he was freaking out. KENNEDY had already been wounded, but CONNALYS outcry is what caused JACKIE to turn her attention to her right, towards CONNALLY, she maintains this attention until Z-291 when she finally turns her attention to JFK to see what might be happening. The film has been altered, but there is still truths in what remains. It is ironic that I posted #149 which addresses the Z-film, prior to knowing you posted a question. Jon, in the end, only truth matters.

To those of you interested in understanding truth, please take the time to look at the following comparison. The CONNALLYS move from a static prone position with CONNALLY actually laying over the top of NELLIE in Z-314 to sitting facing forward, hunched down by Z-323. (literally about 1/2 of a second) Lets compare this to actual movement found in the Z-film, lets look at SUMMERS When SUMMERS comes into frame, he is already in the process of diving to the ground, we can see his shadow starting in Z-341 or Z-342, he is in the process of falling, he is on the ground by Z-351. Both the CONNALLYS and SUMMERS taking about 9 frames for the movements that can be seen. For those of you who are still willing to argue that the Zapruder film was not altered could you explain how two people in the prone position, one supposedly severely wounded would be capable of drastically changing their positrons starting from a static position faster than someone who was in the process of falling to the ground. Still doubt this analysis, lay down on a couch and have someone drop an object from several feet, see if you can be in a sitting position by the time the object hits the ground, now put someone underneath you and both do it. It is foolish because no one could duplicate this feat of alteration magic. Q: Was the Z-film altered? A: With absolute certainty, the Z-film was altered!

Robert P. let me show you another piece of evidnece If you look at the bullet hole in the shirt you know it is near CONNALLYS nipple. The bullet hole in the suit coat is much lower and more to the right in the image. The only two ways this can be accounted for is that the suit coat was pulled up or that CONNALLY was bending forward and the suit coat hung away from his body or a combination of both. Both of which occur after Z-324 and not before. PS One other thought, raising the right arm up will pull the coat up as well as move it to the right, again all supported after Z-324 and not before. The location of the hole in the shirt verses the location of the hole in the suit is evident that CONNALLY had to have been leaning forward when wounded, which again points to being wounded sometime after Z-324. There is significant amounts of evidence pointing to this time period as being the most probable. It is there it will be uncovered.

Robert P. I appreciate and respect the fact that you have helped to find flaws in what was proposed as a solution to how CONNALLY obtained wounds. The fact is, that any theory must stand up to the most rigorous analysis. Also that a theory should become self-evident as being truth. I am undaunted and still firmly believe that CONNALLY was wounded after the President received the fatal head wound. The problem remains to understand when CONNALLYS wounds occurred and how, the other part of this equation is in determining what wounds actually were created. I understand there is significant medical testimony and evidence, but I will refer to the FBI photograph of CONNALLYS shirt, apparently arranged haphazardly to be documented in a photograph, I do not believe the FBI could have been so utterly careless, the FBI hid something by arranging the shirt in that manner and that could only be the true location of the back wound. If they hid this they could have altered other bits of evidence that makes putting this together that much harder. Try arranging a shirt in that manner, I have and so far I have not been able to duplicate what can be seen in the photograph.

Robert P. You asked who was in the limo sitting next to JACKIE. Some possibilities 1) CONNALLY is driven to his left in front of NELLIE after Z-325, by Z-375 he begins to raise back up and then turns to look back at JFK. The figure might in part be CONNALLY. 2) If you watch when JACKIE attempts to escape from the limo, JFK does not fall into the vacated seat, he is slumped drastically to his left but can be seen remaining in this position after JACKIE has exited the limo. When JACKIE reentered the limo she might have been forced to move KENNEDY's body to the left to get back into her seat, it is possible we are seeing KENNEDY almost upright for a brief time while JACKIE acquires space in the limo. The later frames are very revealing, in that CONNALLY is continuing to move, in absolute conflict with NELLIE and CONNALLYS testimonies and claims that after NELLIE pulled CONNALLY onto her lap, he remained there motionless until somehow falling onto the limo floor while on the way to the hospital.

Robert P. I see what you mean. It seems I have more work ahead of me. I would point you to Zapruder frame Z-323 in which we see CONNALLY sitting crouched down facing forward along side NELLIE. If CONNALLY had been wounded prior to this moment and had been able to move from the prone position he was in at Z-313 why didn't NELLIE and CONNALLY include this in their testimony, in stead they both claimed CONNALLY laid on NELLIES lap barely alive and eventually unconscious. You must see that they both intentionally lied, it can be obvious that the lie hid the fact that CONNALLY had not been wounded prior to Z-323. The CONNALLYS were hiding the fact that they reacted to the assassinaiton by laying down and hiding long before anyone heard rifle shots. Also of interest now that you pointed out how close the jump seats were to the front seats, imagine CONNALLY wedging himself between NELLIE and the back of GREERS seat after Z-325, it would have taken some effort to dislodge NELLIE and force himself into such a confined space, yet this is exactly what we see happening. There is a reason this occurs, the most obvious reason is this is when he is wounded. I know the pieces do not all fit, yet this is still the closest explanation for all of the phenomenon that has been identified. The task is to uncover exactly when CONNALLY is wounded and how. Is there any photographic documentation of CONNALLYs wounds? Robert P. Thanks for significant contributions, much appreciated.

Brad M. Thank you for the support. Very much appreciated. Bob Mady

Jon, I am a pessimistic optimist, so far it is difficult to see that my perceptions have been a good thing or bad thing, it definitely can be a lonely thing although with comments like yours, a rewarding thing. Thank you. Bob Mady

TV is programed. it was no accident or fluke or luck that the Z-film was broadcast, it was a calculated release of information. Released on a talk show with less than a shred of credibility. I would like to hear a tape of the TV network calling Time-Life saying """hey we got your copy right Z-film, mind if we broadcast it nationally?"""" Time-Life """no problem, we have kept it hidden, buried in a vault for over 11 years what difference would it make."""" They probably didn't even ask where the network got it, because Time-Life knew exactly how the network got it. The true fact of the matter this film was released to 100 universities in 1967, where was the news media between 1967 and 1975? Bottom line, everything on TV is programmed. Programmed to keep us dumb and down in our place. It was not a mistake that the Z-film was broadcast, it was a planned release of information. We can discuss the reason why, but then again what does it matter, it matters more to realize it was another manipulation.

Robert P. Garrison obtained a copy of the Zapruder film and claimed to have made a hundred copies that he then distributed to Universities around the country, the film was within the grasp of the public. Groden who worked for Time Life was probably tasked to release this film to the public. His story I thought was that he just happened to find the discarded copy laying around in a photo lab, he then simply stole it. The televising of the Z-film put Groden in the position as a major spokesman for the conspiracy movement because of this miraculous deed in bringing the film to light. This set Groden and Lane as the two most influential public figures in the conspiracy movement. You probably already know that I believe both Groden and Lane to be planted in the conspiracy movement so as to control its direction, content and outcome, to basically steer dialog away from the truth.

Chris, thank you for the input, I had not considered CONNALLY being wounded at point much beyond Z-324. Thanks for thinking out of the box.

Chris D. I really appreciate you taking a close look at these frames to determine a moment of alignment. I will retake the photographs.