Robert Mady

Brad M. if you could post a link to WCD 298 or post the document I would appreciate it. The fact is the shooting happened only one way. Let me say this about alternate conspiracy theories A shot coming from the front left, this shot was created to explain the damaged windshield and the throat wound. But the throat wound is explained by a shot from the front right, originating near the end of the stockade fence, a silenced shot that did not present the SSA with a reason to take action. The line of sight is clear from the corner of the fence to JFK, also two photographs both captured an anomaly that can not be explained in this area at the time of the first shot, around Z-189. Further evidence that this silenced shot came from this direction is the fact that HILL, READY, LANDIS, BENNETT and HICKEY simultaneously all looked forward toward this area immediately following Z-189, they looked there until at least Z-212. None of the MC police seemed to take notice of any noise, nor did all of the SSA react by looking nor did any of the spectators seen in Z-film or Altgens #6. A shot thru the windshield implicates the SSA in the conspiracy, in that GREER and KELLERMAN would have noticed and should have taken action. It also implicates O'DONNEL and POWERS who riding in the QM would have heard the shot, but did nothing. A long distance shot thru the windshield to inflict the throat wound would have too many problems, glare, reflection, deflection, GREER and or CONNALLY obstructing the path, KENNEDY being out of position. The shot would have too many variables, do you think 'they' would have chanced it? As Robert P. has so effectively explained, there is no possible connection between the throat wound and the back wound, so where did the bullet go? Why chance a long distance shot when they needed to just wait until the limo was half way down Elm adjacent to the pergola and take a shot that was a very short distance? More than 4 shots is an attempt to explain the windshield, the back wound, three wounds on CONNALLY, wounds created on KENNEDY, false autopsy photographs, false autopsy report, false autopsy x-rays, bullets found in the limo, bullet marks on the curb, on the sewer and in the grass, we have to understand that much of this evidence is not real. The conspirators removed evidence, they altered evidence and they created evidence, it is not all real and we should not feel obligated to explain everything that has been presented to us as authentic. Brad, no previous theory explains the lack of reactions from SSA or spectators until after the rifle shot at Z-313, the fact that the first shot was silenced and the second shot was a rifle shot at Z-313 explains it all. The fact that the majority of testimonies claim or can be read to reveal the first shot heard was at Z-313 which includes the descriptions of KENNEDYS reaction to being shot was not at Z-189 but at Z-313 when he visibly moved in reaction to being shot and then visibly fell into his seat when the second rifle shot sounded as JACKIE released her grip on him to escape the gunfire. A huge problem is a complete misunderstanding of what the testimonies mean.

Chris, there must be a workable solution. All of the evidence points to 4 shots, 1 of which does all the damage to CONNALLY and this shot occurring after the fatal head wound to President KENNEDY. It would be easy to claim CONNALLY was wounded by two bullets, but then we would have to reexamine the validity of TAGUE and the bullet striking the curb or invent more silent shots and snipers. Also is it a fact that CONNALLY received three wounds, then exactly when did this occur? There is no other moment within the Zapruder film where the three wounds are so closely aligned. This must be kept in mind, also the fact that the CONNALLYS moved without hindrance until after Z-324 points to CONNALLY not being wounded until after the fatal head shot. It is there, it can be found. Please keep in mind the wound was significantly lower than his wrist. His arm need not be resting on his leg, it could have been snugged up against his chest. I appreciate you looking at the Z-film to identify a likely frame where the wounds may have occurred. We are still missing something. It will be obvious when we find it.

Brad M. simple answer no, I am not willing to compromise. Am I willing to listen to arguments contrary to the four shot model, absolutely. Am I willing to amend the model to encompass compelling evidence, absolutely. The problem with dealing with all of the fringe conspiracy theories is that they were developed to explain phenomenon that was misunderstood or worse, false evidence that was incorporated into assassination lore. These fringe ideas should fall away, they are not needed to explain what happened on 11/22/1963. Why not understand how the assassination really worked before attempts are made to wedge probable fallacies into the model?

Robert P. the shot to the throat with a poisoned pellet was not amateurish, this shot most likely would have resulted in KENNEDYS death - IMO The other shots were carefully taken so as not to injure anyone else in the limo. They did not just spray bullets trying to take out a target, they were calculated and precise. The fact that the DPD, the FBI and the media were prepared to control the outcome and began the cover-up immediately indicates a high level of planning and sophistication. I would doubt these sectors of society would have risked everything to rally behind amateurs. All this said, it is still most important to thoroughly understand the mechanics of the assassination before jumping to wild speculations. Once it becomes accepted that the WC/R and conspiracy theories have been wrong the focus of investigation will shift, first of all away from OSWALD to the real culprits, CIA, FBI, Military, LBJ, DPD, big oil...

Robert, I doubt we can assume CONNALLY was wounded by accident. It is possible that he was targeted. Would it not help to sell a lone nut to have shot at more than just the President? We must assume that CONNALLY was targeted while looking for evidence he was not specifically targeted. Once we understand exactly where the shooters where located, it might shed more light on what happened.

How does any of this help us figure out who killed JFK? --Tommy Tommy, I have not concerned myself with determining who pulled the triggers. That is up to you and others to uncover. My goal was to understand the mechanics of the assassination, by doing so it became obvious that the WC/R and all conspiracy theories were wrong. It also became apparent that President KENNEDY was murdered by snipers arranged near the monument area, this means all of the evidence concerning the TSBD had been created or witnesses mistaken, hence a cover-up. By discovering the true nature of the assassination it becomes real that President KENNEDY was murderd as a result of a conspiracy and that the cover-up has been a concerted effort by many sectors within the government as well as their tools in the media. There is no longer cause for doubt that KENNEDY was murdered in a coup.

Brad M. I find no good reason to believe analysis generated by the government. The assassination is simple to understand. Shot 1 occurred around Z-189 - by a silenced weapon - near the end of the picket fence, wounded KENNEDY in the throat - no one reacted to the unrecognizable threat. Shot 2 occurred around Z-313 - by a rifle near the monument - wounded KENNEDY in the head. Shot 3 occurred around Z-324 - by a rifle near the monument - wounds CONNALLY or wounds TAGUE. Shot 4 occurred following Z-324 - by a rifle near the monument - wounds either CONNALLY or wounds TAGUE. I don't know if CONNALLY was a target or if he was mistaken in the moment to be KENNEDY. Forget what the government told us, it is essentially all a lie.

JBC: "I did not see the President at any time either after the first, second, or third shots, but I assumed always that it was he who was hit and no one else. I immediately, when I was hit, I said, "Oh, no, no, no." And then I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all." Nellie, when she pulled me over into her lap----" ps Just have to add that NELLIE claimed at the time she pulled CONNALLY onto her lap she was looking for any perceptible sign of life, wonder if she meant any sign of a soul or some remnant of sanity or maybe what NELLIE meant to say is she looked for a sign of life not after CONNALLY laid back on top of her but after CONNALLY had been driven to the floor of the limo by the shot. What do you think? NELLIE: "Then very soon there was the second shot that hit John. As the first shot was hit, and I turned to look at the same time, I recall John saying, "Oh, no, no, no." Then there was a second shot, and it hit John, and as he recoiled to the right, just crumpled like a wounded animal to the right, he said, "My God, they are going to kill us all." I never again----" Mrs. KENNEDY. "You know, there is always noise in a motorcade and there are always motorcycles, besides us, a lot of them backfiring. So I was looking to the left. I guess there was a noise, but it didn't seem like any different noise really because there is so much noise, motorcycles and things. But then suddenly Governor Connally was yelling, "Oh, no, no, no." CONNALLY claimed he was hit by the second rifle shot, then cried "Oh, no, no, no". NELLIE claimed CONNALLY cried "Oh, no, no, no" prior to the second shot. JACKIE claimed CONNALLY cried "Oh, no, no, no" prior to hearing any shots. And yet, researchers preferentially take CONNALLY and NELLIES version of the assassination as being closer to the truth then JACKIES experience. Now we know JACKIE was correct, there were no rifle shots prior to the shot that caused the fatal head wound to KENNEDY, but there was a silenced shot around Z-189 that wounded President KENNEDY in the throat that JACKIE did not notice. You can know that JACKIE is correct in that she requested CLINT HILL to remain her body guard for a period of time following the assassination, can you believe she would have requested CLINT HILL if she had felt that HILL had not reacted immediately at the first sign of trouble to protect her and her husband? HILL started to the limo at about Z-300, he got to the limo within a few seconds. Do you suppose HILL and JACKIE talked about the day of the assassination, with the official story of three shots over 6 to 9 seconds, what do you suppose HILL claimed he did for those 6 to 9 seconds before coming to her aid. Or do you suppose HILL said JAKIE I didn't hear the first shot, we didn't know what the noise was or that it indicated danger, I reacted when CONNALLY laid back on top of NELLIE and as I was running to catch the limo President KENNEDY was hit in the head, there is nothing we could have done.

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Once realized that CONNALLY is wounded after the fatal head wound to Our President, all of JBC's and NELLIES testimony become suspect as do their actions during the assassination. Actions that show pre-knowledge 1) The limo proceeded down Elm Street, as it neared the signal man with the umbrella, NELLIE and CONNALLY simultaneously turn to their right, NELLIE leans back against the limo door clearing an unobstructed space for CONNALLY to lay back into, CONNALLY scoots forward and then turns, the scooting causes his arm to jerk as he lifts off the seat to get into position to turn. 2) CONNALLY lays straight back, on top of NELLIE, unassisted, if NELLIE had not repositioned herself against the limo door, CONNALLY could not have layed back, he would have come into contact with NELLIE's shoulder or body as she would have been sitting straight forward in her seat. 3) CONNALLY initially claimed NELLIE conversed with the President just a moment prior to the sound of gunfire, this conversation was intended to squelch inquiry into why NELLIE had turned in her seat, since no inquiry arose, the timing of the conversation began to move from Elm to Houston to Main, distancing it from the necessity to explain NELLIES actions. 4) NELLIE claimed to know CONNALLY was struck by the second bullet, yet she pays very little attention to him, see looks toward the umbrella man @z-239-254 then the President @z-255-271 and then toward KELLERMAN @z-271-278 then back to the President @z-279-290, she does not take notice of CONNALLY until he is almost on her lap. Testimony that illustrated complicity in the cover-up 1) NELLIE and CONNALLY claimed to hear the first rifle shot, NELLIE the second, yet no one in Z-film or Altgens #6 react to sound of any gunfire until after Z-313 2) CONNALLY claimed to the world he turned and could see the President was wounded, afterwards he ignored this claim and proclaimed thereafter he did not see the President wounded. Although we can clearly see in the Z-film @Z-264-289, CONNALLY turns and for some time is seen to look directly toward the President and or JACKIE. Of note: CONNALLY claimed to turn and see the President was wounded prior to himself being wounded. 3) NELLIE and CONNALLY claim CONNALLY was stunned by the shot and had to be assisted to lay down, this is not evident in the Z-film, it is clear CONNALLY is fully conscious and lays back of his own volition. 4) NELLIE claimed CONNALLY laid as if dead on her lap, she claimed to look for some perceptible sign of life, yet we see them both spring from the prone position to face forward in a blink of an eye. 5) NELLIE claimed CONNALLY fell to the floor during the trip to the hospital when the limo took a sharp corner, yet we see CONNALLY be driven to the floor while still on Elm street. 6) NELLIE and CONNALLY appear to be the only two witnesses captured in film or photograph that were aware of supposedly the first two gunshots and reacted to them...does this really seem possible? 7) NELLIE sat silent while supposedly two rifle shots had occurred and the President wounded and her husband supposedly severely wounded as well.

Robert P. Eureka : Now you see

Jon, LOL Only if during the movie the CONNALLY character is found to be complicit in the crime of conspiracy. And if there is a possibility for an Oscar.

I tried not to move the stick between taking the two photographs A problem with a shot occurring when CONNALLY is in this position is the wounds can not ALL be aligned.

Robert P. Please address my questions from post #91.

Robert P. by leaning forward, then rotating torso to the left, lowers the trajectory while moving it forward. The stick I am holding lines up with the leg wound the wrist wound and approximately nipple and side wound. You can see the end of the stick and it's trajectory. I can assure you that when sitting upright and twisted to the left it points back toward the upper floors of the TSBD or DelTex, when I lean forward and slightly rotate my body to the left it points to the monument area.

Robert P. try this exercise, if possible put your left hand under you right armpit, point your index finger at the trajectory of the incoming bullet. Now lean forward. Now sway to the left slightly Now twist your body tucking your right arm into your lap aligning the wounds. Do you see how the incoming trajectory moves forward and down? Can this movement be enough to explain how a shot from the monument area could have caused the wounds on CONNALLY?

Robert P. I agree with you with one exception, not only is CONNALLY leaning forward he is twisting his torso to his left, this motion lowers the trajectory significantly, I believe there is a solution in this motion that will provide proof the shot could have come from the monument area. Robert let me ask you at exactly what point in the Zapruder film is CONNALLY in alignment to have received all the wounds from a single bullet? And if this moment is prior to Z-324, how do you explain the impossibly rapid movements made by the CONNALLYS from Z-313 to Z-324? How do you explain CONNALLY still grasping his hat at Z-325? How do you explain the action of CONNALLY diving to his left, forcing his body between NELLIE and the front seat, and settling to the floor of the limo after Z-324? What accounts for CONNALLYS action IF it is NOT caused by the impact from a bullet? Please keep in mind that those closest to the limo claimed the first shot heard caused the fatal head wound, there should be no doubt that two additional rifle shots followed, it follows that one of these later shots was responsible for wounding CONNALLY. We have been so indoctrinated into believing CONNALLY was wounded sometime around Z-230 that evidence following Z-313 is totally being ignored. Other than a trajectory that will satisfy CONNALLYS wound, is there one shred of evidence a shot originated from the TSBD or DelTex? Do you not understand that in order to make this scenario work it requires creating possibilities without the support of any actual evidence. Whereas there is overwhelming and significant evidence for all of the shots having originated from the monument area. The solution to the assassination relies on determining how CONNALLY was wounded by a shot from the monument area, this entails identifying how he was situated at the moment of being wounded.

Robert P. I understand what you are saying. Could you analyze the following scenario please. CONNALLY is leaning forward, he is also twisted, with his left arm tucked in front of his body. The act of twisting to his left at the same time bending forward aligns his body allowing the shot from the side to follow you stated trajectory. The twisting is the key, he is cuddled as close to NELLIE as possible, his upper body is turned as much a possible to get next to NELLIE. If you can imagine where the shot entered using your body and the trajectory, lean forward, now lean to the left at the same time twisting your torso to the left.

Robert / Chris I was thinking the pergola that is nearer the TSBD - west side, but my original thought was that all three rifle shots originated from pergola near ZAPRUDER, your description of the wound seems to support this location. Because if CONNALLY is facing forward a shot from the side will follow the path you described, would it not? The problem I have is when is CONNALLY shot, I just reread TAGUE and he believes he was wounded after the second shot, this could have been the shot at Z-325, meaning CONNALLY ducked down further and was struck by the last bullet. This could account for wrist not being in proper position at Z-324. Robert, there is no testimonial evidence that shots came from the DelTex, even by those located on the corner of Elm and Huston. Has all testimony been wiped clean? BAKER is a stooge, set-up to murder OSWALD, he did not hear shots coming from the roof, this is a lie - IMO I doubt shooters would have been located in buildings, this would have posed some enormous problems in detection and escape. The area behind the monuments offers the easiest egress. Remember this is also where the tramps were found...diversion?

Robert P. thank you. 1) there must be another explanation for where the bullet originated from, there is zero evidence a shot came from TSBD western windows, IMO there is zero credible evidence any shots came from the TSBD. 2) could the shot that wounded CONNALLY have originated from the monument area, the other pergola, to the rear of the limo?

Robert P. yes I am, would you enlighten me please? I have no doubt that CONNALLY is wounded after KENNEDY receives the fatal head wound, although looking at the MPI frames presents a major problem in how the wrist is injured. Would the wound have to be on CONNALLYS middle to front side to have followed the contour of his rib? I definitely need to know more about CONNALLYS wounds.

Chris / Robert P, let me ask a question, is it possible the bullet that hit CONNALLY may have entered the wrist first then thru his side then into his leg?

Stephen Roy, please delete post #73 Thank you

Chris I see what you mean.

Chris, I don't know what the 'angle of declination' was for the wound incurred on CONNALLY. I have my doubts that it can be known for certain, I base this on the fact that the conspirators seemed to be able to alter evidence as needed. I know this is a broad statement but it can be backed up by volumes of examples. ('they' altered the wounds on KENNEDY they certainly could alter the location of wounds on CONNALLY). A clue that something was amiss is evident in the FBI display of CONNALLYS shirt. The FBI is hiding something in this photograph, the only thing important to hide is the location of the bullet hole. The bullet hole or entrance wound may be lower than we think and or more on CONNALLYS side than back. Chris please look at Z-324 at how CONNALLY is bent forward, note he also has tucked in his right arm, his body is likely slightly twisted to his left as well as leaning toward NELLIE. A shot from the monument area would have hit him in the back or more on his side, passed thru his chest, caused the wounds on his right wrist and left leg. In short this IS the only time CONNALLY is aligned so that a single bullet could cause all of the wounds he incurred. Also of note at Z-324 CONNALLY is still holding onto his hat with his right hand... Also of note, neither NELLIE nor CONNALLY claimed to have moved following the fatal head wound, the fact that CONNALLYS are sitting hunched down at Z-324 should not have been possible based on both of their testimonies. Plus as I have demonstrated their movements from Z-313 prone positions to sitting up at Z-324 is absolutely impossible. It is verified within the z-film NELLIE and CONNALLY both lied about what transpired during the assassination.