Antti Hynonen

Antti Hynonen I was inspired by Oliver Stone's movie "JFK" in 1991, ever since I've been interested in the assassination of JFK. Out of mere interest, I have researched the issue as a hobby for just less than two years, focusing on witness statements including a lot of the Warren Commission material (and it's many flaws). My goal has been to keep up-to-date on new developments and theories and to participate in discussions when appropriate. I have particularly enjoyed the discussions on this site and John Simkin's Spartacus.schoolnet site, which is probably the best web-site on the issue.

Thanks for your replies Ryan. As I recall there were other simulation tests done to try and replicate "Oswald". I believe some were done by the FBI. Just curious, do you (or anyone else) know of other tests? I keep hearing arguments by Lone Nutters that some set of simulated tests, in fact, showed that the shots the WC (not Water Closet) claimed Oswald did could be replicated with out problems. Any ideas about that? Antti

Mr. Ryan Crowe: Thank you for you postings. I have been waiting for a rifle/ballistics expert to join the forum. I am probably not using the accurate terminology, please accept my apologies in advance. I would like to ask you the following: 1.) Assuming you have seen the Zapruder film and at least some of the autopsy photos of President Kennedy; do you believe it is possible that the large head wound could have been caused by the MC carbine bullets as suggested by the WC? 2.) Assuming the Magic or Ridiculous bullet theory were in fact true (it's not!) could the MC bullet have had enough velocity and thrust to penetrate through all the wounds as alleged by the WC? 3.) How close to "Lee Oswalds" performance did the expert marksmen get to, when simulating his presumed shots? 4.) Did the simulation take place under similar circumstances (angle, speed of target etc.) and using a similar weapon and poorly aligned scope? Thank you! Antti Hynonen

John, What a well written, concise reply. IMO, in particular the last three sentences sum up the broad view of what happened. Not many are able to put their thoughts into words in a manner such as you do. Ever so happy to have come across this forum! Antti Hynonen

Amos Euins testified that the man he saw in the window of the TSBD on 11/22/1963 had a (white) bald spot on the top of his head. He could not say whether the man was negro or white. I recall that the Mexico Oswald, thought to be Saul Sage had a (white) bald spot on his head. I know many other men have bald spots too, however, this could be an eye witness tying the Mexico Oswald to the TSBD on 11/22/63. As Euins an a DPD officer were returning to the TSBD a "construction worker" also told Euins and the DPD officer, that a man with a bald spot on his head had just fled the TSBD via the rear exit. Any background information on Saul Sage? Was he a good shot? This is Specter questioning Amos Euins: Mr. SPECTER. What did you see in the building? Mr. EUINS. I seen a bald spot on this man's head, trying to look out the window. He had a bald spot on his head. I was looking at the bald spot. I could see his hand, you know the rifle laying across in his hand. And I could see his hand sticking out on the trigger part. And after he got through, he just pulled it back in the window. ------ Mr. SPECTER. All right. Let me ask you about a couple of specific things here, Amos. In the statement you say here that he was a white man. By reading the statement, does that refresh your memory as to whether he was a white man or not? Mr. EUINS. No, sir; I told the man that I could see a white spot on his head, but I didn't actually say it was a white man. I said I couldn't tell. But I saw a white spot in his head. Mr. SPECTER. Your best recollection at this moment is you still don't know whether he was a white man or a Negro? All you can say is that you saw a white spot on his head? Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir. Antti Hynönen

John Simkin has kindly posted a series of photos related to the case. One set of photos is of Lee Oswald and his immediate family. Many times I have come accross the Lee Oswald photo(s) taken in Mexico City. As I recall these photos were taken by officials of the Cuban or Russian Embassy in Mexico City. Does anyone have an idea of who this Lee Oswald impersonator is? Possibly a CIA agent? --------------- Far fetched, but it would be interesting to find out a little more about Robert. Robert E. Lee Oswald Jr. => Oswald, an ex marine who could shoot? Oswald who could drive. A man who was in the USA and Texas while LHO was in Minsk. He was not impersonating his brother, was he? Among the photos are a few photos of Robert. Not exactly an exact Lee Oswald look-alike, but... Does anyone have any details of Robert's height, military records, shooting skills? Just curious. Antti

Anderson 109: Interesting theory. You may have something there - then again maybe not. Based on what I have read and heard, I would consider Lee Oswald to be of at least average intellect (probably above average). Have you taken your idea further? If your theory is realistic and if you have given it more thought, maybe you can comment on the questions below? I came up with the following issues as I put myself in Lee Oswald's shoes in 1963, just before I am about to assasinate the US President: - How will I successfully escape the scene and then be able to travel to the USSR to live happily? I love my children (and wife?), how will they be able to join me there safely after what I have done? - Do my Russian comrades really want to "harbor" me, the killer of a US President who actually was thought to have been "soft on communism"? - I was already once accepted into Russia, given permission to work and reside there. I didn't like it then. Why will I like it if I return? Thanks. Antti

Tony, Just to recap. Your claim is then that the Cuban and Mafioso theory is all part of a fabricated story, which was set up by the CIA. The CIA also framed individuals and evidence here and there to give their fabricated story more credibility. As I recall, your claim is that KGB officers infiltrated into the FBI were behind the Kennedy assassination. This would mean that the CIA and FBI worked together on this. The CIA planting false evidence, the FBI involved in the killing itself. If this is the case, then the planning of the assassination and set-up started earlier in 1963, since a lot of the evidence and activities related to the Cuban/Mafioso theories takes place in the summer of 1963 in New Orleans. In your opinion, who were the masterminds behind the assassination? The trigger-men are less significant to me. Thanks. Antti

No distributors = pretty much no one is going to see them! Free country? http://www.thecommissiononline.com/menu.htm Movie about Warren Commission; ready for release. Won't be seen, no distributor. ------------------ http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php Michael Moore's Farenheit 9/11, no distributor yet. Won't be seen until someone signs the contract. Does anybody here have connections or money to help? The websites above have contact information on how you can help get these shows seen in the US. ------------------ The truth shall set you free.

I read the following, which is an unpublished manuscript written by the late Roger Craig: http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/WTKaP.html In it Roger Craig mentions that Jim Garrison showed him a picture of a man who was in Dealey Plaza on November 22nd 1963 at the time of the assassination. Craig says he identified the man as the same man who drove the Rambler station wagon, which he claims Lee jumped into. Quote from the article refrenced above: " I had several meetings with Jim Garrison. He showed me numerous pictures taken in Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963. Among them was a picture of a Latin male. I recognized him as being the same man I had seen driving the Rambler station wagon in which I had seen Oswald leave the Book Depository area. I was surprised and I asked Jim who the man was. Jim did not know but he did say this man was arrested in Dealey Plaza immediately after the assassination but was released by Dallas Police because he could not speak English! This was, to me, highly unusual. In my experience as a police officer I had never known of a person (or prisoner) being released because of a language barrier. Interpreters were, of course, always available." Does anyone know who this latin man is that Craig identified? Does anyone have any other interesting comments relating to R. Craig? Thanks. Antti

Larry, Lee, Below is a link to a set of photos that I used on another thread today. So far this photo is the best I've seen from the area immediately under the overpass right after the shots were fired. I don't know if this helps greatly. I've tried enlarging the photo, and do not see any cars under the Elm section of the underpass. Antti http://dsc.discovery.com/anthology/unsolve...lery_zoom6.html

Here are some answers to your questions, I don't think these are necessarily "the first times this information was made public" but anyhow, let this serve as a starting point. 1.) On Nov. 8th, 1963 LBJ announces that JFK and entourage will visit Dallas on Nov. 22nd 1963 (See Warren Report Chapter II) Source: http://www.jfk-fr.com/en/bio_119.php 2.) Apparently Monday evening, Nov. 18th 1963 it was known. On Nov. 19th 1963 it was printed wrong again in the Dallas Morning News, but it was printed correctly elsewhere. Source: http://home.flash.net/~dperry2/mtrcade.html 3.) My view is, it was changed just less than a week before Nov. 22, 1963. The only major change (as far as I know) was the little zig zag from Main, to Houston and then Elm. Funny that the "who changed the route and why" is not clearly stated anywhere. My guess is it probably was Earle Cabell who may have changed it so more people could see JFK closer up along Dealey Plaza. Of ourse someone with an alternative motive may have "sold" Earle the more pleasant reason for the change. Below is a link to the discovery channel and some 11/22/63 Kennedy, Dallas photos. There are several interesting comments in the articles below. See all 8? photos and comments! The link is to the first and click to go to the next. Most interestingly, according to this site Kennedy had discussed security issues just prior to arriving in Dallas, and mentioned that it would be easy to kill the President using a rifle and scope to assassinate him from a high building. here's a quote: "Before leaving the hotel for Air Force One, the president had a discussion with his wife and special assistant Kenneth O'Donnell, who had arranged the two-day trip to Texas along with Gov. Connally and Vice President Johnson, about the inherent risks of presidential public appearances. Kennedy commented to O'Donnell that "if anybody really wanted to shoot the president of the United States, it was not a very difficult job — all one has to do is get in a high building someday with a telescopic rifle, and there would be nothing anybody could do to defend against such an attempt." ...and the link http://dsc.discovery.com/anthology/unsolve...lery_zoom2.html

Now, this regarding the rifles may be pretty evident to all... ...however, I offer my opinion and believe me, I'm not a rifle expert. A quick look at the three rifles posted by Bernice and comparing them to the rifle carried out by Lt. Day, I would say that Day is carying the "Archives" rifle. The scope and bolt sticking out would support this. According to the photos available definitely not the DPD rifle. I wonder how this ties in with the rifle theories and photos of the other rifles around. Antti

Larry; I have to agree with your last statement. Although I haven't analysed any of the films in depth, I have seen (all??) of them several times. I also seriously doubt that each film and just about each photo has been doctored with. I do agree that some frames may have been deleted in the Zapruder film due to skips and jumps and unnatural movements etc. Antti Hynönen

Gordon Arnold In 1978 Gordon Arnold first claimed to be a witness to the assassination of John F. Kennedy in Dealey Plaza. He elaborated on his claims in the 1988 documentary The Men Who Killed Kennedy. Arnold died in 1997 at age 56.

Excerpts from the Warren Commission hearing with Michael Paine: Has anyone analysed more of Michael Paine's statements? I wonder if there are more little omissions to the WC or additions that have come about later... Any comments? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr. DULLES - Where was Marina staying at this time? Mr. PAINE - Berry Street. Mr. DULLES - Berry Street in Dallas. Mr. LIEBELER - Berry Street or would it be Neely Street? Mr. PAINE - Neely Street. So this was the first time I saw them. I had to go over, he didn't drive a car and I had to go over, and pick him up in my car and bring him back to the house. So I went over to Neely Street and saw them. Marina took about half an hour to pack all the things for Junie. Meanwhile I was talking to Lee at their house there. Mr. LIEBELER - Would you tell us about that conversation? Mr. PAINE - I asked him what he was doing, his job, and he showed me a picture on the wall, which was a piece of newspaper, I think--that is beside the point. I asked him about Russia, what he liked about. Mr. DULLES - Could we get that picture? Mr. PAINE - I think it was beside the point. It was a piece of newspaper showing a fashion ad, I think. I think his job was-- Continued... Mr. LIEBELER - Did you think there was more than one tent pole in the package or just one tent pole? Mr. PAINE - As I say, I moved it several times, and I think I thought progressively each time. I moved it twice. It had three occasions. And the first one was an iron, thought of an iron pipe and then I have drawn, I drew yesterday, a picture of the thing I had in mind. Then in order to fill out the package I had to add another object to it and there I added again I was thinking of camping equipment, and I added a folding shovel such as I had seen in the Army, a little spade where the blade folds back over the handle. This has the trouble that this blade was too symmetrical I disposed to the handle and to fit the package the blade had to be off center, eccentric to the handle. Also, I had my vision of the pipe. It had an iron pipe about 30 inches long with a short section of pipe going off 45 degrees. No words here, it just happened that I did have this image in my mind of trying to fill up that package in the back burner of my mind. Mr. LIEBELER - The witness yesterday did draw a picture of what he visualized as being in the blanket, and I will offer it in evidence later on in the hearing. How long was this package in your estimation? Mr. PAINE - Well, yesterday we measured the distance that I indicated with my hand, I think it came to 37 inches. Mr. LIEBELER - Approximately how thick would you say it was? Mr. PAINE - I picked it up each time and I put it in a position and then I would recover it from that position, so each time I moved it with the same position with my hands in the same position. My right hand, the thumb and forefinger could go around the pipe, and my left hand grabbed something which was an inch and a half inside the blanket or something thick. Mr. LIEBELER - Did it occur to you at that time that there was a rifle in the package? Mr. PAINE - That did not occur to me. Mr. LIEBELER - You never at any time looked inside the package? Mr. PAINE - That is correct. I could easily have felt the package but I was aware that of respecting his privacy of his possessions. Mr. LIEBELER - Were you subsequently advised of the probability or the possibility that there had been a rifle wrapped in that package? Mr. PAINE - When I arrived on Friday afternoon we went into the garage, I think Ruth, Marina and the policeman, and I am not sure it was the first time, but there we saw this blanket was on the floor below the bandsaw-- (At this point Representative Ford entered the hearing room.) Mr. PAINE - And a rifle was mentioned and then it rang a bell, the rifle answered, fitted the package that I had been trying to fit these unsuccessfully. It had never resolved itself, this shovel and pipe didn't fit in there. Mr. LIEBELER - And it seemed to you likely that there had in fact been a rifle in the package? Mr. PAINE - That answered it. Continued... Mr. PAINE - I had the impression--yes, it was. The whole package was stiff. There was no shaking of the parts, and I had the impression it was wrapped with about two strings. Mr. LIEBELER - I now show you Commission Exhibit 139, which is a rifle that was found in the Texas School Book Depository Building, and ask you if you at any time ever saw this rifle prior to November 22, 1963? Mr. PAINE - I did not, ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A few questions for Mr. Paine: So you moved around the blanket several times that was 37 inches long that seemed to have one 30 inch iron tent pole in it, and before the assassination it never occurred to you it might well be the rifle you had seen Lee holding in a picture at the Neely Street apartment on April 2nd of 1963? When questioned by the WC you bring up a newspaper clipping that Lee showed you, but fail to mention the critical "backyard photo"? Fairly precise description of the package and of how he picked it up wouldn't you say? Of course no idea it could be a rifle, of course not? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The below is from: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/garage.htm The Assassin's Wife and the Quaker Woman Who Took Her In By Thomas Mallon [Originally published in The New Yorker, and reprinted by permission of Thomas Mallon. Excerpted from the book Mrs. Paine's Garage, Pantheon Press, a division of Random House] "It was not until a 1993 interview, for a CBS documentary broadcast around the thirtieth anniversary of J.F.K.'s assassination, that Michael told a reporter, rather casually: Obviously [Oswald] liked guns. I went one afternoon to pick him up, went upstairs, and I think the first thing he did, practically, was pick up this photograph of himself — eight by ten — holding his rifle there and some papers. I was a little startled. I suppose he was looking for a big revolution. The statement went unremarked upon, though Michael Paine was admitting something he had never told either the Warren Commission or his wife: that, on the first evening he met Oswald, at the apartment on Neely Street, he discovered that Lee had a rifle; Lee had shown Michael the picture of himself brandishing it in one hand while holding two Communist newspapers in the other. Did Michael deliberately withhold this information from the commission? "No, no," Ruth says; he's "far too honest" for that. She concedes that "he should have brought it up" in 1964, and laughs uneasily about how it would have been "nice" for him to tell her before November 22, 1963. But "probably he didn't consider it very important." She claims that, in the several years since someone told her about this interview, she cannot remember ever asking Michael about the incident, though they were in communication. The assassination, she says, has always been doubly hard to deal with, intertwined as it was "with the difficulties in my marriage, and the separation." No harsh word about Michael ever escapes her, not even when she's persuaded to discuss this very worst conjunction of the historical and the personal. When I visited Michael Paine, in August of 2000, at his home, in Boxborough, Massachusetts, he was quite sure about having seen the photograph of Oswald in April of 1963, but he says that he didn't remember seeing it until it was put in front of him, in 1993. In any case, he says, it was only after the assassination that he realized that his Quaker wife was "so allergic" to guns that "she would have forbidden [Oswald] to have the rifle in the house." " ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where were we in 1993? Oh yes Oliver Stones movie had caused a little something of a stir, documents were released..... Maybe some witnesses needed to be reminded of what they had said in the past? Maybe a few statements had to be added like Michael Paine seeing the photo on Neely Street on April 2nd 1963? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Allan: Surely you have looked into this event in greater detail than I have, no question about that. Just as an additional question to you; Does it seem to you that there are suspiciously many suicides and murders among individuals having been associated (e.g. reporters, investigators etc.) with the death of JFK? I bet the ratio of suicides and murders, as causes of death, among individuals associated with the JFK case tops any similar statistic in any country. You said, "Are you saying that you put more stock in ancillary events in November 1963 and August 1965 than in the information that is available from October 29 1966?" Well, in my opinion the historical events seemed to build up and contribute to what happened to Pitzer on October 29th 1966. "Agreed. We need to obtain copies of the autopsy photographs and have them examined by experts. But, if the experts deduce suicide, would you accept it -- or would you continue to give more weight to uncorroborated accounts of events of November 1963 and August 1965?" I do not have adequate information on the wounds or on anything related to Pitzer's autopsy to offer a comment on the issue. I have merely formed my opinion on the cause of Pitzer's death by relying on statements by witnesses and next-of-kin. Didn't the "experts" already rule suicide once? So, no - I doubt that would change my mind. Antti

Wim; I agree that raises further suspicion. Bernice; I believe haven't read DeMohrenschildt's manuscript. Hopefully I can do that soon. You make several excellent points, concerning the rifle. I believe many more cover-up stories can been detected in the Warren Commission volumes, however reading through them takes so much time. This one I ponted out, about the visit, seeing the rifle in the closet and discussing the Walker shooting definitely seems to be a made up one since we have 3 witness statements, each giving slightly different stories, which by the way change as years go by. Antti

Testimony by Marina Oswald and the DeMohrenschildts, concerning the "joke" and the Walker incident. See how the story changes a little with time? And each one gives a different statement! The truth is harder to forget. A story that is made up, on the other hand, will become inaccurate in one's memory with time. George DeMohrenschildt in 1977, interview with Epstein, just before G. DeM killed himself. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://edwardjayepstein.com/diary/dem.htm What had brought De Mohrenschildt to the attention of the Warren Commission was Marina Oswald's testimony that De Mohrenschildt had rushed up the stairs of Oswald's house after he missed Walker and shouted, "Lee, how did you miss General Walker?" So he had to return from Haiti to testify. When questioned about this remark by the Commission, De Mohrenschildt shrugged it off as nothing more than an unfortunate coincidence: a "joke." He then returned to the obscurity of Haiti and gave no more interviews. and continues... He said he immediately rushed over to Oswald's house to find out what had happened and if Oswald had disposed of the rifle. He recalled being very frightened, as was his wife, Jean. He feared that he could be implicated, and the CIA might cut off support for his Haitian contract. at risk, that night was the last time he ever saw Oswald. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My questions, what happened to George DeM and Lee sitting on the couch when the "joke" was presented? What happened to Jeanne DeM's idea of taking a bunny over to the Oswalds? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- When questioned by Jenner with the Warren Commission: Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. And Jeanne told me that day, "Let's go and take a rabbit for Oswald's baby." Mr. JENNER. This was on Easter Sunday? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Easter day. I don't remember it was Easter Sunday. Mr. JENNER. Easter is always on Sunday. Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; maybe it was the day before, the day after, but I think it was on the holiday. Maybe my wife will remember the date exactly. And so we drove over quite late in the evening and walked up--I think they were asleep. They were asleep and we knocked at the door and shouted, and Lee Oswald came down undressed, half undressed you see, maybe in shorts, and opened the door and we told him that we have the rabbit for the child. And it was a very short visit, you know. We just gave the rabbit to the baby and I was talking to Lee while Jeanne was talking to Marina about something which is immaterial which I do not recall right now, and all of a sudden---- Mr. JENNER. Excuse me. Mr. Reporter, Jeanne is spelled J-e-a-n-n-e. Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. And I think Oswald and I were standing near the window looking outside and I was asking him "How is your job" or "Are you making any money? Are you happy," some question of that type. All of a sudden Jeanne who was with Marina in the other room told me "Look, George, they have a gun here." And Marina opened the closet and showed it to Jeanne, a gun that belonged obviously to Oswald. Mr. JENNER. This was a weapon? Did you go in and look? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. No; I didn't look at the gun. I was still standing. The closet was open. Jeanne was looking at it, at the gun, and I think she asked Marina "what is that" you see. That was the sight on the gun. "What is that? That looks like a telescopic sight." And Marina said "That crazy idiot is target shooting all the time." So frankly I thought it was ridiculous to shoot target shooting in Dallas, you see, right in town. I asked him "Why do you do that?" Mr. JENNER. What did he say? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. He said "I go out and do target shooting. I like target shooting." So out of the pure, really jokingly I told him "Are you then the guy who took a pot shot at General Walker?" And he smiled to that, because just a few days before there was an attempt at General Walker's life, and it was very highly publicized in the papers, and I knew that Oswald disliked General Walker, you see. So I took a chance and I asked him this question, you see, and I can clearly see his face, you know. He sort of shriveled, you see, when I asked this question. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My questions: Mr. DeM; What happened to you sitting on the couch talking to Lee when this took place? What about you running up the stairs and hollering the famous "joke" question at Lee concerning the shooting at Gen. Walker? No - wait, you say he came down and opened the door in his shorts...?? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mrs. DeMohrenschildt questioned by Jenner for the Warren Commission: Mr. JENNER. You got there. Now, just relax---- Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. I am trying to think hard, because every little fact could be important. Mr. JENNER. But you are excited. Relax, and tell me everything that occurred, chronologically, as best you can on that occasion. You came to the door and either Marina or Oswald came to the door, and you and your husband went in the home? Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. That is right. Mr. JENNER. Then, go on. Tell me about it. Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. And I believe from what I remember George sat down on the sofa and started talking to Lee, and Marina was showing me the house that is why I said it looks like it was the first time, because why would she show me the house if I had been there before? Then we went to another room, and she opens the closet, and I see the gun standing there. I said, what is the gun doing over there? Continued... Mr. JENNER. What did she say? Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. She said, "Oh, he just loves to shoot." I said, "Where on earth does he shoot? Where can he shoot?" When they lived in a little house. "Oh, he goes in the park and he shoots at leaves and things like that." But it didn't strike me too funny, because I personally love skeet shooting. I never kill anything. But I adore to shoot at a target, target shooting. Mr. JENNER. Skeet? Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. I just love it. Mr. JENNER. Didn't you think it was strange to have someone say he is going in a public park and shooting leaves? Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. But he was taking the baby out. He goes with her, and that was his amusement. Mr. JENNER. Did she say that? Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; that was his amusement, practicing in the park, shooting leaves. That wasn't strange to me, because any time I go to an amusement park I go to the rifles and start shooting. So I didn't find anything strange. Mr. JENNER. And she also said he took it out in the park and was shooting it. Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. It wasn't very much. I believe it was only two rooms. And then I returned back, and told George do you know what they have in the closet? I came back to the room, where George and Lee were sitting and talking. I said, do you know what they have in the closet? A rifle. And started to laugh about it. And George, of course, with his sense of humor--Walker was shot at a few days ago, within that time. He said, "Did you take a pot shot at Walker by any chance?" And we started laughing our heads off, big joke, big George's joke. And later on, according to the newspapers, he admitted that he shot at Walker. Mr. JENNER. Now, when George made that remark in the presence of Lee Oswald, "Did you take a pot shot at Walker?" Did you notice any change---- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My Question: Mrs. DeM; Which is it? Were George and Lee standing by the window, sitting on the couch or did George run up the stairs and holler out the famous question? Now Marina tells you Lee liked to shoot at leaves? What happened to target practice? Which is it? Or did he like to shoot at both, but told one leaves and the other targets? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mrs. OSWALD. He said only that he had taken very good aim, that it was just chance that caused him to miss. He was very sorry that he had not hit him. I asked him to give me his word that he would not repeat anything like that. I said that this chance shows that he must live and that he should not be shot at again. I told him that I would save the note and that if something like that should be repeated again, I would go to the police and I would have the proof in the form of that note. He said he would not repeat anything like that again. By the way, several days after that, the De Mohrenschildts came to us, and as soon as he opened the door he said, "Lee, how is it possible that you missed?" I looked at Lee. I thought that he had told De Mohrenschildt about it. And Lee looked at me, and he apparently thought that I had told De Mohrenschildt about it. It was kind of dark. But I noticed---it was in the evening, but I noticed that his face changed, that he almost became speechless. You see, other people knew my husband better than I did. Not always--but in this case. Mr. RANKIN. Was De Mohrenschildt a friend that he told---your husband told him personal things that you knew of? Mrs. OSWALD. He asked Lee not because Lee had told him about it, but I think because he is smart enough man to have been able to guess it. I don't know---he is simply a liberal, simply a man. I don't think that he is being accused justly of being a Communist. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My question? I thought you all laughed your heads off about it and George and Lee were on the couch or were they by the window? Lee was speechless? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any comments or other analysis or research on this? Antti Hynönen

Dr. Eaglesham, Thank you for providing the additional insight and elaborations to my statements. I'm glad to see my individual statements were not too far off from what you apparently also consider probable and reasonable. It seems like the main part we disagree with is the final conclusion; whether Lt.CMDR. Pitzer was actually murdered or whether he did in fact commit suicide. To sum up, now that I also have the additional information you kindly provided me with, I'd like to say that I can only believe in what makes sense to me. The murderer and the "would be" murderer: In this case there is a (would be) candidate for murdering Pitzer = Dan Marvin. (Who in their right mind would make up such a thing?). Therefore probably likely the actual murderer of Pitzer also exists, I doubt the CIA cancelled this because Dan Marvin said no thanks. I'm sorry I haven't heard or seen anything to consider Dan Marvin insane, seems like he is rather sane to me, considering what I've heard him say so far. Ok, I'm not an expert, but anyhow, such is my strong opinion. The motive and witness to the film material: There is a witness (Mr. David) claiming to have seen extra sensitive material pertaining to the death and autopsy of President Kennedy, in the hands of Pitzer. The potential of exposing to the public or using such material contrary tothe spirit of the cover-up, would absolutely expose the cover-up. (motive to kill) Well if you can prove something along the lines that Mr. D. David has totally made up what he saw Pitzer working on in Bethesda or that Dan Marvin is crazy you will have turned me around in my thinking. Until then the search for the truth continues. Thank you. Antti Hynönen

Here's my view. I'm surprised LTC Dan Marvin is still alive after having disclosed top secret government information regarding black-ops. I salute him for doing that, and being open about his knowledge pertaining to the case. I'm trying to separate factual statements from opinions and speculation. After stating basic facts I have attempted to draw my own conclusions. Please see how I'm doing....Experts, please tell me if I'm missing/misstating key points related to the death of William B. Pitzer: • In early August 1965, in Ft. Bragg NC, Dan Marvin says he was asked by a CIA man to take on a contract killing, where the target was a LT CMDR working at the Bethesda Naval Medical School. His name was William B. Pitzer. • Dan Marvin rejects the mission because the subject is an American, currently in the USA. It was not part of standard procedure for military black-op personnel to get involved in assassinations inside the USA. • Dan Marvin claims the next person to go see the CIA man was Capt. David H. Vanek. However, Dan Marvin does not know the subject of their discussion. • Apparently we do not know if yet another or several more Green Beret's approached the CIA man regarding the Pitzer contract. • In October of 1966 Pitzer was found dead in the film studio at Bethesda Naval Medical School, with a gunshot wound to his head (right temple). • The death certificate was withheld from the next-of-kin for a very long time. • There was both an FBI investigation on the death of Pitzer as well as a Navy investigation. • The officials eventually ruled the death of Pitzer a suicide. • There are claim(s) that Pitzer was left handed and claims that he was right handed. Apparently he skillfully used both. Depending on the task, he would prefer his left hand to his right and vice-versa. • From what I understand, Pitzer's wife and his other family members claim he was not depressed nor had he ever attempted suicide before. He also had plans for the time after retirement from the Navy and his life seemed generally worry free. • Petty Officer Dennis David knew Pitzer well, played cards with him and saw Pitzer working on some film regarding President Kennedy's autopsy. • Mr. David also says Pitzer had offers for employment from local TV stations. • It is rumored that Pitzer had a personal copy of the films which Mr. David saw. • Pitzer's copy of the film(s) has never been found. • Dan Marvin never met or knew Pitzer personally. Based on the facts??? above I would claim the following: • Due to Pitzer's ability to use both hands, (without preference of the other) he could have used either hand to shoot himself on either side of his head, if he so desired. • We do not know Pitzer's exact involvement regarding the film, whether he simply made a copy of the film he had obtained for himself, whether he actually filmed it himself, or whether he wanted to sell what he had to some other party. • Pitzer may simply have been asked to work on the film to cover some details that the conspirators wished to conceal, and he may not have had a copy at all. • At any rate Pitzer was an insider with sensitive information on the death and autopsy of JFK. • Based on Dan Marvin's claim there was a CIA contract to kill W. B. Pitzer. • Due to the existence of a cover-up regarding President Kennedy's assassination and autopsy, it is likely that Pitzer was killed by these same conspirators due to his involvement (whatever his involvement was) with the films. Based on (i) the facts in the first section of my posting and (ii) the conclusions I have drawn in the second part, it seems to me that it is far more likely that Lt. Cmdr. Pitzer was murdered than the alternative suicide theory. Has anyone ever considered that Pitzer may have been forced to pull the trigger, with the pistol pointing at his head? He could have been coerced to do so, or his wife and kids would have been next... If there is a will there is a way. Based on what I read on Dr. Eaglesham's website, I agree that there were some mistakes and discrepancies in the documentary aired in Russia; however, they do not change any of the basic fundamental facts. Any other thoughts or comments based on this? Kind regards, Antti Hynönen

Dixie, You may very well be right about Marina and her daughters. However, the only living individual who probably has always had the most delicate first hand knowledge about Lee Harvey Oswald is Marina. I believe she truly is the last person who could once and for all vindicate Lee. I have to agree with Wim; following up with Rachel may be the only way to approach Marina. From what I have read, June doesn't seem interested enough or doesn't want to follow through with this. I fully understand that researchers have come to a dead-end with Marina in the past. On the other hand, Marina has come a long way since 1964 and the WC. So, I would suggest that some of our fellow researchers in the Dallas area approach Marina, by means of talking to Rachel first, to see how Marina would feel about taking part in a professionally lead questioning session with a professional polygraph exam. I understand such services are available in Dallas. Antti Hynönen

Well, it would have been too easy. I'm sure I wasn't the first to suggest this. On the other hand, she has appeared on TV a few times in the 1990's. It seems like her attitude towards the intimidating government agencies is slowly changing. Maybe the time for an amended statement by her is closer to occurring now than ever before. Marian Wright Edelman: "You just need to be a flea against injustice. Enough committed fleas biting strategically can make even the biggest dog uncomfortable and transform even the biggest nation." Antti Hynönen

The "faced some severe limitations" sounds like the most probable explanation to me. However, I raise the following question assuming now that the Z-film underwent severe manipulation before it was viewed by the general public: Since the manipulated/edited Zapruder -film does not successfully conceal the general impression that Kennedy was also shot from the front (implying conspiracy), what else was it supposed to hide? Did they possibly try to conceal the fact that the limo came to a complete stop at the time of the head shot? Ok, let's say the conspirators possibly managed to conceal the fact that the Limo stopped completely. So what? Greer and all the other secret service men were able to avoid accusations of foul play. At the very least they avoided accusations from all of the official investigative parties. Greer explained something to the effect that in the hectic few seconds prior to the fatal head shot he was assessing the situation by turning back before he stepped on the gas. Ok, it's not a great excuse... but I seriously doubt it would dramatically change anything if the film would show that the limo came to a full stop for a few seconds. Whether the car stopped completely or just slowed down won't change what can be seen on the Z-film; the head shot seems to come from the front, many of the skull pieces and brain matter are sprayed to the back and to the left; the same direction as JFK's head (one of the motor cycle police officers, located behind and to the left of the limo, was sprayed with elements of the Presidents brain). Mrs. Kennedy picks up a piece of the Presidents brain off of the trunk of the car. Most of what is above can be seen on the Z-film, which to me proves multiple shooters, which again implies conspiracy. In other words, in my opinion the tampering of the film seems unsuccessful. The rest of my claims can be read in the witness testimony. Furthermore, in my view, it was the witness testimony that contributed 90% of Oswald's guilt in the JFK assassination case in the eyes of everyone who believed that Oswald could be the responsible one. Of all of the witness testimony, the testimony by Marina Oswald was the most damaging. Antti Hynönen

Also in Nigel Turner's series "The Men Who Killed Kennedy", she tells us her ex-husband could never have done it. She also says something along the lines: "not knowing the truth will destroy this Nation". As far as I can tell neither in neither Oprah Winfrey's show nor in "The Men who Killed Kennedy" does she claim other than what she testified in front of the WC or the HSCA regarding: 1) Her taking the backyard photos (Oswald claimed that these were fakes) 2) The Gen. Walker incident 3) The Nixon incident 4) Oswald possessing a rifle (To the police Oswald claimed he never owned a rifle) In fact, just as Marina says in the interview which you kindly posted John; her testimony was probably one of the most destructive in terms of portraying Oswald as the assassin of JFK. The Truth shall set you free. Antti Hynönen