Jim Hargrove

Isn't it fascinating, though, that the Oswald ID Nagel had also had a different mug shot and a different signature? Could the Oswald photo and signature on Nagel's version of the card be what actually appeared on the original "Lee Harvey Oswald DoD ID card?

But why would anyone bother to do that? If it is true that the original photo was changed, what was unacceptable about the original photo? Could the original photo have shown a face that is not the same as the face we currently associate with Oswald?

Hi, Mathias, The Russian-speaking Oswald who “defected” to the Soviet Union MAY have been a leftist… at least until he saw the Soviet system up close and personal. You’re right that there is a LOT of evidence for that. But he probably also was what he appears to have been, a U.S. spy trying to set up leftist credentials. Remember, he was clearly taking steps to “re-defect” in 1963, and had already been given permission to travel to Cuba and the USSR by the State Department. That, I suspect, may be why he allowed himself to be sheep-dipped in New Orleans in the summer of 1963. In any event, I’m talking about the other Oswald, the one who was active in the U.S. from 1959 to 1961 when Classic Oswald® was in the USSR. This Oswald appeared, again and again, in roles supporting the anti-Castro Cubans. In addition to the Bolton Ford incident (buying trucks on behalf of the “Friends of Democratic Cuba”), he roomed with Valentine Ashworth, a “Cuban Raider Command” pilot at a time when both young men were attempting to join a Cuban exile group. He had two meetings with Dumas Milne Chevy salesman James Spencer during which, again, he talked again about Cuba. (Spencer was the father of five children who Mr. Parnell wants us to believe risked years in the penitentiary and an enormous fine by lying to the FBI and creating false physical evidence so he could write a fraudulent magazine article for a few dollars.) This was the Oswald who, between 1959 and 1961, was seen and interacted with numerous people involved with anti-Castro guerrillas and training camps in Florida, most notably Marita Lorenz. This Oswald, even if you believe he was really just a series of impersonators, clearly did NOT appear to be a leftist.

Chris, From your illustrations of Soviet passport photos, it looks to me that you could make the case that the LHO photo on his suspect DoD ID card was actually created, and processed, by a Russian passport authority. Would you agree with that statement? Is it possible that the circular stamps were created mostly to obscure the tell-tale Soviet circular inset in the bottom right portion of the photo? Terrific discovery! This thread clearly suggests that the ID card was as phony as a three dollar bill. I think we should also consider the possibility that it wasn't the card found in Oswald's wallet, but was faked after the assassination. But why? Megathanks to Jim Di for bringing this all up.

What you call “overwhelming historical evidence” was actually almost entirely a product of J. Edgar Hoover’s massive FBI. Hoover’s job was to cover up the assassination, not solve it. That’s why he compartmentalized the entire “investigation,” forbidding agents from following up their own leads on their own initiative, instructing them not to share information, setting up a formal process for altering sworn statements by FBI agents, and making certain that as much information as possible from other Federal agencies passed through his Bureau before going to the Warren Commission. This is not rocket science. A true investigation of this case involves looking at the elements of the original investigation that Hoover neglected to suppress or alter. The Garrison investigation also helped a lot, as in the Bolton Ford incident, even though it was up against a massive counter-effort. If you refuse to debate the specifics of the detailed information John put together on a second “Lee Harvey Oswald” active in anti-Castro paramilitary operations in the U.S. while the Russian-speaking Oswald was in the USSR, all you can do is utter dismissive, generalized nonsense like the above. William Sullivan, third in command at the FBI after Hoover and Tolson, said, “if there were documents that possibly Hoover didn't want to come to the light of the public, then those documents no longer exist, and the truth will never be known.”

“Lee Harvey Oswald” was widely portrayed by the media as a Communist or at least a Commie sympathizer within hours of his capture. It is remarkable, therefore, that all the witnesses I discussed above who said they interacted with him in New Orleans or Florida in 1959-1962 said he was involved in anti-Castro activities. Every one of them! How does Mr. Parnell explain this remarkable coincidence? Does he think that Deslatte, Sewell, Ashworth, Spencer, Davis, Lorenz and others all met and conspired to paint Oswald as an anti-Communist because they thought the media unfairly condemned Commies? Really?

and blah-blah-blah. I've been posting online about the Kennedy assassination and John Armstrong's work for almost twenty years now. You wouldn't believe how many personal attacks I've had to ignore. Mr. Parnell is really one of the milder of the character assassins, but he is one nevertheless.

Another tell is that this Oswald was active in anti-Castro paramilitary operations in New Orleans and Florida when the other Oswald was demostrably somewhere else, usually the USSR. In addition to Deslatte and Sewell, there was Valentine Ashworth, a pilot affiliated with the "Cuban Raider Command," who roomed with Lee Oswald in 1959 when both men were trying to join a Cuban exile group, as well as people who saw Lee Oswald in and around Cuban training camps near Lake Ponchartrain, including Mrs. Gladys Davis, Martinez Malo, and most famously, Marita Lorenz. Yet another witness was James Spencer, a car salesman who worked at the Dumas Milner Chevrolet dealership in New Orleans. Spencer told the FBI that [while Harvey was in the USSR] he met with Lee Oswald twice, and that Oswald seemed interested in talking about Cuba. He wrote "Lee Oswald" on the back of his business card in 1961 and was able to locate it after the assassination. How many Oswalds can we expect to find in and around New Orleans who were active in anti-Castro operations AND associated with Guy Banister, Gerard Tugague, and Carlos Bringuier? I think most people would agree that any more than two is really stretching it! <g>

I've been wondering if "Joseph Moore" was really Morales since the day I read about the scar over his eye. Assuming I've read all the original source material that exists about the Bolton Ford incident, there may not be many more research angles to look at attempting to answer that question. Do you know how tall Morales was? Do you know of anyone else even vaguely associated with Kennedy assassination research who had a scar over his left eye? Considering the wealth of biographical material JA has assembled on the American-born Oswald, I don't believe much of this can be explained by a simple impersonation, by Kerry Thornley or anyone else (Larry Crafard is often mentioned in this context as well). Your mileage may vary, of course.

More About Bolton Ford As we’ll see immediately below, by 12/19/63 the FBI had already confirmed through a third source that “Lee Harvey Oswald” said he “was trying to get trucks for Cuba” and that Oswald had contacted Bolton Ford assistant truck manager Oscar W. Deslatte, who worked directly below truck manager Fred Sewell. The FBI apparently tried to bury the Bolton Ford incident, but none of its members, including J. Edgar Hoover, could have predicted that Fred Sewell would be interviewed by James Alcock and Jim Garrison on May 2, 1967. Sewell told Garrison and Alcock that he believed that one of the two men who visited the Bolton dealership in 1961 had used the name “Lee Oswald.” Sewell then described what happened immediately after the assassination of JFK: “So when the President was assassinated and the name came out, OSCAR come in either the next morning or the morning after and said, ‘Say, Fred, do you remember those two guys who was in here from Cuba trying to get some buses cheap?’ and I said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘I think that one of those men was the one who killed the President.’ I said, ‘Aw your kidding’ and he said ‘We’ve got a piece of paper around here somewhere with a bid on it.’ He went and hauled that piece of paper out and the[n] OSCAR called the FBI.” Sewell went on to describe how two young FBI agents came to the dealership and collected the bid that contained the name “Oswald” and “Friends of Democratic Cuba.” “They took two pieces of plastic and they scooped it up between it and they said have you touched this and we said, well, I guess so.” Sewell said repeatedly they they weren’t shown any pictures of Oswald by the FBI agents, but that the agents informed them that “OSWALD wasn’t even in the country at that time. He couldn’t be.” Sewell went on to say that the Oswald he saw at the Bolton dealership “appears to be the same man” he saw on television after the President was shot. By Dec. 19, 1963, the SAC in New Orleans was already confirming directly to J. Edgar Hoover himself that a man named Charles Pearson, who was office manager at Graham Paper Company, had stated that his friend Oscar W. Deslatte, assistant manager of truck sales at Bolton Ford, had been contacted by Oswald about buying trucks. Worse yet, the whole process of investigating the incident was prompted by a phone call from none other than Carlos Bringieur, the man who pretended to fight and then debate on the radio with “Lee Harvey Oswald” in August 1963 in New Orleans.

I’m going to spend most of the day out with my kids, so this post will have to be very rushed. I’d like to thank Mr. Bojczuk for FINALLY going on the record about Greg Parker’s so-called debunking of SOMETHING. Why don’t you do the same for the school records? So let’s see about Bolton Ford that you claim Mr. Parker has “debunked.” On January 20th, 1961, while Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald was in Minsk, a man calling himself “Lee Oswald” and another man visited the Bolton Ford Truck center in New Orleans. Jim Garrison’s staff interviewed Fred Sewell, who in 1961 managed truck sales at Bolton. Sewell said, “He represented himself as LEE OSWALD. He’s the man that spoke up and said, “I’m the man handling the money. You ought to have my name too.” But the evidence that this was one of our Oswalds goes far deeper than Sewell’s recollection. Sewell provided Oswald with a written proposal and the purchaser was listed as "Friends of Democratic Cuba." The Bolton sales order form listed FDC and the name "Oswald." And who were among the officers of the “Friends of Democratic Cuba” listed on the Bolton Ford sales order? None other than W. Guy Banister, who famously interacted with Oswald in New Orleans in 1963, and Gerard Tugague, Oswald’s EMPLOYER in 1956. Below is a composite scan from the beginning and the end of the Louisiana Articles of Incorporation for Friends of Democratic Cuba, Inc. This is a VERY rushed presentation because I have to go out. But please explain, HERE and in detail, how Greg Parker has “debunked” the Bolton Ford incident. Looking forward to hearing from you.

I occasionally hear from other JFK researchers who from time to time read these posts. One of the more active researchers yesterday sent me the following email, which pretty much speaks for itself. Jim, Norman Mailer's Oswald's Tale is an exasperating book in part because there is no index. But here is some quoted material that is germane to understanding the facade that Oswald was presenting to the locals in Minsk: "People laughed at him when he talked. His Russian was so bad people laughed, not mocking, but friendly. He would try to pronounce words, get them wrong. They would laugh....He couldn't understand their words, so they showed him with sign language, made animal sounds, and he laughed. " (p. 80) Shortly after Oswald began work in the Minsk factory, Comrade Libezin, the local Communist Party Secretary, gave the assignment to a university-educated engineer named Stanislav Shuskevich of tutoring Oswald in Russian. Here is Mailer's summary of the tutorials: "Lessons took place in a second-floor room after work, and Oswald would come to visit him [Shushkevich] from another building in their factory compound....Shushkevich just worked on verbs, and occasionally tried to teach this American colloquial Russian....Their lessons proceeded without great enthusiasm, and Oswald found Russian difficult. He did get to a point where he could achieve understanding if Shushkevich spoke slowly, used gestures, wrote words on pieces of paper, and sometimes brought out a dictionary." (pp. 81-82) Another Russian named Stellina (named after Stalin) was the manager of Intourisht's Service Bureau at Hotel Minsk. She was a great linguist, fluent in English, German, Byelorussian, Chech, Polish, and Yiddish. (p. 73) Oswald referred to her affectionately as "Ma." Stellina also attempted to teach Oswald Russian during his stay in Minsk. He he often complained [in English] that when he returned from work, he was too tired, telling her, "Ma, I've gotten so tired I don't even have the strength to go and take my key and open my door." (p. 82) The scenario above fits perfectly with a trained American operative who knows the Russian language well, yet is keeping up the appearance of a rube. In life, Harvey Oswald fooled his hosts in the USSR, including the unreliable Ernst Titovets. And posthumously, he has fooled the dim-witted and lazy members of the Education Forum.

Last Thursday, Sandy Larsen wrote, “It's occurred to me that, if Oswald hid his Russian speaking skills, that would be pretty good evidence in itself that his defection was an intel operation.” Sounds true to me. A doctor at Botkinskay Hospital in Moscow certainly noticed that deception when, just a couple of days after “Lee Harvey Oswald” arrived in Moscow, he wrote: "The patient apparently understands the questions asked in Russian. Sometimes he answers correctly, but immediately states that he does not understand what he was asked." The late author Norman Mailer, who gained access to Russian government material on Oswald available to no other researchers, made two interesting points in the opening pages of his book, Oswald’s Tale. First, that Oswald spent a lot of money on a Deluxe tourist package (just as he had spent a lot of money on first class hotels on his way to Moscow, which is strange for a fellow who always seemed poor as a church mouse.) Second, Rimma Shirakova, his young English-speaking guide, believed he didn’t speak a word of Russian. Here are three early pages from Oswald’s Tale that I captured from Google Books. (I added the yellow highlighting.)

Mathias, Fascinating post, as always, but I do want to make one correction. Documents at the National Archives are almost evenly divided between a 5' 8" Oswald and a 5'10" Oswald. USMC medical records shortly before his discharge list Oswald's height at 5'10". The only reference to a 5'9" Oswald I'm aware of came from the Dallas Police, not the USMC. If you have other information, I'l love to hear about it.

Mark makes a fascinating comparison.... Note this detail from the old "EVOLUTION OF LEE HARVEY OSWALD" poster prepared by Jack White and John Armstrong: (The shadow at lower right is caused by my cell phone, which I used to copy the image from the poster, which has been hanging on my office door for some two decades now.)

As always, H&L critics refuse to debate HERE the evidence that "Lee Harvey Oswald" attended school simultaneously in New York and New Orleans. They always point to another website, so they can argue about what appears THERE. This is the "JFK Assassination Debate" forum, men. If you believe anyone can explain the miracle of "Lee Harvey Oswald's" 1953 fall semester, why not put the evidence HERE? Then we could DEBATE it HERE with clarity. But, of course, clarity isn't what you guys want. You want to pretend that someone else has solved your problem. And then you run away! WHY ARE YOU AFRAID TO PUT WHATEVER EVIDENCE YOU CLAIM YOU HAVE RIGHT HERE? Here, again, is a brief version of my evidence: In 1953, Marguerite and LEE were living in a basement apartment at 1455 Sheridan while LEE was attending PS 44 in New York City. After the assassination SAC John Malone, the FBI agent in charge of the New York Office, inspected Oswald's original court file in the presence of Judge Florence Kelley. Malone took notes and sent a report to FBI Director Hoover the following day. Malone wrote, "Oswald's attendance record at PS #44 from 3/23/53 to 1/12/54 was 171 and 11 half-days present and 18 and 11 half days absent. If LEE Oswald's 182 days of attendance (171 full days, 11 1/2 days) and 18 absences are plotted on 1953 and 1954 calendars it is easy to see that LEE Oswald attended PS 44 full time during the entire 1953 school year. In the fall of 1953 LEE Oswald was attending the eighth grade at PS 44 in New York, while HARVEY Oswald and his caretaker/mother were living at 126 Exchange Place in New Orleans. HARVEY was enrolled in the eighth grade at Beauregard Junior High, and because he attended school part-time he was not assigned a home room. On page 817, of Warren Volume 22, there is a copy of Oswald's cumulative school records at Beauregard. The first row, highlighted in yellow, is the fall semester of 1953 and shows that Oswald attended a General Science class, a Physical Education class, and attended 89 days of school with only one absence. The second row is for the last half of the eighth grade (spring semester). The third row shows final grades, absences, and tardies for the entire 53-54 school year (eighth grade). WHO HAS THE COURAGE TO STEP UP TO THE PLATE AND DEBATE THE EVIDENCE HERE? Not one H&L critic, I'll bet.

Mark, Service number 1653230 was assigned in the USMC enlistment contract to "Lee Harvey Oswald." The Russian-speaking Oswald signed the contract on Oct. 24, 1956 in Dallas.

To Michael Walton: John Armstrong is a multi-millionaire who made two separate fortunes in his life, one in the oil business and the other as a custom-home builder. He owns at least four homes that I'm aware of. When you suggest he does all this to sell a $60 book you are making a fool of yourself.... again. I can assure you, I am not John Armstrong. He has never posted on an online forum. You are playing the fool. Can you argue about ANY evidence? Your disdain for real evidence is clear as you describe the process of presenting it as "throwing more papers and words up on the wall." Why don't YOU present some evidence, instead of just stating your OPINIONS all the time?

Of course, Ruth Paine wanted us all to know that Harvey Oswald wrote Russian like a... uh... true Russian when she "found" the note in which he practically admitted he was about to shoot General Walker. I think the note is clearly a forgery, but it puts WC loyalists in an interesting position of having to believe Harvey Oswald could write Russian like that after just 12 tutoring sessions in the language. LOL.

And remember, this is just how Oswald hid his Russian abilities when he was taken to Botkinskay Hospital after his fake suicide attempt. A doctor wrote "The patient apparently understands the questions asked in Russian. Sometimes he answers correctly, but immediately states that he does not understand what he was asked." I'd like to get a copy of Norman Mailer's book, because my understanding is he interviewed or found extensive information on the Intourist Guide Oswald hired, Rimma Shirakova. She apparently indicated that Oswald didn't speak a word of Russian.

Sure, Sandy! Just last Saturday, W. Tracy Parnel wrote: Unfortunately for Armstrong, In 1995, three years before she talked to Armstrong, Ziger told an Argentinian publication that “Nobody could say anything [about lies LHO told] because he spoke Russian poorly Dad would translate ...” There is other evidence, but I do love it so when Mr. Parnell provides it!!! What more can I say?

Let's get these images on the record in this thread....

To someone just happening on this page and wondering what all the outrage is about, click here and see for yourself: HarveyandLee.net

Still waiting for an H&L critic to respond to this issue, which I posted more than a month ago.... Harvey Oswald’s ability to understand Russian, and his attempts to hide that fact, were noted by a Russian doctor during Oswald’s earliest days in the USSR. In October 1959 Harvey made a false suicide attempt hoping the act would help him complete his intel assignment in Russia. One of the doctors at Botkinskay Hospital in Moscow who attended him wrote, "The patient apparently understands the questions asked in Russian. Sometimes he answers correctly, but immediately states that he does not understand what he was asked." Harvey Oswald’s Russian ability was noted by many people before he even “defected" to the Soviet Union, including Rosaleen Queen and a number of Marines. This has been discussed many times before. Tracy Parnell wants us to believe Harvey Oswald didn't hide his Russian language abilities while in the Soviet Union (although he clearly did, from all but a couple of people). How does Mr. Parnell explain the document above?

Of course, Mr. Walton cannot discuss the evidence. He merely declares victory, declares I may be John Armstrong, and runs away. What courage! So, let's change the subject. Maybe Mr. Walton would like to explain why, when Lee Harvey Oswald was clearly living in Minsk in the USSR, he was also at the Bolton Ford Dealership in New Orleans. Will Mr. Walton debate THIS evidence here on the "JFK Assassination Debate" forum? Of course he won't. Anyway, here are the details. The Bolton Ford Incident On January 20, 1961, while Harvey Oswald was in Minsk, two men visited the Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans. They spoke with Assistant Manager Oscar Deslatte and said they were interested in purchasing 10 Ford Econoline Trucks. As one of the men discussed the purchase with Deslatte the other man, who identified himself as Joseph Moore, made a list of the equipment they desired on the trucks. Deslatte went to his boss, truck manager Fred Sewell, and told him about the two men who wanted to purchase trucks and said they represented the "Free Democrats of Cuba or some such organization." Sewell told Deslatte to give the men a bid of $75 over their cost for the trucks. Deslatte and Sewell returned to Deslatte's desk and wrote out a bid form to Joseph Moore. As Deslatte was filling out the bid form, Joseph Moore and the other man began talking to both Deslatte and Sewell.42 When Moore saw that Deslatte had written his name on the bid form he asked that the name be changed to "Friends of Democratic Cuba." Moore's friend looked· at the form and said, "By the way, you'd better put my name down there because I'm the man handling the money." When Deslatte asked, "What's your name?" the man replied, "Lee Oswald."61-04 Sewell described Lee Oswald as, "5-foot-6 or 5-foot-7, thin, about 140 pounds, and thought he needed a meal and a haircut. He recalled that Oswald was clean but "wasn't well dressed and he wasn't shabby." Sewell described the second man, who identified himself as Joseph Moore as, "Kind of heavy-set ..... not overly, but well built ..... he was curly haired ..... he had a scar over his left eye ..... olive complexioned and seemed to be educated ..... he had a Cuban accent and looked like a Cuban." Deslatte gave the original bid form to "Lee Oswald" and kept a copy for his files, which he gave to the FBI following the assassination.61-05 The purchaser was listed as the "Friends of Democratic Cuba," 402 St. Charles Street, New Orleans, LA., phone number JA-5-0763.43 After talking with Deslate for over an hour the two men took the original bid form and left. NOTE: The Friends of Democratic Cuba was incorporated on January 9, 1961 in Louisiana. The address of 402 St. Charles Street was listed as vacant in the 1960, 1961 and 1962 New Orleans City directories. --Above excerpted from Harvey and Lee, pp. 325-326, Copyright © 2003 by John Armstrong Remarkable about the “Friends of Democratic Cuba” were the names of two of its officers. The image shown below is a composite scan from the beginning and the end of the Louisiana Articles of Incorporation for Friends of Democratic Cuba, Inc. W. Guy Banister worked at the infamous 544 Camp Street address in New Orleans, made famous by the Jim Garrison investigation. Gerard Tugague employed Oswald briefly in late 1955 and early 1956 at the 300 Sanlin Building in New Orleans. On our website John Armstrong wrote, “This well-known incident was cited in Warren Commission Document 75 p. 677 and the House Select Committee on Assassinations Vol. X; FBI 67-39565-66. For years some JFK researchers believed that an impostor was using Oswald's name while the alleged future assassin was in Russia. As more and more examples surfaced it became clear that another man, using the name "Lee Harvey Oswald," was associating with anti-Castro Cubans and CIA operatives in the southern United States during the very years the Warren Commission placed him in the Soviet Union. This man was southern born LEE Oswald, and is a clear indication that both Oswalds were active in American intelligence operations.” There are other examples of LEE Oswald operating in the U.S. while HARVEY Oswald was in Russia. For an overview, see THIS PAGE on HarveyandLee.net. Below is a copy of the FBI report covering this incident. Compare it to the Garrison interview excerpted above.