Jim Hargrove

A huge amount of the material I downloaded (Part 3 of 9) is either totally redacted, delayed, withheld, or completely illegible. The majority of this stuff seems to be from the CIA. I'm beginning to think we're being had--AGAIN! I can't believe anyone would keep anything as totally unreadable as many of these documents are. This has to be deliberate.

Collins Radio of Richardson, TX (near Dallas), the employer of both Carl Mather and Kenneth Porter, has long been of interest to JFK researchers. Collins Radio was also the lessee of a 174-ft. ship called the “Rex,” which, according to the 11/1/63 NYTimes, carried a group of commandos to Cuba in a failed attempt to kill Fidel Castro. (Source, H&L pp. 716 & 731) Although I haven’t seen much directly about the Kennedy assassination in this file [DOCID-32358065.PDF from Part 3 of the formerly-withheld-in-full releases from today], this 21-page CIA document seems to confirm what we long suspected: that the CIA had, at least at the time of the HSCA, a close working relationship with Collins Radio. Here’s one of those 21 pages:

Yeah, the download I did about five hours ago worked well, but I just got back from the airport and the site seems to be crawling now. Could there be that much interest in the files? If you're still on Pacific time, you might try as late as possible, assuming your problem is due to bandwidth issues at NARA.

IThe direct link to the NARA 2017 docs download page is: https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/2017-release These are mostly multi-GB files. I'm downloading Part 3 of the 9 "formerly withheld in full" docs. Perhaps we can collectively give first looks at most of these, though I'm really not expecting much.... EDIT: The file sizes listed on the download page are not accurate. The file I just downloaded was only about 40 percent of the indicated size. The download took less than 10 minutes.

According to the content lists, a lot of the "Formerly Withheld in Full" docs deal with Nosenko.

Sandy, Are you seeking any other suggestions? I have a couple....

I always thought so. John thinks Harvey was stationed at Santa Ana two months or so before the official record indicates, which would give him a little more time to teach himself Russian. Obviously, WC apologists should accept John’s analysis! Then they wouldn’t be in quite such a bind about our boy’s Russian skills, heh-heh-heh. Can you tell us how you shaved off two month from Oswaldovich's excellent Russian Self-tutelage Adventure?

Thanks, Mathias. It should be noted that, at least according to the White Russians around Dallas after Oswald returned to the USA, his Russian ability was at least approaching that of a native speaker. A number of them noted how remarkable it was. Marina told the HSCA that her future husband was reading classic Russian novels in Russian when she met him, a year or so before the pair left the USSR. I’ll keep an eye out for it, but I’m pretty sure that the Russian language test has never been reproduced by the WC, or the HSCA, or released by the ARRB. It’s also quite possible that part of it was done verbally. Regarding the Monterey Army Language School, I can’t tell you much beyond what John wrote in the opening pages of Harvey and Lee. “I began listing the dates of his Marine Corps training,” he wrote starting on p. 4, “assignments, transfers, and duty stations on 1956, 1957, 1958 and 1959 calendars. I soon realized there was no time for Oswald to have taken Russian classes in boot camp (1956), ITR training (early 1957), aviation training in Jacksonville, Florida (March-April, 1957), or radar school in Biloxi (May-June, 1957). In August 1957, Oswald boarded the USS Bexar to Japan and no one saw him reading or studying Russian during the voyage.” He then spends some time on Japan, concluding no one saw Oswald practicing Russian while stationed there, which brings us right up to MACS-9 at Santa Ana, where Oswald suddenly became Comrade Oswaldovich. John had to base this, of course, on the USMC records we have been handed by the U.S. Government. If Oswald was being groomed as a spy who secretly understood Russian, his Russian language training would most likely have been hidden, at least in the documents. John talked to a number of Marines, though, and apparently found no evidence off the documentary record of Oswald taking or talking Russian before MACS-9 in Santa Ana. I’m not sure how extensive these interviews were. Yet another huge complication is that John makes an excellent case that the Oswald stationed at Santa Ana was not the same Oswald who was stationed in Japan. Another question for you, if do don’t mind. Had Oswald scored the equivalent of an A+ on the Russian exam, do you think the Marines would have published that fact? Your work on this subject is most appreciated.

Interesting, Mathias. Do you have any idea if the "Defense Language Aptitude Battery" described in your second link bears any resemblance to what was in effect in the late 1950s? Do you know (or can you make an informed guess) how the proficiency ratings of "0, 0+ 1, 1+, 2, 2+, or 3" would relate to Oswald's score? I too find it exceptionally unlikely that Oswald taught himself Russian. Which leaves only secret training during a time frame narrowed down by Sandy Larsen to a period of seven months. Or the possibility that he learned Russian earlier in his life. You mention Nelson Delgado. According to the Warren Commission, he worked with our boy at MACS-9 near Santa Ana, CA from 12-22-58 until 9-4-59. This is the only place where Oswald showed off his Russian abilities before returning from the "defection," although there is considerable evidence in FBI reports with other soldiers (unpublished by the WC) that Russian-speaking Oswald actually arrived at MACS-9 in October of 1958, while the other Oswald was still in Japan. Among the soldiers who lived and worked with him at MACS-9 earlier in 1958 were Delgado, Sergeant Erwin Lewis, Sergeant Camilous Brown, Buddy Simco, Mack Osborne, Neil Tessem, Henry Roussel, Robert Allen, and Paul Hickey. It was common knowledge at the Santa Ana facility that Oswald could read, write, and speak Russian. WC apologists try to leave the impression that he was teaching himself the language there, but the argument has never been convincing. Thank you for your post.

This is really good news. Best of luck with it, Sandy!!! Here are four quick suggestions for your consideration …. 1. A link to the three minute YouTube video in which Gil Jesus and Mark Lane show how the FBI altered the observations of three Dealey Plaza witnesses (what Tracy Parnell would call, you know, three “mistakes”). 2. The obvious fact that the CIA and the Kennedy Administration were at war during the final weeks of President Kennedy’s life. (You might want to link the Richard Starnes piece that provoked Krock, but Starnes’s newspaper is long gone and the NYTimes is still flourishing (or “failing” depending on your IQ). 3. Evidence that the FBI secretly brought LHO’s possessions to Washington D.C. the night of the assassination, altered them, and then secretly returned them to Dallas a few days later, only to publicly bring them back to Washington the following day. And of course, how they altered their own agent’s sworn Warren Commission testimony to hide the secret transfer. 4. And, of course, all the evidence that “Lee Harvey Oswald” was really a remarkably successful spy working for the U.S. government, planning to attempt to resume his spying activities in Russia at just about the time he was framed for the assassination of JFK.

It’s pretty obvious that Tracy doesn’t want to repeat his silly arguments, like when he claimed the FBI mistakenly went to the wrong hotel more that 1300 miles from the right hotel, or when they failed to make a report on the only soldier named Earl Perry who was active in the USMC at the time. No doubt he wants to change the subject, give us helpful suggestions, etc. That’s what he calls “debunking!”

Great question, DJ. I agree that the best explanation for his “oversight” is that the rifle was never mailed. Harry Holmes was sure helpful coming up with evidence for that gun. And he alone—all by himself—heard Oswald tell police he had been to Mexico City. Funny that no one else heard it.

blockquote widget To Tracy Parnell.... Directly above is my original post from yesterday that you claim you debunked two years ago. Please post here the specific arguments that you say disprove the facts I have presented, now for the second time in this thread. --Jim

Yeah, that was all. Despite their faults, at least some of the WC folk tried at least to dot their I's and cross their T's back in the day... which hardly forgives them, but I'll bet even that took some courage way back in 1964.

DJ, Please see my edited post at the top of this page.

From page 682 of the WC Report.... --Jim

DJ, But your invisioncic.com image is showing up directly above quite nicely! Sorry to keep harping about this, but I'm getting complaints from my web server. --Jim

To Tracy Parnell… Your positions are utterly absurd. The political provocateurs under consideration above were active in New York City in early 1962 (and earlier). The informant said several of the men working in New York City with Lee Oswald were staying at the Roosevelt Hotel, also in New York City. It is more than 1300 miles by car from Manhattan, New York to downtown New Orleans. Your suggestion that the FBI might have thought these New York City activists may have been staying in a hotel requiring a daily round trip commute of MORE THAN TWO THOUSAND SIX HUNDRED MILES is beyond laughable. So is your contention that the FBI should not have talked to the only Earl Perry active in the USMC at the time. If you call this debunking, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

Mr. Parnell is not much of a debunker.... My post above, which he claims to have debunked two years ago, makes two specific points: 1. Men associated with Lee Harvey Oswald in NYC in early 1962 (when the other Oswald was in Russia) were staying at the Roosevelt Hotel in New York City. 2. That one of Oswald's NYC associates was a man named Earl Perry, who, according to an FBI source, Oswald met at Camp LeJeune as a Marine in 1956. Anyone who bothers to read Mr. Parnell's lengthy write-ups at the links he offers above will discover the following: 1. To explain why the FBI went to the Roosevelt Hotel in New Orleans, instead of the Roosevelt Hotel in New York specified in the FBI's own report, Mr. Parnell basically says, "Gosh, mistakes happen." That's right! It's just a Big Mistake! It could happen to anyone. 2. To explain why the FBI did not bother to make a report on the only Earl Perry active in the USMC, Mr. Parnell says, well.... maybe Perry was no longer in the USMC... so the FBI had better not make a report on the one who still was. Sheesh! No wonder Mr. Parnell never wants to put his arguments right here. He just points everywhere else and hopes people will believe he has real arguments. He doesn't.

DJ and I both think that the FBI deliberately supplied information on the wrong Felde to minimize exposure of the relevant Felde’s association with a second Oswald in the USMC. Sandy’s hypothesis about this might be right on the money. This sort of thing was part of the FBI’s bag of tricks for misinforming the Warren Commission about the Oswald Project. It’s funny that Tom Hume mentions the “Steven Yves L’Eandes” affair in the post above, because following is an example of several other similar types of FBI “errors” from the very saga Tom mentions. I’ve tried to keep it simple here. For those who want to read John’s full write-up, see the link at the bottom of the post. Anyway…. Hours after the assassination, the FBI had information that a LEE Harvey Oswald was acting as an agent provocateur in New York City in 1961 and 1962, when Lee HARVEY Oswald was living in the Soviet Union. Told that several of the people working with Oswald had stayed at the Roosevelt Hotel in NYC, the next step was clearly to check the hotel’s records. But, of course, confirming any part of the information or, worse yet, finding that Lee Harvey Oswald was staying at the New York hotel at the same time he was in Russia would clearly expose the Oswald Project. So what did Hoover do? He sent Special Agent James E. Schmidt of the New Orleans office to the Roosevelt Hotel in New Orleans! Not surprisingly, Oswald’s name was not found there since the agent was clearly at the wrong hotel.  But wait! It gets even better. Three days after the assassination, Special Agent J. Richard Nichols contacted Major Robert C. Whitebread of the Marine Corps in an attempt to locate Earl Perry, one of the people who worked with Oswald in New York City in early 1962. Nichols learned that the only Earl Perry on active duty was assigned to the Marine Supply Center in Barstow, CA and was from El Paso, TX. But on the next day, instead of requesting the military file for Earl Eugene Perry from El Paso, SA Leonard Lewis obtained the file for Earl Sheldon Perry from the Military Personnel Records Center in St. Louis. Earl Sheldon Perry was from Casper, Wyoming. By making this deliberate “error,” the FBI avoided contacting Earl Eugene Perry from El Paso, who was mentioned as an acquaintance of Oswald in New York City in 1961. Instead, it collected information on Earl Sheldon Perry, a former chaplain's assistant in the US Army who, of course, didn’t know anything about Oswald in NYC. Problem solved! For John’s complete write-up on this, which also involved a man who became a well-known television actor in the 1970s, see: http://harveyandlee.net/Landesberg/Landesbergs.html

Tom, I wouldn't want to publish the SS# of someone who might still be alive. You're probably thinking of his USMC ID#, but I'm only aware of one. See earlier in this thread.

I'll bet we can! This is a terrific idea, Sandy…. I’m going to spend some time in the next few days going through the relevant pages from the 1956 and 1957 chapters of H&L (and I’ll try read as many of the source docs as I can) looking for more observations from other Marines. I’m pretty confident, though, that we will not find soldiers talking about “Oswald’s” Russian language abilities prior to Harvey’s time at Santa Ana. Somewhere, in the WC Report if memory serves, a writer speculates that Oswald studied Russian while still in Japan, but I don’t think that is borne out by the evidence. At any rate, I’ll get back to this ASAP. In the meantime, let’s talk about Felde…. John wrote, “Alexander D. Felde's service number was 1641924, and is between Marine recruits with service numbers 1641923 and 1641927 (Leo C. King, Richard Rasmussen, Peter J. Scifo, and Joseph D. Socha). All of these recruits, including Felde, were from the Milwaukee, Wisconsin area and all en­ listed between October 22nd and October 24th, 1956.” [H&L p. 148] If the service # of Allen R. Felde is included in H&L, I haven’t found it yet, but I believe Allen was from Wisconsin. This, among other evidence suggests the two names referred to the same soldier. Felde is important because he belonged to a group of Marines who in 1957 worked and bunked with HARVEY Oswald while LEE Oswald was demonstrably elsewhere. The Warren Commission, in a surely deliberate move, did not interview Felde or a number of other soldiers who worked with Harvey for the better part of a year in California, Jacksonville, Biloxi, and Memphis at the same time Lee was in Jacksonville (before Harvey) and then at El Toro and aboard the USS Bexar sailing to Japan. The WC did, however, interview Marines who barely knew LEE Oswald for a day or two in Japan. Felde may have thought he was in personal danger. John tracked him down somewhere out west and indicated that he changed his Social Security number in the late 1980s. Who does that? Thanks again, and more to come….

Sandy, That's an interesting question that I'll try to find time to look at more fully. As usual, though, some or all of the answer can be found in John's book. Perhaps you'll recall this section from the opening pages of Harvey and Lee: Russian-speaking Oswald One of the unexplained curiosities, which always perplexed and intrigued me, was Oswald's near perfect command of the Russian language, which was allegedly self­- taught and mastered within a couple of months. I studied the German language for two years in high school, had a German-speaking neighbor as a tutor, and became somewhat proficient in elementary German. After two years of study, I could understand and speak simple sentences, but was completely lost during a normal conversation. I won­- dered how Oswald, with a 9th grade education, could have mastered the Russian language within a few months, without the aid of a teacher, tutor, or language school. I studied Oswald's Marine Corps records to see if there was a time period dur­- ing which he could have received language training, possibly at the Army Language School in Monterrey, CA. I began by listing the dates of his Marine Corps training, assignments, transfers, and duty stations on 1956, 1957, 1958 and 1959 calendars. I soon realized there was no time for Oswald to have taken Russian classes in boot camp (1956), ITR training (early 1957), aviation training in Jacksonville, Florida (March-April, 1957), or radar school in Biloxi (May-June, 1957). In August 1957, Oswald boarded the USS Bexar to Japan and no one saw him reading or studying Russian during the voy- age. In September 1957 Oswald arrived in Atsugi, Japan and was photographed standing in front of his locker. JFKlOl-03 Fellow Marine Zack Stout befriended Oswald and the young men spent a lot of time together. I asked Zack if ever saw Oswald study the Russian language. Zack said, "Most of the time we were with a mobile radar unit. Shortly after he arrived we left Japan and traveled constantly from location to location in the South China Sea (beginning in November 1957). I know Oswald didn't attend any Russian classes or read any Russian books or listen to any Russian records. He didn't have anywhere to get such materials and if he had them we (Stout and fellow Marines) would have known about it. We slept in the same bunkhouse and most of the time worked on the same radar crew. The idea that Oswald studied Russian in Japan is ri-­ diculous-it just didn't happen."2 After speaking with Zack, I gathered FBI, Warren Commission, and HSCA interviews of Marines who had known and served with Oswald in Japan. I wanted to see if any of these Marines saw Oswald with a Russian book, Russian records, or Rus­- sian reading materials. Not surprisingly, no one saw Oswald with Russian literature nor remembered that he studied the language while in Japan, where he was stationed un­- til November 1958. According to the Warren Commission, Oswald left Japan and reported for duty at the Marine Corps Air Facility in Santa Ana, California, in December 1958. A month later he took, and passed, a military language exam in the Russian language. Fellow Ma­ rines who served with Oswald in Santa Ana remembered that he read Russian news­- papers, listened to Russian records, and was interested in everything Russian. How was this possible? Where and how had Oswald studied and learned Russian? In the spring of 1959 Oswald had a date with Rosaleen Quinn, the aunt of a fel­- low Marine who had studied the Russian language for the past year using the Berlitz method. She and Oswald conversed in Russian for over two hours and she was very impressed with his command of the language. Oswald's proficiency in Russian, and his interest in Russia, first surfaced at the Marine base in California in 1959--only 9 months before his "defection" to the Soviet Union. But no one, including the WatTen Commission, ever determined how or where he learned Russian. --From Harvey and Lee, pp. 4-5, copyright © 2003 by John Armstrong As you probably know, the time period you're examining is discussed in H&L starting around page 146. Mainly from unit diaries, John presents the following timeline: Boot camp in San Diego-October 24, 1956 thru January 18, 1957 Camp Pendleton (ITR training)-January 20 thru February 26, 1957 On leave NaTechTraCen (Naval Technical Training Center) in Jacksonville, Florida (Aviation Fundamentals School)-March 18 thru May 3, 1957. Biloxi, Mississippi-radar school at Keesler Air Force Base (shown as Henderson Hall, Arlington, VA)-May 13 thru June 24, 1957 On leave Marine Corps Air Facility, El Toro, CA & USS Bexar to Japan-July 9 thru September 12 MACS 1, MAG II, 1st MAW FMF (Japan)-September 12 thru December 31, 1957 [Source: H&L pp. 156-157] I would have to go through H&L with a fine tooth comb to see what information is available for each of the elements above, but one I know right now concerns the Biloxi Mississippi radar school. Regarding that, Donald Peter Camarata told the FBI that during the time he knew [Lee] Oswald at the school, he had "no recollection... of any remarks on his [Oswald's] part concerning Communism, Russia, or Cuba." Allen Felde knew Harvey Oswald through much of his early USMC time, but it's a complex subject starting with what appears to be two different names in USMC records for who John is convinced is the same fellow. The two names are Alexander D. Felde and Allen R. Felde. Here is the FBI report of Felde, whose account differs somewhat from the Unit Diaries: I've kind of run out of time for this right now. This isn't a very good post, I'm afraid, but I'll try to get back to the subject.

That’s a perfectly logical assumption, Mathias, but the Big Picture may be a bit more complicated than that. Russian-speaking Lee HARVEY Oswald took his Russian exam, spoke Russian for two hours with Rosaleen Quinn, and established his Russian commie credentials while stationed at the Marine Corps Air Facility (MCAF—also known as MACS 9) located near Santa Ana, CA. FBI interviews coupled with USMC records indicate he was there from the fall of 1958 until July 1959. During the early part of this same period, American-born LEE Harvey Oswald was still stationed in Atsugi, Japan, departing from Yokosuku aboard the USS Barrett and arriving in San Francisco on November 15. He was briefly at the Marine Corps Air Station (MCAS—also known as MACS 3) near El Toro, CA, then at Vincent Air Force Base in Yuma, AZ, and then at Marine Control Group 3 (MAG 3), also near El Toro. Two pictures of LEE Oswald on his trip to Yuma are in the National Archives. Allen D. Graf told the FBI that he was Oswald’s Platoon Sergeant for 6-8 months at MAG 3. During all this time, Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald was stationed at MACS 9 near Santa Ana!

You can't explain how "Oswald" learned Russian, Mathias, but I can. His ability is consistent with that of a kid who learned Russian as a young child and then was brought to the U.S. where he started using English instead. A funny dialog about this very issue is from Oliver Stone's movie JFK. It's spoken by the actor Kevin Kostner, who played Jim Garrison: It's incredible, honey -- the whole thing. A Lieutenant Colonel testifies that Lee Oswald was given a Russian language exam as part of his Marine training only a few months before he defects to the Soviet Union. A Russian exam! . . . Honey, in all my years in the service I never knew a single man who was given a Russian test. Oswald was a radar operator. He'd have about as much use for Russian as a cat has for pajamas. . . . And then this Colonel tries to make it sound like nothing. Oswald did badly on the test, he says. "He only had two more Russian words right than wrong." Ha! That's like me saying Touchdown here . . . (points to the dog) . . . is not very intelligent because I beat him three games out of five the last time we played chess. As you know, there is no evidence whatsoever that "Lee Harvey Oswald" ever received foreign language training, and plenty of evidence that he didn't. If you want to see how good the evidence for two Oswalds really is, read the Marine Corps chapters from Harvey and Lee.