Jim Hargrove

As I keep saying, I’ve been reluctant to use Marina’s testimony in my arguments about Harvey’s Russian fluency because I think she was really put in a difficult position of having to hide her own English proficiency. But here’s another part of her HSCA testimony that I do tend to believe, because it was confirmed by George De Mohrenschildt. Mr. McDONALD. Did he read a lot when he was in the Soviet Union? Mrs. PORTER. Yes. Mr. McDONALD. What kind of books did he read there? Mrs. PORTER. Novels mostly. Mr. McDONALD. What kind of novels? Mrs. PORTER. What you call maybe as classical novels, some Russian classic writers. Mr. McDONALD. The novels or the books that he read in the Soviet Union, were they in Russian? Mrs. PORTER. They were in Russian; yes. And, of course, De Mohrenschildt added that “it amazed me that he read such difficult writers like Gorki, Dostoevski, Gogol, Tolstoi and Turgenieff - in Russian.” Harvey Oswald arrived in Russia on October 15, 1959 and married Marina April 30, 1961. Are we to believe that he taught himself enough Russian in a year and a half to read and discuss the “difficult writers” De M. talked about. Really?

Since you seem to have an unending curiosity about my formal foreign language training, Tommy, I’ll give you a brief summary. I took three years of Latin in high school, and then two years of German and two years of French in college. The last time I was in France (around Toulon on the Mediterranean), I couldn’t find a single local who understood much of anything I tried to say and I couldn’t make any sense at all of any of their blatherings. (As far as I can tell, no resident of France outside of Paris speaks, or admits to speaking, English.) Of course, similar to Harvey Oswald and his reading of the Russian classics and his discussions of them in Russian with De Mohrenschildt, I do enjoy reading Zola, Balzac, and Gide in the original French and discussing them in French with other French literati. LOL.

Could we get back to the questions at hand?

Michael, All this stuff about Marina proves nothing. As I said before, I don’t use the example of any of Marina's statements in my arguments for Harvey Oswald's Russian fluency because I think Marina was trying to minimize her own fluency in English while she was still living in Russia. She also met Robert Webster a few months before meeting “LHO” and Webster said she spoke English fluently, although with a heavy accent. I've presented the real evidence for Harvey's Russian fluency several times. With no evidence of ever having had any formal training in Russian whatsoever, how did he attain such fluency in it so quickly? How did he learn to write like this:

Mr. McDONALD. At this time you were speaking in Russian together? Mrs. PORTER. Yes. He spoke with accent so I assumed he was maybe from another state, which is customary in Russia. People from other states do speak with accents because they do not speak Russian. They speak different languages. Mr. McDONALD. So when you say another state, you mean another Russian state? Mrs. PORTER. Yes, like Estonia, Lithuania, something like that. Mr. McDONALD. Did you suspect at all that he was an American? Mrs. PORTER. No, not at all.

Joe, A few years after the assassination, Marina rather famously wrote that when she first met her future husband she thought he was from one of the Russian Baltic states because of his accent. The clear implication of her statement was that she believed “LHO” was born in the USSR. I don’t use this example in my arguments, however, because I think Marina was trying to minimize her own fluency in English while she was still living in Russia. She also met Robert Webster a few months before meeting “LHO” and Webster said she spoke English fluently, although with a heavy accent.

According to H&L critics, we're supposed to believe their opinions over the opinion of Yale University Slavic Language Department head Vladimir Petrov, who wrote that a letter supposedly written by Harvey Oswald was actually "written by a Russian with an imperfect knowledge of English." And, of course, we're supposed to believe that, while reading Russian magazines with a Russian-English dictionary in his spare time in the Marine Corps, and while working full time in a factory in Minsk and taking no known language courses, Harvey Oswald learned to write Russian like this: And, of course, we're supposed to assume that the H&L critics know more about Harvey Oswald's Russian abilities than his friend George De Mohrenschildt, a Russian immigrant who wrote the following in his manuscript entitled "I AM A PATSY! I AM A PATSY": Incidentally I never saw him interested in anything else except Russian books and magazines . He said he didn't want to forget the language - but it amazed me that he read such difficult writers like Gorki, Dostoevski, Gogol, Tolstoi and Turgenieff - in Russian. As everyone knows Russian is a complex language and he was supposed to have stayed in the Soviet Union only a little over two years. He must have had some previous training and that point had never been brought up by the Warren Committee - and it is still puzzling to me. In my opinion Lee was a very bright person but not a genius. He never mastered the English language yet he learned such a dif- icult language! I taught Russian at all level in a large University, and I never saw such a profficiency in the best senior students who constantly listened to Russian tapes and spoke to Russian friends . As a matter of fact American-born instructors never mastered Russian spoken language as well as Lee did. No doubt we're also supposed to believe the opinions of H&L critics over the opinions of other Russian immigrants around Dallas who met Harvey Oswald and shared their thoughts: Natalie Ray was asked by Commission attorney Wesley Liebeler, "Did he (Oswald) speak to you in Russian?" Mrs. Ray replied, "Yes; just perfect; re­ally surprised me ... it's just too good speaking Russian for be such a short time, you know.... I said, 'How come you speak so good Russian? I been here so long and still don't speak very well English." Mrs. Teofil (Anna) Meller was asked by Liebeler, "Do you think that his com­mand of the Russian language was better than you would expect for the period of time that he had spent in Russia?" Mrs. Meller replied, "Yes; absolutely better than I would expect." Peter Gregory told Warren Commission Representative Gerald Ford, "I thought that Lee Oswald spoke (Russian) with a Polish accent, that is why I asked him if he was of Polish decent." And on and on. No doubt H&L critics want us to believe that Harvey Oswald's Russian fluency was a natural result of his self-study in the Marines and his two and a half years in the USSR, but I don't believe it, and I think a whole lot of people without an axe to grind in this debate won't believe it either. And I haven't even mentioned above Harvey Oswald's obvious familiarity with the Russian language before he even "defected" to the Soviet Union.

Harvey Oswald’s ability to understand Russian, and his attempts to hide that fact, were noted by a Russian doctor during Oswald’s earliest days in the USSR. In October 1959 Harvey made a false suicide attempt hoping the act would help him complete his intel assignment in Russia. One of the doctors at Botkinskay Hospital in Moscow who attended him wrote, "The patient apparently understands the questions asked in Russian. Sometimes he answers correctly, but immediately states that he does not understand what he was asked." Harvey Oswald’s Russian fluency was noted by many people before he even “defected to the Soviet Union, including Rosaleen Queen and a number of Marines. This has been discussed many times before. Tracy Parnell has a writeup claiming Oswald didn’t hide his Russian language abilities while in the Soviet Union. Parnell relies heavily on a Russian fellow named Ernst Titovets, a person many researchers don’t trust. To see why, read the excellent article about him by researcher Milicent Cranor: http://whowhatwhy.org/2013/08/27/is-us-effort-to-block-oswald-friend-and-his-revelations-itself-a-further-deception/

Wonder what happened to that Southern drawl the kids all noticed during LEE Oswald's brief stay in New York City? But you're right about Harvey's spoken English. It was certainly better than his English writing skills. Sandy explained this well way back on the first page of this thread when he wrote: My ex-wife came to America from South Korea when she was about 7 years old. She spoke flawless English when I first met her about three years later. No accent. I think kids pick up new languages quickly. Sounds logical to me.

So, Tommy.... You believe the Warren Commission on the "moving to San Diego" note?

Tommy, Do you really believe the Official Story that an American-born high school student wrote the following? Becaus (sic) we are moving to San Diego in the middle of this month Lee must quit school now. Also, please send by him (sic) any papers such as his birth certificate that you may have. Thank you. Sincirely, (sic) Mrs. M. Oswald." [WCE1413, p. 814] Just askin'....

Bumped for Tommy

Bumped for Tommy.

Bumped for Tommy.

Take another look, Parnell. At least one of the mugshots here is an OBVIOUS pencil drawing. Can you spot it? A number of pictures here are NEITHER Harvey nor Lee. You can see them, right?

Please show me some actual EVIDENCE, Tommy. I think you know at least part of what my side has! Let's get a move on it!

Please, folks, at least watch Gil Jesus' 3-minute YouTube video (link above.) You'll know then who is telling you the truth and who is lying to you!!!!!

In the fall of 1953 LEE Oswald was attending the eighth grade at PS 44 in New York, while HARVEY Oswald and his caretaker/mother were living at 126 Exchange Place in New Orleans. HARVEY was enrolled in the eighth grade at Beauregard Junior High, and because he attended school part-time he was not assigned a home room. On page 817, of Warren Volume 22, there is a copy of Oswald's cumulative school records at Beauregard. The first row, highlighted in yellow, is the fall semester of 1953 and shows that Oswald attended a General Science class, a Physical Education class, and attended 89 days of school with only one absence. The second row is for the last half of the eighth grade (spring semester). The third row shows final grades, absences, and tardies for the entire 53-54 school year (eighth grade). Beauregard Record 1953 Beauregard JHS record showing HARVEY Oswald attended 89 days of school during the fall semester of 1953, at the same time LEE Oswald attended PS 44 in New York City. See HARVEY's complete attendance and grade information for the fall 1953 semester directly below. Wilfred Head, assistant principal at Warren Easton High School in New Orleans, provided HARVEY Oswald's grade and attendance records for Beauregard JHS (8th & 9th grade) and Warren Easton HS (10th grade) to the FBI. The record above shows HARVEY'S grades under "1953-54 REPORT 1" (General Science & Physical Education), which is the 1st half of the 1953-54 school year--the fall semester of 1953. The document above shows that HARVEY Oswald attended 89 days and was absent just one day in the 1953 fall semester at Beauregard JHS (1953-54 REPORT 1). The above record continues the text from the bottom of the page at left. Assistant Principal Wilfred Head advised the FBI that the abbreviation "Re ad," represented "Re Admitted" and added that the numbers set forth opposite these abbreviations would represent the total number of school days attended. HARVEY Oswald attended 89 days of school at Beauregard JHS during the fall semester of 1953. THE 3 DOCUMENTS ABOVE CLEARLY SHOW THAT OSWALD (HARVEY) ATTENDED BEAUREGARD JHS IN NEW ORLEANS IN THE FALL OF 1953 (HIGHLIGHTED IN YELLOW). THE NEW YORK CITY SCHOOL RECORD PUBLISHED BY THE WARREN COMMISSION (CE 1384), SHOWS THAT OSWALD (LEE) ATTENDED PS 44 IN NEW YORK CITY IN THE FALL OF 1953 (HIGHLIGHTED IN YELLOW). HARVEY WAS IN NEW ORLEANS, WHILE LEE WAS IN NEW YORK, FROM SEPTEMBER THROUGH DECEMBER, 1953. PLEASE RESPOND, TOMMY!

Tommy... It goes back to the USMC **AND** to 1947 on San Saba. Since you know that, why do you ask? Explain why "Lee Harvey Oswald" attended PS 44 in New York City and Beauregard JHS in New Orleans at the same time.

A point well taken, Glenn. I'll read your comments again in the morning. Thank you for responding.

Explain, please, Tommy!

Tommy?

Tommy?

Your opinion, Tommy?

Just wondering, Tommy, how you explain this?