Jim Hargrove

John, We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this. John A. and I both think the middle image two posts above was of LEE. It was published in Robert Oswald’s 1967 book, LEE, A Portrait of Lee Harvey Oswald. John A. believes it is LEE because it fits the time frame when he was on leave from the USMC. John believes these three pictures of LEE, showing the receding hairline, were taken on three consecutive years.

Joe, I sent the photo to John A. and he responded that he suspected the image was altered to show Harvey instead of Lee.

Nonsense. Harvey Oswald made the kind of grammatical mistakes you would expect from someone who learned Russian as a child but switched to English at a young age. And there is little doubt that he tried to hide his Russian fluency while he was in the Soviet Union. Before “Oswald” first set foot in the Soviet Union, while he was still in the U.S. Marine Corps, “it was a matter of common knowledge among squadron members that he could read, write, and speak Russian.” As soon as he arrived in Moscow, the Soviets realized he was a spy and decided to kick him out. In a desperate but brilliant move, “Oswald” faked a suicide attempt and was able to rescue his mission. Nevertheless, medics at Botkinskaya Hospital in Moscow who treated his wound realized that “The patient apparently understands the questions asked in Russian. Sometimes he answers correctly, but immediately states that he does not understand what was asked.” In Russia, “Oswald” tried to hide his fluency in Russian from almost everyone. Pulitzer Prize winning author Norman Mailer was among the earliest people to gain access to Russian Intel documents about “Oswald.” Mailer wrote that when “Oswald” arrived in Moscow by “Deluxe class,” he hired a personal tour guide named Rimma and, “He didn’t seem to know a single word in Russian, so Rimma spoke to him in English.” By the time he got to Minsk, “Oswald” continued to pretend he didn’t speak Russian. Mailer wrote, “People laughed at him when he talked. His Russian was so bad people laughed, not mocking, but friendly. He would try to pronounce words, get them wrong. They would laugh…. You have cows in America? You have pigs in America? He couldn’t understand their words, so they showed him with sign language, made animal sounds, and he laughed.” A Belarusian scientist named Stanislav Shushkevich was eventually assigned to teach “Oswald” the Russian language. A few years ago, Shushkevich was extensively interviewed by an American writer. There were, apparently, only a dozen or so lessons, and the teacher noted that “He didn’t appear to know a lot. He didn’t appear to want to know a lot.” Shushkevich added that he “knew very few words” in Russian. Shushkevich concluded that he real job (he didn’t speak English) was not to teach “Oswald” Russian, but “to see how much Russian Oswald really knew….” Nothing could be more obvious than the fact that “Oswald” tried to hide his Russian fluency while in the Soviet Union. Saying otherwise is merely attempting to hide the fact that he was a U.S. spy who successfully worked in the Soviet Union understanding everything that was said about him but pretending he barely understood a word. His brilliant and lengthy final report was published by the Warren Commission, hidden in plain sight for all these years. For much more on all of this, read Dr. James Norwood’s superb essay on my website: Oswald’s Proficiency in the Russian Language

John, Thank you for the montage above. It's a heckuva post! It should hardly surprise any of us that your visual analysis of the photographic record agrees precisely with John A's analysis of the written documentary record. According to both you and John A., LEE is LEE and HARVEY is HARVEY from two different perspectives. I always thought the surviving photographic record of "Lee Harvey Oswald" was too compromised to be of any use, but you have proved me wrong. Do you want to add the earlobe analysis, and anything else that occurs to you, to the above? Thanks again! I also wonder if Sandy Larsen would like to contribute anything to this.

That’s a reasonable question, Eddy. The purpose of the Mexico City charade seems to have been, ultimately, to blame the commies for JFK’s murder and therefore provoke an invasion of Cuba. The most likely reason for the Oswald Project, in my opinion, was to give a U.S. identity to a Russian-speaking youth who could then “defect” to the Soviet Union, walk around pretending to be unaware of conversations around him, but secretly comprehend all of it. And that appears to be exactly what happened, The H&L evidence comprises more than just a paper trail. There are plenty of eyewitnesses and mainstream news stories as well. I sincerely doubt it was just a file escapade to catch a mole.

A handful of instances of impersonation? There are at least that many in just the six weeks prior to the assassination, as well as evidence for at least that many instances of impersonation on the very day of the assassination! Mr. Bojczuk has demonstrated not the least bit of interest in why there is substantial evidence that “Lee Harvey Oswald” was perhaps the most impersonated fellow in the history of the world. The list of likely impersonations goes on and on, usually with highly credible written evidence. For example: For the fall semester of the 1953-54 school year, one Oswald attended Beauregard JHS in New Orleans for 89 school days while the other was enrolled in Public School 44 in New York City, where he was present for 62 full days and 5 half days, was absent 3 full days and 8 half days, for a total accounting of 78 days. These records are published in the Warren volumes. For the next semester, one Oswald was at Beauregard JHS in New Orleans while the other Oswald attended Stripling School in Texas. The Stripling records have all disappeared (confiscated according to Stripling’s assistant principal by the FBI the very next business day after the assassination). But a dozen or more newspaper articles have been printed over the years showing that one LHOs attendance at Stripling was common knowledge among faculty and students. The Ed Forum’s Sandy Larsen and John Butler have both recently added to the photographic evidence that one Oswald had one or more missing front teeth, but the Oswald exhumed decades later obviously had all his front teeth intact. The Social Security Administration did not include ANY of “Lee Harvey Oswald’s” teen-aged employment income in his “Lifetime Earnings Report” indicating in a cover letter it was including “Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report re employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps.” One Oswald departed for Taiwan aboard the USS Skagit on Sept. 14, 1958 and was stationed in Ping Tung, Taiwan on Oct. 6, 1958, at the very same time the other Oswald was being treated for venereal disease at Atsugi, Japan, nearly 1500 miles away. On the evening of 10/4/58, while one Oswald was still being treated for venereal disease in Japan, a second LHO was on guard duty at Ping-Tung, Taiwan, more than 1,400 miles away. That night, Lt. Charles Rhodes found Harvey slumped against a tree, visibly shaking and crying while holding his M-1 rifle across his lap. This Oswald had some story about seeing something in a clump of trees and, according to Rhodes, “kept saying he just couldn’t bear being on guard duty.” Lt. Rhodes reported this to author Edward Epstein (Legend, pp. 81-82). One Oswald appeared at the Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans while the other was in the Soviet Union. One Oswald had a driver’s license and was seen by many witnesses driving a car, and the other Oswald could not drive. Texas Employment Commission employee Laura Kittrell said on numerous occasions that she met two men claiming to be Lee Harvey Oswald in October 1963 and described their similarities and differences in some detail. On November 22, 1963, one Oswald left the Texas School Book Depository on a bus and then a taxi, and the other left in a Nash Rambler. There is much more evidence for this "handful of instances of impersonation" Mr. Bojczuk wants everyone to ignore, but I have prepared summaries of the evidence for all the above instances, if anyone who is still unconvinced is interested. Clearly, Mr. Bojczuk isn't interested. Mr. Bojczuk has never demonstrated the slightest curiosity about ANY of this. He does not even consider a simpler explanation for why "Lee Harvey Oswald" clearly appears to have been the most impersonated fellow in history. All he can do is lamely say people who believe there is something to this evidence are “paranoid” or wear “tin foil hats,” and, of course, say someone else somewhere else has debunked all this. No one has debunked ANY of it.

Thanks, Joe. I don’t recall ever seeing this photo, but it sure looks like John Wayne seated and facing us. I suppose the standing figure in the back is supposed to be Oswald? There certainly is a similarity. In January 1958, American-born LEE Oswald was on Corregidor and, despite what the FBI/Warren Commission wanted us to believe, Russian-speaking HARVEY Oswald was temporarily out of the USMC entirely and working for Pfisterers in New Orleans. I’ll email this photo to John A. and see what he thinks. Thanks again!

Laugh! Russian-speaking HARVEY Oswald didn’t act like much of a Marine, either. On the evening of 10/4/58, while American-born LEE Oswald was still being treated for venereal disease in Japan, Harvey was on guard duty at Ping-Tung, Taiwan, more than 1,400 miles away. That night, Lt. Charles Rose found Harvey slumped against a tree, visibly shaking and crying while holding his M-1 rifle across his lap. Harvey had some story about seeing something in a clump of trees and, according to Rhodes, “kept saying he just couldn’t bear being on guard duty.” This fairly famous incident may explain why young HARVEY Oswald spent much of his so-called military career living in New Orleans and working as a messenger boy for Pfisterer Dental Labs. EDIT: According to the USMC, LEE Oswald's VD was contracted "in the line of duty." Must have been an interesting assignment.

Ron, Both Oswalds were in the Marine Corps at approximately the same time, although Russian-speaking Harvey was in the Corps only sporadically. The most famous example of this is that Harvey travelled aboard the U.S.S. Skagit bound for the South China Sea and spent time on the island of Formosa (Taiwan) at the very same time American-born Lee Oswald was being treated for venereal disease in Japan. For the full story, see this John Armstrong write-up on my website: Marine Corps and the Soviet Union Here’s a synopsis of the well-known conflicting Marine data mentioned above from a write-up I did on the Ed Forum a while back: 3. The Marine Corps records are a gold mine: my favorite chronicles Harvey Oswald's trip to Formosa (Taiwan) while Lee was being treated for VD in Japan. HARVEY Oswald Departed for Taiwan Aboard the USS Skagit (AKA 105) on Sept. 14, 1958. Note "AKA 105" Under "Record of Events" near top left of this document: The Unit Diary below shows that HARVEY Oswald was in Ping Tung, Taiwan, on Oct. 6, 1958. Here’s a 1953 image of the ship Harvey Oswald took . Note the “K.A. 105” lettering by the bow. During this very same time Harvey was aboard the USS Skagit and stationed in Taiwan, LEE Oswald was being treated for V.D in Atsugi, Japan. From September 14 through October 6 HARVEY Oswald was in Taiwan. At the same time, from September 16 through October 6, LEE Oswald was in Japan. Medical records for NAS Navy 3835 (Naval Hospital), located in Atsugi, Japan, show numerous medical entries for LEE Oswald recorded on Sept 16, 20, 22, 23, 29, and Oct 6.. HARVEY Oswald's assignment in Taiwan, while LEE Oswald made numerous visits to the Naval Hospital in Japan, are an obvious "smoking gun."

What is sad is that some posters here are so desperate to dispute the two Oswald evidence that they seek to deny what has been clear for more than half a century. Mr. Bojczuk claims anyone who believes this evidence is “paranoid” and wears a “tin foil hat” and uses that sort of sophomoric rhetorical nonsense. Here’s another example of the evidence: In what appears to have been a test by the plotters to see if one Oswald could pass for the other under close scrutiny by a trained interviewer, Texas Employment Commission employee Laura Kittrell met the two Oswalds in October 1963 and described their similarities and differences in some detail, including in an 1978 interview with the HSCA’s Gaeton Fonzi. According to Mr. Fonzi, Ms. Kittrell felt the second Oswald she met “looked the same… the same general outline and coloring and build, but there was something so different in his bearing….” Ms. Kittrell made every effort to inform authorities in a timely manner about her encounter with the two Oswalds. As John A. said in a 1997 speech, Ms. Kittrell “gave a thirty-page statement to the U.S. Attorney in Dallas. Her statement was hand carried to the Warren Commission by the Secret Service. But her 30-page statement and subsequent 90-page manuscript in which she discusses her interviews of the two Oswalds, were ultimately ignored and suppressed.”

If you plan to assassinate a sitting President of the United States and get away with it, you simply must have a designated patsy . If you don't, the search for you will be relentless and you will eventually be caught. This already requires a rather elaborate conspiracy. Way back in the mid-1960s, Sylvia Meagher understood this simple fact when she noted that someone was probably deliberately impersonating "Lee Harvey Oswald" during the weeks leading up to the assassination. There's no reason whatsoever to debate whether there were two Oswalds. The only legitimate question is, How long did this game persist? From Accessories After the Fact by Sylvia Meagher:

By the way, back in 2015 Sandy Larsen proved that in 1963 Federal Reserve Bank regulations required Postal Money Orders to have bank endorsements stamped directly on them. Here is Sandy’s proof.

Steve, The money order “Record Locator” proves nothing. It could easily have been applied by whoever forged the Postal Money Order because it is a Post Office procedure. Saying the locator number proves the money order is genuine is like saying a counterfeit twenty dollar bill can’t be fake because it says, “IN GOD WE TRUST.” What couldn’t be faked were the bank endorsement stamps that should have appeared on the money order. That would have necessitated bringing banks into the conspiracy to fake the evidence. FBI informant/US postal inspector Harry Holmes, for example, had the ability to have a bogus money order prepared, including putting the locator number on it. He did not have the ability to bring banks into his little game. Harry Holmes, by the way, if memory serves is about the only person on earth who claimed to hear “Lee Harvey Oswald” say he went to Mexico.

Ray and Ron, You two are very punny! Here’s more to sink your teeth into about the physical differences between the two Oswalds. The man born as Lee Harvey Oswald was clearly taller and heavier than the man killed by Ruby. The USMC medical examination of 9/3/59, the Armed Forces Report of Transfer or Discharge dated 10/12/59, the Selective Service Registration card dated 9/14/59, and other documents all list this Oswald as 5’11” tall. But the autopsy report of “Lee Harvey Oswald,” as well as the 8/9/63 New Orleans Police Dept. Bureau of Identification report, and many other documents list his height as 5’9”. Hardly any reports list Oswald’s height as 5’10”.

Pretty creepy, isn’t it? The anti-H&L folks simply won’t believe what is right in front of their eyes. Why do we have such obvious evidence of two Oswalds? I think it is because the “classroom antics” photo of American-born LEE Oswald was sold directly to LIFE magazine by Ed Voebel. It didn’t first go through the FBI. Did J. Edgar Hoover try to bury the evidence of two Oswalds? Of course he did! Why else within hours of the hit did he send agents to New York, Louisiana, and Texas to confiscate early education and employment records of “Lee Harvey Oswald?” Why else did all those original records disappear? New York City officials wanted to know, but, of course, they were ignored. As the last paragraph of the document below shows, Hoover suspected there were two Oswalds as early as mid-1960. I’d like to thank you again for your work on the dental records of LEE Oswald. Among a number of other things, your discovery that he had a false tooth (or teeth) that was reported as failed by the Marine Corps on 5/5/58 was very significant. Why did we get to see this evidence? My guess is that someone at the FBI didn’t know what a “prosthesis” is, or simply didn’t recognize the significance of the notation. On discovering the evidence for two Oswalds, we’re mostly dependent on errors the FBI made trying to cover it up. It is amazing how much evidence survived. Making an entire life disappear is tricky business!

For JFK researchers and other people intensely interested in the assassination, I couldn’t agree more. But I do think that, for average people with only a passing interest in the case, asking them to read and comprehend Harvey and Lee is asking a lot. Heck, I’ve been studying John’s tome more than anything else for more than 15 years and I still can’t remember lots of details in it. For history’s sake, I’d like to see a reasonably complete but easier-to-read summary of H&L for just plain everyday folks. With the exception of the relatively brief material on Judyth Baker, Doppelganger by Dr. George Schwimmer fits the bill nicely, at least in my opinion. I haven’t read Pat Shannan’s book yet. The support of a researcher/author of your stature is most appreciated!

With his usual flurry of links, Mr. Bojczuk illustrates quite correctly that there is a cottage industry of people trying hard to debunk Harvey and Lee. And it is easy to see why. Interest in John Armstrong’s work has simply been exploding in recent years. Just two feature-film length video talks by John Armstrong posted on YouTube by “MrChrillemannen” have a total of more than half a million views. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMAc7WKMP2c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j89ajt6nA8 Even more significantly, recently at least three books have been published, two based almost exclusively on Harvey and Lee, and one based partly on it. Three other books based on “Harvey and Lee:” The JFK Assassination and the Uncensored Story of the Two Oswalds From an Amazon review: “I'd read a good chunk of Armstrong's Harvey and Lee, but Shannan provided clarity for me on the matter of Marguerite Oswald in particular and the whole thesis in general. So much easier to read this digest than the master's unedited tome.” DOPPELGANGER: The Legend of Lee Harvey Oswald From the publisher’s blurb: “More than 300 sources, including many sworn testimonies & affidavits, were consulted, as well as John Armstrong’s massive research project HARVEY AND LEE. One fact led to another, until a coherent picture began to emerge from the immense pile of puzzle pieces…. That picture includes the background of Harvey as a juvenile immigrant fluent in Russian, and the creation of the second ‘Lee Harvey Oswald’ and the second ‘Marguerite Oswald.’ The picture continues with the recruitment of both Lee Oswald and Harvey Oswald by the ONI and the CIA, followed by Harvey’s assumption of Lee’s identity, his ‘defection’ to Russia, and Lee’s involvement with the Cuban revolution and the CIA..…” Mistaken Identity From the publisher’s blurb: "New forensic and evidentiary material not published, proves that two individuals known as "Lee Harvey Oswald" enlisted in the U.S. Marines in 1956 using the same birth certificate. Recent genealogical research identifies them as second cousins through intermarriage of second-generation French families in New Orleans. It created a nightmare of identity for the FBI." If the Harvey and Lee Menace® is ever going to be crushed, the H&L critics need to work MUCH harder!

Oh brother, indeed! Mr. Lifton's article linked above is about an X-ray. The PHOTO above is not an X-ray. The PHOTO above was handed to John Armstrong by Marina Oswald, who gave John all the original exhumation photos in her possession during one of their meetings. John made high-quality copies of them before he returned them to Marina. Please get your facts straight!

The exhumation was conducted because Michael Eddowes, author of Khrushchev Killed Kennedy, “alleged that a ‘look-alike’ Soviet agent had killed Kennedy, not Oswald. Eddowes believed the KGB had trained a body-double named Alec to assume Oswald’s identity.” In truth, a Russian-speaking boy was involved in a long-term U.S. intel project to give an American identity (LHO) to a Russian-speaking youth. As part of the program, this LHO went to American schools, held American jobs and even served, sporadically, in the U.S.M.C. at around the same time as the young man who was born as Lee Harvey Oswald. Given Marine Corps records of the second LHO, the autopsy proved that the cadaver that had been exhumed was indeed the remains of Lee Harvey Oswald, which is true. The second Lee Harvey Oswald, that is. One of the photographs taken during the exhumation makes it easy to see that the exhumed Oswald was not the same as the birth Oswald. The missing front tooth is a particularly simple illustration of the differences between the two Oswalds. In the fall of 1954, Ed Voebel became acquainted with LEE Oswald after he witnessed him in a fight with Johnny and Mike Neumeyer (9th grade). The fight lasted a long time and was witnessed and remembered by several students at Beauregard. After the fight Voebel and two friends got some ice for (LEE) Oswald and attempted to patch him up. Mr. JENNER. But you do remember that you attempted to help him when he was struck in the mouth on that occasion; is that right? Mr. VOEBEL. Yes; I think he even lost a tooth from that. I think he was cut on the lip, and a tooth was knocked out. --Warren Commission: Vol. 8, Page 3 Voebel himself snapped the photo of Oswald and his missing tooth, which he eventually sold to LIFE magazine for $75. Of course, the 1981 exhumation photos clearly show that Classic Oswald® (Russian-speaking Harvey) had no missing front tooth.

John, Your explanation is appreciated, but I’ve believed since our first discussions that you have some obvious expertise recognizing facial details in images. That’s why we’re having this discussion about photos allegedly of LHO in Russia. Beyond those photos, I see no other evidence that there was more than one American in Russia claiming to be LHO during this time frame. Since you disagree, I’m hoping you can provide more evidence beyond the photos, although there is little doubt that the photos are significant. You ask, “why have a double spy program if you don't use your double spies in the same locations?” and, to me at least, the answer is that the spy doubles provide easy deniability for intel ops in wide ranging locations. For example, if one Oswald was in Minsk on January 20, 1961, how could the VERY SAME OSWALD make a scene at the Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans on the very same day? The answer the Agency wanted us all to believe is that it never happened, at least not involving “LEE Harvey Oswald.” Ain't DENIABILITY great?

Right, but of course it was American-born LEE Oswald who spent all that time near the U2s in Atsugi, Japan. Russian-speaking HARVEY Oswald was at Atsugi, most likely, for a matter of hours, and most of that time apparently in the brig. It was HARVEY who “defected” to Russia. Part of the cleverness of the whole project was that, no matter how harshly Harvey might have been interrogated, he probably knew few details about the U2 to give the Soviets, although the whole thing apparently fooled Francis Gary Powers. Read the center column in his article, ‘WAS I BETRAYED BY LEE HARVEY OSWALD?”

John, I see what you mean about the chins. They do look different, but could this be a byproduct of lighting, different lenses and camera angles and that sort of thing? The biggest problem with considering multiple LHOs in Russia, at least ones sponsored by U.S. intel, is why in heck would the Russian’s allow it? Harvey Oswald had to slit his wrist to stay after the Soviets obviously saw through his “defector” ruse. They would allow another guy named LHO to enter from the U.S? Very hard for me to believe.

Gotta love those graphics! Margaret Keating (now along with Aminthe Voitier) appears to be a serious candidate for the Marguerite Oswald impostor. John A. discovered that “The name Margaret Keating and her address, 120 N. Telemachus Street, appear in New Orleans City Directories, telephone books, voter registration records, etc., from 1933 thru the early 1960s.” But the one exception was the 1956 New Orleans City Directory, which listed “Margt. Oswald” at that address. The same directory lists “Marguerite Oswald” at 126 Exchange Pl. Two Marguerite Oswalds, one abbreviated as “Margt?” Mrs. Keating hadn’t used that name since 1933, when she divorced Robert Oswald. One thing I don’t understand is this listing, reproduced on the H&L CD, which shows just “Margt Oswald” on Telemachus, not “Marguerite Oswald” on Exchange Pl. It must not be the 1956 listing. Here’s a recent Google image of 120 N. Telemachus.

John, Neither of us trusts the photographic record, but I wondered what your thoughts are about the images below. They are most of the Oswald mugshots allegedly from the USSR included in the “Evolution of LHO” poster Jack White and John A. made. (Sorry about the quality. I used my phone to photograph parts of the poster hanging on my office wall.) Do you think these photos all show the same person?

Agree totally with your assessment of Mysterious Marge. Please note that my description of the Agency doc above was incorrect. It is really a 31-page study of Marina, not Marguerite. If you're interested, though, you can start reading it here: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=96209#relPageId=1&tab=page Here is an interesting excerpt from page 19: "She said later that upon hearing of the assassination, she had fearfully gone to see if his blanket-wrapped rifle was still in its place--which it appeared to be. Then when the police came and asked her if OSWALD had a gun, she (probably gladly) admitted it and led them to it. Witnesses stated that she appeared really surprised when the rifle's shape in the blanket turned out to be empty. She also cooperated with the police by giving them a picture of her husband holding such a rifle." That about settles it, eh?