Jim Hargrove

David, What two images are you comparing? The scope and the rifle are aligned parallel to each other in not one but two different dimensions. Differences in camera angles will not alter the proportion of rifle length to scope length. Show nearly identical rifles at the same length in a comparison image, regardless of variations in the camera angle for each individual rifle, and identical scopes will also be the same length. You cannot say there is a “standard cheap scope” for any rifle, including the Carcano, that was sold both with and without an optical scope, as Kleins clearly did. Many different scopes could be mounted on a rifle without a scope by someone such as… uh… Dial Ryder. The scope is CLEARLY shorter in the BYP below, but I think John B. was onto something when he looked at other slight differences between, not only the scope, but also the rifles. The Italian makers apparently did not completely standardize the construction of various Caracnos. There were minor differences, as John Butler has noted. As John Armstrong and I originally noted, the differences in the lengths of the two scopes are significant.

By October 1963 the war between JFK and the CIA had spilled over into the pages of the Washington Daily News and the New York Times. Kennedy Administration officials complained that CIA agents had infiltrated the military. One official, published in Washington and New York newspapers, predicted the possibility of a CIA coup d’état, just weeks before the CIA coup d’état actually occurred. Why do we deny the reality that has been staring us in the face for more than 50 years? Here’s the original Richard Starnes piece from 10/2/63 that so appalled the Times' Arthur Krock: 'SPOOKS' MAKE LIFE MISERABLE FOR AMBASSADOR LODGE 'Arrogant' CIA Disobeys Orders in Viet Nam By Richard T. Starnes SAIGON, Oct.2 - The story of the Central Intelligence Agency's role in South Viet Nam is a dismal chronicle of bureaucratic arrogance, obstinate disregard of orders, and unrestrained thirst for power. Twice the CIA flatly refused to carry out instructions from Ambassador Henry Cabot Lodge, according to a high United States source here. In one of these instances the CIA frustrated a plan of action Mr. Lodge brought with him from Washington because the agency disagreed with it. This led to a dramatic confrontation between Mr. Lodge and John Richardson, chief of the huge CIA apparatus here. Mr. Lodge failed to move Mr. Richardson, and the dispute was bucked back to Washington. Secretary of State Dean Rusk and CIA Chief John A. McCone were unable to resolve the conflict, and the matter is now reported to be awaiting settlement by President Kennedy. It is one of the developments expected to be covered in Defense Secretary Robert McNamara's report to Mr. Kennedy. Others Critical, Too Other American agencies here are incredibly bitter about the CIA. "If the United States ever experiences a 'Seven Days in May' it will come from the CIA, and not from the Pentagon," one U.S. official commented caustically. ("Seven Days in May" is a fictional account of an attempted military coup to take over the U.S. Government.) CIA "spooks" (a universal term for secret agents here) have penetrated every branch of the American community in Saigon, until non-spook Americans here almost seem to be suffering a CIA psychosis. An American field officer with a distinguished combat career speaks angrily about "that man at headquarters in Saigon wearing a colonel's uniform." He means the man is a CIA agent, and he can't understand what he is doing at U.S. military headquarters here, unless it is spying on other Americans. Another American officer, talking about the CIA, acidly commented: "You'd think they'd have learned something from Cuba but apparently they didn't." Few Know CIA Strength Few people other than Mr. Richardson and his close aides know the actual CIA strength here, but a widely used figure is 600. Many are clandestine agents known only to a few of their fellow spooks. Even Mr. Richardson is a man about whom it is difficult to learn much in Saigon. He is said to be a former OSS officer, and to have served with distinction in the CIA in the Philippines. A surprising number of the spooks are known to be involved in their ghostly trade and some make no secret of it. "There are a number of spooks in the U.S. Information Service, in the U.S. Operations mission, in every aspect of American official and commercial life here, " one official - presumably a non-spook - said. "They represent a tremendous power and total unaccountability to anyone," he added. Coupled with the ubiquitous secret police of Ngo Dinh Nhu, a surfeit of spooks has given Saigon an oppressive police state atmosphere. The Nhu-Richardson relationship is a subject of lively speculation. The CIA continues to pay the special forces which conducted brutal raids on Buddhist temples last Aug. 21, altho in fairness it should be pointed out that the CIA is paying these goons for the war against communist guerillas, not Buddhist bonzes (priests). Hand Over Millions Nevertheless, on the first of every month, the CIA dutifully hands over a quarter million American dollars to pay these special forces. Whatever else it buys, it doesn't buy any solid information on what the special forces are up to. The Aug. 21 raids caught top U.S. officials here and in Washington flat-footed. Nhu ordered the special forces to crush the Buddhist priests, but the CIA wasn't let in on the secret. (Some CIA button men now say they warned their superiors what was coming up, but in any event the warning of harsh repression was never passed to top officials here or in Washington.) Consequently, Washington reacted unsurely to the crisis. Top officials here and at home were outraged at the news the CIA was paying the temple raiders, but the CIA continued the payments. It may not be a direct subsidy for a religious war against the country's Buddhist majority, but it comes close to that. And for every State Department aide here who will tell you, "Dammit, the CIA is supposed to gather information, not make policy, but policy-making is what they're doing here," there are military officers who scream over the way the spooks dabble in military operations. A Typical Example For example, highly trained trail watchers are an important part of the effort to end Viet Cong infiltration from across the Laos and Cambodia borders. But if the trailer watchers spot incoming Viet Congs, they report it to the CIA in Saigon, and in the fullness of time, the spooks may tell the military. One very high American official here, a man who has spent much of his life in the service of democracy, likened the CIA's growth to a malignancy, and added he was not sure even the White House could control it any longer. Unquestionably Mr. McNamara and Gen. Maxwell Taylor both got an earful from people who are beginning to fear the CIA is becoming a Third Force co-equal with President Diem's regime and the U.S. Government - and answerable to neither. There is naturally the highest interest here as to whether Mr. McNamara will persuade Mr. Kennedy something ought to be done about it. And here’s Krock’s infamous defense of the CIA from the pages of the New York Times:

From the article: "The CIA planned and staged JFK’s assassination. It was a palace coup, a coup d’état, the murder of a leader by forces within his own government, like Caesar and his senators." Amen. Megathanks to Dr. Miller for his understanding of Harvey and Lee and for his kind words about John Armstrong's book and our website.

This is particularly interesting because I was under the impression that Butch Burroughs first talked about “Oswald’s” “double” at the Texas Theater during his 2007 interview with James Douglass. But he clearly talked about it much earlier. Thanks to Bart and Malcolm for this.

Megathanks, John! Best clue I've seen so far. I'll concentrate on getting the March 2, 1964 edition of Newsweek.

The official homicide report for J.D. Tippitt also says, “Suspect was later arrested in the balcony of the Texas Theatre at 231 W. Jefferson.” This document and the one above both appear on page 1 of this thread.

To Ron B--Thanks very much to those links to historic shots of the Texas Theater. I’d never seen several of them before. Very helpful.

Cory, Perhaps, but it all depends on exactly when Ruby was at Parkland. The hospital is only about a ten minute or so drive from the Texas Theater, so depending on the specifics, Ruby could easily have been at both places. At first thought this may seem like a preposterous coincidence, but it turns out that Ruby was far more intimately involved in the plot than we were led to believe. He was a friend of Hardy’s Shoe Store employee Tommy Rowe, who appears to have been involved in the plot to frame Classic Oswald® and get police to the theater. The fact that only one witness claimed to see Ruby at the theater is yet another reason to have questioned everyone there.

Megathanks for this, Paul. Just to make sure no one will miss this, on live WFAA television Ron Reiland said, "About this time there was another report came in that there was a man who had walked into the Texas Theater further down the block with a shotgun over his arm...."

David, Thank you for your posts. You say we all need to become acquainted with the SHANEYFELT exhibits, but I’m not sure what the point is. Even if we accept that in the LIFE BYP “the entire area around the scope was lightened to bring out the scope,” how does this account for the fact that the scope is actually SHORTER in the LIFE magazine photo than in CE 139? What in Shaneyfelt explains that? Rather than have part of itself disappear, the scope should be clearer in the LIFE version, should it not? As you can see from the above, you can visually detect the slight fold in the dark shirt immediately to the viewer’s left of the scope, but the scope is clearly shorter in the LIFE illustration, as shown below. Since the rifles are the same lengths, the scopes should also be the same lengths. Minor variations in camera angles don’t change the proportions of scope length to rifle length. What do you make of the statement, “The assumption the WC has the negative is slightly amusing….”? Also, your inclusion of McCabe's letter to Rankin is VERY much appreciated! His confession that his NEWSWEEK photo editors accidentally erased the scope is pretty damned funny... though that doesn't entirely mean it isn't true. Why, though, am I suspicious? Call me paranoid? Your help is most appreciated!!

It’s certainly your right to mock any of the witnesses you chose, but at the same time how about at least giving a Bronx Cheer to the authorities who didn’t even bother to keep a list of theater patrons who witnessed the arrest of “Lee Harvey Oswald.” These were critical witnesses! These witnesses could have told us when they thought “Oswald” appeared inside the theater (which is hotly debated now), how he behaved inside, whether he resisted arrest and/or tried to shoot a cop, and whether anyone else was arrested or otherwise escorted out of the theater by police, among other issues. EVERY ONE OF THESE WITNESSES SHOULD HAVE BEEN QUESTIONED IN DETAIL! But no one bothered even to keep a list of their names! Is it unreasonable to leap to the conclusion that the authorities were hiding something? Why do private researchers such as Jim Marrs, John Armstrong, and James Douglass have to try to track these people down? Only a few have been located, among them Jack Davis. Below is a note Mr. Davis sent to John A. making a minor correction about where he was seated when he saw “Oswald” moving around in such an odd manor in the theater. He also said he saw “Oswald” get up and walk back into the lobby right around the time Burroughs said he sold him popcorn (which just happens to be the alleged time the WC wants us to believe Tippit was killed). These witnesses could not be allowed to testify!

Thanks, but I have the Feb. 21, 1964 issue of LIFE. One of the photos near the top of this thread was scanned from my copy. I'm looking for the April 22, 1964 edition of Newsweek magazine, which supposedly included the picture of "Oswald's" rifle sent out via AP wirephoto service and shown here (click on the image below to enlarge): I'm studying on eBay the other Newsweek pub dates you mentioned. Thanks again.

John, You’ve really put your finger on several key issues John A. and I have been discussing for years. On the Murder of J.D. Tippit page on our website, John wrote: According to researcher Leo Sauvage (who interviewed Dallas Assistant District Attorney Jim Bowie), "there were over a half-dozen anonymous phone calls made to the Dallas Police advising that a suspicious man had gone into the Texas Theater." I'll bet one of these phone calls was made by Tommy Rowe, a very close friend of Jack Ruby's. For several reasons, I doubt it was Westbrook or Croy who made any of the calls, but your point remains. My belief is that this was an elaborately conceived and executed plot, both to kill JFK and to set up “Oswald” as the patsy, which included murdering Tippit. My bet is there were plans and backup plans. The planned murder of Tippit had several goals. First was to provide an excuse to link the Oswald/Hidell wallet allegedly found at 10th and Patton (but probably provided by Tippit’s killer to Westbrook) to Classic Oswald®. The second was to link the bullet’s that killed Tippit to “Oswald’s” pistol, which was probably switched when it stayed by Westbrook in DPD headquarters for more than an hour. And lastly, the plan was to lead Dallas cops, angered by the killing of Tippit, to the Texas Theater. If the Sauvage/Bowie account is correct about the multiple calls, then this was just done as a complement to it, sort of proving the point. What the plotters could never get quite right (because they were juggling two Oswalds) was the minute-by-minute timing. That’s why the police radio timestamps had to be altered, why Tippit had to be shot at 10th and Patton at the exact same time he was pronounced dead at Methodist Hospital, and why the identifications of the theater patrons had to disappear.

Ron, This is from memory, but I think John A. said there was an FBI report that “Oswald’s” pistol had a bent firing pin. And another report saying it fired properly. Are we to believe that it had a defective pin in the theater but a working one at 10th and Patton minutes earlier? It doesn’t make any sense.

John, Thank you! Why didn’t I think of e-Bay? I’ll start checking. Don’t know if “Oswald” and the rifle were on the Newsweek cover. Thanks again!

Chris, I'm not having much luck locating (or confirming the existence of) the April 22, 1964 edition of Newsweek. If anyone who happens to read this knows how to obtain a copy, I'd love to hear from you.

Cory, But as I said, Jack Davis, sitting in the back row, pretty much corroborated Burroughs’ popcorn statement when he said that “Oswald” went into the lobby and came back into the theater “20 minutes or so” before the police arrived. It is simple to understand why the authorities lost the list of theater patrons. Main Floor Oswald created a scene by moving from patron to patron, undoubtedly seeking a contact he was told he could find there. Several, perhaps most, of the patrons would have noticed Main Floor Oswald moving from seat to seat inside the theater too early to have killed Tippit, especially at the falsified time of 1:15, but even at the real time as well, most likely 1:06-1:08. You keep saying the balcony Oswald was arrested, and now you conclude that he would not have been let go by the policemen who may have encountered him on the balcony stairs. But despite the two police reports, it is not at all clear that Balcony Oswald was really arrested. That would surely produce too much paperwork. It appears more likely that he was given a false alibi by a “manager on duty” who didn’t exist and then hustled out of the theater, I believe under Captain Westbrook’s order. Balcony Oswald's job, to lead enraged cops to the theater to encounter Main Floor Oswald, was done. Perhaps you’re looking at this whole thing as a normal cops and robbers case through an attorney’s practiced eye, but this case was anything but normal. There was an enormous cover-up orchestrated by J. Edgar Hoover and there were a handful of dirty cops in Dallas who, in one way or another, were probably involved in the plot.

The Dallas police lost the list of patrons at the Texas Theater when “Oswald” was being arrested. Such an insignificant event!! What were they afraid of? Since it is up to private citizens to do the job the authorities didn’t, a number of researchers found and interviewed Jack Davis, who, as an 18-year-old young man, was sitting in the back row of the theater at the time. Davis thought it odd when “Oswald” chose a seat adjacent to him in a 900-seat theater, and then got up to sit next to another patron. Davis confirms Burroughs’ statement when he said he saw Oswald get up from another seat and walk to the theater’s lobby. Davis said it was about 20 minutes or so later when the house lights went up and the cops arrived.

From Jim Douglass: According to Warren H. “Butch” Burroughs, the concession stand operator at the Texas Theater, Lee Harvey Oswald entered the theater sometime between 1:00 and 1:07 P.M., several minutes before Officer Tippit was slain seven blocks away.[428] If true, Butch Burroughs’s observation would eliminate Oswald as a candidate for Tippet’s murder. Perhaps for that reason, Burroughs was asked by a Warren Commission attorney the apparently straightforward question, “Did you see [Oswald] come in the theater?” and answered honestly, “No, sir; I didn’t.”[429] What someone reading this testimony would not know is that Butch Burroughs was unable to see anyone enter the theater from where he was standing at his concession stand, unless that person came into the area where he was working. As he explained to me in an interview, there was a partition between his concession stand and the front door. Someone could enter the theater, go directly up a flight of stairs to the balcony, and not be seen from the concession stand.[430] That, Burroughs said, is what Oswald apparently did. However, Burroughs still knew Oswald had come into the theater “between 1:00 and 1:07 P.M.” because he saw him inside the theater soon after that. As he told me, he sold popcorn to Oswald at 1:15 P.M.[431]—information that the Warren Commission did not solicit from him in his testimony. When Oswald bought his popcorn at 1:15 P.M., this was exactly the same time the Warren Report said Officer Tippit was being shot to death[432]—evidently by someone else.

Deputy Sheriff Bill Courson wrote, “I started up the stairs of the balcony because that is where the call said that he was hiding. I'm reasonably satisfied in my own mind that I met Oswald coming down. I was looking for a man in a white or light colored jacket because at that time I hadn't been told that he had discarded the jacket and that it had been found.” He added that the man was wearing a patterned shirt. Deputy Sheriff Buddy Walthers saw Cunningham, Taylor, and Toney questioning a young white man on the stairs. These men were told by the “manager on duty” that the young man “had been in the theater since about 12:05 pm” and so they released him. The information was erroneous. The theater didn’t open until 12:45, and manager John Callahan left before the police arrived. The only employees present were Postal, Burroughs, and the projectionist, none of whom identified themselves as the “manager on duty.” Who provided this man with a false alibi? If this is the same guy who was led out the back door and put in a squad car, I don't know if it should be considered an arrest or not, despite the two Dallas Police reports that say Oswald was arrested in the balcony.

CAPT. WESTBROOK, with Lee Oswald's wallet, DRIVES TO 10TH & PATTON Around 1:36 PM Capt. Westbrook left the parking lot and drove a few blocks west to the library, in response to a report that a suspicious man was seen entering the building. After Sgt. Owens reported it was the wrong man at the library Capt. Westbrook drove to the Tippit murder scene for the first time. Westbrook's reason for driving to 10th & Patton was to show fellow police officers the wallet given to him a half hour earlier by LEE Oswald. Identification in this wallet would identify "Lee Harvey Oswald" as the prime suspect in the murder of officer Tippit. Identification for Alek Hidell would link Oswald/Hidell to the rifle found on the 6th floor of the TSBD. There were now many police and dozens and dozens of on-lookers with whom Westbrook could mingle. Hopefully, nobody would recognize Westbrook as the man who was with LEE Oswald when Tippit was shot and killed. Between 1:38 PM and 1:40 PM Capt. Westbrook arrived at 10th & Patton and ordered officers to search the area west of the shooting scene (in the direction of the Texas Theater). He then began showing fellow officers the 2nd Oswald wallet. A few minutes later (1:42 PM) crime lab officers George Doughty, W.E. Barnes, and Paul Bentley arrived and inspected the wallet produced by Westbrook. FBI Agent Bob Barrett arrived, parked his car, and walked toward Tippit's patrol car. Barrett explained, "I went on over there and Captain Westbrook was there with several of his officers.... It hadn't been very long when Westbrook looked up and saw me and called me over. He had this wallet in his hand. Now, I don't know where he found it, but he had the wallet in his hand... the wallet was there. There's no getting around that. Westbrook had the wallet in his hand and asked me if I knew who these people were. I'm adamant that there was a wallet in somebody's hand and (Westbrook) asked me if I knew who 'Lee Harvey Oswald' was and who 'Hidell' were." As Westbrook showed the wallet to Barrett and fellow DPD officers WFAA-TV (Channel 😎 news photographer Ron Reiland filmed the event. In the photo below Sgt. Bud Owens is holding the wallet and Capt. Doughty is looking at the wallet. Westbrook's possession of the wallet shows that he knew LEE Oswald, and knew about the pre-planned assassination of Officer Tippit. About 4-5 minutes after arriving at 10th & Patton Capt. Westbrook reclaimed the wallet and returned to the parking lot behind the Texaco Station. NOTE: Identification from the wallet guaranteed that HARVEY Oswald was the prime suspect in the murder of Officer Tippit and President Kennedy. If HARVEY Oswald had not been found in the Texas Theater, a nationwide manhunt would have begun for the former "defector," the "communist" supporter of Castro, the man (Hidell) who ordered a 6.5 mm Mannlicher-Carcano from Klein's, the man who ordered a .38 revolver from SeaPort traders, the man who left the TSBD after President Kennedy was shot, and the man whose identification was found in a wallet at the Tippit murder scene. The wallet produced by Westbrook at the Tippit murder scene is the best single piece of evidence that proves both conspiracy and the framing of HARVEY Oswald. This wallet was never initialed by DPD officers, never entered into evidence, never turned over to the identification bureau or homicide department, never mentioned in police reports or FBI reports or discussed with the Warren Commission. This wallet, shown to officers for only a few minutes, was last seen in Westbrook's hands and then disappeared. A frame from Ron Reiland's WFAA newsreel footage Both Westbrook and Croy were interviewed by the WC, but neither man discussed the wallet with the FBI, WC, or anyone at any time. In 1996 Croy, for the first time, told researchers that an "unknown witness" gave him gave the wallet, which he then gave to Westbrook. It should not surprise anyone to learn there is no existing evidence to support or verify his claim. Not one witness, not one ambulance driver, not one neighbor, and not one bystander nor anyone saw a wallet lying on the street, in Tippit's car or anywhere. Ted Calloway arrived before Tippit's body was loaded in the ambulance. Callaway said, "I'll tell you one thing, there was no billfold at that scene. If there was, there would have been too many people who would have seen it." Because of their actions and involvement at 10th & Patton, we now know that Westbrook, Croy, and LEE Oswald conspired to murder Officer Tippit, and frame HARVEY Oswald for the crime. For the whole story, SEE HERE!

From the Dallas Police Department: From the CIA:

The plotters sent the look-alike (let's call him "Lee") to 10th and Patton to murder J.D. Tippit, and then, after giving his gun, jacket, and wallet containing Oswald and Hidell ID's to Captain Westbrook, Lee went to the Texas Theater, was told to make a scene entering it to lead police there, where the other Oswald (let's call him "Harvey") had already been inside for 10 minutes or so. NOVEMBER 22, 1963

Thanks, Micah! VERY nice summary.

You guys forgot to finish the relevant part of Brewer's 1964 testimony! He didn't go out into the alley, he wasn't taken into the alley and a squad car by police. Let's see exactly what he did do. I'll put in boldface the part you forgot: Mr. BREWER - I heard a noise outside, and I opened the door, and the alley, I guess it was filled with police cars and policemen were on the fire exits and stacked around the alley, and they grabbed me, a couple of them and held and searched me and asked me what I was doing there, and I told them that there was a guy in the theatre that I was suspicious of, and he asked me if he was still there. And I said, yes, I just seen him. And he asked me if I would point him out. And I and two or three other officers walked out on the stage and I pointed him out, and there were officers coming in from the front of the show, I guess, coming toward that way, and officers going from the back. Then, of course, Brewer went on for a lengthy discussion of "Lee Harvey Oswald's" arrest, which he says he witnessed in its entirety from inside the theater. You guys forgot to mention that.