Jim Hargrove

Still trying to catch up here, so forgive me if this has already been asked and answered, but is there anyone who can confirm Brewer’s bizarre story of the “two IBM men?” Tommy Rowe (who also worked at Hardy’s Shoes) or anyone else? Frankly, I see little reason to believe this story. I don’t think Brewer saw either Oswald going into the theater. He claimed to hear the police reports (which described a subject in a white jacket and white shirt) yet somehow connected this with the long-sleeve brown-shirted Classic Oswald®? He allegedly even told Postal the suspect was wearing a brown shirt. Michah M. wrote a nice summary of some of the other problems with Brewer early in this thread. The whole Brewer tale never made any sense. Nor, to me, does the saga of these “IBM men” sound the least bit credible, other than as a convenient excuse for Brewer’s role in capturing “Lee Harvey Oswald.” Just my opinion, but it seems to me as likely as anything else that Brewer just made them up. Again, does anyone know of any confirmation about these mysterious “IBM men?”

According to a 1967 Time magazine cover story, CIA actions had "more in common with IBM’s 360 than with Ian Fleming’s 007.” https://time.com/4669239/1967-cia-cover-story/

Paul, Fascinating post. Thank you! I had always assumed the second “Oswald” arrived at the theater to lure the cops there (though John A. was never so certain of that). Your theory about getting the pistol into Classic Oswald’s® hands does seem possible; it had just never occurred to me before. Also, you mentioned “repeated, anonymous calls from someone within the theater itself.” Can you say what led you to this conclusion? It’s clear that ADA Jim Bowie told Leo Sauvage there were “over a half-dozen anonymous phone calls made to the Dallas Police advising that a suspicious man had gone into the Texas Theater," but I don’t believe anything was said about where these calls originated. Thanks again for your post. Much to think about in it.

John, John A. argues that the other “Oswald” seen by Laura Kittrell was NOT Larry Crafard because, among other reasons, Crafard had terrible teeth. Since Kittrell reported that this other “Oswald” had a boisterous voice and laughed heartily, his dental problems should have been immediately obvious to her. As for the image of the fellow watching the stripper, John K. points out that he appears bigger than Classic Oswald®, which is what John Armstrong has been saying all along. We think the man who worked with Ruby was American-born LEE Oswald, who was about two inches taller and at least twenty pounds heavier than Russian-speaking HARVEY Oswald, the man killed by Ruby.

Ken, John A. has talked to me and others about this for decades. John and I are both convinced that some day this will be done, but it has to be done properly. In one of the first research tasks I ever undertook at John’s request (back in the 1990s), he said, “Whatever you do, Jim, don’t let anyone know this is about ‘Lee Harvey Oswald.’" He added that, "Whenever people find out something is about Oswald, things get weird.” (He wanted me to get a typography expert’s opinion about three different W-2 forms from three different employers from the 1950s, all allegedly issued to Oswald.) And so I had to completely black out the “Lee Harvey Oswald” name on excellent copies of the forms John acquired directly at the National Archives. John said things like, “Make sure you can’t hold the form up to the light and see what is blacked out,” and “Make sure you can’t scratch off the black ink.” I’m sure you understand how anyone interested in defending the Warren Commission conclusions at all cost could manipulate these tests to come to their desired conclusion. Of course, a conspiracy-lover could also rig the results. This is a tricky issue, and I wouldn't rely on the initial test settling the question. I would hope that one test would trigger others.

One of the Oswalds worked closely with Ruby. Hoover managed to bury the direct proof, but a trainload of hearsay evidence comes roaring through for anyone willing to look for it. If you’re interested, go to the following link, scroll down the page, and read around the picture below: THE BARE FACTS ABOUT JACK RUBY

John, There’s considerable evidence that Ruby ran guns to Cuba during several different time periods. This was surely known by the CIA, which, although it helped prosecute many others for doing the same thing, apparently protected Ruby from prosecution. At the same time, Ruby was closely associated with KLIF radio’s Gordon McLendon, childhood friend of the Agency's David Atlee Phillips. McLendon was co-founder with Phillips of the Association of Former Intelligence Officers (AFIO) . Ruby notoriously spend time at KLIF the night of the assassination and continued to correspond with McLendon from prison. I think Ruby was the direct contact between JFK’s assassin plotters (Phillips et al.) and the cover-up team.

Nearly half a century ago, Penn Jones pointed out that Brewer was probably a shill for Ruby’s friend Tommy Rowe, who also worked at Hardy’s Shoe Store. Rowe said that it was he, not Brewer, who claimed “Oswald” entered the theater. Rowe was so close to Ruby that he moved into his apartment after Ruby was put in jail. Yet another indication that Ruby was far more intimately connected with the events of 11/22/63 than we were led to believe. See the brief Penn Jones article here: MIDLOTHIAN MIRROR

Larry, In any ordinary case I might agree with you, but not in this one. You would have us just go over again and again the same lies, altered statements, fake documents, and falsified evidence we’ve been fed for all these years? Do you seriously say we should not listen to the last few surviving witnesses to events of that era? What a terrible idea!

Megathanks, Ron! I was always under the impression that Mather testified and that it was "Postponed in full," but I can't find the reference I seemed to remember. Mather clearly was all too nervous about his situation.... And he CLEARLY was granted immunity by the HSCA. Too bad the Select Committee didn't want to know the truth!!

Interesting work from Mark Tyler. Thanks! Having studied this case for more than two decades from the perspective of "Lee Harvey Oswald," I still could not identify the majority of the motorcade vehicles, participants and photographers depicted in Mark's work. Making a numerical key more available during the video presentation would be invaluable.

Just wanted to ask again if anyone has seen anything on Carl Mather's HSCA testimony, which apparently has been buried for decades.

Carl Mather refused to speak to the FBI. From HSCA volume 12, p. 39: “Mrs. Carl A. Mather was interviewed by FBI Agent Charles T. Brown on December 5, 1963, at the Mather home at 4303 Colgate Street in Garland, Tex. . . . No FBI report of an interview or contact with Carl Mather was located.” Mather refused to testify to the HSCA until he was granted immunity. As of some years ago (I haven’t checked recently) his testimony was still “postponed in full.” If someone has more recent information on Mather’s HSCA testimony, please let us know. I’d like to stress that we can never understand this case by relying solely on U.S. government documents. The record is now pretty clear that Johnson ordered Hoover and Warren to pin the whole thing on “Lee Harvey Oswald” acting alone. Mark Lane proved more than half a century ago that the FBI altered numerous eyewitness statements. Here’s a three-minute YouTube video demonstrating it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODXoISgU-0M The Warren Commission even altered sworn testimony by FBI agents. Here’s one example. This apparently happened so often a procedure was in place to change testimony even over the objections of WC attorneys.

Ron, Hutson was a Dallas cop. According to John A., “Hutson counted 7 theater patrons sitting in the south, center, and north sections of the lower level” of the theater. John Gibson was a theater patron who originally sat on the main floor back row of the south section, the last seat near the south wall. According to John, Gibson heard a policeman yell, "Lock the doors," and ran to help the officers.117

Larry, I've been sidelined for several days and am now trying to catch up. Is this the doc you're seeking?

Ron, For years I believed that the FBI altered the color of Mather’s car so as to deny the credibility of T.F. White’s sighting of “Oswald” in it. But John Armstrong did some recent digging on this and discovered that it was actually Wes Wise’s mistake reading his own notes that led to the car color confusion. See John’s write-up here: WES WISE This doesn’t change the fact that soon after the assassination T.F. White believed he saw a man who looked like “Oswald” in a car owned by none other than J.D. Tippit’s best friend, an employee of CIA-affiliated Collins Radio.

Let’s consider the title of this thread. This is probably a long shot, but . . . . Air Force vet Robert Vinson said he was on a nearly empty C-54 Cargo plane that left Andrews Air Force Base the afternoon of 11/22 when it was apparently diverted and landed on what he thought was a road under construction near the Trinity River south of Dallas. He said a Jeep with three men (a driver, a man who might be Cuban, and a fellow who “looked an awful lot like Oswald") drove up and the two passengers got on. Vinson claimed the plane took off and went to the Air Force Base in Roswell, New Mexico. He added that the entire base was on lockdown until later that evening. Here’s part 2 of a YouTube interview with Vinson: CLICK HERE

Ron, That must have occurred to the authorities as well, because it sure vanished. As John A. noted, the file entry above is the ONLY reference to the half bills (besides the “torn” bill note, which could be anything). Steve, Good question, and I can only speculate. My pick for a possible contact was the pregnant lady “Oswald” briefly sat next to and Burroughs said went to the restroom and then wasn’t seen again before the police arrived. Was it her job to walk out past Hardy’s Shoe Store and tell Brewer and/or Rowe that “Oswald” was inside the theater?

Absolutely! My only question about this is was the Balcony Oswald really arrested, or were some of the cops so ticked off by the whole thing they put those reports about the balcony arrest through out of anger or to provide a clue to future detectives, or both.

This may have been part of the set-up of Classic Oswald®. According to Wayne January, on 11/20/63 a guy who looked like “Oswald” approached American Aviation at Redbird Airport, about five miles south of downtown Dallas, and a man and woman accompanying him asked about renting a Cesna airplane on the afternoon of November 22, inquiring if it could fly as far as the Yucatan Peninsula (just 130 miles from Cuba). This was the same day as the infamous Ralph Leon Yates hitchhiking incident! And it was the same day a brown paper bag was mailed to “Lee Oswald” with a 601 West Nassau label pasted over it. That address didn’t exist, but since the envelope had insufficient postage, a postage due notice was sent to 2515 W. 5th, in Irvine (Ruth Paine’s address). The label therefore probably covered Ruth Paine’s address. Otherwise, how would the Post Office have known to send the postage due notice there? The brown paper bag was probably meant to be touched by “Oswald” so his fingerprints would appear all over it, which would nicely complement the brown paper bag Ralph Leon Yates saw. November 20, 1963 was a busy day setting up the patsy!

Roscoe White, I'm quite certain, had the Backyard Photos because he created them. He didn't have to steal anything from the Dallas police.

It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic. By 11/23/63 the FBI was absolutely certain the handwriting on the rifle paperwork was that of "Oswald," but they sure as heck didn't know the price he paid for it. Funny, since the price should have been on the paperwork.

John A. wrote this on our website: After his arrest, the police found two halves of two different dollar bills in his wallet (see below). This was a CIA method of clandestine contact (review CIA memorandum of 7/9/63 below). Wherever and whenever Oswald met his contact, this person would provide confirmation of his identity with the other half of these dollar bills. Curiously, neither of these items were listed on the police inventory of 11/23/63, the joint FBI/DPD inventory of 11/26/63 (Oswald's so-called possessions), nor were they photographed. At the National Archives, in Adelphi, MD, I inspected and handled each item of inventory listed on the joint FBI/DPD inventory of 11/26/63. These items were not among the inventory.

I’d be more inclined to consider these arguments if we were dealing with legitimate evidence here, but the whole backyard photo business stinks to high heaven. We start with a rifle that was allegedly purchased with an uncashed, unprocessed postal money order. As John A. wrote, “There is no in­nocent explanation for these photos, negatives, and a color transparency to have been in the hands of FBI agents, DPD officers, and the National Photo Laboratory on the evening of November 22, because the "backyard photos" were not "officially found" by the Dallas police until the next day (November 23) in Ruth Paine's garage.” The FBI told Curry almost immediately that it had “Oswald’s” handwriting on the order from of the rifle, but it took nearly a week for the FBI to announce how much Klein’s charged for a rifle and scope. The price originally given was for a rifle without a scope. Then there is the matter of the giant head in the BYP. “Oswald” apparently said it was his head pasted on someone else’s body. Many of us suspect that body belonged to Roscoe White. Geneva Dees, widow of Roscoe White, told the HSCA that her husband "was sent to the Oswald home in his capacity as a plainclothes detective for the photography division." She also said her husband was skilled in trick photography. White was in the photo department and started working for the DPD on October 7, 1963, just weeks before the assassination. Roscoe’s widow, 13 years after the fact, provided the HSCA with yet another “backyard photo,” (designated by the HSCA 133-C). And, of course, there’s that infamous “ghost” image. How much nonsense are we supposed to believe? I’ll believe my eyes rather than the endless excuses of government “investigators.” I don’t believe 133-A was retouched to remove part of the scope and put dark clothing behind where the scope once was. We’ll just have to agree to disagree, apparently. You may be right that we shouldn’t call this the “Life” photo, but, you know, they’re all supposed to be the same. I see little reason to expect these rifles should be the same.

After serving in the O.S.S. and prior to joining the CIA, according to Encyclopaedia Britannica, Allen W. Dulles in 1948 “was made chairman of a three-man committee charged with surveying the U.S. intelligence system.” Obviously, Dulles was a major player in U.S. Intelligence both during World War II and the years after it. John Armstrong traces evidence for the Harvey and Lee intelligence operation back to 1947 in Fort Worth and nearby Benbrook, TX. For details, click here. My bet is that Dulles either created the Harvey and Lee program or at least the circumstances that fostered its development. In one of his books, Dulles talked about the use of doubles in intelligence work.