Andrej Stancak

Jim: I have prepared an account of my work for Mr. Frazier for the CAPA conference last November, unfortunately, Mr. Frazier was unwell and could not come and answer the questions. I am more than happy to call Mr. Frazier if I am given the number. However, I have some reservations about doing it because I believe that the questions should be asked by a person who does not have that strong opinion about who Prayer Man was. What can happen is that the interviewer can manipulate the witness to say what s/he wants. For instance, if the interviewer asks Mr. Frazier what colour was Mrs. Stanton's hair and he answers that it was blond, a bad interviewer would then spend minutes to persuade Mr. Frazier that the lady could also have coloured her hair, and Mr. Frazier somehow says she could. Similarly, if Mr. Frazier says right away that Mrs. Stanton stood to his left, a bad interviewer who only pursuits his goals would spend minutes to confuse the witness with his gibberish after which Mr. Frazier says something that people changed their locations after the shooting and this will be taken as Mr. Frazier's view that Mrs. Stanton changed her location after the shooting to became Prayer Man (only that Prayer Man was at his spot already in Wiegman). Instead of just asking a non-leading question and watching Mr. Frazier's reactions (therefore a phone call is not the best form for such interview), a bad interviewer constantly rambles on about his own theories whatever the witness says. Mr. Frazier needs to be interviewed with visual evidence at hand, the session should be recorded and questions should be non-leading. There should be two-three researchers around whom Mr. Frazier trusts. This is what I hope will happen one day, and my non-recorded phone call can only disturb things. In all fairness, Mr. Frazier cannot say who Prayer Man was. He just cannot. If he could, he would say. If Prayer Man was not Oswald, it was possible to say who he was with impunity. However, this did not happen over the years. Mr. Frazier may also not remember the scene. Not only because it is 55 years back, but also because he went through a very difficult time, fearing for his family for things over which he did not have any control. So, if you would press on him by insisting on the answer who Prayer Man was, he would raise voice and become emotional. I have only respect for Mr. Frazier. He is a good man and a good American. I would like to talk to him when I know the interview would be both useful and not hurting as it may become if all details about Prayer Man acquired over the years are communicated to him.

To show the level reached by a person 5' 2 1/2'' on a figure of a man 6', I have prepared a realistic human model with standard male proportions in Poser 11.1. Then I scaled one of the figures to 6' and another to 5' 2 1/2'', and also added a 7 1/2 grid (this refers to the observations that the height of human head fills the body height 7.5 times). Please note how well the top of the short person's head aligns with the tall person's chin. This is exactly what we see in Darnell and what all other estimates predicted. The 5'4'' line would cross the mouth. This is too a high level of Prayer Man's head compared to what is evidenced in Darnell, and too bad for those few who believe that Prayer Man was Mrs. Stanton (who, by the way, was 5'6'').

Sandy: I understood from Sean's and Pat Speer's comments that the coloured picture CE151 was simply not available for researchers, and when it has been given to Pat Speer after a long struggle, it shows a substantial differences in the distribution of the dirty spots retalitive to CE151-WC, especially in the upper right chest below the clavicular bone. That spot could only be washed up, and this could be for innocent reasons (but who would clean up a piece of evidence?) or intentionally. Our own paranoid inclinations or conspiracy thinking would now decide what we believe was the reason. Given that CE151 is capable of proving Prayer Man's identity and that the Prayer man discussion was ongoing when Pat Speer was requesting CE151 from NARA, I would say that somebody had "seen" to CE151 before giving it to public.

Thanks, Sandy, this is a very useful table allowing to understand the location of Mr. Frazier's body height in the distribution of male population. It seems we are getting closer and closer to the bottom of things.

The importance of Lee Oswald's shirt for Prayer Man case is paramount. It was well understood by Sean Murphy back then in 2013. Actually, if anyone can prove that Oswald wore the dark CE150 in morning hours of Friday, November 22, the possibility of Oswald being Prayer Man could be put aside. It seems it is time to recall some of Sean's posts on Oswald's shirt: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sean's post at "Oswald leaving the TSBD?" dated October 13, 2013: Tommy, Prayer Man's shirt appears to be buttoned up fairly high. Fritz's transcription of Bookhout's interrogation notes indicates that Oswald told Fritz he changed shirts back at his rooming house--the shirt he was wearing when arrested was not the shirt he went to work in--that was a "reddish" shirt. A "maroon and grey cotton" shirt was found among Oswald's effects at N. Beckley Ave.: what I wouldn't give to see a photo of it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Also, Sean's post from October 23, and October 28: Everyone is familiar with CE150, Oswald's brown arrest shirt: Less well known is CE151, which is described in WC Volume XVI as a light-brown shirt: Here it is: It is given a strikingly detailed description in a January 64 FBI list of Oswald's personal effects taken from the Paine residence and from Oswald's N. Beckley rooming house-- It is not however included in a 27 November 63 Secret Service list of Oswald's clean clothes taken from Beckley: This is hardly surprising: if the photo of the shirt is anything to go by, it is not a freshly laundered shirt. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ And Sean's post from October 29, 2013: Further confirmation (thanks to David Josephs and Robert Charles-Dunne) that this button-down shirt-- was amongst the non-clean clothes found at Oswald's N. Beckley rooming house: (Note re. the last document above: it relates, as the previous page in the document makes clear, to Oswald's Beckley residence rather than the Paine house.) ** From Bookhout's 4th Interrogation Report: He stated that after arriving at his apartment, he changed his shirt and trousers because they were dirty. He described his dirty clothes as being a reddish colored long sleeved, shirt with a button-down collar and gray colored trousers. He indicated that he had placed these articles of clothing in the lower drawer of his dresser. From Thomas J. Kelley's 1st Interrogation Report: He said he went home, changed his trousers and shirt, put his shirt in a drawer. this was a red shirt, and he put it with his dirty clothes. He described the shirt as having a button down collar and of reddish color. The trousers were grey colored. ** CE151 is surely the "reddish" long-sleeved shirt with button-down collar that Oswald told Fritz he took off at his rooming house. Again, I submit that...

Would you be willing to take a picture of yourself with marks at 5' 2 1/2'' , 5'4'' and 6'' next to you? This would clear the problem of the height at which Prayer Man's aligns with Frazier's chin.

Bart, thank you for your correction. I was referring to Givens's testimony for the Warren Commission and did not quote my source properly: Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what he was wearing? Mr. GIVENS. Well, I believe it was kind of a greenish looking shirt and pants was about the same color as his shirt, practically the same thing he wore all the time he worked there. He never changed clothes the whole time he worked there, and he would wear a grey looking jacket.

Still pursuing the possibility to learn as much as possible about Prayer Man's shirt in Darnell. The composite picture below shows Prayer Man (after resizing) in the red scale. This is a simple operation when the red channel is boosted and the green and blue channels suppressed. Since the shirt, I suspect, was of reddish colour, maybe the shirt may reveal better contrasts when analysed in the red channel. I have increased the contrasts in the red-converted picture below. The top two pictures show Prayer Man in red. The shirt shows very dark spots at three regions: below the right forearm, around the left groin, and on the right chest, above Prayer Man's right forearm. In contrast, the brightest regions on Prayer Man's shirt are on the left and right lateral parts above the waist. In the bottom left, CE151 is shown as original and after converting to red and enhancing the contrast. You are the judges if I ask if you see any similarity in the distribution of the light and dark spots on CE151 and Prayer Man' shirt. I was amazed, however, not to find the same very dark spot on the right upper chest in CE151 which NARA sent to Pat Speer. The region on the shirt to the right of the two top buttons is dirty in CE151 retrieved from the Warren Commission exhibits but very clean in the picture of the shirt sent by NARA in 2016. The shirt in the original record appears to be badly battered (e.g., the right sleeve seems to be perforated). Of course, the shirt was folded differently in both pictures, yet the lack of dirt in the upper right chest in the 2016 version is troubling. From the two pictures, the original CE151 from the Warren Commission exhibits matches Prayer Man's shirt better than the 2016' one (two bottom right panels in the picture below). Are these photographs enough to say that Prayer Man wore CE151? This is difficult to say as an affirmative answer basically clinches the Prayer Man's identity problem with far-reaching consequences. I would say this finding gives me, and I hope that to someone else too, strong reasons to pursue the reddish shirt CE151 case further. Actually, I have embarked with a few friends on the project to revive Tom Wilson's image analysis method. Prayer Man's shirt would be an ideal specimen to analyse using Tom Wilson's method given the possibility that there are dark and light spots on that shirt and Tom' method was able to resolve subsurface anomalies in materials and photographs. What I would give to the Sixth Floor Museum for one single high-resolution still from Darnell film...

John: I will analyse your suggestion for a Prayer Man candidate carefully.

Chris: please have a look at the family photograph of Mrs. Stanton and her son Larry. Larry was 6' or 6'1'', similar to Mr. Frazier's and your body height. Can you see how high the top of Mrs. Stanton's head reaches relative to Larry's figure? Do you see that her head would align with his shoulder as it is evidenced in Frazier-Prayer Man in Darnell? I have a friendly request which I hope you would be able to respond to in order to resolve the issue. If you are 6' 1/2, would you please make three marks on some wall: 5'2 1/2'', 5'4'' and 6'. Then, can you please ask someone to make a photograph with yourself and the three marks next to your figure. It should be photographed with a camera at about your neck level. You can always blur the face on your photograph to avoid spreading your details over the internet.

Chris: a person measuring 72 inches (6') would have his/her head of 9' 6/10''. First, there are standard proportions between body parts in human being. Tall and short people will differ in the heights of their heads, however, the proportions between their body height and the height of their heads will always be the same. This rule is known as a 7 1/2 rule and it is used by artists to achieve normal proportions in their human figures: https://www.artistsnetwork.com/art-techniques/drawing-proportions-human-body-ameral/ . Applied to Buell Wesley Frazier: 72/7.5 = 9.6. However, I used in my work the head height estimate acquired from real human beings. These are published e.g., on wikipedia.org in the chapter "Human Head". Here are the values: Dimension 14 refers to head heights. There are 5 columns in the table above. The columns correspond to head heights (from short to large - left to right) in people divided into 5 quintiles based on their body heights. Thus, 9' 1/10' would correspond to a person of average body height. Buell Wesley Frazier was taller than average and that was the reason for selecting the two right-most values in my preliminary estimates. Anyway, we have three values to compare for Buell Wesley Frazier's head: The estimate according to the 7 1/2 rule: 9' 6/10''. My estimate from comparing the plane 5' 2 1/2'' and 6': 9' 6'' . The estimate that was given by wikipedia.org: 9' 7/10'' . They are all three very close and make a strong case for Buell Wesley Frazier's head to measure 9' 6''. While it looks trivial to measure own head, it is actually not that trivial because the chin and the top of the head are not parts of a perfect cube. These measurements are usually made using simple but standardised tools. Please do not believe people who already lost their case for good. If you wish to make a case for Mrs. Stanton being Prayer Man, you need to answer not only how her body height 5'4'' - 5' 6'' (the higher estimate is correct according to the comparison of her figure with the figure of her son Larry who was 6' -6'1'') but also the question where is her thick grey hair in Prayer Man's figure. Where is it? I will go through the rest of your points carefully although I may not understand some very technical aspects in your post.

I then evaluated how much would the shadows change the original grey colour of Prayer Man's shirt. To this end, I measured in 12 good frames of Darnell film the level of grey on Prayer Man's shirt on the right facing below the shadow cast by Prayer Man's forearm and avoiding, if possible, the dark spot which we know existed on shirt CE151. The picture below shows the spot of interest and an additional 4 pairs of rectangles. The rectangles are on a surface which was clearly divided into a dark part due to shadow and a light part. I then applied Gaussian filter to these rectangles and measured the level of grey in each dark and light rectangle in all four pairs. The resulting matrix was 12 stills x 4 locations x 2 pairs, and of course 12 measurements of Prayer Man's shirt. The mean grey level of Prayer Man's shirt was 83 (standard error of the mean = 1.3). The histogram below shows the distributions of the differences in 48 pairs (12 pictures, 4 locations). The differences were normally distributed, and the mean difference in grey levels due to shadow was 71.4 (standard error of the mean 2.4). I then added 83 (Prayer Man's shirt) and 71 (rounded difference in grey levels caused by shadow) and ended up with a value of 154. To recall, the grey level of CE151 was also 154. The figure below shows the matrix of 215 colours and their greyscale representations as in my previous post and the colours which matched the calculated grey level of Prayer Man's shirt after correcting for the shadow under four different levels of errors. Of course, if the error would be assumed to be zero, we have the two-colour situation as in CE151. If a larger and larger error is admitted (and it should be because the difference due to the shadow is only a statistical estimate), we get further colours as possible candidates for the colour of Prayer Man's shirt, especially some green colours and two khaki colours. It is interesting that Charles Givens reported the colour of Oswald's shirt on Friday morning (and on other days) as green. Clearly, the shirt colour had spectral properties allowing to confuse its reddish colour for green. This anomaly in red-green vision is not that rare in males (deuteranopia). While this analysis cannot unequivocally claim that a reddish colour was the only colour which the shadow-corrected grey of Prayer Man's shirt would yield, it is important that the reddish colour was on board. There was a limited number of colours which could give the level of grey of Prayer Man's shirt. It is now possible to calculate the probability with which Prayer Man's shirt would match the colour of CE151.

I would like to come back to the CE151, light-red shirt which Lee Oswald wore during the morning hours of that fateful Friday and which he changed, together with his pants, after arriving at his rooming house at about 1PM. We have a black-and-white photograph of CE 151 (and also a coloured version of this shirt arranged by Pat Speer) which seems to be photographed with a flash. I took a clean spot on that shirt and applied Gaussian filter to average the grey levels, and the resulting mean level of grey in the red rectangle was 154. I then took a list of 215 colours from https://www.december.com/html/spec/color1.html with their decimal RGB codes and constructed a matrix of all 215 colours and their greyscale representation. The picture below shows in the left-hand panel all 215 colors and in the middle panel the grey representations of all colours. I then looked through the 215 grey values and identified the colours which would match grey=154 after being converted into greyscale. The right-hand panel shows the result: one grey rectangle (this should be of no surprise) and one reddish colour. It looks maybe trivial, however, it is sort of encouraging that not too many colours would match the grey tone of CE151.

Chris: thanks for your comments. I will come back to you when (and if) I am able to understand all your points. It seems you have your own estimate of Prayer Man's body height, and I am more than happy to compare our estimates. and methods.

Right, coming back to the location of Mrs. Stanton on the top landing, I looked at the late frame of Darnell film which shows a short lady standing in the eastern part of the top landing and close to the glass door, Mrs. Sanders. I have analysed this frame intensely in my blog article on https://thejfktruthmtters.wordpress.com , dated January 31, 2018. The picture below shows the original frame and the section in the middle of the doorway which was subject to the present analysis. The only operation made was resizing the cropped region to 200 dpi. Here is the 3D surface plot of the region of interest prepared using ImageJ program. Similar ton one of my previous post in this thread, the white contour at the surface is the figure of Otis Williams , leaning toward his right and shielding his eyes with his left arm. The yellow-orange portion of the image is Bill Shelley. The blue-purple part of the image corresponds to the person standing behind Bill Shelley, Mrs. Stanton. Please note that Bill Shelley had his left arm bent with his forearm at about 90-degree angle relative to his upper arm. Finally, an overlay of the original flat picture and the coloured relief seen in the left-hand panel in the picture above. The value of this frame is that is shows all three critical persons, Prayer Man, Mrs. Stanton and Mrs. Sanders each standing at a different location in one single frame. Therefore, there cannot be a mistake that Prayer Man could not be either Mrs. Stanton or Mrs. Sanders.

Sandy: I do not pretend that I know the answer for the discrepancies in Shelley's (and Lovelady's) testimonies and you raised valid points regarding Shelley's movements. At present, I conjecture that Shelley remained at his post for the duration of Darnell film and at some point later he walked out of the doorway in direction to the railroad tracks together with Billy Lovelady. Their walk to the Tripple underpass is unclear as the timing is concerned, however, I would be able to accept that they returned back into the building about 3 minutes after the last shot. In Shelley's case, we have his Warren Commission testimony and Darnell stills which both say that he was still there at his central spot some 30 seconds after the last shot. I agree with your previous analysis that Lovelady stepped down to the sixth step (counted from top) and he is seen as the man facing the lady in dark. Here is what Shelley told the Warren Commission: Mr. SHELLEY - Sounded like a miniature cannon or baby giant firecracker, wasn't real loud.Mr. BALL - What happened; what did you do then? Mr. SHELLEY - I didn't do anything for a minute.Mr. BALL - What seemed to be the direction or source of the sound:? Mr. SHELLEY - Sounded like it came from the west. Mr. BALL - It sounded like it came from the west? Mr. SHELLEY - Yes. Billy Lovelady told the Warren Commission when shown Altgens6 that he stood on the top landing, however, he was wrong. His location at that time was on the second step. This is how witnesses contributed with their inaccurate testimonies contributed to the mess which makes the case so hard to crack.

To follow up with Prayer Man's body height analysis. I lifted the lowest (5'2'') yellow plane by half an inch so that it now aligns with the top of Prayer Man's head. The horizontal yellow line is at 5'2'' 1/2 and the line touches the lower aspect of Buell Wesley Frazier's chin, exactly as we see it in Darnell. I do not know how to make things better and more transparent than this, so I leave the plane issue by saying that the top point of Prayer Man's head was 5'2'' 1/2 above the plane of the top landing. Of course, Prayer Man could not be so short. However, he stood one step below, on the second step, and therefore, it is necessary to add the height of one riser which was 7 1/8'' according to Bart Kamp's measurements. Thus, Prayer Man net height was 5'2'' 1/2 + 7 1/8'' = 5' 9'' 5/8. This body height breaks down into 5'9'' which represents the body height of Lee Oswald without shoes and 5/8'' (1.6 cm) which accounts for the height of a shoe heel. I checked the height of heel in all my shoes and it varied between 1.5 cm and 2.5 cm. If someone has a trip to the NARA in the near future, can you please take measurements of Lee Oswald's shoes.

While it is possible to estimate approximate body heights of people standing close to Mr. Frazier using his known body height and known dimensions of certain facial features, there is an alternative and a more accurate method. It consists in creating an accurate 3D model of the doorway, orienting the doorway to match Darnell's camera view, and reading the body heights from the model. The figure below shows the inner doorway with five measuring sticks placed on the western wall (2), on the side frames of the glass door (2) and at the front edge of the top landing (1). The height of the doorway is known: it was measured by Bart Kamp in autumn 2017 and Bart was kind enough to share his measurements with me. At that time I was almost abandoning the doorway project being frustrated by seeing inaccuracies in the alignment of my model and Darnell' still which could not be resolved without using hard data. The doorway height is 288 cm or 9'5'' 4/10. Besides the five measuring sticks, there are also three horizontal planes in the doorway: the blue plane is at the height of 6' which is the known body height of Buell Wesley Frazier. The yellow plane is at 5'2'', the height at which Prayer Man's head appeared above the top landing according to the provisional analysis explained in my last post. The red plane is at 5'4'' which is the lower limit of the range of body heights given by members of Mrs. Stanton's family. Please check in the figure below the accuracy of how the three planes would cross the measuring sticks. I have delineated Prayer Man's head in Darnell still with a yellow line and copied the 3D model with the three planes and the measuring sticks on board onto Darnell still. The yellow line touches the bottom of the three planes. Here the same in detail: A better method to check which of the planes was touched or crossed by Prayer Man's head is to overlay also Prayer Man's mannequin. The figure below shows the three planes and Prayer Man's and Mr. Frazier's figures at the blending rate of 80% (more of Darnell background seen at this blending ratio). Please note that both Prayer Man's and Mr. Frazier's mannequins match their originals accurately. And the same with a 65%-percent blending ratio: The next figure confirms that Mr. Frazier, as depicted in Darnell, was indeed 6' tall. Please note that the red 5'4'' plane would cross Mr. Frazier's mouth and the yellow 5'2'' plane would cross the neck just below his chin. Finally, the detail of Prayer Man's head. Prayer Man's head crosses the yellow 5'2'' plane with an excess of 1.2 cm (a bit less than 1/2 inch), however, it is far from the red 5'4'' plane. This analysis excludes Mrs. Stanton as Prayer Man as her body height of 5'6'' (or more) was far above what it should be (5'2'' 1/2). It is not only the lack of thick grey hair in Prayer Man's head but also her large body which discards Mrs. Stanton as a Prayer Man candidate. In contrast, Prayer Man's body height of 5'9'' 1/2 fully conforms with the possibility of Lee Oswald, 5'9'' according to his autopsy report (https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337932/m1/1/) , being Prayer Man. The extra less than half an inch was certainly related to the differences between autopsy-reported body height which was determined on a naked body and the body height captured in a dressed person wearing shoes. This was also the likely reason for seeing Mrs. Stanton's hair about at the height of 5'7'' which exceeds by about 1 inch the upper limit of her body height 5'6'' reported by her family. Question: would you agree that it is possible to estimate with a high level of certainty Prayer Man's body height?

I will post the updated 3D model-based height estimates after fixing some of the figures which I think deserve more care. In the meantime, it is possible to learn about the body heights of different people using Mr. Frazier's body as a measuring stick. Mr. Frazier was 6'0'' or just tiny bit taller (6'1''). As the people of interest (Mr. Shelley, Mrs. Stanton) stood on the same platform as Mr. Frazier and the depth differences were small, the horizontal lines led through the top of heads of Mr. Shelley and Mrs. Stanton inform about their approximate body height. In the figure below, the horizontal top blue line crosses the top of Mr. Frazier's head and therefore, this provides 6'0 - 6'1'' level relative to the surface of the top landing. The bottom blue line crosses the lower aspect of Mr. Frazier's chin. The dimension (14) in the look-up table below shows that a tall person falling into the top quartile of the male population would have a head sized 10'' or just a tiny bit less. I count 10'' for the sake of simplicity as this is only an approximate method to learn about the body heights of different people in the doorway. This line, incidentally, crosses the top of Prayer Man's head, so his body height could only be 5'2'' if Frazier was 6' or 5'3'' if Frazier was 6'1''. The top of the grey blob sitting on top of Mr. Shelley's head corresponds to the blue line crossing Mr. Frazier's root of the nose or eyes. The dimension (9) equaling 5'' corresponds to the distance between this blue line and the top of Mr. Frazier's head. 6' - 5'' is 5'7'' and 6'1'' - 5'' is 5'8''. Thus, Mrs. Stanton's body height was 5'7'' (Frazier = 6') or 5'8'' (Frazier = 6'1''). Finally, the line crossing the top of Mr. Shelley's head appears to align with Mr. Frazier subnasale point. To measure the height of this line, we need to subtract the dimensions (14-16) from 6' or 6'1''. This would give 6'- 6' 1/2 = 5'5'' 1/2 (Frazier = 6.0') or 6'1- 6'' 1/2 = 5' 6'' 1/2 (Frazier = 6.1). The look-up table with facial landmarks and dimensions were reproduced from "Human Head" chapter at wikipedia.org.

Paul: you raised important questions. Mr. Frazier referred to "Sarah" on a few occasions, so he indeed knew her quite well. However, this clear confirmation of Mrs. Stanton's location to his left is only in this interview. The body height of Mr. Frazier has never been confirmed unequivocally. However, Robert Prudhomme, the researcher who started this very thread, was able to retrieve information from a newsman who knew Mr. Shelley. There is even a thread on this Forum on Mr. Shelley's body height: Bob Prudhomme contacted Mr. Shelley's son to learn about his father's body height, however, he received no reply. Instead, Mr. Prudhomme received a letter from a journalist who knew Bill Shelley. This letter was posted by Mr. Prudhomme on Deep Politics Forum on February 24, 2017. This is the copy-paste of the letter: "Dear Mr. Prudhomme:Your question about Bill Shelley's height is difficult to answer. At the time I met Shelley in the early 1970's, he was perhaps 5-5 or 5-6. However, he told an employee (TSBD employee?) he was once two inches taller. According to the employee, Shelley claimed he broke his back in a car accident sometime after the JFK assassination. Subsequent surgery supposedly left him two inches shorter. Shelley never mentioned the car accident in my presence, but the employee was a reliable source and Shelley's claim would have been plausible. Moreover, I recall Shelley was slightly misshaped as if he had indeed lost a couple of inches of height above the hips.For the sake of clarity, I met Shelley while he was working at the Scott Foresman school book warehouse in Northwest Dallas. This was the new home of the old Texas School Book Depository. As for Shelley, after reading his Warren Commission testimony years later I realized I had learned little new information about him. Perhaps my biggest takeaway from the experience was a strong suspicion the Texas School Book Depository was a storefront for domestic intelligence. After the assassination, the storefront may have been moved to the new Scott Foresman warehouse in Northwest Dallas.Hope this information sheds a little light for you. Very best of luck.Sincerely,**** *****Austin, Texas" My estimate of Bill Shelley's body height is 5'5'' or a tiny bit shorter. The body height of 5'5'' would be consistent with the information contained in the letter above. I will post some more data on Shelley's body height shortly.

As pointed out by several astute researchers before me, Mr. Buell Wesley Frazier commented on the location of a lady who worked in a Depository office in his interview for the Sixth Floor Museum on June 21, 2002. When asked by the interviewer, Mr. Gary Mack, if the lady stood to his left or right, Mr. Frazier replied at an instant that the lady stood to his left. His verbal response was accompanied by turning briefly his gaze leftward and pointing with his left hand toward his left. The frames below were selected from stills starting 53'33'. To Mr. Frazier's left means in the direction of where Mr. Shelley stood.

Michael: Sarah Stanton was tall, around 5'6'' according to information provided by surviving members of her family. She was also obese (300+ pounds) and had a specific grey hair. The family photograph in my last post, obtained from Mrs. Stanton's family by Mr. Doyle last June, shows her with her son Larry. Larry himself was very tall, at least 6' or 6'1'' which is practically the same height as Buell Wesley Frazier's body height. In that family photograph, the top of Mrs. Stanton's head reaches to about half of Larry's notes. Simple math based on known relationships among face features tells us that Mrs. Stanton was indeed at least 5'6'' as her family members also pointed out. In the figure below, the rectangle in (A) defines the critical area of Darnell doorway. In B, the grey blob is highlighted with yellow line and Mr. Shelley's face and hair with blue lines. In (D), if you draw a horizontal line connecting the top of the grey blob and Mr. Frazier's face, you may see that the grey spot which I believe was Mrs. Stanton's hair was about the root of Mr. Frazier's nose. It is a bit uncertain where exactly the line should be drawn given the blurriness of both the grey blob and Mr. Frazier's face, yet it is clear that the grey blob is where it would be expected if it belonged Mrs. Stanton. For instance, the line certainly did not cross Mr. Frazier's chin or mouth which would exclude this grey blob as Mrs. Stanton's hair. The 3D contour plots in my last post illustrate the presence of two people in the spot covered by the orange rectangle in (A) much better than the figure below. Humans understand that there is a gradient in blobs of certain grey level, however, we cannot reconstruct in our minds the spatial information which the grading of grey contains.

You may wonder why I continue posting if no one joints the debate. There are a few points I would like to share with the Forum, so please bear with me before completing my posting in this thread. Prayer Man's identity is the most important problem of all in the JFK assassination case – there is no clearer and more absolute refutation of the official version of events than Lee Oswald standing in the doorway for a brief period of time just after the last shot. If he was in the doorway during the time of Wiegman and Darnell films, he could not be the President's assassin. If Lee Oswald were Prayer Man, all that happened to him, the whole investigation, the conclusion of two governmental commissions, and the whole 55 years of reporting about JFK assassination by the mainstream media would be questioned without any chance of a comeback. I wish that anyone who in future stumbles on Prayer Man can find data which cannot be found in archives or be copied from books or various forums. There is no height tag on Prayer Man’s forehead which would say how tall this person was. Yet, the doorway is a physical object with known dimensions and therefore, it is possible to determine Prayer Man’s body height very accurately by reconstructing the doorway (in a 3D model) and reading the height to which the top of Prayer Man reaches. There are more delicate problems, such as what was Prayer Man’s posture and where exactly did he stand, what clothes did he wear, when did he enter the doorway and when did he leave it. Whoever is seriously interested in the identity of Prayer Man would need to address at least some of these questions. Today I would like to look at the whereabouts of Mrs. Stanton in Darnell film. If we say that Prayer Man was most likely Lee Oswald then we also need to offer a plausible explanation of where the other Prayer Man candidate stood. That other candidate is Mrs. Sarah Stanton. To recall: Mr. Frazier stood close to the glass door in the western part of the doorway in Altgens6 and this is the reason for not seeing him in this picture. However, his faint figure is visible in Wiegman after giving it some work, and possibly in Hughes, and therefore it can be taken for granted that he indeed stood on the top landing during and after the shooting. Of course, he is in plain sight in Darnell. Mr. Shelley is the man in a dark suit, wearing a white shirt and a dark tie in Altgens. He stood at a premium post in the centre of the top landing, and he is seen at this spot also in Wiegman. This man remained at his spot also in Darnell. Mr. Shelley confirmed in his Warren Commission testimony that for about a minute after the last shot he did not do anything, he remained at the place where he was during the shooting. Mrs. Sanders stood in the eastern part of the doorway and close to the glass door. She can be seen in only one frame of Darnell, fortunately, her body height and unique shape of her hair prove that it was her. And then there was also Mrs. Stanton who stood on the top landing. Mrs. Stanton was a huge lady weighing 300 pounds and measuring 5’6’’, not a minor at all. She also had a thick grey hair which would require us to see a grey strip about at the height of 5’6’’ somewhere in the doorway. As no one has identified Mrs. Stanton in the doorway for more than 55 years, maybe that was the reason to consider Mrs. Stanton to be Prayer Man. While it is easy to refute Mrs. Stanton as Prayer Man (where is the grey strip of her hair on Prayer Man’s head, please?), it also poses a challenge for those who consider Lee Oswald as being Prayer Man to find her. Until there is a human figure in the doorway matching the height of about 5’6’’ and displaying a grey strip at that height, there always be a nagging uncertainty of Sarah Stanton perhaps being Prayer Man. So, let us find her. Actually, I did some work on Sarah Stanton in my blog http://thejfktruthmatters.wordpress.com (January 31, 2018), and found a faint shape of a person standing behind Mr. Shelley’s right shoulder. The figure below shows the critical area of Darnell's doorway where I believe Mrs. Stanton can be found. Well, where else? She is not seen anywhere in the eastern part of the doorway, she is not hidden behind Mr. Frazier, and she is not Prayer Man ("where is the grey strip? question, plus she with her 5'6'' would be too tall to be Prayer Man as the top of his head reaches only to 5'2'' above the top landing). I hope to convince you that there were three people standing in front of each other and that the person in the back was Mrs. Stanton. First, the continuity of some people's locations in the doorway. I reason that if some people were consistently seen at specific locations in Altgens6 and Wiegman and Darnell , had the same clothes and showed the same or similar gestures, they most likely were the same persons who were captured by three different photographers. The next figure shows the mapping of doorway occupants in Altgens6, Wiegman, and Darnell. The yellow line connects Mr. Shelley's figures, the green line connects Mr. Molina and the purple line is for Mr. Williams. So, the yellow rectangle of interest in Darnell contains Mr. Williams in the first line, Mr. Shelley behind him, and another person which stands behind Mr. Shelley from whom we only see a grey strip. To recall, Mrs. Stanton was a huge lady (5'6'') with thick grey hair. Mr. Shelley had a dark hair, and his dark hair is seen as a comparatively thin dark band above the bright ellipse of his head. He could not have his dark hair and another strip of grey hair on top. The figure below is a reconstruction of the three figures using the 3D surface plot in ImageJ program. The program resolves the gradient within the blobs of seemingly equal shades of grey which our eyes are not capable to arrange as depth gradients. Yet, objects in the doorways were spatially arranged and did not receive the same amount of light. Typically, objects in the back of the doorway would be in the shadow while those at the level of e.g., second step would be fully illuminated by sunlight. In the figure below, the part of Darnell in the yellow rectangle clearly disentangles three people. The person painted in white is the one shielding his eyes with his left arm. It would be Mr. Williams. His head is not seen because it was wrapped up by the white arm (long sleeve). Below Mr. Williams is the figure in yellow-red with a white spot on his left chest - this would be Mr. Shelley. Please note that there is a hole painted with dark red at the place where are Mr. Shelley's dark hair: anything dark will sink, and anything bright will be extruded in this type of analysis. And here comes the third person, painted in blue and purple. The purple spot represents the front part of this person's hair. This person is taller than Mr. Shelley and stood behind Mr. Shelley. The next figure is the front view of the region of interest in Darnell still. The separation between the top of Mr. Shelley's head and the brighter blob (the grey strip in Darnell) is clearly visible and proves the presence of another person behind Mr. Shelley. It is possible that the person in the background was looking toward the triple underpass through the space above Mr. Shelley's right shoulder. Question: do you agree that there was a person with grey hair, taller than Mr. Shelley and standing behind him? If my analysis convinced you and you can answer affirmatively that there was a person in the back of the doorway from whom we see her grey hair in Darnell, it is maybe easy to answer the follow-up question, namely who was this person. Well, it could only be Mrs. Stanton because there is no other candidate remaining. The doorway scene changed little over about 30 seconds (actually less than 30 seconds) elapsing between Wiegman and Darnell films. Mrs. Stanton, in my opinion, can be evidenced in Altgens6 in the space behind Mr. Lovelady (who stood on the second step) and Mr. Shelley. She was leaning through that space and a part of her face and hair emerged in the space between Mr. Lovelady and Mr. Shelley. The space on the top landing behind Mr. Lovelady was later taken by Buell Wesley Frazier and this was only possible because Mrs. Stanton slid back behind Mr. Shelley. Here is the bright oval shape next to Lovelady's left cheek which for some reason remained unnoticed for some 55 years:

In the coloured relief of Prayer Man showed in my last post, his shirt shows distinct spots which are deeper (darker) than the neighboring areas. Any aspect of this man's shirt which is dark will be as if pressed into the shirt and any aspects which is light, e.g. a button, will be pulled out. If this man in the doorway was Lee Oswald, he would wear a reddish shirt CE151. CE151 was Lee's work shirt. He had it on himself while working in the Depository on Thursday, November 21, and since he traveled with Buell Wesley Frazier to Irving without stopping at his rooming house to change his shirt, he also wore that same reddish shirt on Friday morning, November 22. So, Lee had a shirt on him in which he was lifting book boxes, placed them on a trolley, and moved the trolleys for packing to the first floor. As he has been lifting dusty boxes with black print on them very often, the book boxes have left dirty spots on his shirt. The dirty spots on CE151 were not distributed randomly, rather they were distributed diagonally along an approximate axis running from the left hip to the right chest. Here is how a dusty box would leave a diagonally distributed spots on a shirt. The next figure shows the reddish shirt CE151 which was obtained from the NARA by Pat Speer in 2016 (top left). The picture is of very good quality and it is, therefore, possible to inspect the distribution of dirty spots on the front facing of the shirt. The right-hand top panel shows the enhanced shirt with the dark spots clearly visible. The dirty spots were arranged in a diagonal fashion as expected if the shirt was worn by Lee Oswald, the order filler in a book warehouse. The bottom left panel shows the result of the 3D contour analysis with the shirt CE151. The dark spots are clearly visible and can be compared with the shirt worn by Lee Oswald. The dark spots on Prayer Man's shirt are shown in the bottom right panel. The greenish lines delineate concave (inward) regions on the shirt and the two light circles identify local convexities (outward). A diagonal arrangement of the dark spots on Prayer Man's shirt is present and bears similarity arrangement of dark spots on CE151. CE151 in the NARA photograph is spread differently compared to when it is worn and the flat shirt cannot be exactly matched to the orientation of Prayer Man's torso. I would be grateful for any opinion on whether the dark spots seen in Prayer Man's shirt would be similar to the spots seen in CE151. If there was a diagonal arrangement of dark spots on Prayer Man's shirt, it provides an unusually strong circumstantial evidence in favor of Lee being Prayer Man. How on earth could a random person's shirt show dark spots where CE151 shows them just by chance? To check the inwardly and outwardly orientated patches on Prayer Man's shirt, please see the larger plot in my previous post.

This one is for Robert because he was genuinely interested. It shows the relief based on 3D contours - things that are bright are pulled out and those which are dark are deep in the picture. The relief has been colourised using a spectrum heat map for a better view of what was forward and/or bright. The part which could be the left knee is on the bright side - I assume that this was because Prayer Man had his left leg ben in the knee joint. As a bonus, it is possible to identify the contours of Prayer Man's torso which was difficult to do just by viewing the original picture because the boundaries between the body contours and the background are smeared. Prayer Man certainly was not obese - he was actually a lean person given that he was 5'9''. I wonder why then some researchers see Prayer Man as an obese person having thick grey hair. The hair in the picture below would be extruded substantially if this person had light grey hair.