Joe Bauer

Paul, I too would like to know where to find info on that Prescott Bush/ A Dulles dinner.

Regards Aubrey Rike, I always thought of him as kind of the Dennis David of Dallas.

Unbelievably troubling.

How much farther to the right can we go?

This thread inspired me to revisit some past Vince Palamara/SS related You Tube videos.

One was an interview by CNN's Brian Lamb of Clint Hill and Gerald Blaine about their Palamara countering book.

Vince Palamara's 22 page letter to Hill was a major talking point and Lamb asked whether this letter had anything to do with Hill and Blaine's book co-written  ( come on - she wrote the book ) by Lisa McCubbin.

Hill said it didn't and he didn't even remember much of the Palamara letter and had just tossed it out.

But listening carefully to the statements of Hill and Blaine in the entire interview, it was obvious that Palamara's letter and other public comments were probably the main reason for their SS defending view book.

But what struck me was the incredible lameness of both Hill's and Blaine's answers and explanations when asked by Brian Lamb to respond to the JFK protection speculations in Palamara's work.

One in particular was the Hill explanation as to the true reason the agents were called back off JFK's limo as it was leaving Love Field.

And the meaning of the 3 times arm extending exasperation shown by the agent called off.

Hill gave some vague and innocuous reason for the call off and even added that his fellow agent mock tauntingly yelled back at his boss something like ...Okay, I'm going to lunch then.??? Please.  

Blaine ( who wasn't even in Dallas at the time) was equally preposterous. In one part of the interview he kept commenting on the super human effort and achievement of Hill running down the limo which Blaine kept saying never slowed down from it's 11 mph speed.

And a film clip is shown as Hill climbs the back of the limo which does show it going this fast. What you don't see is the previous scene where the Limo driver Greer does a 180 degree head turn to look back at JFK just before and through the time when JFK's head explodes, and Greer in the least lifts off the speed pedal  ( if not actually hitting his back lighted brakes ) to do so.

Hill was running to the limo starting "before" that almost stopping slowdown.

Just mentioning this type of Palamara countering media effort to remind us of what we could expect if Vince ever finds something new and relevatory in his area of research.

If this later re-posted thread inspires and yields even more research information regards the "fit" episode including something on a "blockbuster" level it will make it even more remarkable. 

Just a brief question that I know has been asked many times but still leaves me wondering:

Wouldn't an almost intact bullet having traversed through and damaged so much internal human body tissue have at least some blood on it's surface after it worked itself out?

Enough that the first person finding and handling it would probably have at least a little blood on their fingers from doing so?

I mean if I were that person I am certain I would have eventually noticed this and it would be a most indelible realization that I had JFK's actual blood on my fingers.

But, if there was no visually perceptible blood on that bullet when first sighted and handled ( and by physical laws there should be ) one is forced to at least ponder how this was so?

The forum has considerately provided us Trump worried members with a side political thread link.

Could someone post that again here?

With that said, I can understand someone feeling the level of concern about this subject that the original poster expressed regards this new regime.

I feel it too.  

This initial thread from 2007 and 2008 amazes me in how much responding members kept adding great research information as it went along.

The first poster who originally mentioned the incident and the next few asked the basic questions of the ambulance call and the actual fainting spell person and subsequently other forum members began adding a series of great background information that totally enlightened everyone regarding the whole incident including the identity and even photos of Jerry Belknap, his early years biography and his time of death. Also the identity of the ambulance and it's pick up and Parkland hospital delivery time frame.

I personally went from knowing just of the incident happening to feeling quite informed as if I had just taken an interesting college class on this specific JFK assassination subject...all from one thread!

What a great example of not just the multitude of research brains and talent on this forum but also their hard work and willingness to share in such a warm esprit de corps spirit of generosity.

Well, here we have documentation verifying agent Williams presence in Parkland during the time frame the reported death bed confession referenced.

Wonder if Vince Palamara could track down William's nephew ( or any other relatives ) and get more direct closer hand info?

Very interesting.

This info is third hand, but I always hoped that someone from that time period would give a death-bed confession that had some credible and valid confirmation documentation.

Michael W.

I'll try to find that link.

It may be from another thread.

I am going to go to Michael Paine's WC testimony to see if I can see where the questions to him reference different and contradictory dates of the call.

2 hours ago, Michael Walton said:

DAVID LIFTON - I really do believe that Ruth Paine owes history a more detailed explanation as to what the FBI reported.  A woman as intelligent as she is--remember, she has an IQ of 145 (which was ascertained by another researcher, based on a document)--surely can provide a more detailed explanation than the superficial one that you report.  Further, I believe that if you have an ongoing relationship with her, its worth pressing her further on this particular matter.

A good reply here.  And also just circling back not so much who ordered the wiretap but why was it there in the first place.  

I agree.

The Paine tapped telephone quote "we both know who is responsible" is right up there with Oswald's " I am just a patsy" one in their shared importance of possible intriguing implications.

And also yes, as B.A. Copeland points out:

The placing of the Paine tapped phone call on a date different than it's correct one by their questioner did give the Paines an out in claiming the call and their alleged comments on it didn't happen. It didn't happen on the date stated to them

 

Thank you for responding. Yes, this is a tribute thread and I should have asked my questions in another one.

Dennis David was obviously a very good and honorable person.

His passing is a true loss and he left us all with something very worthy

David Lifton hello.

Didn't I see Dennis David in the documentary "The Men Who Killed Kennedy?"

I just checked the link to DD's postings here on the forum back in 2007 I believe, where he answers questions from a few members.

In one of his posts answering a question asking him if he felt William Bruce Pitzer killed himself or was murdered, he states that he is undecided regards Pitzer being murdered versus committing suicide.

However, in the TMWKK interview David appears to express skepticism about the Pitzer suicide finding by stating a contradiction that he knew William Bruce Pitzer to be left handed where as the Pitzer death finding shows he died from a head wound to the right temple.

Do you recall ever talking to Dennis David about William Bruce Pitzer and his feelings about Pitzer's death?

Did he say things about this that you haven't shared in your books or on this forum?

I wonder if Dennis David did have some fear about discussing his true feelings about William Bruce Pitzer's death.

More so than just the subject of JFK arriving in a different casket than the one accompanied by Jackie Kennedy and RFK.

I must assume that because so many believe Dennis David was a truly honest and honorable person, that his comments about some doubt regarding Pitzer's death being a suicide were his true and honest feelings also.

Do you David Lifton believe William Bruce Pitzer committed suicide?

I would just like to see more or any debunking material on Anna Lewis and her interview statements besides John McAdams.

If Anna Lewis falsely made up her story with her claims of seeing Oswald and JVB together in the way she describes and this can be verified with more non-biased weight than John McAdams, then it would be another logical and embarrassingly exposing reason to dismiss Baker's story.

Was anyone of research note able to corner Anna Lewis after her interview and quiz her on her claims in that interview?

Did Anna Lewis ever comment again on her interview story afterwards and in so doing either stick to her interview claims, or disclaim them?

McAdams constantly and mostly conjurs up subjective points and views of contradictions in conspiracy witness's claims that he then presents as evidence of their lying or exaggerating. He does this so much and so selectively that you just scoff at his takes with as much disdain as others do with JVB's tales.

McAdams also mentions Guy Banister's long time secretary Delphine Roberts and her testimony ( JVB claims the same ) that Oswald did indeed have a small office in the building housing her boss's doings.  That she saw Oswald there and even talking to Banister.

In McAdam's typical style he once again simply dismisses Roberts and her Oswald claim as just another lie, motivated by some bad or emotionally unbalanced character reason such as desperately seeking attention or some delusion that maybe she could possibly make some easy bucks off of her years later explosive claims.

McAdams just lumps anyone and everyone who says anything about Oswald in NO that suggests something more than the Warren Commission take into his ridiculously weak they're-all-liars folder. 

McAdams in the mix of JVB debunkers makes me pause in dismissing JVB's tale entirely.

I just want to know with more credibility than not that Anna Lewis's interview claims about personally witnessing Oswald and Baker together were either paid off lies, or perhaps true. 

Do you think that Judyth Baker paid Anna Lewis to make the statements she did in her interview video?

I am trying to imagine all the possible motivation scenarios regards Anna Lewis and her recollections concerning actually seeing Judyth Baker and Oswald together several times ( as boyfriend and girlfriend ) and even sitting ( her and her husband ) with Oswald and Baker in a coffee shop together.

Is Anna Lewis making all this up?  And if so...why?  

She acknowledges Oswald's and Baker's close personal friendship, but also clearly says in her interview that she personally disliked Judyth Baker and described her as "stuck up" and other unpleasant character traits that seem to echo what so many in the JFK community say about her.

That is an odd contradiction, but maybe not. Perhaps Anna Lewis was coached to say something derogatory about Baker to make her story seem more "balanced" and thus believable to those who might feel that this gives her story more credibility?

If however, Anna Lewis is telling the truth in that interview, about what she claims she personally witnessed regards Baker's and Oswald's close relationship, isn't it a little more difficult to dismiss Baker's story entirely?

And what is known about Anna Lewis's deceased husband's recollection of an Oswald-Baker relationship?

Since coming onto the JFK assassination research scene, Judyth Baker can't seem to help herself in so many ways regards turning people off to her personality and her veracity. She often appears to be just as her detractors describe and it is easy to understand why so many dislike her personally.

But, looking back on and reading about Baker's documented history as a highly achieving star student and being recognized with awards and a scholarship to a renown college, one sees a super motivated, focused, driven, assertive, confident and willfully aggressive young woman who probably had to have those traits to achieve as much as she did in her academic endeavors.

I believe that people who are born with these aggressive alpha, control freak traits ( like Baker) must have this to obsessively see through their required work and realize their higher than average goals.  

Bill Gates reportedly was like this when young and during his rise to the top and extremely disliked. He has been described as ruthless, self-centered, controlling and unfeeling of others, you name it.  I think I read once that he was so difficult like this as a child that his parents had to arrange counseling therapy to see what could be done about his behavior.

I tend to consider Baker as difficult like this because she appears to be one of these high strung, controlling personality trait people who so often grate others to the point of extreme dislike.

However, I can't dismiss J.V, Baker and her story completely.

She was in NO at the same time as Oswald. She worked at Reilly's at the same time. She mentioned some details about Oswald that I don't think have ever been described before. Did Oswald wear "flip'flop" type shoes at any point in his life in NO?  I know, that little anecdote from Baker means little. And as far as retaining solid material evidence from 40 to 50 years previous, how many of us have ever kept anything from our young twenties lives when we traveled around a few times and tried out living in some areas temporarily?

And I could see someone like Oswald falling for someone like Baker.  Baker was smart and talkative and Oswald could have serious conversations with her. She wasn't unattractive.  She was inspired and energetic.

I could see Oswald craving this kind of interaction with another woman versus his financially stressful, constantly arguing, stunted conversation deteriorating relationship with Marina.

I don't believe everything Judyth Baker claims about her time in NO and with Oswald  ( and earning money from them has clearly been a factor )  but I just can't blow her whole story off as a complete lie and fantasy.  

You could speculate that the Milwaukee restaurant registry entry was a prank of some sort. How anyone could erase another person's name in that specific date and write in Oswald's would be an interesting trick if these were ink entries.

But, was any official comparative handwriting analysis done on that Lee Oswald registration signature?

When someone of William Harvey's occupation and connections aligns themselves more with members of the mob, with their history of sick murderous corruption and who openly wanted JFK and RFK permanently out of the way, than his own President and Attorney General, you cannot ignore the implications of that shared high powered JFK hating devil's pact.

It's like all the self-interested non-elected highest power groups of that time, no matter how nefarious and diverse their philosophies and agendas, bonded together with one common goal of highest priority...getting rid of the main threat to their interests - JFK & RFK.

Mafia, the most extreme right groups, raging racists, big oil - wealthiest men in the world at that time, highest authority secret government and their leaders, highest military leadership and the MIC, LBJ, Hoover, Nixon, hot blooded anti-Castro Cubans, etc.etc.

JFK didn't have a chance against the full force of a common bond juggernaut like that.

I just read the Ronald Ecker piece and have read this twice before.

The more I read of strange and possibly JFK assassination connected stories like this in my later life, which allows me the time and freedom to do so, I am struck with a common and unsettling realization thought.

And that is the growing awareness of a reality of the world around us being a much darker, corrupt and secret hidden agenda one than most average people could even imagine. 

Even if this Osborne fellow wasn't directly involved with Lee Harvey Oswald it is clear and documented enough to conclude that he was involved in secret doings most of his older adult life that were of a nature far from the innocent and benevolent image of helping and guiding poor abandoned orphans to see and live and spread the Christian gospel.

One of the most disturbing aspects of serious study of the JFK murder has been the frequent findings of previously well hidden doors that upon opening and entering reveal dark caverns of secret agenda and usually constitution violating corruption in size and scope and on levels that just shake you. 

You realize that for generations since probably WW II, we have lived in a society that is so much more influenced and controlled by powerful secret and non-elected groups and people with their own separate self interested agendas  ( other than the common good of us all ) than most Americans want to believe.

Eisenhower tried to give us a push into understanding and confronting this darker societal reality but his farewell speech warning was neglected and left to be nothing more than a hardly mentioned side note of our historical record.

God help us in our effort to keep the JFK-in-Dallas 11,22,1963 truth search from becoming the same.

I believe that Bill Harvey's wife and her husband's summed up feelings about JFK ( as heard in the YouTube interview posted earlier in this thread ) are more telling than many would think.

In this, she referred in a disgusted tone to both JFK and his wife as "real scum" and "idiots." 

Now this is something she said in her older, near end of life years.

You would think that with the living of life and experiencing the ups and downs and sadness and losses and self-reflections of such, combined with the usual tempering of age, that Mrs. Harvey might finally have one ounce of sympathy for someone like Jackie Kennedy and her children and their tragic loss of their father before she herself left this mortal coil and faced her own life review judgement.

But no...this disparaging old woman seems as hard and mean and hateful in her last years as the poison apple one in Snow White regards JFK and Jackie Kennedy and even RFK.

And if Mrs. Harvey felt that at ease openly expressing such deep despising of JFK in her last years in a public shared interview, one can imagine how much more hateful she and her husband were " in private " toward JFK during his presidency and up to 11,22,1963.

Coupled with Mrs.Harvey's perverse and sickening praise of Mafiosi Johnny Roselli as a true "patriot" at the same time disdainfully trashing JFK as "scum" ...You certainly have someone ( and her husband ) whose psychological bent hatred of JFK was so obvious and great, you are forced by reason in that scientific field to at least consider them as, in the least, unsympathetic to his removal, even in the brutal way it was carried out.

W. Harvey and D. Rosales were both reported to express not just this extreme and deep level hate and disgust toward JFK when he was alive, but even bragging about how they ( Rosales anyway ) got rid of this bastard and his brother later on.

JFK simply had too many powerful enemies in this country like those two to ever survive trying to change the status quo which enabled them. 

On YouTube Right Now

Bumping this thread to generate more comments on Bill Harvey and David Morales.

Whenever I see the Albert Thomas-To-LBJ smiling and winking photo, I feel anger.

M. Walton I don't think the Albert Thomas-to-LBJ winking photo is too off topic regards the subject of  LBJ's level of corruption.

I also consider this photo one of the three most disturbing ( to a sickening and disgusting degree ) I have come across in my JFK assassination historical interest quest.

Isolated Zapruder film frame 313 is of course the most disturbing image of all. The autopsy full facial and naked body one of JFK on the slab or table perhaps the second most.

These images are the stuff of nightmares. One's that millions of us have all probably had.

But to see the almost indescribable facial expression anguish of Jackie Kennedy in the wink photo juxtaposed with Thomas's  smiling, winking, almost celebratory " Atta Boy Lyndon - you did it Baby!" one just  shakes and wrenches my gut feeling suspicion regards LBJ's ( and those close to him ) corrupt , even evil nature.

14 hours ago, Steve Rymer said:

 

Steve R. I agree with most of what you are stating.

Paul, I am not disbelieving of Ruth Paine's answer to your question as to what her and her husband meant by one of them saying "We both know who's responsible."

I think most Americans on 11,22,1963 knew something about the extreme right wing and JFK hating mentality of the most powerful and wealthy of Texas and who lived in the Dallas area.  Also the JFK hating race mind set in many Southern cities such as Dallas. 

Who wouldn't suspect someone in JFK's murder who would go so far in their hatred to pay for and distribute something as inflammatory as those JFK "Wanted For Treason" flyers and newspaper ads?

Most adult Americans knew JFK was hated "rabidly" all across America but especially the South for his stance on the race issue.

It's important to know however that Ruth Paine did acknowledge the call and the "we both know who's responsible" statement made in this.