Micah Mileto
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Posts posted by Micah Mileto
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Doug Horne Replies: On Oswald’s Earnings
Now if we could only see more information on Roy Truly's income....
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On 3/14/2022 at 7:51 AM, W. Tracy Parnell said:
Doug Horne Replies: On Oswald’s Earnings
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On 3/23/2022 at 3:15 PM, James DiEugenio said:
Micah:
Miller's meeting with Perry was alone. And that is what Perry told him.
What is in The Parkland Doctors, that happened years before Moore encountered Jim.
So now you have four independent witnesses : The Parkland Doctors witness, McClelland; the nurse who talked to Perry the next day; Steadman's notes which came from Perry himself; and then Miller much later.
As far as I can see, none of those four had anything to do with Moore.
I mean really, how many independent witnesses do you need?
Perry changed his story. And he did so under pressure. Period.
And it looks like Steve Roe has donned disguises in order to create a disinfo machine. Has anyone been able to find any kind of legitimate enterprise for steveroeconsulting? Is it architecture? Is it accounting? Is it commercial real estate? It is financing stock purchases?
Everyone search for what it is. Because I have found nothing but JFK stuff. And look at Quora, that Andrew Jackson alias sure looks like roe.
Sockpuppetry.
So both James Gochenaur via Elmer Moore and Dr. Donald Miller via Perry corroborate the idea that Perry was warned right after his first press conference, to stop calling the throat wound a bullet entrance? Sorry, it just wasn't totally clear in the film
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13 hours ago, Pat Speer said:
Does it ever seem like Perry is holding back some information, when he goes back and forth between insisting it was an entry wound and just saying it could've been an exit wound?
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8 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:
Weak sauce! Soon I'll post a much better, more concise summary of Crenshaw. 99% of it is already done in a text document. Most of the information linked above is useless in assessing the credibility of Crenshaw.
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1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:
But it actually started earlier, that day, right after the press conference. Someone grabbed him by the arm, and said "Don't you ever say that again." That is in the film The Parkland Doctors.
I don't think Dr. McClelland claimed that Perry every told him this, and I don't think Dr. Donald Miller ever claimed to have exclusive information on this story, this story seems to trace back to James Gochenaur in 2007. And we have Gochenaur saying in the 70's that Elmer Moore denied "twisting Perry's arm".
From JFK and the Unspeakable by James W. Douglass, 2008:
[...6. Washington and Dallas]
Dr. Perry's retraction was not only manipulated but given under stress. He had been threatened beforehand by "the men in suits," specifically the Secret Service. As Dallas Secret Service agent Elmer Moore would admit to a friend years later, he "had been ordered to tell Dr. Perry to change his testimony. " Moore said that in threatening Perry, he acted " on orders from Washington and Mr. Kelly of the Secret Service Headquarters. "555
Moore confessed his intimidation of Dr. Perry to a University of Washington graduate student, Jim Gochenaur, with whom he became friendly in Seattle in 1970. Moore told Gochenaur he "had badgered Dr. Perry" into "making a flat statement that there was no entry wound in the neck."556 Moore admitted, " I regret what I had to do with Dr. Perry. "557 However, with his fellow agents, he had been given "marching orders from Washington. " He felt he had no choice: "I did everything I was told, we all did everything we were told, or we'd get our heads cut off. "558 In the cover-up, the men in suits were both the intimidators and the intimidated.
[...Notes]
555 . House Select Committee witness Jim Gochenaur to interviewer Bob Kelley on Gochenaur's conversations with Secret Service agent Elmer Moore. Notes by Bob Kelley on June 6, 1975; pp. 3-4. JFK Record Number 157-10005-10280.
556. From transcribed copy by House Select Committee on Assassinations of taperecorded conversation with James Gochenaur, May 10, 1977, p. 22. JFK Record Number 180-10086-10438.
557. Author's interview with Jim Gochenaur, April 28, 2007.
558. Moore cited by Gochenaur. HSCA conversation with Gochenaur, May 10, 1977, p. 23. Also Jim Gochenaur's letter to the author, October 23, 2007.
Dr. Robert McClelland lecture at Bayor University 10/24/2013 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSFF8CzJC3g 52:54
No, no, no. The only one that I know was warned like that was Dr. Perry, I don't know of anybody, none of the rest of us were ever told, you know, 'keep your mouth shut' or any of that, that was never done, so...
And like many, Dr. McClelland has struggled to fill in the blanks about the details of the assassination himself. He frequently references one book “of the 32,000 out there” on the event – JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters, by James W. Douglass, which argues that military and intelligence agencies in the U.S. are responsible for President Kennedy’s assassination and the subsequent cover-up. According to Douglass, those organizations were upset by JFK’s evolving stance on the Cold War and, desperate to win, they plotted Kennedy’s death because he was “getting in the way” of their plans for a nuclear strike.
For McClelland, that book seems to offer answers to the questions he’s been grappling with over the last fifty years – in particular, why his colleague, Dr. Perry, who also treated the President that day, would never speak of the assassination (“If you ever even mentioned the assassination [to Dr. Perry], he would cloud up and say, ‘I don’t talk about that,’ period.”) If you take Douglass at his word, a Secret Service agent approached Perry shortly after he’d given a description of JFK’s wounds to the media – when he’d pointed to his neck and seemed to imply that the entrance wound was there. That agent supposedly threatened Perry, ordering him never to talk about the assassination again…”or else,” Dr. McClelland emphasizes.
2014 McClelland interview where he says the following, 24:06: https://www.parklandsurgical.com/home/2014/7/25/a-conversation-with-dr-robert-mcclelland
Audience member: I read that Mac Perry originally had said that he characterized the neck wound as a quote 'wound of entrance'. And I also know that subsequent to that, to his dying day, he never spoke about it again.
McClelland: He would not say anything to anybody, me or any other- anybody at all, he was just completely- said nothing. Recently I read a book out of all of the some three thousand books that are written about this, and apparently, according to the author of this book, someone had come up to Dr. Perry after he gave his initial testimony- or, not testimony, but initial interview to the many newsmen that were gathered in the grand rounds room at Parkland right after this event happened. And Dr. Perry had made a comment about this being possibly an entrance wound in his neck. And according to this book, and this again is, you know, maybe [inaudible], maybe not. Someone with an American flag in his lapel, you know, you know, you know, Secret Service man, maybe not, came up to him and he said 'Dr. Perry', he said, 'whatever you do, do not ever say that that was an entrance wound again if you know what's good for you'. Other than that, Not only did Dr. Perry never say that was an entrance wound, he never said anything, period, at all about it to me or to anybody else. And he left town right after this event and went down to South Texas where his mother-in-law lived.
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49 minutes ago, David Andrews said:
As I read it, it's much of the face covered for treating the throat wound, with more than one doctor saying the back of the head was not obscured. The procedural illustrations of standard practices bear that out.
Ah, ok. I edited my description out.
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The Draping of President Kennedy by Davy Jones, University of Kentucky College of Medicine, 11/11/2018:
https://toxicology.med.uky.edu/sites/default/files/The Draping of President Kennedy.pdf
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10 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:
It seems clear that, at some point during the attempted resuscitation, somebody said out loud "theres a large wound on the back of his head", "a piece of cerebellum fell out".
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4 hours ago, Pat Speer said:
I don't think that answered the question. Someone called me out of the blue yesterday and asked my help in finding Carlier's communication with Perry. I had it, so I sent it to him. I would have sent it to you should you have asked. It's not all that important, but I would like to know if he called me on your behalf.
Yesterday? The article I linked came out 3 days ago. I never knew any of these guys.
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2 hours ago, Pat Speer said:
O.K. What's going on? I supplied someone with a copy of this letter from Perry to Carlier just yesterday and within hours here you are posting it online. This is fine, as I'm fairly certain Francois posted it here to begin with. But I'd like to know if this person was contacting me on your behalf.
Nice little gem - for me there's nothing like rediscovering an old forgotten medical statement.
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This is from the 10/23/1997 response letter by Dr. Perry. Try to spot the difference between the bold and non-bold text:
30 plus years have not improved my recall. My sworn testimony is in the records, and has not changed. Many people have misquoted me and more often taken my comments out of context (this is why I have not given public interviews for many years). I'll try to answer your questions in order. […]
[…]
A. did you have the time to see his wounds?
Briefly. I did not even wipe the blood from the anterior neck wound before doing the tracheostomy. I was in a hurry to secure an airway and hopefully save his life.
E. could you give a precise measurement of the wound in the throat before you did the tracheotomy?
See Above. No one else saw the wound despite what you may have read. Dr. Jones, Carrico and I only, and then without further exam I did the trach.
2. You are aware of Dr. Charles Crenshaw's book.
A. Do you say he was with you in Trauma Room 1?
B. What do you think of his claims?
(He was once a student and resident of mine years ago) I don't remember him being there. He had no part in the decision-making or the resuscitation attempts. Many people (even dozens) now claim to have helped me then (and when I operated on Oswald)
3. You know David Lifton and Robert Groden. They are well-known Kennedy assassination researchers. They have talked to you or interviewed you.
I don't read or watch or talk about these tragic events. I've no desire to relive that weekend.
A. Have they sometimes misquoted you?
Yes
B. do you think they have uncovered evidence?
No
C. do you agree with their conclusions, as far as you are concerned?
I Don’t know their claims.
D. Do you agree with Lifton's general conclusion regarding the whole medical case?
Don't know what they say.
E. Do you agree with Groden's general conclusion regarding the whole medical case?
I've not read anything they wrote; they have no real information.
4. David Lifton has written a book "Best evidence", in which he claims Kennedy's body was stolen and his wounds were altered.
I didn't know this - what a joke!
A. have you ever discussed that theory with your colleagues?
No
B. as a physician, do you think his theory is possible?
C. what did you think of that theory?
Don't know (or really care what he says. He wasn't there)
[…]
E. how can you explain the very large hole in Kennedy's throat that can be seen in the autopsy photos?
I did a transverse incision through the ant. neck wound to perform the tracheostomy. How large? Large enough to get the job done quickly, and then I inserted a large metal flanged trach tube.
5. You know Gerald Posner's book "Case closed". In it, he says he has interviewed the Dallas doctors and that makes him think that conspiracy theorists are wrong.
A. Has he sometimes misquoted you?
B. do you think he is right in his conclusions?
I think Mr. Poser did a better job in objective evaluation. He is probably correct. As far as I know he has not misquoted me, but I don't read about it.
[...]
I've met only one person who have studied the entire 26 volumes of the Warren Report. It's difficult for me to accept as as serious any person who has not done his or her "homework". That would necessarily include a careful study of the sworn testimony before declaring it invalid. I believe most people who have written about the events did so for money and not to seek the truth. Can you imagine how many people would have had to agree a priori to participate in a conspiracy? that theory lacks face value, and is ludicrous. We all tried our best to tell the truth and all of the truth.
mp
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On 3/20/2022 at 8:31 AM, W. Tracy Parnell said:
If Perry was trying to insist that only himself, Carrico and Ronald Jones saw the original throat wound, that may partially support Lifton's recent idea that there was no trach incision, and that all descriptions of a trach incision are lies or misunderstandings.
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40 minutes ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:
If we consider the total history of Dr. Perry's statements, he went back and forth as to whether he still believed it was an entry wound or an exit wound. For example, according to Harrison Livignstone, Perry said on 8/10/1979 “My whole credibility as a trauma surgeon was at stake…I COULDN’T have made a mistake like that. It destroys my integrity if I don’t know an entrance wound from an exit wound!”, “he has told me often enough that what he said in 1963 stands”. Sometimes Perry's statements about his personal opinions give the impression that he's holding back something - a point of mystery, given the other issues with witness statements being too vague. Either way, we know that the Parkland descriptions of the pre-incision throat wound are compatible with how we know entry wounds look - it's just that there is still too little information to prove that there couldn't be a small exit wound under those circumstances. If proven that such an exit wound would be incompatible with the Parkland descriptions, that may amount to proof of a conspiracy.
We also have indications that Perry described making a smaller trach incision than the one shown in the autopsy records and photographs.
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On 12/10/2021 at 3:31 PM, David Lifton said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySO0pLcN5ww&
At 45:28 into this 2015 interview with Dr. Robert McClelland, he says "We know that he had a little wound in his neck, next to but not through the windpipe".
Do you have any idea what this could mean? I have sensed before, while reading earlier Parkland medical statements, some hesitation or vagueness in describing damage to the trachea. Is it possible the trachea was not pierced at all, but rather just the tissue next to it? I was under the impression that the official story had the bullet piercing the right side of the trachea, leaving an open wound, and that the trachea ended up (officially) having both a pre-existing defect from a bullet and the surgical defect made over it. Maybe the Parkland witnesses just had a hard time making out the nature of the injuries under the blood and darkness or just couldn't remember?
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On 2/11/2021 at 3:39 PM, Pete Mellor said:
Transcription of presentation given by Bethesda witness Jim Jenkins with researcher William Law, given at the ‘November in Dallas’ ‘JFK Lancer’ conference at the Adolphus Hotel on Friday 22nd November 2013.
Thanks for posting! Is there a longer transcript?
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Who is Bishop?
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On 3/8/2022 at 3:41 PM, Pat Speer said:
My understanding is that someone left a memo in the HSCA's files saying there was material on CE 567 and that it should be examined. In the 1990's John Orr, hoping the material would track back to Connally, successfully pushed for it to be examined.
It turned out to be human tissue, with insufficient DNA to point to Kennedy or Connally. This wasn't what Orr had hoped for, so it was largely ignored.
The problem, however, is that the skin on the bullet nose is the smoking gun that will re-open this case IF people will finally accept it for what it is. This skin could only have come from Kennedy's large head wound. It proves the bullet impacted at the supposed exit. This means two head wounds. When you read forensic books and journals this is clear as can be.
I don't know if it's "proof", but there is like one scientific paper suggesting that bullets striking tangentially can result in a lot of missing skin, but there is no total scientific proof that shows only a tangential wound could leave so much skin on the bullet. Seems simple enough, a bullet scraping along the body is more likely to scrape off skin, but it is too hard to jump to conclusions with ballistics. Although I must say that your theory on the shooting is pretty good compared to others.
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14 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:
If you recall what Oliver said on Rogan: We drove a stake though the heart of CE 399.
And we did.
CE 399 was never fired in Dealey Plaza that day.
And we proved it about four different ways.
End of story.
Some might think of CE 567 as the "good brother", but CE 567 is the label given to not just the nose fragment but FOUR particles of (human?) tissue that are in the same container fragment. I could not find any evidence that the tissue was originally attached to the nose fragment. I am aware of nothing from the 1960's FBI investigation that acknowledged the tissue - no photograph, no written report. Robert Frazier told the Warren Commission that he wiped BLOOD off of the nose fragment, he mentioned nothing about tissue, and I am not aware of any blood sample that was catalogued onto evidence. The 1990's FBI re-examination of CE 567 only found non-tissue fibers embedded on the nose fragment. The tissue could have been a totally separate artifact that was added later.
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On 3/8/2022 at 12:22 AM, James DiEugenio said:
According to Horne that was not the case, he asked his contact to double check it.
It couldn't just be "they lost the record"? There exist records that specifically prove the negative that Oswald and Truly were not paid?
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3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:
This should actually be in the JFK Revisited thread but since Micah started a separate thread, I will place it here.
To me, what Horne's info indicates is that either Oswald was being paid by the CIA, or that he was paid by a specialized section of military intelligence.
(I should also add, there is a book coming out soon that will say Oswald was at Nag's Head.)
To me, if the deduction that Oswald was an intel assignment before he left for Russia is accurate then it explains a few things.
1. The sensational work by Betsy Wolf about the rigging of Oswald's file at CIA in advance: that is why his papers did not go where they should have, and why no 201 file was opened until 13 months later.
2. The almost unbelievable oddities surrounding his hardship early leave. Which was not ever credible on its own terms.
3. How he knew to go to Helsinki for the easy and fast entrance into the USSR.
4. His staying at two of the swankiest hotels in that city, one of them an absolute 5 star, and the other about a. 4.5 star. When, in fact, he should have been at a Motel 6.
Is there any chance that this is simply a case of a record being lost, or does the record specifically say that Oswald and Shelly weren't paid? This is strange information because it sounds groundbreaking at first, but then again it might just depend on the public's limited knowledge on the very niche subject of 50's-60's-era payment records? Or no?
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10 hours ago, Lawrence Schnapf said:
but the 3D Model that John Orr has developed suggests that a bullet hitting JBC would have essentially circumcised him because of the trajectory and not gone into his wrist (full disclosure- i am one of the investors in this project).
Thanks for your reply.
So it would seem that, not only does your 3D model refute the Single Bullet Theory, but it also refutes most other possible theories on the single assassin story. I was wondering, in the new 3D model, is there any opportunity for a clear shot from the Sixth Floor into Connally's official entry wound?
I can't help but envision a scenario in which the government finally admits the SBT isn't true but still tries to resurrect the single assassin story by theorizing that Oswald shot slow-moving bullets made by removing powder from Carcano ammunition. Yes, it would contradict the previous official interpretation of Connally's reactions Zapruder film, but conspiracy theorists have also came up with strange ideas on when Connally was hit in the Zapruder film, so maybe objections would be droned out, and seem to the average person as just quibbling over a blurry video.
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Doug Horne says this 8 minutes in to part 4 of JFK: Destiny Betrayed. According to some kind of earnings records with the Social Security office, Oswald was not paid any money for the last quarter year before he defected to the Soviet Union. Any more info on this? Jim DiEugenio said that Doug Horne was partially afraid of being arrested if he gave out some information for the documentary - is this that info?
New book - The Other Oswald: A Wilderness of Mirrors
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
Looks like a hot ticket! This will be nice for getting into Webster!