Michael Clark

Are we seeing an unwitting of sheep dipping of Dulles by way of the Paines? Is that his path to patsification, Like Oswald through Cubans with Fake Commie credentials? So Dulles is, like Ruby, is forced to scramble-in for the cover-up? Sorry for the questions. I'm Just thinking out loud. Recently my thinking has become more informed by the Philadelphia connection, as presented by Ashton Gray in the Liddy-Marathon oil thread; which, to me, is in large part about the Paines. So I am also Hypothesizing a "Go" on the kill plan as coming from the Eastern Establishment, down, more or less directly to operators like Hunt (Ashton Gray points out the conspicuous absence of G Gordon Liddy through this period). The hit is carried-out without CIA top level sanctioning. How high does the cover-up go in the CIA, and at what points along the time-line?

1979 Interview with Landsdale. I started taking notes later in the interview. -A general snapshot of Landsdale in The Phillipines and the Transfer to Vietnam. -A glimpse of French-influenced and controlled Indochina. -@17:30 a very brief mention of a more-or-less casual Opium Culture, during French rule. No further mention of narcotics. -Problems with graft -City vs. countryside. -Relationship between Diem and Lasdale. A rather intimate description ----Prtrait of Diem; Intimate, humanizing. -Providing guidance for Diem -----An interesting Socratic approach -Social Phiosophy differences

I think I am seeing your point Cliff... Strategic VS. Tactical. Especially at his age. Cheers, Michael

That link is broken. I believe that this link will get you there: http://spartacus-educational.com/2WWhiroshima.htm

I am a Hstory buff. I have a particular interest in WWll Pacific Naval history. Back in October of 2016 I wrote a short recap of the Battle of Leyte Gulf for my Facebook page. It was, being intended for Facebook, necessarily brief; I wanted to give the story a chance to be read by a wide range of readers. Having some background in journalism, I have a respect for brevity; it is something for which I did seem to have knack, back in the day. Creating a brief history of such an Epic 5-day struggle was the challenge. So, I thought I would share those entries here. As my tribute to the armed forces of the US, and in commemoration of a WW2 battle that has fascinated me for years, I will remember, here, the events of The Battle of Leyte Gulf; which occurred from October 23-26, 1944. In fulfilling the promise made that we "Shall Return" to the Philippines, the US Navy fought what was and still is, arguably, the largest Naval battle ever. Meanwhile, in an amphibious landing on a scale comparable to that of Normandy, but with far less initial opposition, US forces landed in the Phillipines at Letye Gulf, and began the process of liberating that country. The Submarine Action at Palawan Passage, The opening salvos of The Battle of Leyte Gulf. The Japanese Center Force, departing Brunei for Leyte. The ships Damaged and sunk by US subs, Dace and Darter, are indicated. This was a spectacularly productive attack by these two ships. Two American submarines, on the night of October 22, spotted the massive center force of the Japanese Navy, moving west to east in the South China Sea. The two subs reported their sighting, chased the fleet and attacked. In an unusually effective attack with torpedoes, the SS Dace and the SS Darter sunk two heavy cruisers and damaged another so severely that it had to limp home. The SS Darter grounded on a reef as it chased the damaged cruiser and it was never refloated. The sailors were rescued by the Dace and the first action in the Battle was over. Our forces were alerted, the Japanese Admiral had his flagship sunk from underneath him, his fleet took a serious punch to the gut, and the battle was on. Ulithi Atoll, about 700 miles east of Leyte Gulf, a ring of islands and reefs, it was large enough to shelter nearly 1000 Naval vessels. For seven months during WW2, Ulithi atoll was the busiest port in the world. Four months prior to the Leyte Gulf landings, US naval forces clashed with the Japanese in the Battle of the Philippine sea in the final of 5 engagements where the main fleets never saw one another. The Japanese lost around 600 airplanes and their crews. Three Japanese fleet aircraft carriers were also sunk; 2 lost to submarine torpedoes and one to US air strikes. US losses were minimal in comparison. This battle was dubbed The Great Marianas Turkey Shoot by pilots. In September, while Adm. Bill Halsey was throwing jabs at the Japanese here and there, he noticed that the beaches at Leyte Gulf were undefended and that resistance to air strikes was minimal. Upon alerting Nimitz and MacArthur to this opportunity, plans for a landing further to the south were abandoned and all resources were thrown at a plan to invade the Philippines at Leyte, months ahead of schedule. In early October, Halsey launched strikes at the Japanese held island of Taiwan. Again, about 600 Japanese planes were destroyed to a comparably few number of US planes. This set of circumstances and aggressive actions set in motion the invasion and devastating blow to the Japanese a few weeks later at Leyte and all around the Philippine islands. On October 23, 1944, two Japanese battle groups were making their way through the western Philippines with the plan to emerge on the eastern shores and attack the American landing forces at Leyte, one from the south and one from the north. Further north, a Japanese force of the remaining aircraft carriers was sent to be sacrificed as decoys to draw away US forces to allow their two fleets of surface vessels to attack the US landing zone unhindered. The decoy aircraft carrier force had few planes and pilots due to the devastating blows delivered by the Americans over the prior months. Of note, the two largest battleships ever built, with the largest guns ever mounted on a ship were part of the Japanese center force; the Yamato and the Musashi. Admiral John Mccain SR.'s fleet was released to go replenish at Ulithi and it would miss the upcoming battle. The Battleship Yamato October 24, 1944 As the Japanese center fleet made its way through the Philippine islands, heading for the open waters of the South Pacific on its way to challenge US forces at Leyte Gulf, It was spotted by US planes. Over the course of the day, the US threw 259 missions at them. Hits were scored on several ships. One heavy cruiser was severely damaged and had to turn away from the battle. The Musashi, sister ship to the Yamato, both being the largestbattleships ever constructed, received the brunt of the American air attacks and was sunk. Japanese land base planes were effectively fended off yet one plane hit the light carrier USS Princeton with a 500 lb. bomb at 9:30 AM. The crew fought to contain the fires on the Princeton and the Cruiser Birmingham pulled up along side to assist fighting the fires. An explosion from the ignition of fumes wracked the Princeton, and the Birmingham was severely damaged as well. 9 hours after being hit with a single bomb, the Princeton was given up as lost and intentionally sunk. Top two photos.Light Carrier Princeton, mortally wounded, receives assistance from the Birmingham. Bottom: The Japanese Center Force under attack, The Musashi taking blows that will prove to be fatal, in the foreground. The center Japanese force turned around apparently in retreat, but they were not done yet. The southern force continued on its way, was also spotted and attacked but received only minor damage. The northern decoy force was maneuvering and trying to be spotted so the Americans would be diverted to attack them. Ironically it took until the afternoon on the 24th for the one fleet of Japanese ships that wanted to be spotted to be detected. Admiral Halsey made preparations and headed north to destroy them. He had believed that the center force was more damaged than it was and that they would not be heard from again. On the morning of October 25th, Halsey's force launched 527 devastating Airstrikes against the Northern decoy force but the guns of his battleships and cruisers never opened fire because he had to turn back when the Japanese center force reappeared after having, again, reversed course during the night. The American forces guarding Leyte gulf were surprised to find their fleet of destroyers and small escort carriers facing the massive Japanese fleet alone and without warning. Halsey's fleet would be of no help as it was too far north. The ensuing desperate battle is well documented and is truly a David and Goliath tale of epic proportions. It is one of the reasons I find this 5 day engagement so compelling. These short entries, for the purpose of remembrance, cannot do these engagements any justice; but I will continue to summarize. An American Escort Carrier and Destroyer, struggling desperately to survive the fire coming from a Japanese Battleship (?), in the distance. The massive Japanese fleet appeared on the horizon. 18" shells started splashing and the little escort carriers turned south, launched every plane they could with whatever weapon they had on them. A single five inch gun on the back of each of the carriers began throwing peas. The small band of destroyers started making a smoke screen for the carriers and then attacked, desperately and suicidally. The combined affect of the ferocious attacks made the Japanese think they were attacking a much stronger fleet and they once again retreated, for good, after sinking one escort carrier and several destroyers. The Americans left their mark by sinking and heavily damaging a number of Japanese ships. Halsey's fleet arrived too late, but had sunk three light aircraft carriers and one fleet carrier before it turned around. To the south, the southern Japanese fleet approached in two waves. The first wave was devastated by accurate fire from a line of American Battleships and cruisers, after having been attacked by patrol boats and destroyers with torpedoes. The second wave reversed direction and avoided the complete destruction that it had witnessed the first wave suffer. It was the last time that battleships would ever fight In such a naval gun duel. This was also the first battle that saw the use of Kamikaze strikes. A second escort carrier became a victim of such an attack and was sunk. For the most part, the Battle of Leyte gulf had ended. The Japanese were defeated tactically and strategically. Many lives were lost. It is a battle which gets little attention, but the sacrifices and efforts were monumental. I hope that these efforts and sacrifice will be remembered. I hope that this small effort to memorialize this engagement will result in one or more persons reading about this epic battle for the first time. US Navy Imperial Japanese Navy ~300 ships in total[1] 8 fleet carriers 8 light carriers 18 escort carriers 12 battleships 24 cruisers 166 destroyers and destroyer escorts Many PT boats, submarines, and fleet auxiliaries About 1,500 planes 67+ ships in total 1 fleet carrier 3 light carriers 9 battleships 14 heavy cruisers 6 light cruisers 35+ destroyers 300+ planes (including land-based aircraft)[2] Casualties and losses ~3,000 casualties; 1 light carrier, 2 escort carriers, 2 destroyers, 1 destroyer escort sunk 200+ planes ~12,500 dead; 1 fleet carrier, 3 light carriers 3 battleships, 10 cruisers, 11 destroyers sunk ~300 planes[3]

I am afraid, Paul, that George has taken after you. He makes stuff up and speaks of it as if it were a commonly held truth. Cheers, Michael

Michael, How would you like me to address you on these forums? I would be happy to oblige. In case you were interested in the manner in which I would prefer to be addressed, I will let you know that I prefer Michael, or Mike. CLARK does not work for me. I'd hate to play silly games, and I would regard it as unbecoming of the dignity and respect for which I believe this forum would like to be known, but I would probably find myself, in times of failing, finding some manner to address you which I think you would not appreciate. Let's work together Michael. Lets not grind any axes for public display. What do you say? Cheers, Michael

Agreed!

All five videos of the Two Men in Dallas video series are on the first page of this thread: And a thread with Roger Craig's unpublished manuscript When They Kill a President

Mr. Plumlee's thoughts are pretty straight-forward.

edited

The moderators cleaned-up this thread. Thanks be to them. Lol I thought it would be interesting to collect some gem's from Education Forum Members. My intent is to list some Education Forum threads that pack a lot of information, and fill-out the story of the Coup of 1963. Top 10 is just a name for the thread. I don't even have 10, and some of them are just place-holders for other threads that I lost track of along the way. ****edit. Interest in the original idea seems limited, so I'll just use this to collect links and resources. My Top ten will stay. Feel free to post your own. My Top 10: I am including this one for now because of Tosh Plumlee's comments I'm just putting this here for the time being because I have one more thread to add to make 10; and it is a good, informative debate.

Walton, you just wasted 1000 words on blather, ranting and raving. I'd didn't read 5'words of it. You just continue to choke this thread.

Mocking sarcasm. Nothing critical (as opposed to normative) to say. No observations. No questions. Nothing collaborative. Nothing informative. No sense of collegiality. Michael, you just rant and rave about your disapproval of the efforts of others.

saboteur A saboteur is a person who makes a mess of a situation on purpose. You might call your little brother a saboteurfor letting the air out of your bicycle tires, but you could be a saboteur in return by filling his shoes with cold spaghetti. Saboteur is a noun that is fairly new to the English language; it was first used in the early 1900s, and it refers to a person who deliberately destroys or obstructs something. It comes from the French word, saboter, which really and truly means to kick something with an old-fashioned wooden shoe. We can only hope that one day the word Nikeur might enter the English language to mean a person who kicks something with a sneaker. Definitions of saboteur 1 nsomeone who commits sabotage or deliberately causes wrecks Synonyms: diversionist, wrecker Types: sleeper a spy or saboteur or terrorist planted in an enemy country who lives there as a law-abiding citizen until activated by a prearranged signal Type of: destroyer, ruiner, undoer, uprooter, waster a person who destroys or ruins or lays waste to na member of a clandestine subversive organization who tries to help a potential invader Synonyms: fifth columnist Type of: traitor, treasonist someone who betrays his country by committing treason https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/saboteur

Len, do you know what happened to Gaal?

Joe, I am very appreciative that you apparently approve of my tendency to bring up old threads. I have seen mixed responses. I had hoped that over time I would be able to materially contribute worthwhile material to the forum. However, I see that my personal contributions really don't move-out of the armature catagory. It's getting embarrassing and my bumping of old threads is probably getting old. I'll be doing less of it. Regarding history. I feel like we have won. As long as this forum and others like it remain intact, the true history is preserved. It is here for everyone, who really wants to know the truth, to discover. I think that the answers are here. I take some comfort in that. I think it is almost better to have a pile of disarticulated pieces of the truth than having to decide who's assemblage of those pieces is best. There was so much involved that no particular reconstruction will amount to more than a house of cards. The assemblage that is the WCR is a joke to anyone who inspects the foundations, walls and roof. No credible person buys it. It stands as a litmus test to credibility. I think we have to forgive those who HAVE to walk by it and say "yup, looks like a house", while disguising the words "of cards" under cover of a sneeze or cough. It is the salesmen, who keep this card-house listed and keep showing it for sale, and *** about its worthiness, who are tainted and outed in this litmus test. The official story serves a very valuable purpose as a test of credibility, honor and, indeed, patriotism.

David, I hate photo analysis. I could sit here and point out odd things in that pic that say "hey, what's up with that ear, or hairline, or the balding pattern". You could too. I don't get into pi$$in matches over pictures. My statement was reasonable. Telling me I am playing games, when I am telling you what I see, think, and feel, is, at best, discourteous. Perhaps my prior characterizations could be construed as discourteous. In my defense, I don't mock or ridicule you or anyone, as a rule. I HAVE done that, but only in times of failure. It is not my MO.

What ever became of Gaal?

LOL, I saw a few reasonable posts, then BANG ZOOOOOM! And Colby and Gaal were off to the races!

By this, I am talking about the conspiracy to assassinate JFK. I've already said that I don't think that that person looks like JR.

.... but you could not bring yourself to say a word about the "other type". That elucidates a description of someone who is towing a line, or someone who is sociopathic.

DVP, as a follow-up. If you were trying to convince people that they are just wrong about this, if you were just trying to show them the light, your MO would not be one defined by a penchant to mock and ridicule them.

David, Do you have any sense of compassion for the great number of people who feel that they have lost so much? I'm not even talking about the life of one man, or three. It cannot be lost on you, after all of your work, that these people are not playing games. These people are looking to restore the loss of the legitimacy of their country. Surely you understand that. I'll ask again, do you have compassion for them, even if you feel that they are wrong? It's not a game. I believe that you know that. Is it, to you, a game? I sense that, to you, it is.

Thanks for playin DVP. It is what it is...