Michael Clark
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Posts posted by Michael Clark
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28 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:
ONi.
Guantanamo was as much an issue, then, as it was on January 19, 2017.
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Zapruper's film was critical to managing the information, after the fact. Abe Zapruder's story about being encouraged to go get his camera is a lie. Follow the film through the upper Midwest on its way to D.C.
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My theory is fluid. I have much reading to do. Answering this question, right here, right now, I would say...
LBJ, with his knack for getting a lot of dirty hands, including his own, to dismember a body, flush the fluids from the tub, and crush the bones to be spread out-back.
It helps that JEH lived across the street.
*** edit - it could not have been done without him.
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29 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:
Craig,
Perhaps most important about Seth Kantor's excellent book, Who Was Jack Ruby? (1978) was that Seth Kantor knew Jack Ruby personally in Dallas for many years, and was convinced of two propositions:
(2) Jack Ruby was manipulated into killing LHO at the prodding of the Dallas Police.These CT's are closer to solving the JFK assassination than fifty years worth of CIA-did-it CT's.
Regards,
--Paul TrejoThe threat that Ruby was under had to be far greater than being just a threat to his personal safety. It had to be a threat to his entire family or possibly to the Jewish people as a whole (White Russian Jews? Zionist Jews?). Guilt had to rest on Oswald or something major was going to happen. Simple manipulation by the DPD is not enough to explain it, IMHO.
Cheers,
Michael
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1 hour ago, Alistair Briggs said:
* Webb's Waffle Shop on the ground floor of the Southland Hotel.
Just as a point if interest:
Cool, thanks.
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Alistair, basically Senator says that Ruby woke him up, before dawn, picked-up Crafard, drove around. Took pics of the billboard, went to the post office, then to the Southland cafe and then home, around daybreak.
His testimony, over two days changes slightly. On the first day of testimony he says that he cannot remember anything til Saturday evening. The next day of testimony, seemingly under pressure (to me) he sort-of remembers having a drink with a friend at the Burgunby room and later, 7PMish, has a drink with the same guy at the same place. He remembers nothing more.
I have not found testimony from the guy at the post office or anyone at the Southland Cafe yet. If I did, I read it before I started taking notes. The whole Pic/post office/Southland cafe thing may have never happened, and that may explain why it makes no sense. The Polaroid pics are a thin slice of evidence on that sandwich.
Cheers,
Michael
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Testimony of Jack Ruby:
Chief Justice WARREN. I will be glad to talk that over, if we can. You might go right ahead, if you wish, with the rest of your statement.
Mr. RUBY. All right. I remained at KLIF from that moment on, from the time I got into the building, with Russ Knight. We talked about various things....------------------------------
So I remained there until about 2 a.m., and we all partook of the sandwiches and had a feast there.
And they spliced the various comments they got back and forth of Henry Wade, of Russ Knight's copy--of Russ Knight's items of Henry Wade.Chief Justice WARREN. Mr. Ruby, this is the young man, Mr. Specter. He is a member of our staff, and he comes from Philadelphia.
(Ruby shakes hands with Mr. Specter.)
Mr. RUBY. I am at a disadvantage, gentlemen, telling my story.
Chief Justice WARREN. You were right at the point where you had it about 2 o'clock in the morning, and you had had your feast, as you mentioned, and had talked to these men, and so forth. That was the last that you had told us.Mr. RUBY. Well, lots of things occurred up to that. They talked pro and con about the tragedy.
At 2 a.m, I left the building. I drove--I was going to go toward the Times Herald Building, because as a result-------------------------------------
As I was driving toward the Times Herald with the intention of doing these things, I heard someone honk a horn very loudly, and I stopped. There was a police officer sitting in a car. He was sitting with this young lady that works in my club, Kathy Kay, and they were very much carried away.
And I was carried away; and he had a few beers, and it is so bad about those places open, and I was a great guy to close; and I remained with them--did I tell you this part of it?
Mr. MOORE .I don't recall this part; no.
Mr. RUBY. I didn't tell you this part because at the time I thought a lot of Harry Carlson as a police officer, and either it slipped my mind in telling this, or it was more or less a reason for leaving it out, because I felt I didn't want to involve them in anything, because it was supposed to be a secret that he was going with this young lady. He had marital problems. I don't know if that is why I didn't tell you that. Anyway, I did leave it out. His name is Harry Carlson. Her name is Kathy Kay. And they talked and they carried on, and they thought I was the greatest guy in the world, and he stated they should cut this guy inch by inch into ribbons, and so on.And she said, "Well, if he was in England, they would drag him through the streets and would have hung him." I forget what she said. I left them after a long delay. They kept me from leaving. They were constantly talking and were in a pretty dramatic mood. They were crying and carrying on.
I went to the building of the Times Herald. I went to the Times Herald-----------------------------
Kathy Kay is running with Officer Olsen, and Officer Carlson? Ruby has the names mixed-up, or they changed names to protect the guilty.....
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Testimony of George Senator:
Mr. SENATOR. After he had woken me up on Saturday morning, there was a bunch of sandwiches still wrapped that hadn't been distributed, and--I don't know--I had no idea how many he bought or how many he had made, but he still come home with maybe 6, 8, 10, or 12 of those sandwiches.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What kind of sandwiches were they?
Mr. SENATOR. I think they were corn beef and pastrami on rye, if I remember right, on rye bread. This I do remember, and they were still on the kitchen table, and as a matter of fact they were in two bags, if I remember right. They were in two bags. I think he had some cake too, that he bought in the delicatessen.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You saw that Saturday morning when you got up?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
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Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember any discussion with Jack about those sandwiches? Mr. SENATOR. Yes; he had been to the police station and .he had passed out a lot to various policemen or plainclothesmen. I don't know who. I don't know who he passed them out to. But it seems like I gather that he must have had an awful lot of these made, or whatever it might have been. He must have had a slew of them made. Now why I did it I don't know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is this possible, that all you would have learned from him, you asked him "Where did you get these sandwiches" and he said "I got them for the men at the police station but they didn't eat them"? Could that have been the conversation?
Mr. SENATOR. No; he passed out some; I know. He said he had passed out some sandwiches. As a matter of fact he even took some to his sister.Mr. GRIFFIN. He took some sandwiches to his sister? When did he take the sandwiches to his sister?
Mr. SENATOR. That was sometime Friday.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where did you learn that?Mr. SENATOR. From Jack.
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Meanwhile..... Larry Crafard is lying on his cot, in the Carousel, talking with a girl he doesn't know, who called about getting a job there, and she is telling Larry that she is leaving town for good in the morning.
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Alistair, I was just preparing a post with Mrs. Olsen's testimony...... ha.
Mr. SPECTER. How long did you stay there at the club?
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, they close at 12.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you see anybody else you knew someplace else?
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, we went--do you want to know later what happened?
Mr. SPECTER. Fine.
Mrs. OLSEN. We went to the parking lot; we used to go over there and talk to Johnny.
Mr. SPECTER. Johnny who?
Mrs. OLSEN. I don't know.
Mr. SPECTER. Where is the parking lot located?
Mrs. OLSEN. Right behind the Carousel Club; across the street on--what street would that be?
Mr. SPECTER. Akard?
Mrs. OLSEN. Akard?
Mr. SPECTER. Jackson and Akard?
Mrs. OLSEN. Jackson.
Mr. SPECTER. Was that at the intersection of Jackson and Akard?
Mrs. OLSEN. No. Jackson and the next street down. What was that? Field Jackson and Field. And we sat in there and we talked.
Mr. SPECTER. How long did you talk to Johnny?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, quite a while.
Mr. SPECTER. Was anybody else there at that time?
Mrs. OLSEN. Not that I remember; no. And we were sitting there; it was late, and that's when Jack Ruby drove by.
Mr. SPECTER. What time did he drive by?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, I can't be positive on these times.
Mr. SPECTER. About what time?
Mrs. OLSEN. I guess around 1.
Mr. SPECTER. Did he stop?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes. We waved, and he stopped. He stopped at a red light and pulled in and he came in and sat in the car and talked to us for quite a while.
Mr. SPECTER. How long did that conversation last?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, I guess an hour or so at least.---------------------------
Mr. SPECTER. Is there anything else you can recollect about that conversation?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Had you talked to Ruby earlier on that Friday?
Mrs. OLSEN. No.
Mr. SPECTER. How long had you been at that parking lot before Ruby arrived?
Mrs. OLSEN. I guess about an hour, as close as I can remember.----------------------------
Mr. SPECTER. After Mr. Ruby left what did you and Mr. Olsen do next?
Mrs. OLSEN. We came home to my house.
Mr. SPECTER. What time did you arrive at your house?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, let me see. It was kind of late, I guess around 3. -
24 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:
Michael,
For a couple of other people who saw Ruby in the basement, see:
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on corner of Jackson and Field. (1300 Jackson Street). Conversation ended about 2 or 3 A.M.(14 H 631-2) dtd 8/6/64. In interview of 12/16 OLSEN stated they only talked to Jack for about ten minutes and Olsen placed the meeting at around 1:30 A.M. (25 H 279)
Steve Thomas
Thank you Steve
Michael
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I have limited bandwidth during most of the day. So I have to put off watching videos most of the time. It's just a few brief opportunities a day. Because of this I don't have info that is available to most people, all of the time.
Mike
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5 minutes ago, Alistair Briggs said:
I take it you are meaning conflicting accounts as to where Ruby was at that time?
Correct Alistair, I am now starting a thread titled: "The Two Jack Rubys"
just kidding.
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About 15 minutes into this video it is well established that Ruby was there and made the FPCC comment. The account is authentic IMO. What to make of conflicting accounts? IDK
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Alistair, I think it has to be frames from a film as they are taken apparently so close in time. I am looking for that footage.
Cheers, Mike
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1 minute ago, Steve Thomas said:
Michael,
JP David Johnston said that between 12:15 and 12:30, Jack Ruby walked up to him and handed him a pass to the Carousel Club. He included a copy of the pass Ruby gave him in his report.
20H315
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1137#relPageId=335&tab=page
Steve Thomas
Thanks Steve.
I am trying to confirm who is who. I think "Johnny" is the garage mechanic or owner. He would be distinct from JP David Johnson, if I am not mistaken.
There seems to be a significant effort to document JR's presence at the police station at that time. The only reason I have yet found for that would be to counter Officer Olsen's claim to the contrary; that Ruby was at the garage adjacent to the (closed) Carousel Lounge. Those efforts seem to draw attention to themselves.
I have a lot of bases to cover while looking into this. The only motivation to do so is scepticism. All one has to do is say that Olsen's testimony has been proven incorrect in light of other evidence.
Thanks again.
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I am not seeing "Johnny" Johnson's testimony.
Johns Thomas L. Original Report Agent, U.S. Secret Service Johnson, C. W. Shaw preliminary hearing testimony District Director of the Immigration and Naturalization Service, New Orleans Johnson, Arnold Samuel WC Testimony Director of Information and Lecture Bureau, Communist Party, U.S.A. Johnson, Arthur Carl WC Testimony Owner of roominghouse in Dallas where Oswald resided. Johnson, Clemon Earl 3/18/64 FBI report Witness at assassination scene. Johnson, Joseph Weldon, Jr. WC Testimony Acquaintance of Jack Ruby Johnson, Mrs. Arthur Carl WC Testimony Wife of A. C. Johnson Johnson, Mrs. Lyndon B. WC Statement Wife of the President of the United States. Johnson, Lyndon B. WC Statement President of the United States Johnson, Marvin WC Testimony Member, Dallas Police Department Johnson, Priscilla Mary Post WC Testimony, ARRB Testimony Newspaper reporter who interviewed Oswald in Russia. Johnson, Speedy WC Testimony Acquaintance of Jack Ruby. Johnston, David L. WC Testimony Justice of the peace, Dallas. Jones, C. M. 11/22/63 Sheriff's report Deputy Sheriff, County of Dallas Jones, Orville Aubrey WC Testimony -
Thanks Alistair, what I am seeing is some weird stuff going on that night at the Carousel and associated garage behind it. Larry Crafard was supposedly on the phone for 4 hours with a girl, unknown to him, while he was at the Carousel between 11PM and three.
What I am getting at is that I will seem very sceptical of any evidence that Ruby was at that press conference. I think it is hugely important that he is not placed at the garage, for some reason. Of course, 55 years later, it doesn't matter much, and we'll never know unless Crafard or one of the Olsen's are still alive and has something new to say.
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Olsen was in a serious car accident on Dec. 7
SPECTER. When did you last talk to Wally Weston?
Mr OLSEN. When I was in the hospital after the car accident.
Mr SPECTER. When did that car accident occur?
Mr OLSEN. December 7.
Mr SPECTER. How long were you in the hospital?Mr OLSEN. Two weeks, two and a half weeks.
Mr SPECTER. What injuries did you sustain in that automobile collision?
Mr OLSEN. I rebroke my leg.
Mr SPECTER. In the same place?
Mr OLSEN. The same place and some more breaks. And I cracked my chest bone.
Mr SPECTER. Indicating your sternum?
Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir. And I broke some ribs.
Mr SPECTER. What hospital were you in?
Mr OLSEN. Methodist. -
Officer Olsen married Kathy Kay...
SPECTER. When were you and Mrs. Kay Olsen married?
Mr OLSEN. I believe it was December. It could have been January.
Mr SPECTER. December of what year?
Mr OLSEN. 1963, or January of 1964.....and they moved to California.
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Thanks Alistair. While reading testimony I have read at least one account of Ruby being alsewhere at the time of the press conference. I'll quote DPD Officer Olsen below. It cought my attention because I thought I had seen several accounts of JR being elsewhere before I started taking note of that discrepancy. I'll re-read to find the other accounts.
Mr SPECTER. Did you go anyplace else?
Mr OLSEN. We went to a garage.
Mr SPECTER. Where was that garage located?
Mr OLSEN. Jackson and Field.
Mr SPECTER. What was the purpose of going to a garage at Jackson and Field?
Mr OLSEN. We knew the man who worked there.
Mr SPECTER. What was his name?
Mr OLSEN. Johnny is all I know him by.
Mr SPECTER. What sort of work did he do at that garage?
Mr OLSEN. He was an attendant.
Mr SPECTER. Why did you want to go see him?
Mr OLSEN. To talk.
Mr SPECTER. For any special purpose?
Mr OLSEN. No, sir.
Mr SPECTER. Do you recollect about what time you arrived at that garage?
Mr OLSEN. Oh, 12, approximately.
Mr SPECTER. Did you see Johnny when you were there?
Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir.
Mr SPECTER. Did you see anybody else while you were at that garage?
Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir.
Mr SPECTER. Who else did you see?
Mr OLSEN. Jack Ruby.
Mr SPECTER. Did you see anybody else besides Johnny and Jack Ruby?
Mr OLSEN. Not that I remember; no.Mr. SPECTER. Now, before seeing Ruby at the garage on that Friday night, when had you seen him most recently before that time?
Mr OLSEN. It could have been a few days or a week.
Mr SPECTER. Do you recall where it was that you saw him prior to this Friday night?Mr OLSEN. Oh, it was probably outside of his club.
Mr SPECTER. Do you recall the specific instance or are you just saying what you think probably occurred?
Mr OLSEN. I am just saying what probably occurred, because I don't remember when I saw him before that.
Mr SPECTER. Do you have any recollection what your conversation was with Mr. Ruby when you saw him prior to this Friday night?
Mr OLSEN. No, sir.
Mr SPECTER. How long did you talk to Mr. Ruby on this Friday night?
Mr OLSEN. Two or three hours.I am now looking to find out who "Johnny" is, and to see if he testified..
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23 minutes ago, David Andrews said:
Is there not film of JR, leaning into the frame at left to correct Henry Wade, as the camera pans away from Wade discussing Oswald's associations?
Yes there is David, thanks for your reply. Also the above photo appears to be a film frame, as I've seen three or 4 shots that are slightly different from each other. Being a film frame may explain why the above shot looks a bit goofy to me. I have not seen that film yet.
Cheers, Mike
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did such a person exist and if so who was it
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
If you know that the head shot came from the stockade fence, then you know that Abe Zapruder could not have not known about that shot.