Michael Clark
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Thread Post 11
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/104-10123-10018.pdf
re Richard Case Nagel
15-10 (?) redacted (as per Post # 16, Bern)
The above and below documents lead me to speculate that 15-18 is Zurich.
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/104-10123-10019.pdf (re Richard Nagell)
15-10 (as per Post # 16, Bern)
15-18.
Similar to above
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/104-10123-10020.pdf
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Thread Post 10
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/157-10008-10211.pdf
Page 5. "Here", presumably the location of the "World Youth Festival" = Helsinki = 14-1
(Also AMWHIP, AMLASH-1)
P. 11. Location Code. 19-1
p. 14. 19-6, 14-6
———————
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/104-10172-10207.pdf
14-6
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Thread Post 9
16 - 2 Guatemala City
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/104-10133-10383.pdf
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16-2 Mexico City
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/104-10063-10007.pdf
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2 minutes ago, David Josephs said:
... Un-footnoted chronology in story form.
Sounds like the author is still alive, and has very busy for 8 ish years on our forum. 😭
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10 minutes ago, David Josephs said:
I've found that many of the page counts are wrong...
And to that extent.. 200 page docs are 3....
Thanks David, I was just double-checking myself. This morning, that PDF link went to an archives link that said" Document not found", and I tried it several times and in different forms. It definitely changed since this morning. Also, I have found that page counts on these entries to be accurate, until now. To be sure, those links bring me to the same document that you posted (thanks again) which is 11 pages.
In fact, I still have a "page not found" window open from this morning, with that URL in the Navigation pane. I took a screen shot.
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6 hours ago, Paz Marverde said:
Hi Paz, that first link is a very long set of documents. Can you tell us anything about it or draw our attention to anything in that document?
****edit.. the three links amount to over 700 pages. Can your help us focus as we read them?
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7 hours ago, David Josephs said:
Here you go Mike....
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/157-10008-10145.pdf
The way you have it here - the doc ID is seen as a phone number....
Thanks David, yet the NARA entry lists the document as running 191 pages.
(My apologies for my copy-pastes of snippets of these PDF's. I have no idea how they look on anything other than my iPad) here is left side of that entry, cut off in my previous post, indicating 191 pages. The Black Vault also shows 191 pages in their clickable 3000 + page index.
HON CHURCH, FRANK, CHAIRMAN BLACKHURST, STEVEN DOCUMENTS RE: FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 191 FBI 03/20/2018 Box 466-16 Here is the link to the Archives page, the entry is the third one down as my device resolves the URL.
https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/release?page=1066&sort=asc&order=NARA Release Date
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I want to see a document that is no longer accessible on the archives page, here:
https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/release?page=1066&sort=asc&order=NARA Release Date
I also tried to search "BLACKHURST" on The Black Vault and come-up with nothing.
53303 157-10008-10145 04/26/2018 Redact 03/18/1976
[PDF]PAPER-TEXTUAL DOCUMENT HON CHURCH, FRANK, CHAIRMAN BLACKHURST, STEVEN DOCUMENTS RE: FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE -
15 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:
Google him.
His Facebook is easily found. He has also written a few notes here and there on the net, even apologized for some mistakes in his writings.
I fail to see how someone can come here, literally insult everyone, and then act like he was the one being attacked.
What a waste of time.
He expects us to research who he is???
LOL. Ok.
When he first showed-up, I found a YouTube video of his; highly produced. I chose not to share it at the time. I cannot find it now. I won't characterize it.
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6 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:
What was the primary consequence of the failed Bay of Pigs operation?
The removal of Allen Dulles, Charles Cabell, Richard Bissell -- and the promotion of Richard Helms as chief of clandestine operations.
Why assume that the primary consequences of an intelligence operation were not the intended results?
After all, Rusk and Bundy owed their jobs to Robert Lovett, a long-time Dulles opponent.
Cliff, that is excellent. It is always my approach. I can't say that I am immediately in agreement, after having just now read your argument, but I do appreciate your putting it forth. To be sure it is difficult for me to so quickly move to a conclusion where Kennedy deliberately wanted the operation to fail.
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On 3/13/2018 at 9:02 PM, Paul Brancato said:
Mr. Trejo - you used to talk about Oswald as a far rightist masquerading as a socialist. You have also said that you think that, after the Walker assassination attempt, Walker and Banister took control of Oswald and ultimately tried to get him into Cuba to assassinate Castro. Do you still stand behind these points?
I'm not sure why you and Jason chose to ignore my post on this thread about Souetre in New Orleans, and about links between Banister and OAS. Garrison surely would not have ignored this kind of evidence if it had come his way, especially considering that it was Clay Shaw that he took to court.
On 3/14/2018 at 12:41 AM, Paul Brancato said:Maybe Trejo will respond to my post on this thread about his stated views that Oswald was a secret right wing radical working with Walker.
Not sure why I bother to chime in here, since you both ignore my questions and statements.
On 3/14/2018 at 9:18 AM, Paul Trejo said:Paul B.,
I don't like it when people put words into my mouth. Nobody does.
I never, ever stated that Lee Harvey Oswald was working with General Walker. Never.
I always stated that Lee Harvey Oswald tried to kill General Walker. Always.
Get it right, Brancato. This is why I ignore your questions and statements; you're sloppy when it comes to my position.
Sincerely,
--Paul TrejoOn 3/14/2018 at 10:36 AM, Paul Brancato said:Paul Trejo - how dishonest of you. To be more accurate, something your response fails to do, you stated many times on this forum that Walker and Banister took control of Oswald after he tried to kill Walker, that they sent him to New Orleans, and subsequently to Mexico with Cuba and killing Castro as his ultimate task. You also stated many times that it was obvious to you that Oswald was a fake socialist, a right wing radical.
Yup, Paul Trejo tries to dodge, weave, and worse. Paul Trejo's fiction is that Bannister and David Phillips wanted Oswald to kill Castro, and sent him to Mexico City to get an "instant visa" to Cuba, with his rifle in his duffle bag, to try and shoot Castro.
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On 3/14/2018 at 12:34 AM, Jason Ward said:
Hi Paul,
General Walker's initial explanation of Oswald is that he is a commie, part of the dangerous cell of Dallas commies. This is early 1964 and he makes this claim in one of his radio broadcasts. By the summer of 1964, Walker's story has changed. Now Walker says Oswald is in a CIA plot along with Ruby. Walker basically adopts something of the CIA-did-it conspiracy theory Garrison began which lives on today.
Why the change in Walker's public rendition of Oswald from commie to CIA?
Jason
Repeating Jason's remark: "...Walker basically adopts something of the CIA-did-it conspiracy theory Garrison began which lives on today.."
........................
Jason, How could Walker be adopting, in the Summer of 1964, a Garrison theory that did not crop--up until years later?
That is quite a theory, Jason. It requires an ability to look into the future. I understand that you want to credit Walker with capabilities on which few others are willing to bet their credibility, but I think that is going too far.
If I thought that this thread was an open debate, and I had not been placed on ignore by you and Paul Trejo, I would have worded this differently, but, such as things are, rhetorical devices are necessary.
Cheers
Michael
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3 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:
With Dorothy Kilgallen....
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4 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:
Two Documents by Leonard McCoy On Nosenko
1978 8 page Cronology of an Effort to Inspire Objective Review of the Nosenko Case
http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/2018/104-10095-10126.pdf
1965 58 page conclusion that Nosenko was a true defector
http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/2018/104-10095-10151.pdf
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Two Documents by Leonard McCoy On Nosenko
1978 8 page Cronology of an Effort to Inspire Objective Review of the Nosenko Case
http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/2018/104-10095-10126.pdf
1965 58 page conclusion that Nosenko was a true defector
http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/2018/104-10095-10151.pdf
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8 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:
What "others have concluded" is that we know NEXT TO NOTHING about Oswald's time and associations between clearing British customs in Southampton until his arrival in Helsinki.
So what part of "what others have concluded" does this conflict with?
Yup, Jason inserts a mythical epidemic of Conspitacy-Theory-itis, at every turn, and where none exists.
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Was Bagely a sadistic, myopic torturer? His later claims about Nosenko are very likely clouded by that part of human nature which demands that we justify what we have done in order to absolve ourselves of guilt. He was also likely incompetent and dangerously-so.
From the recent document release.
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32359254.pdf
Italics are mine...
TOP SECRET
13 October 1970
MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD
Subject: BAGELY, Tennant, Harrington
#386 38
1) On Wednesday, 7 October 1970 I briefed Colonel L. K. White, Executive Director-Controller on certain reservations I have concerning the proposed promotion of Bagely to a supergrade position.
2) I was very careful to explain to Colonel White at the outset that my reservations had nothing whatsoever to do with Bagely's security status. I explained that it was my conviction that Bagely was almost exclusively responsible for the manner in which the Nosenko case had been handled by our SR division. I said I considered that Bagely lacked objectivity and that he had displayed extremely poor judgment over a two year period in the handling of this case. Specifically as one example of Bagely's extreme prejudice I pointed out that the SR division had neglected to follow up several leads provided by Nosenko which subsequently had been followed up by this office (Bruce Solie) and that this lead us to individuals who have confessed their recruitment and use by the Soviets over an extensive period of time.
3) I explained further that Bagely displayed extremely poor judgment in the actions he took during that time that Nosenko was incarcerated at ISOLATION. On many occasions, as the individual responsible for Nosenko's care, I refuse to condone Bagely's instructions to my people who are guarding him. In one instance Bagely insisted that Nosenko's food ration be reduced to black bread and water three times daily. After I had briefed Colonel White, he indicated that he would refresh the Director's memory on Bagely's role in the Nosenko case at the time he reviews supergrade promotions.
Howard J. Osborn
Director of Security
-------------------
And
Two Documents by Leonard McCoy On Nosenko
1978 8 page Cronology of an Effort to Inspire Objective Review of the Nosenko Case
http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/2018/104-10095-10126.pdf
1965 58 page conclusion that Nosenko was a true defector
http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/2018/104-10095-10151.pdf
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Bagely was likely a sadistic, myopic torturer. His later claims about Nosenko are very likely clouded by that part of human nature which demands that we justify what we have done in order to absolve ourselves of guilt. He was also likely incompetent and dangerously-so.
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32359254.pdf
Italics are mine...
TOP SECRET
13 October 1970
MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD
Subject: BAGELY, Tennant, Harrington
#386 38
1) On Wednesday, 7 October 1970 I briefed Colonel L. K. White, Executive Director-Controller on certain reservations I have concerning the proposed promotion of Bagely to a supergrade position.
2) I was very careful to explain to Colonel White at the outset that my reservations had nothing whatsoever to do with Bagely's security status. I explained that it was my conviction that Bagely was almost exclusively responsible for the manner in which the Nosenko case had been handled by our SR division. I said I considered that Bagely lacked objectivity and that he had displayed extremely poor judgment over a two year period in the handling of this case. Specifically as one example of Bagely's extreme prejudice I pointed out that the SR division had neglected to follow up several leads provided by Nosenko which subsequently had been followed up by this office (Bruce Solie) and that this lead us to individuals who have confessed their recruitment and use by the Soviets over an extensive period of time.
3) I explained further that Bagely displayed extremely poor judgment in the actions he took during that time that Nosenko was incarcerated at ISOLATION. On many occasions, as the individual responsible for Nosenko's care, I refuse to condone Bagely's instructions to my people who are guarding him. In one instance Bagely insisted that Nosenko's food ration be reduced to black bread and water three times daily. After I had briefed Colonel White, he indicated that he would refresh the Director's memory on Bagely's role in the Nosenko case at the time he reviews supergrade promotions.
Howard J. Osborn
Director of Security
--------------------------
And
Two Documents by Leonard McCoy On Nosenko
1978 8 page Cronology of an Effort to Inspire Objective Review of the Nosenko Case
http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/2018/104-10095-10126.pdf
1965 58 page conclusion that Nosenko was a true defector
http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/2018/104-10095-10151.pdf
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Bagely was likely a sadistic, myopic torturer. His later claims about Nosenko are very likely clouded by that part of human nature which demands that we justify what we have done in order to absolve ourselves of guilt. He was also likely incompetent and dangerously-so.
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32359254.pdf
Italics are mine...
TOP SECRET
13 October 1970
MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD
Subject: BAGELY, Tennant, Harrington
#386 38
1) On Wednesday, 7 October 1970 I briefed Colonel L. K. White, Executive Director-Controller on certain reservations I have concerning the proposed promotion of Bagely to a supergrade position.
2) I was very careful to explain to Colonel White at the outset that my reservations had nothing whatsoever to do with Bagely's security status. I explained that it was my conviction that Bagely was almost exclusively responsible for the manner in which the Nosenko case had been handled by our SR division. I said I considered that Bagely lacked objectivity and that he had displayed extremely poor judgment over a two year period in the handling of this case. Specifically as one example of Bagely's extreme prejudice I pointed out that the SR division had neglected to follow up several leads provided by Nosenko which subsequently had been followed up by this office (Bruce Solie) and that this lead us to individuals who have confessed their recruitment and use by the Soviets over an extensive period of time.
3) I explained further that Bagely displayed extremely poor judgment in the actions he took during that time that Nosenko was incarcerated at ISOLATION. On many occasions, as the individual responsible for Nosenko's care, I refuse to condone Bagely's instructions to my people who are guarding him. In one instance Bagely insisted that Nosenko's food ration be reduced to black bread and water three times daily. After I had briefed Colonel White, he indicated that he would refresh the Director's memory on Bagely's role in the Nosenko case at the time he reviews supergrade promotions.
Howard J. Osborn
Director of Security
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8 hours ago, Michael Clark said:
Bagely was likely a sadistic, myopic torturer. His later claims about Nosenko are very likely clouded by that part of human nature which demands that we justify what we have done in order to absolve ourselves of guilt. He was also likely incompetent and dangerously-so.
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32359254.pdf
Italics are mine...
TOP SECRET
13 October 1970
MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD
Subject: BAGELY, Tennant, Harrington
#386 38
1) On Wednesday, 7 October 1970 I briefed Colonel L. K. White, Executive Director-Controller on certain reservations I have concerning the proposed promotion of Bagely to a supergrade position.
2) I was very careful to explain to Colonel White at the outset that my reservations had nothing whatsoever to do with Bagely's security status. I explained that it was my conviction that Bagely was almost exclusively responsible for the manner in which the Nosenko case had been handled by our SR division. I said I considered that Bagely lacked objectivity and that he had displayed extremely poor judgment over a two year period in the handling of this case. Specifically as one example of Bagely's extreme prejudice I pointed out that the SR division had neglected to follow up several leads provided by Nosenko which subsequently had been followed up by this office (Bruce Solie) and that this lead us to individuals who have confessed their recruitment and use by the Soviets over an extensive period of time.
3) I explained further that Bagely displayed extremely poor judgment in the actions he took during that time that Nosenko was incarcerated at ISOLATION. On many occasions, as the individual responsible for Nosenko's care, I refuse to condone Bagely's instructions to my people who are guarding him. In one instance Bagely insisted that Nosenko's food ration be reduced to black bread and water three times daily. After I had briefed Colonel White, he indicated that he would refresh the Director's memory on Bagely's role in the Nosenko case at the time he reviews supergrade promotions.
Howard J. Osborn
Director of Security
I should have noted that the above was part of the recent document release.
------------------------
And
Two Documents by Leonard McCoy On Nosenko
1978 8 page Cronology of an Effort to Inspire Objective Review of the Nosenko Case
http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/2018/104-10095-10126.pdf
1965 58 page conclusion that Nosenko was a true defector
http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/2018/104-10095-10151.pdf
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3 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:
Yeah, Michael, I got that. .....
............
........so why don't you take that Gas-Ex in the meantime, Michael?
Because in my humble opinion, you're really starting to stink the place up.
-- T.G.
Noted and reported...
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Bagely was likely a sadistic, myopic torturer. His later claims about Nosenko are very likely clouded by that part of human nature which demands that we justify what we have done in order to absolve ourselves of guilt. He was also likely incompetent and dangerously-so.
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32359254.pdf
Italics are mine...
TOP SECRET
13 October 1970
MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD
Subject: BAGELY, Tennant, Harrington
#386 38
1) On Wednesday, 7 October 1970 I briefed Colonel L. K. White, Executive Director-Controller on certain reservations I have concerning the proposed promotion of subject to a supergrade position.
2) I was very careful to explain to Colonel White at the outset that my reservations had nothing whatsoever to do with Bagely's security status. I explained that it was my conviction that Bagely was almost exclusively responsible for the manner in which the Nosenko case had been handled by our SR division. I said I considered that Bagely lacked objectivity and that he had displayed extremely poor judgment over a two year period in the handling of this case. Specifically as one example of Bagely's extreme prejudice I pointed out that the SR division had neglected to follow up several leads provided by Nosenko which subsequently had been followed up by this office (Bruce Solie) and that this lead us to individuals who have confessed their recruitment and use by the Soviets over an extensive period of time.
3) I explained further that Bagely displayed extremely poor judgment in the actions he took during that time that Nosenko was incarcerated at ISOLATION. On many occasions, as the individual responsible for Nosenko's care, I refuse to condone Bagely's instructions to my people who are guarding him. In one instance Bagely insisted that Nosenko's food ration be reduced to black bread and water three times daily. After I had briefed Colonel White, he indicated that he would refresh the Director's memory on Bagely's role in the Nosenko case at the time he reviews supergrade promotions.
Howard J. Osborn
Director of Security
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28 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:
Michael,
It's likely that you, sir, are full of beans.
Warning: almost a sentence fragment coming up:
As are (or were, if deceased) Harrington, Leonard McCoy, John Hart, Bruce Solie, and Cleveland Cram, et al.
Why don't you take some Gas-Ex and then read Bagley's Spy Wars, or at least his 35-page PDF Ghosts of the Spy Wars.
Paul Brancato finally read the latter, and almost kinda thanked me for having suggested it to him, iirc.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08850607.2014.962362
Totally blew me away.
-- T.G.
I reported this post to the moderators. If everyone acted like you we would not have a forum.
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2 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:
Michael,
It's likely that you, sir, are full of beans.
Warning: almost a sentence fragment coming up:
As are (or were, if deceased) Harrington, Leonard McCoy, John Hart, Bruce Solie, and Cleveland Cram, et al.
Why don't you take some Gas-Ex and then read Bagley's Spy Wars, or at least his 35-page PDF Ghosts of the Spy Wars.
Paul Brancato finally read the latter, and almost kinda thanked me for having suggested it to him, iirc.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08850607.2014.962362
Totally blew me away.
-- T.G.
TOP SECRET
13 October 1970
MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD
Subject: BAGELY, Tennant, Harrington
#386 38
1) On Wednesday, 7 October 1970 I briefed Colonel L. K. White, Executive Director-Controller on certain reservations I have concerning the proposed promotion of subject to a supergrade position.
2) I was very careful to explain to Colonel White at the outset that my reservations had nothing whatsoever to do with Bagely's security status. I explained that it was my conviction that Bagely was almost exclusively responsible for the manner in which the Nosenko case had been handled by our SR division. I said I considered that Bagely lacked objectivity and that he had displayed extremely poor judgment over a two year period in the handling of this case. Specifically as one example of Bagely's extreme prejudice I pointed out that the SR division had neglected to follow up several leads provided by Nosenko which subsequently had been followed up by this office (Bruce Solie) and that this lead us to individuals who have confess their recruitment and use by the Soviets over an extensive period of time.
3) I explained further that Bagely displayed extremely poor judgment in the actions he took during that time that the Nosenko was incarcerated at ISOLATION. On many occasions, as the individual responsible for Nosenko's care, I refuse to condone subjects instructions to my people who are guarding him. In one instance Bagely insisted that and Nosenko's food ration be reduced to black bread and water three times daily. After I had briefed Colonel White, he indicated that he would refresh the Director's memory on Bagely's role in the Nosenko case at the time he reviews supergrade promotions.
Howard J. Osborn
Director of Security
CIA Location codes research
in JFK Research
Posted · Edited by Michael Clark
Thread Post 12
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/104-10162-10030.pdf
21-20
AMBIDDY-1