John Butler

14 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

Amos Euins is right there in Bell, sitting on the wall on the WEST side of the fountain. Apparently, he forgot exactly where he was sitting and repeatedly told people the wrong location.

I couldn't find Amos Euins in Bell or any other film pre-shooting.  Amos Euins was not sitting on the retaining wall at the west end of the reflecting pool.

The best shot of the person there is in John Martin and matches Bell:

Amos looked like this on the day.  He had on a jacket and no hat:

and clearer,

He has different clothing than the man sitting on the western part of the retaining wall.  Zapruder doesn't show this man and Dorman does but very blurry.

1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:

I'm starting a major check on Earl Rose.  Thanks!

Jim,

I will redo what I have said on the forum earlier and email a pdf to you with my analysis.

4 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Good points, John!  Let’s chew on some more facts that, like the missing teeth, DID happen in this case.  So….

Two Hidell I.D. cards were “found” by Capt. Westbrook and Ken Croy in an Oswald wallet at the Tippit murder site (10th and Patton).  When were these IDs from the 10th and Patton wallet moved to the other Oswald wallet taken from Lee HARVEY Oswald soon after his arrest?  Let’s call this the arrest wallet.

Around 2 pm Friday, DPD officer Paul Bentley removed Oswald’s wallet from his pants pocket while the men were riding in Capt. Westbrook’s car.  Bentley eventually gave the wallet to Lt. Marrion Baker, who left it on a table in the Homicide and Robbery interrogation room.  

The FBI listed twelve items in the arrest wallet, but three different photos were listed as item #11, and so there were actually a total of 14 items.

The two Hidell IDs were not listed by the FBI at that time, nor were they photographed that afternoon.  A Fair Play for Cuba card found in the arrest wallet was signed by A.J. Hidell, but the two Hidell IDs simply were not there.

WESTBROOK AND CROY

When were the Hidell IDs belatedly added to the alleged contents of Oswald’s wallet?  Who did it?
Read John A’s answers by reading the following article, starting about two-thirds of the way down the page:

WESTBROOK AND CROY

Jim,

Fascinating stuff.  I have tried to avoid the Tippit murder basically because I didn't know that much about it.  However, I got involved with the Tippit autopsy.  Guess who would have done the Kennedy autopsy (if his body wasn't kidnapped and taken to Washington), the Tippit autopsy, and the Harvey Oswald autopsy?

Our Man in Dallas, Earl Rose.  Why would he have done all 3?  Wasn't there anyone else in Dallas capable of doing autopsies?  Was he the county coroner?  The only person available?  Would being available to do all 3 indicate knowledge beforehand or someone knowing the system could use this in pre-planning?

The reason I ask is due to what he did in the Tippit autopsy.  I responded to a David Josephs comment some time back by saying essentially something was wrong with the autopsy.

I went on to indicate there was fraud in the autopsy and charged Dr. Earl Rose with falsifying information on the head shot wound in the autopsy. 

Here's what bothers me.  No one came out and called me a XXXX or a fool for saying such a thing.  No one said that's just speculation with no proof.  No one contested my analysis.  A great silence was heard.  One person, David Andrews made a comment.

I would think this would be of big news to the research community.  Again, the great silence.  So, I don't know how to respond to this hence this gripe.

3 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

To say otherwise would have ruined him as a viable candidate for the presidency.

He "had" to say that.

Thanks Joe,

I agree on that plus other things that he had to be quiet on.

5 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

John seems confused. Again, it is up to him to prove his case. He needs to do more than come up with speculative assertions based on imaginary differences between earlobes in poor-quality photographs.

Did you even read what I said?  I talked about teeth and one having a full set of upper teeth and the other missing upper teeth.  Harvey had all of his teeth when he went into the Marine Corps.  Lee lost some of his in a high school fight about the 9th grade at 14 or 15.

The photos are not poor quality.  You can clearly see missing teeth for Lee and Harvey having a full set when they were teenagers.

Go back and read what I said rather than making up things.  I can see why you are doing that.  You simply have no facts to counter what I have said.

This is all I will have to say about this.

I believe Bobby Kennedy said he supported the Warren Commission conclusions up the day he died.  Can anyone explain that?

On 1/2/2022 at 5:59 PM, Craig Carvalho said:

There is however some evidence to suggest that someone may have impersonated the future alleged assassin.

The evidence is there in plain sight.  Just take a detailed look at the passport application photo.  JB and JC are going to love this.

David Josephs has done good work on this.  Read up on what he had to say.

This is a better look at the passport app photo:

This is the passport photo on the right (left hand) and a contrast heightened photo on the left (right hand).  There are two things to notice.  Number 1 is that this is an altered photo in two ways.  First off, a Harvey face mask is applied to whoever this is under it.  I always suspect this is actually Kerry Thornley (The blond haired Oswald.  Thornley has a round head and Oswald doesn't).  The face mask is seen better in the contrasted photo with a red arrow pointing to it.

The second alteration is when someone cut this photo out from an original and they didn't cut out all of the left shoulder of the Oswald figure.  Downward pointing arrow.  So, Oswald appears to be a cripple with a missing arm. 

This immediately tells you something is not right in the Oswald in Mexico story.  And, that's just what it is, a story. 

54 minutes ago, James R Gordon said:

You are right George,

The membership have indeed reached  the goal. Indeed the membership have surpassed the the one-year target. At present the donations are approaching the two-year target.

Maybe now would be a good time to pause. We have enough money to get us to around April 2024.

James.

Thanks for staying on and keeping the Forum going.  It is very much appreciated.

3 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

John,

Go to the top of the page and within the blue banner running across the entire page top, click on the "store" link.

Or, you can rest your cursor on that same "store" link and just below it, the "donations" link will appear as a drop down option.

Thanks Chris,

It took a while for that to sink into my head due to mind numbness.  I did get the donation in to James.  

Just bought a new computer.  It is getting harder and harder to set one up.  I have way too many files, programs, and backups with extra disk drives.  Instead of a couple hours as in the old days it's now a couple of days.    

Thanks for your help folks,

I am still not getting anywhere.  I press on any of James' buttons in the thread and I end up in Photobucket at jamesg27's library. 

This doesn't look right.  Is this the right place?  Where am I going wrong?   

11 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

It isn't up to Jonathan or anyone else to disprove John Butler's wild speculations about face masks and doctored photos.

JB,

I see you are in the same boat as Jonathan.  Factless.  Neither of you can disprove what I am saying.  It isn't up to me to disprove what I am saying.  It isn't up to me to dispute baseless charges.

Wild speculations?  Baseless charges?  How about wild and baseless accusations?    

40 minutes ago, Ty Carpenter said:

James,

I just sent in a $5 test donation. Please confirm with a reply to this message that you have received it. 

Edit: I have received a verification email from the Ed Forum that my payment has been received. Please confirm things are working on your end as well.

 

I must be missing something.  I don't have a clue how to donate.  I have before with no problems.  When I check on the link I end up in James photos.

Help, if you can. 

5 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

This is terrible news, James.  Would a major round of user contributions help you to change your mind?

If this is the end, thank you so much for all you have done!

+2

JC,

Do you remember that old saying "Where's the beef?".  Instead of making bold, declaratory statements, show proof that what I am saying is wrong.  Instead of "nonsense", "willy nilly" and other descriptions where is your proof that I am wrong?

You declare that there never was a Harvey Oswald.  John Armstrong has assembled countless facts in Harvey and Lee concerning two Oswalds.  These are facts not declaratory statements.  

Never was a Harvey Oswald?  Sometime back I was reading through Robert Groden's book The Search For Lee Harvey Oswald and I came across a good copy of the Civil Air Patrol photo when Lee Oswald was a teenager.  The photo also has David Ferrie, who Lee never knew, ha ha, in it as one of the instructors.

Before this photo was taken Lee Oswald was in a fight and lost at least one or possibly two teeth in the upper tooth row.  It was a lateral incisor and possibly a canine.  This is visible in that photo through magnification.  Lee lost these teeth and Harvey retained his. 

There is just a few years difference between Harvey, age 17, and Lee, possibly 14 or 15.  Lee is younger than Harvey in the pics.  Lee, on the left lost those teeth in a fight.

Another:

And, another:

The man know as Harvey Oswald never lost any of his upper front teeth (incisors).

John Armstrong has assembled countless facts and figures in Harvey and Lee.  Others have contributed many more.  

I don't need any of it to know there was a Harvey and Lee.  This is not to disparage John Armstrong or anyone else.  He has done something wonderful.

All I need is to look at these photos and know Lee Harvey Oswald was two different people.  It is a beginning to understand the rest.

17 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

But he also, when asked, always says he doesn’t trust the photo evidence any more than other pieces of evidence in this case.

Almost everything concerning Lee Oswald has been converted into Harvey Oswald.  The favored methods are face masks, composite photos, low resolution photos, shadowed features, and more.

So, it is hard to say who's who.  I am losing my facial recognition skills according to the wife.  She usually beats me in identifying actors and actresses from by gone eras.  That's why I adopted the Harvey Oswald ID characteristics from the DPS photo of Harvey to help identify others.  On the composite split pics on the cover of Harvey and Lee there is not enough characteristics to say positively this is Harvey and this is Lee.    

As you can see from this blowup, it is easy to id alterations such as the difference in the size of the eyes and nostrils.  The left side of the nose is smaller, and that alteration is somewhat helped by the shadow covering it.   The left ear of Harvey has been mirrored and placed as a right ear (or maybe the whole half of the face, I can't tell).  The right (left hand side) side of the pic doesn't quite look like Harvey.  The left (right hand side) has Harvey's hair pattern of a comb over.  

So, we may be looking not at half photos, but quarter photos (or some smaller parts put together).  Most people looking at this would accept it as a photo of Lee Harvey Oswald.  I don't.

John Armstrong may be correct, but I still have reservations.     

3 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Thanks, John.  Interesting observations.

I’m pretty sure Jack White believed the composite image of “Lee Harvey Oswald” was on the Department of Defense card given to Lee HARVEY Oswald in 1959.

Richard Case Nagell carried a copy of the same card but with a slightly different picture.  Note the tie in the fuzzy mug shot.

Jack designed the cover for H&L, illustrating what he believed was the composite image on the DOD card.

If memory serves (I haven’t double checked) there is an almost identical mug shot of our boy(s) but wearing a tie. Almost everything about “Lee Harvey Oswald” is weird.

Thanks Jim

On the Harvey and Lee book cover, whose who?  If the right (left hand) half pic is Harvey, and I believe that to be true.  Who is the left (right hand) pic?  Doesn't look like a Lee photo.  Lee's features are courser.  I have a notion of a 3rd Oswald.  No real proof for it except the way that guy looks.  And, the photo in Russia of Lee and Marina posing on a bridge? I think.  It is because of the shortness of that Oswald.  Definitely not 5'11" or 5'9".  Some folks in Russia described Oswald as shorter than the figures above.

It doesn't make sense to have just two operatives.  You (being OSS guys in the CIA) would have a vast resource of refugee children after WW2 to select from.  Why not the more the merrier?  If Oswald is in 3 places that would be more difficult to figure out what they are doing.  I don't know of any incidents where there would be 3 Oswalds at once so it limits the notion considerably.  Perhaps, even doing away with it.  

Toni said he rounded the corner and his head blew up.

As far as I know Bell doesn't show Amos Euins before or during the JFKA.  Afterwards there are plenty of photos of Amos. I suspect he is somewhere in the neighborhood but not on camera.  Dorman is not good enough to determine if Amos is just back a little from this scene.  Hughes is too distant.  Almost all of the films have problems in front of the Court Records Building.  Anything on the west side Houston would not be seen. 

5 hours ago, David Boylan said:

Dealey Plaza UK presentation by Greg.

 

 

I have been listening to this and it is very, very interesting.  Glad to hear Bart Kamp say the figures in Dilliard are pasted into the photo.  I Always thought that.  I will finnish later after a few brief comments.  Howard Brennan's position in front of the TSBD is an issue of non-importance.  He simply could have turned slightly to keep up with the motorcade.  

I have a problem with finding Amos Euins in Dealey Plaza before and during the JFKA.  The two best sources are Dorman and Zapruder.  After the JFKA there are many photos of Amos.

I don't see Amos in these two films.  He has been identified here as:

This is a Bell frame I believe.  If you have a hard time seeing the white arrow, I put a large red arrow to identify the person.  That person is not Amos Euins.  Euins had a jacket, and dark trousers or blue jeans on that day.  Person pointed to by the arrows did not have a jacket on that day.  He has a pink shirt and light colored trousers.  You can see these light trousers through the retaining wall. 

This can be seen in Dorman and Zapruder with this individual is standing in the same place.  Notice in the above Bell frame that the person in pink is standing near a lady with a blue raincoat.  You can see the same thing in Dorman and Zapruder below.  He is a white teenager rather than a black teenager.

Nowhere in Dorman or Zapruder can I find a 15 year-old black teenager.  He is not in Bell either.  I can't find him in Hughes either.  Where is he?

Amos Euins is not a credible witness based on whether the shooter was a bald white guy or bald black quy.  I believe his step-father or father said you can't believe anything that boy says.  Where is he in Dealey Plaza at the time of the JFKA?

1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:

John,

I can't remember if we've talked about this before, but below is a photo the I think shows LEE Harvey Oswald in Ruby's Carousel Club.  The inset photo is from Lee HARVEY Oswald's 1959 passport, which John A. always believed had a photo of LEE.  Note the hair.  Could this be a toupee, or photo editing?

Jim,

I believe that is another person whose name escapes me at the moment.  Larry Crawford??  Many people have thought that was Lee Oswald, but over time come to realize that is another person who worked for Jack Rubly.  This was a young man that fled Dallas after the JFKA.

We also have the infamous Tammi True.  IMO, she is the real Babushka Lady.  

As far as the photo of "Oswald" we have two versions in Oswald there.  Both Harvey and Lee.  If I am remembering correctly this was from Jack White who though that this was an altered photo composite.

This was a passport photo.  Below is a comparison to Harvey at the DPS:

These two pics are connected by the left ear characteristics of a double bend in the rim.   This indicates the left ear of the passport photo is Harvey.  Jack thought this passport photo was a combination of the two split down the middle and connected.  This was so either one could use the same passport.

I find this to be a good possibility since there are other features amiss.  The passport person's right eye is larger than the left.  The left nostril is smaller than the right.  The lips don't quite match.  But, this is arguable.  The passport person lacks the slight fold at the bottom of Harvey's chin. The neckline on each side is not the same.  The hair and hairline is definitely not the same as in the hunter photo or the DPS photo.

Larry Crafard instead of Crawford.  It's the old school saying "learn it wrong, it stays wrong".

This maybe a bit of overkill:

This photo is Harvey Oswald.  The man who was shot at the Dallas Police Station.  He has just turned 17 years old here.  He looks a bit older than just turned 17 here.

But, all the characteristics fit.  Ear.  Eyes.  Nose.  Chin, except the slight fold which might be there.  Neckline, and Hairline.

This is Harvey at 17 on entry into the military.  He has a GI haircut and is being measured for height.  5'9".  Inductees are lined up in front of a chart like this with their back and head touching the chart for a fair representation of their height. 

Harvey was 5'9".  Any other measurement indicates a different Oswald. 

On 12/29/2021 at 4:15 PM, Jon Pickering said:

Got it - we should disregard Oswald's thwarted attempt to contact military intelligence on the night of the assassination. 

Anything else we should remain blind to? 

Correct phone numbers in NC linked to John Hurt.  Did the lady just make those up?

2 hours ago, David Andrews said:

If the bullet traveled "slightly upward, [and] backward and left" [my insertion], that track would better correspond to a contact wound fired into a face-up skull.  But a shot to Tippit's right side would be better made by a right-handed person if he were face down.  Angle of entry had to be a factor for the rearward travel either way. (If face-down, the gunman was lucky the bullet didn't exit the back of the skull and hit him.) 

Skip this.

Why?  This editor has problems posting multiple quotes.

David,

The Rose autopsy of Officer Tippit indicates there were 5 gunshot wounds rather than 4.  The problem with this is there is not 5 entrance wounds.  We see only 4 in the autopsy photos.

What we see here is the forehead area wound of Tippit.  The wound that has been questioned.  On the montage above I have labeled this No. 1.  No. 2 is a crease or fold in the neck of Tippit below his chin.  This area is extremely dark and shows up that way in all photos.  I did think at one time this was important because it could be cosmetic surgery disguising a wound of entrance.  But, It could simply be a fold in his neck skin and of no importance for looking for an extra gunshot wound.  The angle from that fold to Tippit's brainstem seems extreme for the autopsy description.  So, I discount that altogether as a disguised wound.  

That leaves someone sticking a gun in Tippit's mouth and firing it.  The wound would be hidden and the angle appears to be right for the autopsy description.  The bullet did bounce once off the skull bone in the skull according to Rose.  This indicates a low velocity weapon.  A .38 Special is capable of penetrating the skull and exiting the skull.  I looked that up on the internet.  The .38 Special is a stronger round so I think that is correct.  Although, I do have doubts.

The cranial fossae, front, middle, and rear are the bones that are at the bottom of the skull and hold the brain into the skull.  Rose clearly states that "it" entered the right middle cranial fossa.  Two things are important here.  "It" obviously refers to the bullet or wound track of the bullet.  And, the right middle cranial fossa is at the bottom of the skull and not up around the eye socket. 

"If the bullet traveled "slightly upward, [and] backward and left" [my insertion], that track would better correspond to a contact wound fired into a face-up skull.  But a shot to Tippit's right side would be better made by a right-handed person if he were face down.  Angle of entry had to be a factor for the rearward travel either way. (If face-down, the gunman was lucky the bullet didn't exit the back of the skull and hit him."

I consideread at one point a ricochet from the visible wound at the right side of the skull to the front part or left side of the skull to the rear.  But, sticking with the old Monk the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

Rose was corrupt.  He gave the Dallas Police what they wanted.  And, this was back upped by the FBI in a report of 11-29-63 in which they have Dr. Liquori describing the head wound that he didn't mention earlier. on 11-22-63.  

The biggest problem here is that someone, maybe Rose and co., could have shot Tippet in the head postmortem.  There is slight but, relevant information to perhaps suggest this. 

David,

Could be.  The center shot that hit the brass button would be like being hit with a baseball bat full swing.  It could have twisted or distorted Tippit's body so that the other two shots were not center mass.  I haven't studied these in the autopsy report.  What is more interesting to me is the shot to Tippit's forehead area.  This shot is not in the right temple as described.  Earl Rose knew better.  And, if he didn't then, he should never have been given a medical certificate.  This is a wound to an area of the head known as the Sphenoid Bone jus to the right of the eye socket.  The Temporal Bone/Temporal Lobe area of the skull and brain are around the ear and further to the right of the Sphenoid.

Earl Rose was corrupt and falsified the autopsy findings.  He gave an autopsy report that fit the crime of someone executing Officer Tippit, or at least the impression of that since no one reads autopsy reports in full, if a brief, clear-cut answer is provided up front.

Having said that, I think folks are having a hard time coming to a conclusion like that, or understanding, or believing such.  It is a radical view of the autopsy report.  Let me say here I am not saying this.  The autopsy report is saying that. 

I am going to go back over that and see if I can make what I understand clearer on what Earl Rose actually said.  He gave two different descriptions of the head shot wound of Officer Tippit.  Only one of which is true.

The Tippit head shot has been called into question.  David Joseph's first did this with this thread in 2102.  He noted how does one get damage to the back of the head if Officer Tippit was lying face down.  Dr. Liquori described only 3 wounds at Methodist Hospital.  A head wound was not mentioned.  A later Dec. 29, 1963 FBI report has Dr. Liquori describing a head wound.  How creditable was the FBI during this period?  That should have been Rose in that report.  Did the FBI notice that problem?  

That is one grisly film clip if looked at frame by frame.  The first 3 frames show the head moving forward.  In other words, the head movement is in the direction of the bullet.

Must have been a high caliber military round such as 7.63 or 30.06, or the German or Russian equivalent.  The hydrostatic shock is about the same.  Comparing to Kennedy a Mauser is suspect. 

On 12/30/2021 at 7:54 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

The closest was surely Domingo Benavides, who was about 15 feet away.  Benavides testified that the shooter looked like Oswald except for the fact that his hair was cut differently in the back.  

Jim,

I know who it was.  Should I drag out the mystery for a couple of days.  Nah.  It was Gary Olman.  He went back in time and became an Oswald doppelganger.  See the comparison.

Just kidding.  But, it illustrates what Benevides was talking about.  I wasn't able to find any pics of Lee that would show his hair on the nape of the neck.  

I did look at this crop of the civil air photo, but it has Lee with a new haircut and not so relevant.

Judging from this Lee could lack the problem of Harvey's back of the neck hair problem.  But, he appears to have had a haircut which gives no real way to say.

For those critics that argue there was only one Lee Harvey Oswald, check out the missing front teeth.  Harvey, when he was dug up out of his grave, had all of his front teeth.