John Butler
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Posts posted by John Butler
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What's this?
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3 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:
No one is inventing anything here. The point is that you can't have it both ways. You can't say we know the location of the wound based on the witnesses, when many of the witnesses placed it in places no one actually believes, and a number of others accepted the accuracy of the autopsy photos.
There is good agreement in the Parkland staff that the wound was at the back of the head and most said the occipital/parietal. Can't make the top and side out of that. No way. You can show as many phoney pics and drawings as you want.
Too many people have watched that stupid fraud, the Zapruder Film, over the decades. It is the slickest piece of work the real conspirators ever did for the cover up.
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23 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:
How did it weigh more than the average male brain?
I recall back in anthropology days in college brain weight can vary from 1100 to 2000 grams. I don't think Kennedy had his brain weighed prior to the JFKA. So, if 1/3 was missing then you would have from the largest parameter something like 1400 grams left. That might be why that brain weight was chosen.
What I am trying to say is Kennedy's brain weight is a mute issue. Einstein had a brain weight of 1100 grams. Don't hold me to that due to poor memory which is getting worse.
Shape and condition are more important. Any defect visible is more important.
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2 hours ago, David G. Healy said:
what's this pot shot time? It is evidence, yes? In the WC materials. That evidence is open game... And you don't have the reach nor the wherewithal to do anything about it. Lifton did it to ya, Mantik too, now Stone and DiEugenio next.... they all have the reach and the last, the production money, distribution money, PR money, timing, know-how and they know the MARKET(having a good script writer with content knowledge -- timing and pacing. Not to mention, they took on 1964 WCR conclusions evidence in particular CE399, without that the door is wide open to conspiracy...
Tell us you applaud that!
How many witnesses do you need to verify something. 2? Or, maybe 4, or 8? In the case of the rear head wound there are over 40 witnesses at Parkland and others out on the street. Is 40+ not enough? What about 100?
It doesn't matter to some folks once they decide their versions of events is correct. They will even invent things to prove themselves correct.
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7 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:
Jonathan, that is not true.
That debate went on for days on end. I was a part of it and I even went to my local banker for an interview.
Von Pein was here and he even relented on the issue.
What is it with you? Anything related to Armstrong sends you into "I Must defend civilization mode" of attack?
And I will wager that like most of John's critics you have not even read the book.
True. But, that doesn't keep Jonathan from making broad, declamatory statements.
8 hours ago, Jonathan Cohen said:And his supposed "proof" was promptly shredded by other forum members in the same thread.
I've usually a victim of this kind of statement from JC. You're wrong and you know it. Or, something similar.
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3 minutes ago, Chris Davidson said:
Why don't you locate my original posting with the gif above, where I'm pretty sure I described that I attached the Photoshop adjustments in the gif, if it wasn't obvious enough to begin with.
What do you think the "OK, Cancel, Load,Save, Preview" buttons represented?
Maybe if you would show everyone the entire gif I posted, which included the curves dialogue box attached to those buttons, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Chris,
We are not really having a conversation. As far as I am concerned, this is the end of it.
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48 minutes ago, Jake Hammond said:
I personally know two people who have had heart issues now immediately after boosting, I know of ( friends family and friends friends) three people who have died of heart attacks within 48 hours of jabbing and two ( under 50) who have heart attacks but survived ( to be told they were dehydrated and anxious, seriously). Now there are football teams over here calling off games indefinitely because of the number of heart issues footballers are having. There have been 150 incidents of professional players having heart problems in the last 9 months. These are incidents on the pitch, think how many players have come forward to coaches and staff with issues we don't know about. I genuinely mention this because I haven't seen it anywhere else on this thread and there are several very vocal pro boosters on here. Don't exercise hard within the beneficial functioning time of the boost/jab.
Studies seem to suggest that some age groups have a few weeks of increased protection against the super deadly covid, ignoring the massive depletion of T cells which opens you up to other infection of course. . During this period seems to be the danger period for loading your heart. Your heart will be damaged by the spike proteins anyway but the immediate weeks are most dangerous for a proper attack.
Jake,
I didn't know this. Thanks for the info. Of course, those who wish to will discount this as anecdotal information.
My avoidance of the vaccine or government sponsored vaccines goes back to the 1950s when I was in elementary school. I was forced to take polio shots which I would have avoided if I could. Gerald Ford wanted to do another round of polio vaccines or at least he suggested it before the 1976 election. It could be part of the reason Jimmy Carter won in 1976.
Anyway, he was turned down on the new polio vaccine. At the time that got me to thinking that there might have been something wrong with the polio shots we received in the 1950s. Later information confirmed that. By the 1980s there was very few things I thought the government was truthful about. Today, that has changed to questioning everything!
It is a strange journey from believing Lyndon Johnson was the best president ever and who one day stand with the great presidents such as George Washington. Yes, a strange journey when almost everything you knew has flipped into something else.
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1 hour ago, Gerry Simone said:
Thanks for your reply.
I was joking about the Coke but I don't think that's a camera but more like a coffee mug or cup.
I don't rule out a Harvey and Lee (one real, one impostor), however, I believe that's Billy Lovelady by the edge of the doorway (you can faintly see the lines of the plaid shirt - if it's Lee wearing his speckled, reddish brown shirt that he wore that morning, it would appear more as a solid, dark colour from where Altgens is shooting). There are other pics of Lovelady walking moments later with Shelley out front and the shirt matches what we see by the doorway.
Oswald was wearing neither. He wore a reddish, or a reddish brown, solid color shirt. Look at the WC exhibits. Read up on Andrej Stancak's work. Oswald went back to his rented room and changed into that shirt everyone is familiar with. The one he has on at the Texas Theater. Later, Lovelady said he was wearing a short sleeve shirt. Red Stripes if I am recalling correctly. Sure, there are plenty of photos showing that he had a different shirt on other than a short sleeve shirt. This is the shirt he said he had on.
To put that brown striped shirt on Oswald in the Doorway is wrong. To suggest that the shirt Lovelady was wearing is actually the shirt in the photo is also wrong.
Of course, Lovelady might not be telling the truth. If so, what does that say about the rest of what he said? Here is a shot of Lovelady in his matching Altgens 6 Doorway Man shirt from the John Martin film:
The John Martin film was a color film. If you notice this frame then you will see it is an altered black and white photo with some colored and some not. This is not the same shirt we see on Doorway Man. Seeing these broad blocks and black stripes on Doorway Man's shirt is wishful thinking. This is just another example of the countless examples of film editing in Dealey Plaza.
There are other features in Altgens that show that Doorway Man is not Lovelady. One is the abnormal shoulder and arm of Doorway Man.
There was not enough time to do this alteration correctly. It was sent to the AP in New York within an hour or so when someone noticed that Doorway Man was somebody that was not supposed to be there. It had to be altered more so than what it had been.
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10 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:
What are you talking about.
Are you under the impression that the lightened circle, within the shadow area, around PM, is a camera flash?
Do you not understand that it was created by selecting that area and using lightening techniques in Photoshop.
Or, do you actually think the white object near the face is a camera flash?
Neither are a flash. See gif below.
Now, I did say at some point I thought the object near the face might be a camera or a mug or a ??? who knows.
Chris,
Yes. But, now under different circumstances.
I have been saying this for months or longer. This is the first time you've noticed this? If so, you should have spoken up earlier. It is my clear and firm belief PM has a camera and it flashes not only on Elm Street but also in the doorway of the TSBD.
Now, because of your mysterious and ambiguous posts lacking full information or a least a modest explanation I have to go back to acknowledging a maybe yes/maybe no position could be there. Your lighten circles do suggest a camera flash. No mug or coke bottle. Unless you altered the frame then then you can only lighten what is there.
If it is not a camera flash I don't know what it is. It certainly shines to much for a cup or bottle. These are images from you gif without your adjustments.
No big deal. If you say so, then I won't repeat what I have said again. This is still enough to say there was a camera and a flash. The object is too bright for a mug or bottle.
The basic storyline is still the same. This is sufficient evidence to say one of the Oswalds is innocent and not connected to the assassination except by filming the event. He went back to Irving to get a camera, not curtain rods.
I have to laugh here. At least now people are suggesting PM has a coke or mug in his hands. That's an improvement over the years from praying PM praying. I think there is more than enough to say more. Maybe years later someone might notice there is some value to what is being said here.
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5 hours ago, Gerry Simone said:
Maybe the blurry quality of the image increases the person's girth. Is he holding a Coke (lol).
Gerry,
I did think at one time PM was holding a coke. But, the John Martin film changed that. A PM figure on Elm Street is taking photos. His camera flashes. Then Chris Davidson showed that there was a camera flash with PM.
This connects the two. No coke. It is a camera.
This bit of evidence establishes one of the Oswald's innocence. PM is Harvey Oswald the man shot at the Dallas Police Station. There were two there. Lee is a good candidate for Doorway Man in Altgens 6 altered into Billy Lovelady. After the assassination he vanishes from history. Almost all traces of Lee Oswald are removed from the media record.
I think Lee Oswald thought he might become the patsy if Harvey could establish an alibi. So, that is why he is in the doorway of the TSBD at the time of the assassination on Elm.
This montage comparison is the best two photos I can find to compare Harvey and Lee. Folks will swear these are the same person. And, that's how they got away with the things that they did since they were children.
To me these are two different people:
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On 8/1/2018 at 1:18 PM, John Butler said:
Ray,
"I totally agree that the image is too fuzzy to make a credible ID,". Good comment. If one goes back to the first comment I made on Prayer Man some time back I said that the image is too vague to really make a positive id. But, it was very suggestive of Oswald. Weigman, Darnell, and John Martin give about the same kind of image to view. All are to vague to state this is Oswald. About all you can say is that the images in Weigman, Darnell, and John Martin resemble each other and they are suggestive of Oswald. And, that would be speculation. However, that would be speculation based on experience and the facts of the images involved.
All in all, If I had to put my money down I would say Oswald or an Oswald double.
Ray's comment at that time was dead on. Mine needs improvement.
I am certain that Prayer Man is a man and Oswald. The Martin film, Couch/Darnell film, and Chris Davidson's gif showing PM with an expensive camera and camera flash, PM's red shirt in Martin (see Andrej Stancak), along with their general appearance, links PM to Oswald. PM had a camera on Elm Street under the trees filming the p. limo as it went by at the time of the shooting. Before Officer Baker ran into the building, PM moved to the steps of the TSBD and continued filming the motorcade. He went into the recessed part of the landing taking cover and concealment due to the shooting.
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7 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:
Let's just tase them and leave them out there in the desert. That's what I say.
Drone TASES a migrant at the border as part of plan to use a 'wall of drones' to protect the US in promotional video for tech start-up - but founder says plan has now been ditched and was wrong 'ethical direction'
We have the tech for this:
How about a multitude of hunter/killer, no, make that hunter/shooter robot dogs armed with machine guns shooting rubber bullets. You could vet warfare technology that could be used later in war and save human lives. That would be the right "ethical direction".
Sorry, just kidding.
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18 hours ago, Bob Ness said:
Afraid? No. Circumspect in my behavior? Yes. These apparently small figures ignore this: 50 million plus people have been infected that they know of. Today 60,000 people were in the hospital being treated for CV. Today. If you had a mass in your rectum that needed to be removed and couldn't because of unvaccinated CV patients plugging up the hallways I'd bet you'd sing a different tune.
Thanks, Bob for replying.
Probably not. Those are better odds for surviving than other things. A lot of other things. Surviving others folk's noxious and unwarranted humor is one. There are lots of people full of it.
I am a vet from the Viet Nam era. I have multiple service-connected disabilities to the 100% level. Plus, several other serious health problems. I was in and out of the hospital for office visits, lab tests, surgeries, CT Scans, MRIs, and other procedures from 2019 to early 2021.
I never saw any hall packed or emergency rooms packed with victims of covid. I don't know of anyone denied medical services due to covid.
17 hours ago, Bob Ness said:One and the same hahaha! It gets tiresome. Bunch of babies.
No babies here Bob. Just one cantankerous old guy. And, the old guy gave up drinking Kool aid a long time ago, particularly the government brand.
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2 hours ago, Jonathan Cohen said:
The fact that, according to "Harvey and Lee" doctrine, "this conspiracy" involves "the whole Oswald family" is precisely what makes it idiotic. Do you actually believe that all these family members and friends knew there were two Oswalds, and then proceeded to give interviews about the assassination for the rest of their lives and NEVER MENTIONED IT, ever? Those are some smart conspirators, huh?
Sure. Well, I'm not so sure about John Pic from some of the things he said. For Robert and Mama Oswald, you can't get much deeper into the conspiracy. I don't think they liked where it ended. I think they were patriotic Americans who believed they were doing the right thing for their country. As far as Marina goes, her self-interest and loyalty to the Soviets have kept her quiet over the years.
IMO, the Oswald family were willing participants and believed in what they were doing. The Paines were simply agents. Marguerite did give up the game to get her son home claiming that Oswald worked for the CIA as a spy. Robert gave himself away in his book when he talked about Lee being at home when he was at Atugi Naval Base in Japan. Who knows what Marina's actual position was and still is.
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This photo, labelled No. 2, is different from any I have seen before.
Photo 2 show debris from a head shot with a portion of Kennedy's head removed. No. 1 is what we normally see.
No. 2 Moorman Polaroid comes from the video JFK Anniversity: The Second Gunman Named. This video was based on an Anthony Summers book. Name "Not In Your Life time..."
No. 1 has been sharpened with software. No. 2 shows pretty much the same thing as far as the background is concerened. IMO, people have been erased from the right side of the limo. The motorbike cop's windshield has been retouched where a segment was cut off during alteration.
I have seen Mary's Polaroid countless times and have not seen it like this in No. 2.
Has anyone else seen this?
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1 hour ago, Jonathan Cohen said:
Uh huh. So, Marina Oswald, Robert Oswald, Marguerite Oswald, Ruth Paine and Michael Paine all arrive at Dallas PD headquarters expecting to see Lee, but instead they find a beaten, bruised and scraped "Harvey" sitting across the table? And NOBODY says a word? This theory is so profoundly idiotic that I cannot believe anyone actually subscribes to it at this late date.
1 hour ago, Jonathan Cohen said:bruised and scraped
"profoundly idiotic"? Does this say I am an idiot? JC, I think you have been cautioned before about breaking Forum rules with ad hominem attacks and name calling. Should I send this to the editors?
Two Oswalds. That is a significant part of this conspiracy. One that involves the whole Oswald family. And, the Paines, their handlers or keepers, if you like.
1 hour ago, Jonathan Cohen said:bruised and scraped
As far as "bruised and scraped":
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4 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:
Chief Executive of the United Kingdom Health Security Agency (UHKSA) Dr. Jenny Harries (pictured) stated on Wednesday that the Omicron coronavirus variant is the "most significant threat to public health since start of the pandemic."
Harries predicted that the number of new daily cases in the upcoming days would be "staggeringly high" due to the variant, but admitted that it was too early to tell how serious the new infections will be.
The UK is speeding up its booster campaign in light of the rise in cases and in order to better fight the "Omicron emergency", as officials are hopeful that no new restrictions will be introduced before the holidays.
Current statistics suggest that 0.2285 percent of the people have died in the US from Covid. 800,000 deaths. That's 99.7715 (pop. 350,000,000) percent who survive or are unaffected by the disease. Another statistic says that 1 out of 100 old people catch covid and die. 99% odds is good enough for me not to be concerned. Of course, when I say this, others say well, people have died. And, that is true. Are you afraid with these odds?
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On 12/12/2021 at 2:52 AM, Vince Palamara said:
Later, Curry said he could never place Oswald on the 6th floor with a rifle in his hand.
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I turned the contrast down and the brightness up. The shadow behind the ear does not appear to be different from the shadows under the nose and chin.
This is a good shot of Harvey to show the identification traits one can use to id this Oswald.
1. Left ear with two folds at the top rim.
2. Earlobes
3. Comb over to hide a significant recession of his hairline on both sides of the head.
4. Large, slender nose.
5. Short chin.
6. Slender to normal neck in profile. In a direct to the front shot, Harvey appears to have a wide and stout neck.
This photo may have been retouched. Oswald received a significant beat down at the Texas Theater and later at the Dallas Police Station. This beating shows as bruises and scrapes in other photos of Oswald in his T shirt.
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I think Chris D's illustration should satisfy everyone. Here is my identification. Dwarf Man, the dwarf Prayer Man. Well, that solves two problems. One he is male and that takes care of Jake. And, being a dwarf that settles Andrej's problem with height. Everyone should be happy now.
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On 12/10/2021 at 4:59 AM, Ed LeDoux said:
In the left image Boswell et al are pulling the scalp to manipulate it for the photo.
Right image Boswell is manipulating Kennedy's right shoulder to make back wound appear higher in relationship. (See left shoulder)
Thanks Robin.
Cheers, Ed
Or, he could be covering other wounds with his ruler. We are only supposed to see just one. And, that would be this:
Just above the ruler we are supposed to see one wound. The larger one which is closest to Kennedy's head. Red arrow indicates the larger one.
Kennedy was allegedly shot with a Carcano 6.5mm round. How big was that? Well, to put in in more familiar terms for most folks a .25 inch caliber or 6.5 mm is one quarter inch in width. Even, if Kennedy was shot with a 30.06 (.30 cal), or 7.63mm (.30 cal), or an 8mm (.30 cal) the wound should be less than 1/3 or one third of an inch. Basically, small.
So, how do we account for the larger appearance of the wound indicated? It could be one of two things. One, a larger entrance wound created by a tumbling bullet which is said to create a key-hole shaped wound. Smaller caliber rounds such as the 6.5mm Carcano, or the M16 5.56mm were said to tumble due to being small and shot at a high velocity, 6.5mm at approx- 2400 fps and 5.56 at 3000+ fps.
Two, it could be a larger exit wound which is generally larger than an entrance wound. See, what I consider a wound just to it's left (right hand direction). This appears to be a smaller keyhole shaped wound.
If this is an exit wound (indicated by red arrow) what would be the adjacent wounds? Entrance wounds? This would indicate firing from the front and the back. A crossfire. Standard ambush technique.
Turning to Kennedy's head wound. Isn't that a nice, dark shadow at the base of Kennedy's head? One can't see anything as intended. But, looking at the full crop one sees a heart shaped patch. It could simply be there saying 'from the autopsy folks with love". The Parkland doctors wound disappears behind a heart shaped patch as dark as the black patch we see in the Zapruder film.
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13 hours ago, Jake Hammond said:
Prayer Man does not wear a skirt, I should add.
Nor heels.
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4 hours ago, Mark Tyler said:
Fair enough John, you don't accept all of my judgements. I'm a free speech, free thinking kind of guy, so I think you have every right to defend your point of view. However, to say I have ignored witnesses is simply untrue as my compiled list of over 400 witnesses testifies (all neatly ordered into a table so you can dissect the work in a spreadsheet program):
If that is the case, then your animation should show shooting in the intersection of Elm and Houston or in front of the TSBD. Over 100 witnesses said this.
This is what I object to:
You have the two groups of Motorcycle Policemen broken apart when in actuality they maintained their respective formations with the exception of turns. 3 bikes could easily make turns on the motorcade route. 5 bikes had to separate into 3 in the turn first and then 2 more followed. This is what they said they did in the turns. They would rebuild their formation after the turn.
You show something different which I believe is inaccurate. You should probably show only what the films/photos/witnesses show. Of course, if you do that you will not have much of a motorcade.
We have no way to know what they did on Houston Street. I can’t find any film or photos that show the motorbikes on Houston Street. Certainly not in the formations that you show.
There were two groups of motorcycle officers at the beginning of the motorcade. These were the Advance and Lead Motorcycles. The Advance Motorcycles went first:
Advance (3): Lead (5):
1. Sgt S. Q. Bellah Sgt. Stavis Ellis
2. Officer Glen C. McBride Officer E. D. Brewer
3. Officer J. B. Garrick Officer Harold B. Freeman
Officer W. G. Lumpkin
Officer Leon E. Grey
These officers maintained their motorcycle formations after the many turns they made on the route as they were instructed.
In the Patsy Paschall film we see a lead group, the Advance Motorcycles of 3 men, and in the background the second group of 5 men, the Lead Motorcycles. This is hard to see, but stick with it.
These men have made many turns since leaving the airfield and began their course through Dallas. Here we see 3 Advance motorbikes and then to the left (right hand) another group of 5. They are in formation since turning on to Main Street. They made many turns between the airfield and Dealey Plaza this way.
You can’t expect them to do anything different from what they had already done. They were there to protect the president and would not be able to do that as shown in your motorcade animation. Or, at least claimed to be there to do that.
Robert Hughes film:
The Hughes film does not show any motorcycle cops in the formation that Mark has. They don’t show any. Except at the end of the film there is some movement that can be seen in through the crowd which maybe the motorbikes or the Lead Car.
Orville Nix film:
No information on motorbikes.
Marie Muchmore:
This film does not show the Advance Motorcycles. It does show the Lead Motorcycles making the turn with 3 bikes making the turn first and 2 follow directly with little distance between. Afterwards, we see the Lead Car. These bikes in the turn are not the Advance Motorcycles. Look at the Patsy Paschall scene. She filmed from the Old Court House. The Advance Motorcycles are getting ready to make the turn onto Houston.
John Martin film:
Shows basically what the Muchmore film shows.
Charles Bronson:
No information
AMIPA film:
3 Advance Motorcycles on Main Street at Market Street.
Emily Bond photo:
3 Advance Motorcycles in the foreground starting to make the turn with the Lead Motorcycles in the background.
Richard Bothun photo:
Basically, the same as Emily Bond. In fact, they could be the same photo.
Elsie Dorman film:
Has no information on the motorcycle groups.
To sum up there is no information on how the Motorcycle groups appear on Houston Street. In all films/photos they are in formation with the only break is when the Lead Motorcycles made a turn. They would break into two groups of 3 bikes and 2 bikes. It was easier to make the turn that way. After the turn the Lead Motorbikes would regroup. This is what we see in the film/photo scenes concerning the two groups.
Logically, we know the two groups of motorbikes did travel Houston Street. But, we have no information on how they did that.
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8 minutes ago, John Butler said:
Chris D. said,
Think "station wagon".
I did. And, this is the one I thought of on that afternoon.
The Framing of Lee Harvey Oswald --- Part III
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
JC,
Show me the proof to back up this statement. And, don't send me off to another site or person. You make these broad statements. Back this one up.
Name this vast majority. Can you get past a half dozen or so. Let's me generous. Maybe a dozen. Name some.