John Butler

2 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

If Armstrong's theory didn't have "speculative fiction," then it wouldn't be a theory, would it?

Sandy,

What is speculation?  In this case "speculative fiction"?  It is a hypothesis that can be tested against the known facts.  Even a rejection or falsification of a hypothesis is worth knowing about.  And, that is the scientific method. 

Quantum Physics.  Spooky action at a distance.  Singularity.  Inflation.  Dark Matter.  Dark Energy.  String Theory.  Quantum Loop Gravity.  Anti-matter/matter annihilation.  And, many more all have their weaknesses.  All have some problem that leaves them questionable or open to interpretation.  As an example, the speed of light can't be exceeded yet there are said to be galaxies moving away from us faster than the speed of light. 

But, as you say they are the best explanation available in science for what is known and from there to a projection into the unknown.  

10 hours ago, Al Fordiani said:

“Why would Tippit follow the bus?”  That was his job.  He was following orders.  In all likelihood he was being led to where he and Oswald would “kill each other” in a double murder, but the original plan got derailed a bit when Oswald got off the bus and went home first.  

Al,

That really is an interesting idea.  I have never thought of it that way.  Tippit did have his pistol out.  It was found under his body.  If he was quicker and shot the shooter, then things would be different.  The old saying about the quick and the dead is true.  There would be no need for the Texas Theater farce.  The killer of President Kennedy would have died at 10th and Patton.  No need to arrest Harvey.  Case closed.  The "boys" could go on to other CIA adventures.  Maybe they would have eventually gotten one of those stars or medals they post inside the CIA headquarters for agents that have done a good job.  

On 10/10/2018 at 10:57 AM, David Josephs said:

TATUM:   Next. this man with a gun in his hand ran toward the back of the squad car, but instead of running away he stepped into the street and shot the police officer who was lying in the street

Bowley says that he turns Tippit over as he was face down
Clayton says he was covered with a ROYAL BLUE COAT which he removed

How does one shoot a man thru the temple, front to back, if he's face down?  

And why does no one else corroborate these movements?  It had to happen right in front of Markham, Holan, the Wrights, the Davis', Benavidas, Scoggins... etc...

This is a photo of the Tippit scene after the shooting:

The witness above states he saw no blood from Tippit when he turned the body over.  Tippit was at this point allegedly shot 4 times.  There is some dispute about the head wound at this point.  There should have been blood from at least 3 or 4 gunshot wounds.  I believe someone said earlier that Tippit's head was behind the front driver's side wheel face down.  If so, there should be blood there or near the tire.  There doesn't appear to be the case.

If Tippit did fall near the tire or close, then this photo gives credibility to the witness statement above about seeing no blood.   If the stain on the payment near the officer's feet is blood, then Tippit's patrol car was moved.   If the patrol car was moved, then why?  Another problem is:

"How does one shoot a man thru the temple, front to back, if he's face down?"

That question is the first problem with the head wound leading one to believe that something else occurred.  I believe no one really saw Tippit being shot in the head.  From what we learned in reading the Tippit autopsy report by Dr. Earl Rose will strengthened this question in bold print.  It will call into question was Tippit shot in the head at the murder scene.

The witnesses at the scene reported a variable number of shots.  There could have been 3, 4, 5, or more as reported by various witnesses.  This is enough for 3 or 4 wounds.  Is it enough for 5?  Once again, there is something wrong with the Tippit autopsy report.  Dr. Earl Rose gave two descriptions of gunshot wound no. 1, the head wound.  If these two descriptions are correct, then there were 5 wounds suffered by the Tippit body.  Was one suffered postmortem?  This one:

Another illustration of this is the Kennedy head shot.  Z frames 312 to 317 have all the material that comes from Kennedy's head dissipate in a third of a second or less.  Is that realistic.  No, I don't think so.

This gif has frames Z 312-317 at 2 seconds per frame.

7 hours ago, Chris Bristow said:

Yeah it's frames 294 and 295

Yes.  There is too much head movement for 2 frames can only mean another alteration of the Z film.  If so, would this confirm what others think about removing a large number of frames from the film so that it runs at a slower frame rate of 18 frames per second rather than say 24 or 40?

1 hour ago, Karl Hilliard said:

 Ear witnesses reported a pa-pow sound of gunfire.

Also.... is this not a hole right square in the back of his head? ---

 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4a/JFK_posterior_head_wound.jpg/220px-JFK_posterior_head_wound.jpg

Karl,

This is Ida Dox's line drawing of Kennedy's head.  Some artists can actually get pretty close to copying a photo realistically and to the point that only another artist will notice the difference.  It was used to coverup the gaping hole at the rear of the skull.  

9 hours ago, Chris Bristow said:

Recently I noticed Jackie's head movement in frames 294/295 is as great as JFK's head movement from 312 to 313. The GIF below shows the movement. I have always assumed the sudden movement of JFK's head must be due to a bullet impact. The accepted notion was that much movement in one frame is abnormal and must be due to the force of a bullet, but Jackie seems to do it and she wasn't shot.
 Maybe JFK's head movement was just a physical jerk related to the wound in his throat. Of course the movement happens right when his head explodes so I might assume it is from the rear head shot, but I used to think it had to be.

Chris,

That is way too much movement for two frames.  Are there skipped frames between these two?  Are these Z 291 and Z 292?

4 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Not that I’m aware of, but multiple witnesses have claimed that LEE Harvey Oswald was active among anti-Castro Cuban exiles in Florida while Lee HARVEY Oswald was in Russia.  The Florida mercenaries were  a rough crowd, including Frank Fiorini/Sturgis.

I thought of those you mentioned.  I had no definite data that Lee Oswald was into any violent activity there with anti-Cuban/mercenary forces.  It is very possible.  He could have received training violent in nature which would top off his basic military training.  

The reason I ask is the Tippit murder was done by someone who could only be a trained professional.   I have reason to believe that Officer Tippit once shot and down suffered a coup de grace shot at the last shot fired.  This was done by inserting a gun into his mouth and firing a round.  How do I know this since there is a clear and present gunshot wound to the forehead area of Tippit?   No one saw Tippit being shot.  Does that make sense?   Rose made two descriptions of the head wound.   I'll explain. 

I can't explain the gunshot wound to the forehead area seen in photos.  I have no real information saying that someone delivered a gunshot wound to Tippit's forehead area after he was dead and out the Methodist Hospital.   Supposedly, there were 3 wounds described at the Methodist Hospital by Dr. Liquori and not four.  Earl Rose said there were 4 shots.  It is wound No. 1 which is the head shot and is described by Rose two different ways.

If you really examine the Tippit Autopsy you will see that "it" which was either the bullet or wound track begins at the bottom of the skull at the middle right cranial fossa, rather than what was shown in the photo in the forehead wound.

I did come across a prior incident of violent behavior on the part of Lee Oswald.  This was from The Oswald Code by Alan Weberman.  He reports Gary Hemming as the source of this info.  How reliable this is questionable since it came from Hemming.  Hemming said when the marines were at Subic Bay near the city of Angeles the marines would go out hunting Huks, communist guerillas, on the weekends.  It was stopped when 4 marines were killed.  Oswald is said to be wounded by a grenade.

The Tippit head shot would suggest a professional being involved.  The thought was that it might not be Lee Oswald who delivered that hidden shot.  If so, that would make Lee Oswald as a trained killer or someone who was trained as an assassin.  This is the gun in the mouth suicide technique.  It is a shot that reaches the back of the skull to disrupt the cerebellum and brain stem area ensuring death and no chance of recovery.

It is like Jack Ruby shooting Harvey Oswald.  The across the body shot from Ruby insures as much damage to organs, arteries, etc will be made.  With proper medical care Tippit might have survived his chest wounds.  Someone, probably Lee Oswald, made sure that he didn't survive.

Once you understand the Tippit autopsy and the other shenanigans such as the second wallet at the scene suggests a professonial, pre-planned killing. 

This was 1964 WC testimony.  None of the trips had been linked to a 1967 book photo.  Robert mentions during this testimony that there may have been 4 occasions for hunting trips.  None of these are linked to the hunting photo.

Robert Oswald WC testimony 1964 Hunting Trips

1.

This was during a leave that Lee had from the Marine Corps.
Mr. JENNER. During a leave that he had?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir. And at which time, if I may correct myself there, another time comes to mind, I recall two times that we had this type of light hunting out there at that farm, at the same place. One time was during a leave that he had from the Marine Corps. I don't recall of any game at that particular time that we shot. I know we did handle the rifle and fired maybe target practice, something along that line. I don't recall of anything.
The second time that I now remember is during his stay after he returned from Russia, during his stay at my home in Fort Worth, that my wife and I and our children took him and his wife and child out to the farm to meet our in-laws, my in-laws, and also to do a little hunting while we was out there, and which we did just a very little bit. I believe this was on a Sunday afternoon and we didn't stay out very long.
 

 (This would be two different trips.  The first would be in 1957 or 1958?  The second one would be in the summer of 1962.  This trip does not match the photo weather wise.)

2.

Mr. JENNER. I have a recollection that when he was mustered out of the service in September of 1959 he spent two or three days at home in Fort Worth.
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And there was an occasion when you and he and some friends of yours went on a hunting trip.
Mr. OSWALD. My brother-in-law.
Mr. JENNER. Or you went squirrel shooting or rabbit shooting.
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct.

(This particular trip would be in Sept. 1959.  It doesn't match the photo weather wise.)
 

3.

Mr. JENNER. What was the occasion of this trip? How did it come about? Did you suggest it, your brother- in-law, Lee or how?
Mr. OSWALD. The day that I recall that Lee stayed with us in-between the time he was discharged and the time he was supposed to be leaving for New Orleans was a period of 2 to 3 days. One of those days, I feel sure was it Saturday, either we spent all day out at my in-laws' farm or the afternoon at the farm at which time Lee and I, and my brother-in-law went hunting.
Mr. DULLES. Was this a couple of days before he left for Russia?
Mr. OSWALD. This was a couple of days before he left for New Orleans or about 1 day or 2 days before he left for New Orleans.
Mr. DULLES. And then he shipped out?
Mr. OSWALD. To locate a job.

(Robert skillfully avoids answering Jenner's question about the trip timing being after his discharge from the Marines and before his going to Russia.  This date does not match the photo weather wise.)

That leaves the trip when Oswald was on leave from the Marines.  Which could be Feb./Mar. 1957, or Feb. 1958, or Nov./Dec. 1958.  These are the best dates for the Hunter Photo since they are in colder weather.

I have no reason to doubt Robert's Feb. 1958 date. 

OBTW, there is a note from Tony Krome suggesting Oswald visited the farm prior to Sept. 1956.

"Pre-Sept., 1956- Tony Krome has provided information from Vada’s parents, Vada’s dad that Oswald visited the farm prior to being in the Marines for hunting."

That would be 5 visits and not relevant.  

10 minutes ago, John Butler said:

I had written this date in earlier works on several occasions and have gone back this time to see where it actually came from.  I have too many files on the JFKA.  I wasn't able to find who first cited this but will continue to look for where that was first used.  It is someone else's information.  Soon as I find it I will post.

I believe it was at Robert's WC testimony while being questioned by Albert Jenner.  He said this:

The President's Commission met at 9:30 a.m., on February 20, 1964, at 200 Maryland Avenue NE, Washington, D.C. Present were Chief Justice Earl Warren, Chairman; Senator John Cooper, Representative Hale Boggs, Representative Gerald R. Ford, and Allen W. Dulles, members. Also present were Lee Rankin, general counsel; Albert E. Jenner, Jr., assistant counsel; Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant counsel; William McKenzie, attorney for Robert Edward Lee Oswald and Leon Jaworski, special counsel to the attorney general of Texas.

“Mr. JENNER. On the occasion during which you went hunting during that 3-day period, interregnum his return and his discharge and his departure for New Orleans, was the weapon he employed a bolt-action weapon?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; it was.” 

This part of the interrogation indicates the date was in Sept., 1959 just before Oswald left for Russia from New Orleans.  

This testimony was taken in Feb. 1964.  This was before he wrote his book.

It took me a while to find this.

On 12/26/2021 at 12:41 PM, Greg Doudna said:

Can you say where you are getting that Robert Oswald dated that photograph to Sept 1959? 

I had written this date in earlier works on several occasions and have gone back this time to see where it actually came from.  I have too many files on the JFKA.  I wasn't able to find who first cited this but will continue to look for where that was first used.  It is someone else's information.  Soon as I find it I will post.

Denise,

I don't know how many times JFK was shot in the head.  I speculate that there was just two.  Other folks have come up with higher numbers.

The forehead to the rear occipital area can be seen as one shot.  Or, it could be seen as two shots if there was a lower level shot to the temporal region.  That would make two.  I discount the high, rear skull shot.  If that was a rifle shot that would come out somewhere in the front of Kennedy's skull not at the top or side.  

There may be confusion on the location of the forehead wound near the hairline.  Most just say the temporal region.  Not so, if the forehead wound is accurately described, it would be in the Sphenoid bone or the Frontal bone.  The Sphenoid bone is located near the eye.  The area of a shot to the temporal region is not there do to tampering with the skull as David Lipton describes. 

That is the two shots I ascribe to as far as head wounds go.  

There were many shooting stations in this ambush of JFK.  I believe each station was authorized to shoot 3 times and no more.  The noise from the motorcade would limit any noise from shooting on Main Street or in the intersection of Main and Houston. Shooting on Main Street occurred as several witnesses said.  I don't think this would be heard at the intersection of Houston and Elm or down Elm Street.  Such shoot may be heard as firecrackers or the backfire of the police motorcycles.

What I am trying to say is that witnesses would hear the 3 shots that were the closest to them and not more distant shots unless they had exceptional hearing.  

1 hour ago, Denise Hazelwood said:

The bullet pieces had to miss the medulla, since JFK was still breathing at Parkland.

Denise,

I have always wondered if that was true.  I have wondered whether the Parkland doctors just said that to say they were making an attempt to keep Kennedy alive.  I can't see surviving the head trauma that Kennedy suffered.  With that kind of head wound I would think all brain functions would stop.  But, I believe the Parkland doctors described JFK breathing as agonal breathing.  Just for clarity:

Agonal breathing is when someone who is not getting enough oxygen is gasping for air. It is usually due to cardiac arrest or stroke. It's not true breathing. It's a natural reflex that happens when your brain is not getting the oxygen it needs to survive. 

Agonal breathing is a sign that a person is near death. It's also a sign that the brain is still alive. People who have agonal breathing and are given cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) are more likely to survive cardiac arrest than people without agonal breathing.

If this is so, then the brain stem area must have had little damage.

Kennedy did not move after the head shot.  He slumped over to the left towards Jackie.  This is consistent with the cerebellum impaired.

Jim,

From:

THE PRE-ARRANGED MURDER OF J.D. TIPPIT

By John Armstrong

“After killing Tippit, LEE Oswald left the scene…” 

Is there any other reference to Lee Oswald being involved in an assassination or murder at some other time and place?

I don’t know of any excluding the Walker event.  I don't include Oswald with that.  Do you know any even if speculation?

On 12/24/2021 at 3:48 PM, David Lifton said:

There was a "Dallas set-up" to falsify the circumstances of JFK's death that was an integral part of the Dallas plot to take his life.  

I believe Earl Rose was a part of that after what he did in the Tippit Autopsy.

On 12/24/2021 at 10:01 AM, Greg Doudna said:

Maybe you have cited this earlier but could you say where Robert Oswald dated that photograph to Sept 1959? That makes little sense, so just would like to know the documentation on that.

Very gracious of you to acknowledge not having a problem with Tracy Parnell's dating of the photograph to Feb 1957 as reasonable and possible, thereby removing that photo as citable as a positive argument for two Oswalds. Glad to get that cleared up and out of the way!

Greg,

Robert wrote a book in 1967.  The exact title escapes me at the moment.  The pic is in the book.

I generally pay attention to Tracy Parnell.  I believe he is an honest researcher.  I don't agree with many of his ideas.  I made a timeline of Harvey and Lee in the military.  His work was helpful in in verifying the timeline in places.  

I'm sorry to disappoint, but what I said was it was possible for Lee Oswald to be there.  I also said it is possible for Harvey to be there.  This is not based upon my ideas, but David Joseph's timeline of Harvey and Lee and research that I have done. 

My best assumption is that Robert did mean Lee Oswald was there in Feb. 1958 (don't take this out of context).  But, in reality which Oswald was really there?  When it was pointed out that Lee Oswald was in Japan at that time and place, he had to change the date.  He chose Sep. 1959.  Sep. is definitely a wrong date for the photo.  The temperature difference between Feb. and Sep. is extreme in the sense of cold weather to warm weather.

Mama Oswald, Robert Oswald, Marina, and possibly John Pic were all involved in this intelligence scheme.  Oswald's family were patriots.  They thought they were doing the right thing up until the end and then afterwards.   

Denise,

Speaking of a head shot to Kennedy from the 6th floor to the intersection, I still think the angle is too high.  However, there could be the possibility of a shot from the 2nd or 3rd SE corner offices.  Steve Wilson's behavior on that day and later to me is suspicious. 

That might make the head shot possible.  I'm not very good with angles and distances.  But, it is a possibility that I have always thought possible. 

1 hour ago, Greg Doudna said:

There are other explanations for sure. Here is mine for John Butler:

The Hunter Photo ~ W. Tracy Parnell (wtracyparnell.blogspot.com)

Sure.  He made two mistakes on dates if you are right.  There is a possibility for Feb. 1957 for Lee.  Ther is also a possibility for Harvey in early 1957.  He left Ca. for training in Fla. in Mar. 1957.  This fits Vada's 4 or 5 month period.  I accept the 1958 date for Harvey.  He was in New Orleans at the time and could have gone over to Texas for a hunting trip.  Lee was in Japan.

  But, Robert's real problem with veracity is he changed his mistake from Feb. 1958 to Sep. 1959.  

1 hour ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

It makes Robert ... someone who made a simple, honest mistake? Why is it that "Harvey & Lee" adherents can't possibly bring themselves to accept that there are perfectly innocent explanations for these inconsistencies?

JC,

Are you and Jeremy a tag team?

This is not a simple and honest mistake.  There are no innocent explanations for this photo's dating.  When changed again it was not to cold weather in late 1958 or early 1959 but to later on in Sep. 1959.  The man has on a t-shirt, shirt, sweater, and jacket.  This photo was taken outside in colder weather and not in Sep.

1 hour ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

Furthermore, can you explain why on God's green earth the evil "Oswald Project" overlords allow Robert Oswald, who, according to you, was "in" on the plot, to not only write a tell-all book but include "obvious" mistakes in it that give away the whole game? Were they just waiting for Internet sleuths like yourself to uncover the whole charade three decades later?

I have already explained this.  Maybe not to your satisfaction.  People make mistakes and then try to cover up those mistakes when someone exposes them.  The whole JFKA is filled with obvious mistakes both in the media and witness statements.  Why people have not seen those mistakes in over 50+ years is a mystery.  It is simply not wanting to admit they missed this simple but obvious feature.  So, therefore it is to be ignored because it is of no relevance if "I" missed it.  It seems like those who claim to have reviewed the entire witness list's statements have done so in desultory fashion focusing in on what they want to see.

"the evil "Oswald Project" overlords" missed a lot of things in their cover up.  I don't have time nor space to comment further.  Just go back and look at a 5 year record of what I have said.  

1 hour ago, Denise Hazelwood said:

John Butler, to understand my "kill shot" coming from Oswald and entering the forehead, you must first accept that the Z-film is a fabrication. Once you accept that much, then go back and look at the witness accounts.

Denise,

You need say no more than this.  Sorry, if I seemed to be challenging what you said.  I was simply looking for clarification.  The problem I have with the head shot in the intersection of Houston and Elm from the TSBD is I believe the angle is too steep to account for that head wound there.  I understand others can think differently.

I am one of the biggest proponents of the Zapruder film being altered.  One of my main theories is the assassination took place in the Zapruder Gap, that missing section of film between Z 132 and Z 133.  The Zapruder Gap contains the footage of what happened in the intersection and in front of the TSBD.  IMO, the editors just took the film from there and transferred it down to the Grassy Knoll as we see in the extant film.  All they had to do was transfer the images from the inside to the car rather than the whole thing.  I think there is evidence of this in Z 157.  There were more people than Zapruder filming this event in the intersection and from different angles.  I think I can see 3 different camera angles on the SW corner of Houston and Elm.  It's iffy and involves the place position of people as seen in different films such as Zapruder and Elsie Dorman.   

I don't think over a hundred witnesses are lying or are misinterpreting what they saw.  You might argue over a few in the list, but this is what they said.  I carefully excluded those that could be arguable in my opinion.

I don't agree with the George HIckey notion.  Most of the action in the assassination took place in the Zapruder Gap and just before.  Hickey's firing of his weapon comes later down Elm Street so to me it has relatively no importance.

I agree with too many of the things you are saying to dismiss what you are saying.  You may be right and I will later change my opinion.  But, not right now.  There are things I disagree with like Hickey and the head shot.

Too many people are placing too many head shots into Kennedy's head.  There is a thread on this here on the forum.  It seems like I counted something like 7 or more.  7 may be a high number, but it was certainly more than 3.

Thanks for responding.  

On 12/22/2021 at 5:54 AM, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

It's worth noting that, after more than two decades of effort, only a tiny proportion of JFK assassination researchers have been persuaded that there was a long-term project involving two Oswalds and two Marguerites (or, in John Butler's case, three or four of each). I've quoted Bernie Laverick's comment before, but it's a good one, so here it is again:

JB,

Look at this photo taken from a film clip:

Notice the date.  It is 1958.  This is a photo from Robert Oswald and was taken at a ranch or farm of his in-laws.  The problem with the date is Lee Oswald is in Atsugi, Japan for 1958.  There is some time when he is on maneuvers in the Philippines and South China Sea area.  Definitely not in Texas.  If Robert is correct this photo can only be explained by two Oswalds.

The complete photo with Robert's caption:

The date says it is February 1958.  Later it was realized that the date given here was "wrong" and was changed to Sept. 1959.  This photo is definitely not September in Texas.  Oswald has on a shirt, sweater, and jacket.  Texas in September can have over 100 degree temperatures.  Definitely not a hot weather photo.

There's a big difference between February 1958 and September 1959.  One date gives two Oswald and the second gives one.  The second is a cover up change by Robert.  The temp difference between Sep. and Feb. is real as experienced by this fellow in 1969 in Texas.  OBTW, what does this make Robert?  A knowing conspirator? 

If one wants to change the date on this a better 1958 date would be the Nov./Dec. period when Lee Oswald returned from Japan in 1958.  The weather would be about the same as Feb. 1958.  But, that is not what is being said.

I have speculated from time to time of a 3rd Oswald but have no real proof and only vague connections that can be explained one way or another.  The above photo is just one of hundreds of pieces of evidence that screams two Oswalds.  As for a third, it is iffy. 

PS

I have noticed that in a large number of cases people do not notice details in photos.  Details such as the temperature difference in Texas between Sep. and Feb.  I believe that the notion that a photo shows reality and what can be seen in a photo is reality blinds people to what they are actually seeing.

Another OBTW, the wife says this environment is a bit strange for squirrel hunting.  Where's the trees?  I guess one could hunt ground squirrels there.  But, what would you do with them other than shoot them.  Eat them?  How many would that be for a meal?  Most ground squirrels are less than rat sized.  Ground squirrel on a stick, anybody?  Or, as Tim would say "how do you like your ground squirrel?"   

On 11/24/2021 at 8:00 AM, Denise Hazelwood said:

If you watch Part 6: "The Kill Shot" you will know that the fatal shot did come from the front. Why it was covered up even though it came from the TSBD (Oswald?) was because there was a math problem.

Denise,

Could you explain this in greater detail.  I am somewhat confused.  The fatal shot comes from the front and Oswald made the shot from the TSBD.  That doesn't make any sense.  In order for Oswald to do a frontal shot from the TSBD then the shot would have to occur on Houston Street.

I probably have something wrong here.  Could you clarify this?

JB,

I'm sure you will think this had nothing to do with the Oswald Project.  From the Harvey and Lee site:

"Frank Wisner was a Wall Street lawyer and during WW II worked for the Office of Strategic Services (predecessor of the CIA). After World War II ended thousands of Eastern European refugees were brought to the United States under his supervision. National Security Council (NSC) records show that Wisner, the CIA's director of clandestine operations, oversaw the re-location of thousands of anti-Communist exiles to the United States as a means of rewarding them for conducting secret operations against the Soviets. Wisner became the CIA and State Department’s expert on European war refugees, and secretly subsidized the refugee relief organizations that brought these Eastern Bloc refugees to the United States throughout the 1940s and early 1950s.

Wisner and his group recognized they could use these Eastern European immigrant's knowledge, customs, and familiarity with their respective homelands. Wisner asked the National Security Council (NSC) to sanction the “systematic” use of such refugees, and they (the NSC) agreed. The NSC soon issued a top-secret intelligence directive (NSCID No. 14), which even today remains "classified," that authorized both the FBI and the CIA to find and jointly exploit the knowledge, experience, and talents of well over 200,000 Eastern European refugees resettled in the USA. The CIA soon contacted the Displaced Person's Commission (DPC), which worked closely with the leaders of refugee organizations in the USA. DPC chairman Ugo Carusi sent a memorandum to all refugee organizations in the USA that read: “We would like to advise that the U.S. Commission [DPC] has a formal agreement with the CIA to cooperate in every possible way to facilitate their programs. It is, therefore, altogether desirable that local representatives of the voluntary agencies and State Commissions and Committees make available to fully identified CIA agents the addresses of displaced persons.”

I would say Frank Wisner was a henchman of Allen Dulles who first begin to save immigrant refugees early in WW2 in Switzerland

And, once you read this information you may begin to wonder how these refugees, many of whom were children, were to be used by Frank and Co.  Since, Allen and Frank were spies, do you think they may have intended to use these refugee children as spies in the future.  Is it conceivable?  

5 hours ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

You needn't look any farther than right here on this forum, where Jeremy Bojczuk astutely points out:

Wilcott's notion of an 'Oswald project' specifically contradicted the 'Harvey and Lee' theory in several important respects:

• Wilcott's Oswald was one person, not two. Wilcott's Oswald did not have a doppelganger, and Wilcott's Oswald's mother did not have a doppelganger. 
• Wilcott's Oswald was an English-speaking American, born and brought up in the USA, not a native Russian-speaking eastern European refugee.
• Wilcott claimed that Oswald was recruited by the CIA while in the Marines, not several years earlier while still a child.

Those are the three central elements of the 'Harvey and Lee' theory, and they are all contradicted by James Wilcott.

With pleasure! Marina Oswald, Priscilla McMillan, Jeremy Bojczuk, Mark Stevens, David Lifton, Robert Charles-Dunne, Tracy Parnell, Pat Speer, Barry Ernest, Bernie Laverick, Josiah Thompson, Gus Russo, Greg Parker, Bart Kamp, Jefferson Morley, Gary Mack, John Newman, Tom Purvis, Mick Purdy, Jon Tidd, Paul Trejo, Thomas Graves, Duncan MacRae, Steve Roe, Vince Palamara, Alex Wilson, Dale Myers, Fred Litwin, David Von Pein, Bill Brown, Walt Brown, Lance Payette, John Mytton and Steve Barber, for starters...

JC,

Thanks for your reply.  Appreciated.  You do know that intelligence agencies such as the CIA have what is know as "chinese walls".  Things are compartmentalized so that missions, or information is not betrayed by someone who has knowledge they shouldn't.  Wilcott had no need to know if there were two or more Oswalds.  He was simply authorized to pay out to an Oswald.  More than likely the one in Japan at Atsugi.  OBTW, his records were kept by the 501st  Military Intelligence Bde, in Korea.  Wonder why?  

Harvey Oswald's native language was not English.  One way you can tell?  Oswald misused the articles in speech.  Foriegners speaking English usually do that.  Well, I have to add mis-educated young people occasionally do the same.

Walcott in claiming that Oswald was recruited as a Marine was just passing on what he knew.  What he knew was related to CIA gossip and not actual knowledge except for his area of endeavor.

The list of people you named are all anti-Harvey and Lee folk?  Which of the named above would you consider to be "lone nutters".  I apologize for the term.  I am using to describe folk who believe Oswald was the single shooter of President Kennedy in the manner the WC concludes.

Eh, eh, eh.  As far as Marina goes, she seems to be at times with one Oswald while another is said to be elsewhere.  Remember, she said she had two husbands.  I don't believe she was referring to Oswald's pyschological quirks.  

I just went back and reviewed episode 9, The Guilty Men.  I'm having a hard time figuring out whether I have been influenced by the things said in that episode, or if they simply dovetail into the things I have been thinking all along.

I believe LBJ and JEH are the two ringleaders of the entire conspiracy.  Their relationship since Johnson became a senator in 1948 mushroomed into Johnson becoming the Senate Majority Leader in a short period of time.  They were neighbors.  IMO, this rise to power was based on the corruption information that Hoover provided Johnson concerning important people that allowed him to gain control of them and the leadership of the Senate.

Just like Johnson and Hoover, there were many other powerful people in control of various functions of government who hated Kennedy as much as those two.  Power and money were going to be taken away from powerful people and factions by the Kennedys.  The Kennedys could not be allowed to continue on into a second term.  Something had to be done.

Assassination.  In public, so all could see the death of the dreams of Kennedy and the of many Americans who put Kennedy on a pedestal with their support.  He had to be shot in the head in public so that those dreams could explode and vanish into the air.  The Zapruder film was the perfect way to record that.

What would be the reason?  Treason.  Treason as outlined in the Dallas Pamphlet.  This would convince other willing individuals to join the plot.  Treason, whether real or false, it didn't matter, would become something people could believe.  The FBI, under Hoover, and Hoover's good friend, the VP Johnson would provide that information.

Other willing individuals in the government would take this up and it would become more believable.  To whom?

Joint Chiefs of Staff

Heads of various Military Intelligence branches

Director of the FBI

Director of the CIA

Ex-CIA personnel Washington and Dallas

Director of the Secret Service

Members of Kennedy's staff

Willing henchmen in the various agencies

Political and Criminal elements

This conspiracy was too big.  Everyone had to stab Caesar.  Everyone had to be involved in some aspect of the assassination.  That would ensure their silence.