George Sawtelle

David Evidence of a shot from the Del Tex Bldg at Z-158 is compelling. 1. Jiggle analysis, which is regarded by the US government as a scientific test, shows that Zapruder was startled by a loud noise at Z-158. 2. The wound in Kennedy´s back did not go through his back. The bullet entered only an inch or two and stopped. The sound was muffled and did not register enough echo peaks to be regarded as a shot by BBN . It registered 4 peaks but it needed to register at least 11. 3. I believe the assassin in the Del Tex building used home made ammunition. Apparently the bullet was not packed properly and thus the misfire and the muffled sound. 4. The Warren Commission did not receive any frames before frame Z-173. So they analyzed the Zapruder film not knowing anything about the first shot. A later version shows Kennedy arching his back in response to being shot in the back. The version quickly dissappeared from the internet. 5. So why hide the frames that show evidence of a shot at Z-158? Simple, evidence of a shooter other than the shooter in the TSBD. The CIA sat on it for more than 22 years. When the supposedly untainted Zap film was seen for the first time Kennedy is seen waving and smiling as the limo turns onto Elm. 6. The CIA was short of time and couldn´t change the frames at the beginning of the film before turning over the film to the Warren Commission. They said the film came from LIFE but if you believe that you´ll believe anything. And of course they spent most of their time altering the film to sell the SBT.

Micah Don.t have a favorite witness. BTW, we´re talking about ear witnesses right as opposed to eye witnesses. Of course no one actually saw a shot, they heard a shot, thus ear witnesses. With regard to ear witnesses, maybe they heard an echo instead of a shot. What distinguishes a shot from an echo?

Micah Yes there was a loud shot at Z-193. And there was a loud noise at Z-158.

Micah a year or two ago the LN´s acknowledged that a loud noise happened as the limo made the turn from Houston onto Elm. But they said it was a backfire from either a vehicle or motorcycle in the parade, not a rifle or gun shot. I know because I argued with them over on Duncan´s forum. Now they ignore it completely as if to say it never happened hoping that it goes away.

David The throat shot was the second shot, not the first. Zapruder was startled by a second shot so much so that he jiggled his camera in response. This occurred at Z-Frame 193. Also the acoustics data indicate a shot near Z-Frame 193. Photos and witness testimony was changed by the cover-up machine. I don´t trust any of it. I rely on the forensics.

David The first shot was loud enough to startle Zapruder, whose caused the camera to jiggle at Z-Frame 158. The shooter must have been close to the parade as people in the parade looked quickly to their left. That is why I don´t believe the sniper was up high on the roof of any building in Dealey Plaza. Forget about anyone firing from a manhole.

Micah Wishing it didn´t happen is not going to make it go away. "Probably" is not good enough. I mean no disrespect but you need to do a little more research. I think you are a novice to the JFK debate. As the limo turned onto Elm from Houston the limo was not visible to the sniper on the sixth floor of the TSBD. There were oak trees between the limo and the sniper.The limo didn´t become visible to the sniper until Z-frame 210 according to a FBI report. So the first two shots could not have come from the TSBD.

Micah I´m glad you mentioned him smiling after being hit in the back. I´m going to use that to prove my point. Some people say they heard a backfire. Some people say they heard a firecracker. Some say a gunshot. Anyway there was heard a loud noise. Those in the parade near the limo look to their left as if looking for the origen of the loud noise. Yet Kennedy continues to wave and smile. He doesn´t even flinch. Something is not right. What do you think Micah?

David I guess No. 1 refers to the first shot. However you mention Kennedy being shot in the throat. The first shot hit Kennedy in the back at Z-158. Kennedy was shot in the throat at Z-193.

Three shells found in the TSBD means three shots. The story told would be ... one shot hit Kennedy in the back, one hit Connally in the back and one hit Kennedy in the head. They had to invent the SBT when Tague came forward with his story about being hit with a piece of concrete chipped off the curb be a shot. The shot that missed.

David The shot after the the head shot had to be taken because the shooter in the TSBD had to take three shots. Up until the head shot he had taken only two shots.

1. Shot No. 1 ... from Del Tex hit Kennedy in the back. Frame Z-158 2. Shot No. 2 ... from the grassy knoll hit Kennedy in the throat. Frame Z-193 3. Shot No. 3 ... from the TSBD hit Connally in the back. Frame Z-224? 4. Shot No. 4 ... from the TSBD hit the pavement on the right side of the limo and ricochetted to chip a piece of concrete that hit Tague on his cheek Frame Z-290 5. Shot No. 5 ... from the grassy knoll hit Kennedy in the head Frame Z- 313 6. Shot No. 6 ... from the TSBD passed over the limo and lodged in the grass on the south side of Elm Z- 332 There were six shots and four shooters, one in the Del Tex Bldg, one in the TSBD, and two on the grassy knoll. I think the plan was to immobilize Kennedy so that he would not be able to duck down into the limo and hide from the grassy knoll shooter who fired the kill shot. The shooter in the TSBD was a diversion, the patsy.

Sandy It´s almost impossible to find out what happened on 22 Nov 1963 reading the testimony of the witnesses. The Warren Commission lawyers changed the testimony. It´s part of the coverup. About the only evidence that we can hang our hat on is the forensics. Much of it could not be changed by the lawyers simply because they didn´t know what they were dealing with and they did not have control over all of it and neither did the FBI. Dulles ordered the changes. I don´t have to say IMO, because I know it was Dulles. Dulles knew what changes had to be made to the ZAP film because he knew how many shots were fired, how many snipers fired the shots. That in itself fingers Dulles. Because how did the Warren Commission lawyers know what to change, how did th e CIA know what needed changing if not for Dulles.

Kirk I agree. In the summer of 1963, Dulles did not have a job, a lot of time to do what he wanted, helpers such as Phillips, access to CIA resources and other personnel and support from the military and the elite. Dulles is the only one who could have commanded the respect to do what had to be done to assassinate JFK. Dulles was the most powerfull person in the US in 1963 outside of Eisenhower.

Andrews On page two about half way down the throat and back wounds are addressed.

Micah It´s like the SBT. Muddies up the water. Then everybody says ... oh, we can´t solve it. It´s too complicated. All this theory does is allow the LN´s to talk ad infinitum and nothing gets settled. JFK was shot once in the head from the front. Multiple shooters. We don´t need anymore theories about multiple shooters.

Micah I believe JFK was shot once in the head, from the grassy knoll.

Micah What does EOP have to do with the shot sequence?

Micah What does EOP mean?

Lance P Shot sequence = the evidence points to the following: Shot 1: Hit Kennedy in the back Shot 2: Hit Kennedy in the throat Shot 3: Hit Connally in the back Shot 4: Missed and ricochetted caused injury to Tague Shot 5: Hit Kennedy in the head Shot 6: Missed lodged in grass south side of Elm

If I´m not mistaken David Philips took a leave of absence the summer of 1963. He was helping the old man.

Lance P There could be 10 different boogymen and 10 different plots as you say but only one is logical and fits the evidence.

Larry I did not read your work. There are two other occurrences that led me to believe that the plot started 6 months out. Most here don´t believe in James Files and Judyth Baker but I do. Files said Niccoletti told him Kennedy would be hit six months before the assassination. Baker said in her book that Oswald told her he met with the plotters to discuss the assassination of JFK in July 1963 in Baton Rouge.

Steve It was probably a combination of events that occurred beginning the summer of 1963. The ringleader got fed up and decided Kennedy had to be taken out.

I believe the plot began about six months before JFK was killed. That would be around May-June 1963. In doing some research to determine the events that occurred in May-June 1963 I found out that Lisa Howard had talks with Castro about US/Cuba reproachment. After her April 1963 talk with Castro she was briefed by the CIA. She indicated to the CIA that Castro was very much interested in peace with the US. I do not believe the CIA plotted to kill Kennedy. However Allan Dulles did. I believe reproachment with Cuba was the catalyst to the assassination.