George Sawtelle

Paul T Is there any truth to the rumor that the Boston godfather was asked if he wanted to participate in the assassination of JFK? Apparently a CIA agent met with the Boston mafia head honcho to gage his interest in killing Kennedy. The Boston don said he had no interest in killing Kennedy.

Paul T Was the mafia involved in the radical right plot to kill Kennedy? Please explain.

Thomas You seem to know about mole hunts in MC by the CIA. You shouldn´t have any problems answering the following questions; 1. How did the impersonation of Oswald start a mole hunt? 2. What was the first step by the CIA in it´s pursuit of a mole? 3. What is the name of the mole? 4. How did the hunt for the mole effect the JFK assassination assuming it did? 5. Who was in charge of the mole hunt?

Paul T The only accomplishment of Simpich is that he gave plausible deniability to the CIA. This is not an impersonation, it´s a mole hunt. And a mole was never found. He has done nothing to further our knowledge of the Kennedy assassination. Yet you act as if Simpich solved the Kennedy assassination. DiEugenio, Salandria, Mark Lane among many have done much more than Simpich to help solve this mystery. They deserve respect and praise, not Simpich.

Paul T The agency or entity that impersonated Oswald had to have the complicity of the CIA. They had to know Oswald was going to Mexico and they had to inform Oswald that he was not needed in Mexico at the last minute. And the agency or entity had to be fanatic enough to want Russia nuked and Cuba invaded. Plus they had to know the military would act as they wished. IOWS, they had to have control over the military to the point of going to war. In a sense the radical right did impersonate Oswald but it was the radical right within the military. Because you won´t find a general who will acquiese to a civilian entity to start a war.

Jim It had to be military intelligence. Use logic and deduction, more deduction. It wasn´t the CIA. Philips controlled Oswald. He could have sent him to MC. Why impersonate him? It wasn´t Hoover. He was pissed because he was kept in the dark. But it was the military. This caper, the impersonation of Oswald, was classic Operation Northwoods (blame Castro for JFK´s death so we justify to all that Cuba is to be wiped out). Operation Northwoods was Lymnitzer´s baby.

Jim I believed at one time that the CIA did not know that Oswald was to be impersonated in MC. I´ve changed my mind. I think they did know and informed Oswald to return to Dallas before entering Mexico. I believe Philips did not want Oswald in MC while military intelligence was doing their impersonation of him. It did seem like Oswald was to go to Mexico given the fact that he apparently applied for and received a Mexican visa card. However I believe he was called back to Dallas when he reached Laredo and the next day he visited Odio. Then when Johnson took steps to stop the military from mobilizing in Florida for an attack on Cuba immediately after the assassination, little by little the impersonation became a mole hunt and documents were faked to place Oswald in Mexico. Then the lone nut theory, which was circulated on the day of the assassination, eventually survived and became the CIA´s answer for why the assassination. What do you think?

Michael C I suggest you check the station number for Z-290 first. It should be about 18 frames up from the X marked in the pavement which signifies the location of the limo when JFK was shot in the head. Knowing the average speed of the limo, the time for the passage of 18 frames one can calculate the distance up from station Z-313, which should be a close approximation of the station at Z-290.

David Looks like Lee with a tupee. Come on CIA, you can do better than that.

Paul T Simpich´s book is based on CIA documents. That alone should disqualify the book as not credible. The CIA is plausible deniability not truth telling.

Jim You are correct about the mole hunt. There was none. It came out after the assassination and people wanted answers about the impersonation of Oswald. It´s just the CIA´s attempt to CYA . Now it´s not an impersonation of Oswald it´s a mole hunt.

Michael C Using a bird´s eye view of Dealey Plaza draw a line from the TSBD to the limo at Z-290 and the spot whereTague was standing and you´ll find a better match.

Michael C There was only one shot from the 3rd floor Dal Tex bldg. The bullet hit JFK about 6 inches down from the right shoulder. It penetrated about 1.5 inches into his back. It entered rear end first. It hit the rear rib cage and remained there until doctors or nurses dislodged it during resusitation efforts. JFK and Connally were not hit by the same bullet. The SBT is hogwash.

Michael W I believe it tumbled as it neared JFK´s body, not as it left the barrel. The bullet traveled in a arc trajectory. I assume the shooter was aiming for JFK´s head but the bullet dropped about 8 inches. I believe the shooter was located in the Dal Tex bldg, 3rd floor, which would place him less than 200 ft from the limo. Bullets that travel at muzzle velocity may drop an inch in a 1000 ft. As the bullet left the barrel it began to point downward sleightly as it arched toward the target. Before it reached it´s target larger air pressure at the top of the bullet than at the bottom forced the bullet to dip. The ass end of the bullet moved upward as the bullet dipped.This action contributed to the tumble.

Michael The bullet that JFK in the back tumbled and entered backwards. The bullet did not follow a straight trajectory. It dropped gradually on it´s way into JFK´s back. As it dropped air pressure against the point of the bullet was greater at the top of the point than at the bottom. This caused the bullet to move downward within the trajectory and it tumbled. As an example, say you move a pencil with your right hand in a straight, horizontal line with the pencil parallel to the floor. With your left hand place your index finger at the top of the pencil point and press downward. The pencil begins to rotate. This is exactly what happened to the bullet that hit JFK´s back.

Michael W I´m getting the impression that you think I subscribe to the 48 FPS film because I mentioned missing frames. The missing frames that I mentioned in another post has nothing to do with the 48 FPS film.In fact I´ve never heard of the 48 FPS film.

Paul You missed the point of my post by a country mile buddy. We who seek truth will find it. All truth comes from the one, same source. Our mission is of higher purpose than just fighting over ¨pet theories¨. We can agree on one thing. A conspiracy took down JFK. How it happened and who took part is still in question and is at the root of our disagreements.

Paul T Oswald went as far as Laredo and was informed to return to Dallas. The CIA found out the military was doing a Northwoods caper to impersonate Oswald in case it was needed after the assassination. After it was apparent that Johnson would not allow the military to nuke Russia and invade Cuba the day of the assasssination the lone nut theory came into existence. Then Oswald wasn´t an agent of Cuba or Russia but a lone nut and the impersonation was played down. However the CIA needed to place Oswald in MC or people would say ... ¨hey he´s not a lone nut he was impersonated in Mexico City. What´s up with that¨. And the lone nut theory could not be considered credible. The above theory is just as viable as your Simpich/mole hunt theory except mine is more rooted in the evidence.

Ken I don´t consider it an impediment (many theories). Agreement is difficult to achieve w/o a leader. If the movement had a leader responsible for the final product all theories would be eliminated except one. The powers of analysis are as different as people themselves. Someone looks at the data, evidence and comes to a conclusion that conflicts with another´s analysis. The evidence is not ignored it´s just analysed differently from researcher to researcher. Apathy is what will doom this movement. As long as people are thinking about the assassination and doing research to find the truth eventually the truth will find the light of day. TRUTH is truth. Seek it and you shall find.

Paul T Please don´t take this to be derogatory but sounds a lot like check´s in the mail.

Michael I don´t want to talk too much about an altered Zap film. This thread is much too important to hijack. I´ll state this and then leave it with you. The WC received an incomplete Zap film for it´s analysis. Frames were missing. As such, the missing frames can be considered to be the first evidence of Zap film alteration.

Paul T It´s not the evidence that has been provided by the government to prove Oswald was in MC it´s what they didn´t provide that leads me to believe he was not there. There should be photos of Oswald leaving the Cuban consulate. There should be pictures of Oswald entering and leaving the Soviet consulate. If the MC CIA station had pictures of Oswald they would surely show them. I´m sure they thought about faking photos but I doubt anyone could come up with credible fake photos. Faking documents is much easier than faking photos.

John Excellent work. More proof that the Zap film was altered. You have an eagle eye buddy keep up the good work.

Michael Researchers are still finding evidence of alteration. People standing along the parade route are in one film and not the other. There were two loud sounds similiar to rifle shots in the parade route before the limo reached the freeway sign. What is the answer for these sounds? The WC and it´s experts ignored them with some weird reasoning (Shaneyfelt). I think you are content to ignore them also. However they can´t be ignored.

Michael I would agree with you because the logic of what you say seems to me to be right on. However we are dealing with the Zap film that w/o a doubt has been altered. So we must use other forensic evidence along with the Zap film to make sure we don´t only rely on evidence that is obviously tainted. I like the blur analysis by Alvarez, Hartmenn and Scott and the acoustics investigation by BBN to back up the Zap film. I believe two areas of the ZAP film that are obviously lacking in credibility are Z frames Z-135 to Z-173 and Z-208 to Z212. BTW, these frames were not included in the Zap film that LIFE gave to the WC to do their report. No one knows why they weren´t turned over to the WC but it seems the WC didn´t complain. All they had to do is go to the CIA and ask for their copy but apparently they didn´t. I believe I know why the above mentioned frames are missing. They show evidence of shots, two shots, before the limo goes behind the freeway sign. These frames had to be covered up because Oswald??? couldn´t have fired these shots from his location. Thus the WC never saw the filmed evidence of the first two shots.