George Sawtelle

Larry Thank you. Content that you have taken the time to discuss this with me. I've learned so much. False flags have become a part of life in the world, and on our soil also. Northwoods was just another false flag that was turned on us. After one gets rid of the red herrings and false leads, one will find that the JFK assassination was just a simple murder the solution of which is simple.

Larry My explanation of uniqueness and Northwoods stopped short of where it should have stopped. Kennedy was pushing the CIA out and making way for the military to take over covert CIA operations which is common knowledge. The JCS was complying with Kennedy's desire to move in a different direction. Northwoods is an attempt on the part of the JCS to get into covert operations. The uniqueness of Northwoods is the military engaging in covert operations on US soil. As far as needing Kennedy's signature, the military needed to protect themselves. If anything went wrong, the generals could say, ... hey it's not my fault I'm just following orders.

Larry Some operations of Veciana did not have the approval of JFK. Many operations did have his approval but I've never seen a document that has JFK's signature approving any operation by the CIA. That doesn't mean that aren't any, it may mean that these documents are hidden away somewhere. I would guess that someone's book includes a document but I'm not sure.Or it could mean all the CIA needed was a nod by JFK and they would run with it. If as you say these types of operations, operations that Northwoods would fall under, were routine and not unique why is JFK's signature needed. It seems that Northwoods was regarded by the JCS as different from the normal CIA anti - Cuban operations. I think the main reason the JCS needed JFK's signature was this was an attempt by the JCS to get approval for covert operations against Cuba. In that respect it was unique. They were moving in on the CIA's territory because they felt the CIA had botched things up and the CIA's attempts to entice the USA into war with Cuba were a failure.

Larry Some actions of Northwoods Simulate attack on Guantanamo, by starting fires ( incendiary bombs ???), lobbing mortars, causing explosion of ammo storage sites - casualties among US personnel likely Sink Cuban refugee boat, real or simulate Plastic bombs in Miami, Wash DC - how can casualties among innocent Americans be avoided If Kennedy had signed the document, he was on the hook. Once the document was signed, the joint chiefs of staff was blameless. You can bet they would have done anything, including blowing up Glenn's ship or cause massive casualties among innocent Americans to start a war with Cuba.Since Russia up the that point had not signed a treaty with Castro to protect the island from attack, the joint chiefs of staff said they only had a few months to employ Northwoods before the Russians and Cuba signed a treaty.

Douglas Thanks Apparently the money came from a European bank. I assumed the money came from Texas oilmen. It makes sense since it's difficult to trace. If a large amount of money is moved from an american bank the government will know. I would assume banking regulations in Europe are different.

Larry Don't forget, one of the proposals was to blow up an airplane in which travelled astronaut John Glenn. No mention of mocks. It was Eisenhower who set the tone for Operation Northwoods. He said he wanted to get rid of Castro but Castro hadn't given him a pretext for taking him out. I believe the Kennedy assassination was Operation Northwoods. Kill an american president, blame it on Cuba, and then pulverize them. It would have worked but LBJ stopped it.

Michael BBN used an oscilloscope and a digital computer to determine if the sounds on the Dictabelt were shots. An oscilloscope shows sound in the form of a wave. If memory serves me BBN came up with 15 suspects from the oscilloscope which could be gunshots. There weren't fifteen bullets fired at Kennedy so BBN had to determine which of the wave forms depicted shots and which were other sounds. BBN then applied a set of screening criteria that would separate the gunfire from sounds that weren't gunfire. They came up with six sounds that met their criteria. From these six BBN rejected one sound, the first sound, because it did not have the required 10/11 peaks on the wave form. It showed echoes (peaks) but did not meet the criteria completely. It showed other characteristics to indicate that it might be a shot but the sound was attenuated. So they were left with 5 shots and that's what they gave the HSCA. That in a nutshell is what BBN did and what they found on the Dictabelt.

David VP Thanks Dave. I don't think anyone lied about the mauser. A mistake was made by the officers because the rifle found was an Italian Carcano.

David VP Please provide the entire article. I would like to find out who authored the piece, where the interview took place and the date of the interview.

David VP Weitzman wasn't mentioned. Craig of course backed up Weitzman's claim of the mauser. To balance out the report we need to have Weitzman in there. The LA Free Press was never a real newspaper. The LA Free Press was a useful tool of the the community but it was not a national type newspaper like the LA Times. Their news was more local with a lot of underground news, anti war type stuff. They eventually went out of business in the late seventies. I wouldn't turn to the LA Free Press for national news and therefore do not put much credibility in their reporting about a national event.

David VP Are`you joking. The LA Free Press? The perfect model for truth. Now if it was written in the LA Times I might take notice. But the LA Free Press, get outta here.

Eddy The acoustics investigation provided valid evidence. It was the key element in the`HSCA conclusion in 1979 that Kennedy's death was probably the result of a conspiracy. The lead investigator wanted to do more testing but the US government said no probably because the government did not budget for the new testing. BBN wanted more shooter sites. BBN used only two shooter sites, the TSBD southeast sixth floor window and a location about 15 feet west from the corner of the picket fence on the grassy knoll for their initial investigation. If a private source came forth with money and the city of Dallas gave the okay for new testing a new investigation is doable. W/O money we are stuck in limbo.

Steve Thanks for the interview. From reading the interview, Ganser, whether he knew it or not made a strong case for Gladio = Northwoods. Northwoods false flag = kill the american president and blame it on Cuba. If not for Johnson, the US military pulverises Cuba and a nuclear exchange between the US and Russia ensues. In Nov/Dec 1963 US generals said the US would win a nuclear exchange with Russia. There is definitely a link between Northwoods and the assassination of JFK.

Paul You said Fonzi should have mentioned assassination of Castro as the reason for the Veciana sighting of Oswald with Phillips. I'm talking about speculating on that meeting only. As far as Fonzi is concerned the evidence he uncovered led him to his CIA did it theory ... (1) Veciana told Fonzi he saw Oswald with Phillips (2) The CIA failed to mention Veciana attack on Cuba but disclosed their attacks on Cuba with the mafia to the Church committee. Paul Hoch speculated that the CIA failed to mention the Veciana attack because the CIA did not want to disclose their relationship with Veciana which convinced Fonzi that the Veciana operation against Cuba was sanctioned and financed by the CIA. In the nutshell, that is basically why Fonzi started on the CIA did it theory.

David VP Allen Dulles said he would expect one of his agents to lie under oath if it was necessary. The CIA is in the business of deception. Changing witness testimony is part of that deception. What don't you understand about the word deception? Craig always said the rifle was a German mauser. He never changed his testimony on the rifle. If you have a document to the contrary his statement about the rifle has been altered.

Paul Veciana says Oswald didn't stay long when Veciana walked up to Phillips and Oswald. Phillips didn't introduce Veciana to Oswald. It's possible Phillips wanted Veciana and Oswald to work together on an operation at a future date. Anything Fonzi may have said about the purpose of the Veciana/Oswald meeting would have been speculative (obvious interpretation?????). Phillips didn't provide the reason for the meeting and Veciana did not ask. Criticizing Fonzi for not speculating doesn't make sense.

Paul You said paper thin argument. You are being gracious. It's not paper thin, it's zero. He really has no argument.

Jim You are so right. Testimony was altered from many witnesses and if the FBI couldn't persuade a witness to testify in favor of the FBI's version the witness was simply eliminated. I don't think it's helpfull to our cause to put much trust in witness testimony. After a witness completed his testimony before the Warren Commission he/she was asked to sign their testimony. If they noticed later that their testimony had been altered and complained to the commission about it, the lawyer for the commission said, ... hey you signed your testimony you can't change it now. Yet there are many researchers and LN's who religiously believe witness testimony as gospel. We must remember that the CIA is in the business of deception. They even admit it. If anyone who is familiar with the CIA and the WC believes in the veracity of witness testimony with regard to the WC hearings they are living in fantasyland. If some is tainted, you can't trust any of it.

Tracy Upon hearing for the first that Veciana met Bishop in the company of Oswald in Dallas Sept 1963, Fonzi said the following ... As much as the substance of the information itself, it was absolutely coincidental and credible way it came up, which so stunned me. First impressions are inherently circumstancial judgments, but I had no doubt then - and have none now - that Veciana was simply and truthfully revealing what he knew.

Tracy So now Veciana wants to share the blame not stay out of jail. So he lied. Does that make sense to you.

Tracy Okay so he wanted Fonzi to help him so he started talking. If you want help to stay out of jail you do not start by lying to the man who you think can help you. You say that he was trying to hide the fact that he was part of anti Cuba activities. We have already discussed that and it is not credible since you realized the folly of your reasoning. You seem to be jumping all over th place and it is difficult to keep up with you.

Tracy Your right Veciana has not been prosecuted for his actions in Cuba. No one has. And that nullifies your reason for Veciana lying about Phillips. He did not lie because there was no need to lie.

Tracy Veciana is not that dumb. He is responsible for his actions and must answer for what he did. He is still on the hook and lying about David Phillips will not get him off.

Tracy The CIA has admitted they tried to kill Castro. Veciana has admitted he was part of that and other anti Castro activities. So how does lying about Bishop, David Phillips, keep him from being presecuted for his anti Castro activities.

Glenn There may have been multiple people on the sixth floor, but there was only one shooter. Only one rifle. The plotters would never leave a rifle in a box and walk off to recover it later. Too much risk. Any unknown male, client or otherwise, seen in the building would arouse suspicion. The plotters would devise a plan which includes no unknown men in the building during and immediately after the shooting. Except for the shooters and his spotters the plotters created a plan using men who worked in the building. If you had been tasked with the planning maybe you would have left unknown men in the building but the guys who planned the Kennedy assassination did not. Now there could have been unknown men who worked for the plotters seen in the building after the shooting but the plotters would plan to minimize risk. Michael A bunch of people say the shots came from the TSBD. David Cannot get into Armstrong and his Two Oswald theory. Another thread maybe. Jeremy A flight plan for the transport must be submitted. Headed to Dallas to pick up a shooter in the Kennedy assassination. A transport out of Wash DC makes perfect sense, Hide the true nature of the flight. As far as it arousing suspicion landing where it landed, after the assassination anything would have made sense. A huge plane was needed to fly that guy to South America asap.