W. Niederhut

Sandy, Well, obviously, we must agree to disagree on this one. Gaza is one of the most densely populated places on earth, and 1 million of its 2.3 million citizens are children. The massive bombardment (over 25,000 tons of bombs) and demolition of residential buildings, schools, and hospitals, isn't "collateral damage," in any meaningful definition of the term. It's "collective punishment" of a denigrated civilian population-- a war crime. Netanyahu's goal is, apparently, to make Gaza uninhabitable, and ethnically cleanse the area of indigenous Palestinians.

I saw this article at Axios this morning. Inside JFK's historic meeting with Latino leaders one day before his murder (axios.com)

I decided over the weekend that I don't want to quarrel with my fellow liberals about U.S. foreign policy. IMO, it's more important for those of us who believe in liberal democracy to remain united, in the face of rising foreign and domestic fascism. But, I do have a question about definitions of "collateral damage" during military ops. As I understand it, definitions of "collateral damage" are based on military Rules of Engagement-- which may vary from war to war, and even from one Presidential administration to another. As an example, I recall reading in 2017 that the Trump administration killed more civilians in eight months (in Iraq, Syria, Yemen, and Afghanistan) than the Obama administration had killed in eight years-- due to Trump's alterations of U.S. Rules of Engagement. Trump had even, reportedly, told his military advisors to kill family members--including women and children-- of alleged "terrorists." General Mattis said, "No, Mr. President, we don't do that," as I recall. As for the latest Gaza bombings, is there a meaningful sense in which this could be construed as "collateral damage?" I suppose that we-- like Bill Maher-- could define the bombing of residential buildings, schools, and hospitals as "collateral damage" if we defined all of these structures as military targets. In a sense, it's Hiroshima type "logic." Blow up everything. Having Vanquished Gaza's Hospitals, Israel Turns to bombing Schools, Killing Dozens (juancole.com)

Michaeleen, Question for you and the forum. Are people allowed to re-post copyrighted material on this forum for "educational" purposes?

Well, the article presents a lot of interesting details about the legacy of the JFK assassination and Dallas's conservative, right-wing culture but, unfortunately, it is also quite misleading about the fact that JFK was assassinated by a carefully orchestrated conspiracy. In fact, the author directly links "conspiracy theories" with Dallas's kooky, right-wing culture-- reinforcing the old CIA propaganda trope that conspiracy theories are monolithic and "kooky." And, needless to say, the general drift of the article is to deflect public attention away from the conspirators in the U.S. government who actually murdered JFK.

Israel hasn't taken any hostages, as Matt points out. Instead, they've simply opted to bury Palestinian bodies under piles of rubble. Thousands of bodies lie buried in rubble in Gaza. Families dig to retrieve them, often by hand apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-buried-rubble-airstrikes-89c0e8d0934d573d94d2fbfeba44d933 Updated 1:45 PM EST, November 17, 2023 DEIR AL-BALAH, Gaza Strip (AP) — The wreckage goes on for block after devastated block. The smell is sickening. Every day, hundreds of people claw through tons of rubble with shovels and iron bars and their bare hands. They are looking for the bodies of their children. Their parents. Their neighbors. All of them killed in Israeli missile strikes. The corpses are there, somewhere in the endless acres of destruction. More than five weeks into Israel’s war against Hamas, some streets are more like graveyards. Officials in Gaza say they don’t have the equipment, manpower or fuel to search properly for the living, let alone the dead. Israel says its strikes target fighters and the infrastructure of Hamas, the militant group behind the deadly Oct. 7 attack that killed about 1,200 people in Israel. Hamas often operates in residential areas, and Israel accuses it of using the civilian population as human shields, though it does not explain specific targeting reasons for most strikes.

Sandy, 1) Netanyahu recently cited the genocidal Bible verse from 1 Samuel in which the Israelites were commanded by Yahweh to wipe out the Amaleks. Netanyahu declares a Holy War of Annihilation on Civilians of Gaza, Citing the Bible (juancole.com) 2) In his recent criticism of Obama, Bill Maher inaccurately referred to Israel's serious war crimes in Gaza as "collateral damage." The deliberate bombing of residential apartment buildings, schools, and hospitals-- and the mass murder of 11,000 Palestinians, including 4,000 children-- is not "collateral damage." It's a war crime. Maher is denying Netanyahu's war crimes. Bill Maher slams Obama's 'moral equivalency' on Israel-Hamas (nypost.com)

Matt, You need to read the scholarly references here that Douglas Caddy and I have posted during the past month-- including Ron Unz's debunking of the "beheaded babies" propaganda (above.) Netanyahu has now killed more than 4,000 children in Gaza, while bombing residential apartment buildings, schools, and numerous hospitals and healthcare facilities. These are blatant war crimes. Your modus operandi is to simply ignore the damning facts, while falsely accusing honest critics of Netanyahu's war crimes of "anti-Semitism." This is a common fallacy in the U.S. and Europe right now-- on Fox News, and even at Harvard and other universities. Basically, you're denying genocide and ethnic cleansing-- despite the fact that Netanyahu and some of his Likud Party associates have openly called for ethnic cleansing of Gaza and the West Bank. I noticed that you also completely ignored my reference (above) about Netanyahu's history of using Hamas to bolster his popularity and sabotage a two-state solution. Opinion | Israel, Gaza, and International Law:A Humanitarian Crisis Roils the Academy | Common Dreams

Matt, Please stop posting nonsense. I have condemned the Hamas attacks on Israel from the beginning. In recent weeks I have posted a series of accurate references about Netanyahu's serious war crimes in Gaza, and about my disappointment with Biden and Blinken for failing to prevent Netanyahu's war crimes-- including their veto of a UN cease-fire resolution. As for Netanyahu and Hamas, I suggest that you do some remedial reading about their perverse, longstanding alliance. Perhaps you are unaware that Netanyahu has promoted Hamas for years, in order to prevent the creation of a functional, unified Palestinian authority, and sabotage a two-state solution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. How Netanyahu's Hamas policy came back to haunt him — and Israel | CBC News

Matt, If your frontal lobes are still sufficiently functional to maintain focus on relevant facts, I can suggest a number of scholarly books about the history of Palestine and Israel, for your remedial education. Meanwhile, your insinuation that I am "denying the Hamas attacks," or that I "don't care for Israel" is nonsense-- and, frankly, slanderous. You missed the point of my comments about the October 7th attacks and truth being a casualty of war. You also seem to have difficulty understanding that it's possible to be critical of Israel's LIkud Party hawks-- like Netanyahu, Ariel Sharon, and Menachem Begin, for instance -- without condoning Islamic violence against Israel. Nor is criticism of Israeli Likud Party hawks necessarily "anti-Semitic." Many Jewish people are critical of Netanyahu. One of the most accurate recent comments on the subject by an American statesman-- and fellow Harvardian-- was Barack Obama's statement that, "No one has clean hands," in the current Israeli-Palestinian crisis. I share Obama's opinion, as do many informed scholars. Yet, even Obama has been attacked by some Israeli-Americans in the media for having the audacity to make this honest, accurate statement. (Jimmy Carter has also been attacked for his understated attempts to advocate for an equitable two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.) Is Obama correct, or do Israel's Likud Party hawks have 'clean hands," in your opinion? Are you familiar with Menachem Begin's role in the bombing of the King David Hotel? How clean were those 96 Irgun terrorist murders? How "clean" was the Lavon Affair? How clean were Ariel Sharon's mass murders of civilians? How clean is Netanyahu's massacre of women and children in Gaza?

Matt, Do you have a good source about these Hamas "bombs?" As Aeschylus said, "Truth is the first casualty of war." It's difficult to know precisely what has been happening over there since October 6th-- aside from the internationally circulated videos and photos of Gaza being bombed back to the Stone Age. The initial Israeli reports about Hamas beheading babies have been debunked. And, evidently, some of the Israelis killed on October 7th were torched by IDF Hellfire missiles. * The strangest thing of all is that the world's pre-eminent intelligence agency failed to prevent the October 7th attacks-- which have subsequently served as a pretext for Netanyahu's ethnic cleansing of Gaza. Surely, the Mossad must have had intelligence agents infiltrating Hamas in Gaza. It's a head scratcher. ^ American Pravda: War Crimes and Atrocity-Hoaxes in the Israel/Gaza Conflict, by Ron Unz - The Unz Review

Matt, What a disingenuous post by Luis Zanger. He's using a video of moral outrage about Netanyahu's war crimes in Gaza to ridicule a distraught peace protester. It's like a glib Spiro Agnew comment after the Kent State Massacre. Also, do you and Zanger consider moral indignation about Netanyahu's war crimes in Gaza, "anti-Semitic?" That's the bogus, oft-repeated Fox News trope-of-the-month-- where Gaza peace protesters are also referred to as, "Hamas supporters." Geez... Who is condoning Hamas violence or condemning Jewish people? In contrast, many Netanyahu/Likud Party critics, including Bernie Sanders, Medea Benjamin, Norman Soloman, et.al., are Jewish. The truth is that Netanyahu has been openly engaged in ethnic cleansing-- indiscriminately bombing residential neighborhoods, schools, and hospitals in Gaza, while massacring Palestinian women and children. These are obvious war crimes. Let's not join Rupert Murdoch and Bill Maher in denying war crimes here at the Education Forum. This forum is a rare place in our society where people endeavor to tell the truth.

This is a serious problem in the U.S. and Europe right now-- silencing peace protesters and critics of Netanyahu's war crimes in Gaza.* Imagine if this had happened to critics of Milosevic and Karadzic after the Srebrenica Massacre. Columbia University Professor Jeffrey Sachs has called for the UN, U.S., and NATO to impose peace in Palestine, and set limits on the extremists on both sides who have persistently sabotaged a just, two-state solution. Instead, Biden has responded to Netanyahu's war crimes by shipping more bombs to Bibi. My question. If we intervened against Milosevic to prevent tribal genocide in Bosnia and Kosovo, why can't we intervene against Netanyahu to prevent tribal genocide in Palestine? What's the difference? In both cases, a government was supporting military attacks on Muslim civilians. This is a variation on my criticism of Biden and Blinken for vetoing the UN resolution for a Gaza cease-fire. * 'Price of Defending Apartheid': AIPAC Set to Spend $100 Million Against Squad (commondreams.org)

Jeffrey Sachs op-ed today... Opinion | A Framework for Peace in Israel and Palestine | Common Dreams

Here's some rock 'n roll relief for those who are depressed about the intractable Arab-Israeli violence. It's one of my favorite roller blading/work out songs of the past 40 years, with a video filmed in the Lone Star State.

Sandy, Your argument is predicated on the notion that the UN, the U.S., NATO, and the international community have no power to intervene to stop Netanyahu's war crimes in Gaza-- in the same way that they intervened against Belgrade in Bosnia and Kosovo. In other words, the right-wing Israeli Likud Party tail is wagging the American dog, and American politicians are afraid to cross AIPAC-- the powerful American-Israeli Political Action Committee. This week AIPAC has even announced plans to attack and defeat members of Congress who have dared to criticize Netanyahu. Israel Lobby’s Disastrous Domination (consortiumnews.com) Ariel Sharon once boasted that U.S. politicians would never dare to cross the Israeli government. He was correct. Therein lies the problem. Even Jimmy Carter was attacked as "anti-Semitic" for his low-key efforts to advocate for a fair two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Reagan, the Bushes, and Obama scarcely tried. Then Trump was bribed to move the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem and recognize Israel's seizure of the Golan Heights. Whatever happened to the historic U.S./UN role in mediating the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? JFK was the last POTUS who tried. Somewhere along the line, U.S. Presidents turned their backs on the Palestinian people-- not for geopolitically sound, "strategic" reasons, as you imagine, but because it was politically expedient, at home. Meanwhile, it looks like some honest State Department officials agree with Douglas Caddy. Internal State Dept. memo blasts Biden, U.S. policy on Israel-Hamas war (axios.com)

Sandy, Biden's embrace of Netanyahu was an appropriate response to the October 7th Hamas attacks on Israeli citizens. But, as I said from the beginning, Biden and Blinken should have done more to prevent Netanyahu's massive retaliatory bombing of Gaza's 2.3 million civilians. Instead, the Biden administration vetoed the UN resolution calling for a halt to the bombing of Gaza -- while pledging to give Netanyahu even more bombs! Aside from the ethical issue of complicity in war crimes, how is enabling the Gaza bombing strategically sound for the U.S.? On the contrary, it has damaged our fragile alliances with the Islamic world. In consequence, our military bases in Iraq and Syria have been attacked, and a mob tried to burn down the U.S. embassy in Beirut.

Geez, Sandy, talk about pretzel logic and Orwellian Double Speak. With all due respect, this lady's putative defense of Biden green-lighting the bombing of Gaza civilians makes no sense. In fact, it's gibberish. Her first argument is that historic anti-Semitism somehow justifies Israeli war crimes against Palestinians. We could use that "logic" to justify Chivington's Sand Creek Massacre. Her second argument is that Bibi and Biden are upholding "international norms." Huh? Is Netanyahu's relentless bombing of non-combatant civilians-- including women and children-- in Gaza an example of Israel upholding, "the international norms crafted over decades since World War II, norms that allowed the world to make progress in preserving peace and advancing democracy?"

Incredible. The Saudis have been financing a proxy war against Assad's Alawite regime for the past decade. Now Assad and Erdogan are in Saudi Arabia. Israel's bombing of Gaza is uniting bitter enemies in the Islamic world.

Mike Johnson Is In Paris as Shutdown Looms November 10, 2023 at 10:15 am EST By Taegan Goddard Speaker Mike Johnson (R-LA), who sent the House home early despite a government shutdown looming next week, will speak at a gathering of right-wing leaders in Paris this weekend.

Dear Congress: Your Resolution against Rashida Tlaib is Delusional, full of Fake History and Falsehoods. Here's Why. (juancole.com)

I suspected that Ben Cole would eventually use this RFK, Jr. thread to start MAGA spamming the forum again-- as he did on the 56 Years thread, and on his numerous, redundant "Biden snuff job" threads here on the JFKA board. Ben has stubbornly refused to post his anti-Biden MAGA spam at the MAGA Water Cooler-- after the 56 Years thread was finally shut down by the mods. He doesn't want to be exiled to a lonely MAGA echo chamber. At least Ben hasn't resumed re-posting his redundant tropes about Trump's seditious J6 mob attack on Congress being a mere "scrum."

The outrageous behavior that Trump gets away with never ceases to amaze me. He's like a petulant, conduct-disordered 5th grader who constantly breaks the rules and tests limits. Two anecdotes about Trump's childhood (and adult) character pathology come to mind. According to his former elementary school classmates, young Donald would never admit that he had done something wrong-- even when it was painfully obvious to his teachers and peers. And he once punched his music teacher in the eye, after shouting that his music teacher, "(didn't) know anything about music." Very similar, in a sense, to Trump's latest inaccurate, insulting attacks on Judge Engoron.

Indeed, Leslie, and it is also a fact that RFK, Jr. has assiduously avoided criticizing Donald Trump-- the sociopath who not only perpetrated the Big Lie that the 2020 U.S. election was stolen, but conspired to organize slates of False Electors in several swing states, and incited a violent mob to obstruct the Congressional certification of Biden's election on January 6th. Those Trump crimes against American democracy are serious and unprecedented. No meritorious candidate for public office in the U.S.-- including RFK, Jr.-- should deny or remain silent about Trump's historic crimes. Our democracy and Constitution are betrayed by such silence. And, shockingly, a high percentage of Trump's fans today still believe his Big Lie about the 2020 election, and also believe that violence against the U.S. government is justified. It's a proto-fascist American crisis. Coincidentally, the biggest RFK, Jr. booster on this forum is a guy who has repeatedly denied that Trump engaged in a seditious conspiracy to overturn the 2020 election, while calling Trump's violent J6 mob attack on Congress a "scrum."