W. Niederhut

Nice fold. You, obviously, didn't read Prokop's article, or, if you did, you didn't understand it. It's extremely detailed and, essentially, unanswerable-- a knock out punch. I knew something was seriously wrong with Gerth when I first read his lengthy CJR article claiming that Russiagate was a hoax. At the time, I didn't know that Gerth had also been involved in promoting the phony Republican Whitewater pseudo-scandal to undermine Bill Clinton's Presidency.

Ben, Total cop out. Please dispense with the ad hominem non-rebuttal and respond to Prokop's detailed critique of Gerth's bogus CJR article. You, of all people, need to read Prokop's excellent analysis. Should I have posted Prokop's article in large print, as you have done with Gerth's Russiagate denial piece?

Chris, I'm re-posting my question, because it was immediately leap-frogged by Mathew Koch's deflective non sequitur (and ad hominem slur) about 9/11 and the Project for a New American Century. I have noticed that Mathew Koch frequently posts deflective non sequiturs immediately after my posts on this forum, usually in the form of YouTube videos. It's a form of t-r-o-l-l-i-n-g -- to disrupt dialogues. The subject under discussion, at present, is the demolition of the Nordstream pipeline in the context of the U.S. and NATO's response to Putin's invasion of Ukraine. My question about Ploesti has to do with the definition of "terrorism" vs. strategic military sabotage in time of war. 9/11 and the Project for a New America Century is a very important subject, but it has nothing to do with the subject of this debate.

Chris, Using your logic, do you and Paul Rigby consider the Allied bombing of the Ploesti oil fields during WWII to be an act of "terrorism?" Also, how many people were killed in the recent "terrorist" demolition of the Nordstream pipeline? Finally, are you and Paul Rigby troubled by Putin's "terrorist" bombings of residential apartment buildings, railroad stations, and playgrounds in Ukraine?

Not surprised. Apparently, Trump and the MAGAts are also angry about the "woke" Super Bowl last Sunday. MAGA Watched the Super Bowl and Didn’t Like What They Saw – Mother Jones I thought the hazmat suits in the half-time show were lame, but the Breaking Bad commercial was hilarious.

Hail, Brittania... 🤓 Apparently, our British government allies don't share the opinions of Chris Barnard and Paul Rigby about Putin's brutal, lawless invasion of Ukraine. Britain is ratcheting up sanctions against the Kremlin. I was especially surprised to read Chris's opinion (above) that the Nordstream pipeline was sabotaged to benefit non-Russian corporate interests-- rather than as an act of military strategy to de-fund Putin's war machine. Does anyone else really believe that? Putin Is Angry: Ukraine Sanctions Are Hitting the Russian Military Hard - 19FortyFive February 15, 2023

Andrew Prokop has just published a definitive takedown of Jeff Gerth's bogus CJR revisionist history article claiming that Trump's Russiagate scandal was a hoax. I didn't realize that Jeff Gerth was involved years ago in promoting the GOP Whitewater hoax about Bill Clinton. Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Jeff Gerth, and the Trump-Russia revisionists, explained - Vox

John, Huh? There I go again? So now you have taken to imitating Mathew Koch, by quoting Ronald Reagan's 1980 one-liner? I "misrepresented what I said?" Sure thing. You are gallantly "exposing my constant transgressions?" How noble. I nominate your latest post for the Education Forum Ad-Hominem-Projection-of-the-Year Award. As for "gaslighting," it's the diametric opposite of my modus operandi in communicating with people. Aside from the MAGA contingent and the Putin war crime deniers around here, I think most forum members will vouch for that. My focus has always been on discerning and telling the truth about history and current events-- including truths that some people, obviously, don't want to hear.

Mathew, Thanks for sharing the latest MAGA spam blaming Biden for the Ohio train derailment-- a tragic result of Trump deregulating "bomb" trains. It's reminiscent of the Deep Water Horizon eco-disaster on Obama's watch, which resulted from Bush & Cheney's deregulation of deep water drilling standards. It also complements Ben's persistent MAGA spam blaming Biden for Trump's 2020 surrender to the Taliban, and his precipitous post-election withdrawal of U.S. troops from Afghanistan. Notice that Ben also continues to blame Obama for Bush and Cheney's Afghanistan invasion/occupation boondoggle. You and Ben continue to provide a useful "service" to this forum, by keeping us all up-to-date on the GOP/MAGA propaganda of the day-- while ducking references and questions about the contrary evidence. Thanks again.

Have you read Robert Gates' memoir? Obama inherited a militarily-occupied Afghanistan in 2009 that was still quite unstable, and the thinking at the time was that a withdrawal of U.S. and NATO forces would further destabilize the country and the region. Bush and Cheney had carpet-bombed any semblance of an Afghan government into rubble. It's an example of what Colin Powell called the "Pottery Barn Rule" in his efforts to dissuade Bush from invading Iraq in 2003-- "Mr. President, if you break Iraq, you own it." As Gates described, Obama went along, reluctantly, with the advice of the military "experts" and, ultimately, "made the right calls" in Afghanistan. The occupation dragged on. It was one of the few things Obama did as POTUS that greatly disappointed me-- i.e., his (reluctant) acquiescence in the Neocon "War on Terror." Withal, the Trump administration killed more non-combatant civilians in the Middle East during the first eight months of Trump's Presidency than the Obama administration killed in eight years, from 2009-17. And Trump's surrender to the Taliban in February of 2020 and precipitous, post-election withdrawal from Afghanistan in late 2020 and early 2021 resulted in the abrupt collapse of the Afghan government and Army.

No loss for words, John. But words are wasted on people who are determined to misconstrue them. My hunch is that many people who have attempted to converse with you have experienced this particular problem.

Newsflash, Ben. Obama didn't invade Afghanistan. Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld invaded and occupied Afghanistan in 2001-- more than seven years before Obama became POTUS. It was the first phase of their post-9/11 Neocon "Project for a New American Century." As for Trump's surrender to the Taliban in 2020, and his precipitous withdrawal of troops after losing the November 2020 election, (against the advice of his military advisors) see the article I posted for you (above.)

LOL... Meanwhile, isn't Thomas Massie-- the guy who bought his kids AK-47s for Christmas-- one of Mathew Koch's heroes? GOP Rep. Thomas Massie Reintroduces Bill To ‘Terminate’ Department Of Education (msn.com)

John, Let me help you out with your latest misinterpretation. Lesson # 1-- An ad hominem fallacy is an irrelevant comment attacking the person rather than addressing the substance of their arguments. My pointing out how you have persistently misinterpreted my comments about the U.S. and the Russian Federation (above) is not an ad hominem fallacy per se. I didn't call you an intellectually dishonest Irish peater potter. That would have been an ad hominem fallacy. Instead, I pointed out how you have inaccurately characterized my comments about Russia's invasion of Ukraine and the U.S./NATO response to the invasion.

KRUGMAN: Charting the 40-year history of Republicans' attempts to cut Social Security and Medicarewww.nytimes.com/2023/02/13/opinion/columnists/republicans-medicare-social-security.html February 14, 2023First of all, if Republicans had absolutely no desire to make major cuts to America’s main social insurance programs, why would they sunset them — and thus create the risk that they wouldn’t be renewed? As Biden might say, c’mon, man.And then there’s that historical record. Two things have been true ever since 1980. First, Republicans have tried to make deep cuts to Social Security and Medicare every time they thought there might be a political window of opportunity. Second, on each occasion they’ve done exactly what they’re doing now: claiming that Democrats are engaged in smear tactics when they describe G.O.P. plans using exactly the same words Republicans themselves used.So, about that history. It has been widely forgotten, but soon after taking office Ronald Reagan proposed major cuts to Social Security. But he backed down in the face of a political backlash, leading analysts at the Cato Institute to call for a “Leninist” strategy — their word — creating a coalition ready to exploit a future crisis if and when one arrived.To that end, Cato created the Project on Social Security Privatization, calling for replacing Social Security with individual accounts — which George W. Bush tried to do in 2005. By then, however, Cato had quietly renamed its project; “privatization” polled badly, and Bush insisted that it was a “trick word” used to “scare people.”

I'm responding to Paul Rigby's latest salvo of Kremlin disinformazia in red (below.) Paul Rigby wrote; The pipeline had not been commissioned by Berlin at the time of American demolition, thus it was NOT funding Putin's liberation of the Donbass. You can't even get that obvious fact straight. The "liberation of Donbas," eh, Paul? From what, exactly? The region is part of the internationally recognized, sovereign nation of Ukraine. The Russian Federation signed off on acknowledging Ukrainian sovereignty in Budapest. Meanwhile, what sort of "liberty" exists in Putin's fascist police state nowadays? Do tell. Second, the N2 pipelines were not merely or even primarily a Russian project: Germany wanted them as cheap and abundant gas was the basis of its shift to a greener energy future and the foundation of its economic prosperity. America, in conjunction with self-interested Norwegian quislings, has has now destroyed both. Burning natural gas in a shift to greener energy, eh? That makes about as much sense as your other concepts. Third, Putin isn't committing mass murder of civilians in Ukraine: the most remarkable feature of Russian missile attacks on the dual-use infrastructure of the puppet junta are their precision and thus the small number of civilian casualties. How many Ukrainians has Putin murdered during the past 12 months? Any idea? As for Putin's destruction of Ukrainian infrastructure prior to, and during, the past bitter winter, weren't you and John Cotter just lamenting the plight of Western Europeans deprived of Nordstream natural gas in winter? Do you have similar humanitarian concerns for Ukrainians freezing as a result of Putin's infrastructure demolitions? To the contrary, the appalling casualties among Ukrainian forces are the direct responsibility of Washington, which refused to honour binding agreements (Minsk I & II), continued to direct the bombardment of the Donbass, sabotaged negotiations mediated by Turkey and Israel, and continues to throw ill-armed, forcibly conscripted late middle-aged men into battles they can't win. That's rich. I think we all know which side in this brutal Russian invasion has been most notoriously sending poorly-trained and poorly-equipped conscripts and convicts to their deaths. Fouth, what democracy in Ukraine? There was a US-managed, corrupt, oligarchical Russophobic farce post-coup, predicated upon torture, assassination and blackmail. In short, a standard CIA-controlled nightmare. What an absolute joke. The nightmare is Putin's totalitarian police state. I think we are all capable of discerning the difference between Putin's corrupt puppet, Yanukovych, and Zelensky. Fifth, your history of the US' involvement in inter-war Europe conveniently neglects the massive increase in Wall Street and corporative investment in Germany following Hitler's accession to power; and the continued support of US business for the National Socialist war-machine throughout the period 1941-1945. Hardly the case. I have long been a critic of Prescott Bush, Allen Dulles, and other N-a-z-i financiers and sympathizers in the the 1930s-- including your own Duke of Windsor. Fortunately, FDR helped turn the tide in that debacle.

John, Your persistent reading comprehension problems are duly noted. Apparently, you failed to understand my explicit comments (above) condemning the Machiavellianism of the Neocon/Bush/Cheney administration's "War on Terror," and Nixon's bombing of Cambodia. I can't say it any more clearly. As for your (above) comments about alleged U.S. "terrorism" in the (reported) demolition of the Nordstream pipeline, how many casualties resulted from that act of "terrorism?" And, as Kirk asked, do you believe Nordstream was demolished without NATO acquiescence? Next question. How many Ukrainian civilians have been massacred by Putin during the past year? Any idea? And why are you and Paul Rigby refusing to acknowledge Putin's war crimes in Ukraine?

Ben, I'm guessing that you haven't heard about Trump's precipitous withdrawal from Afghanistan in the MAGA-verse.* The MAGA media focused mainly on blaming Joe Biden for Trump's abrupt withdrawal of troops and the resulting collapse of the Afghan Army. The fact that Bush & Cheney's expensive carpet bombing and occupation of Afghanistan was protracted doesn't mean that Trump's abrupt withdrawal after losing the 2020 election wasn't precipitous. See if you can figure that one out. * Trump ordered rapid withdrawal from Afghanistan after election loss (militarytimes.com)

Ben, Trump and Pompeo surrendered to the Taliban at Doha in February of 2020, and Trump insisted on the precipitous withdrawal of almost all U.S. military forces by mid-January of 2021-- prior to Biden's inauguration-- against the advice of his generals. The Afghan Army saw the writing on the wall and commenced surrendering to the Taliban in various regions of the country in 2020. Trump also refused to share military intelligence about Afghanistan ops with Biden's transition team. It was part of Trump's refusal to concede the election. Yet, remarkably, Fox News, Republicans, and the MAGA media have relentlessly blamed our chaotic exodus from Afghanistan on Biden. Biden deserves some blame, but Trump and Pompeo, obviously, set the stage for the debacle. There are some parallels with the smaller scale Bay of Pigs debacle in 1961, occurring at a time when JFK was still in the process of organizing a new Presidential administration. The op had been planned by the Eisenhower and Nixon administration, then blamed on JFK.

Mathew, Is the MAGA media really blaming Biden for this train derailment? Geez... Kind of bizarre, since Biden is the guy who finally signed an infrastructure bill. And who'd have thunk that Elon Musk is now working for Biden? Is that true, or did you read it on Zero Hedge?

Speaking of Elon Musk, he is, evidently, sabotaging the Ukrainian military again. Elon Musk denies Ukrainian military access to Starlink to prevent WWIII - The Jerusalem Post (jpost.com) February 13, 2023

John, I have posted several comments about the Nordstream demolition as an act of war (in which no one was killed.) For example, on page 16 of this lengthy thread, I wrote; My point about Nordstream is that it was a source of funding for Putin's genocidal war in Ukraine. Putin is committing mass murder of civilians in Ukraine with missiles and drones. Is it ethical in this situation to establish a blockade on his military resources and funding? ... Is democracy worth defending? And at what cost? Perhaps Biden and the U.S. military should have left that Nordstream issue up to you Europeans. But we Americans waited too long to intervene against Hitler, and you Europeans paid a high price for our isolationism prior to 1942.

Kirk, George F. Kennan's thesis in his famous monograph, American Diplomacy, was that the U.S. should have been more actively engaged, earlier, in helping Poland, Czechoslovakia, Britain, and France counter the rising threat of N-a-z-i totalitarianism in Europe. America was too "isolationist." Europe paid a price. Where was our terrible American "full spectrum dominance" when Europe really needed it in 1938? By the time the U.S. finally committed troops to fighting the N-a-z-i-s, the Wehrmacht had already occupied most of Europe, and Hitler was bombing cities in the U.K. with V-2 rockets. The obvious threat to Europe at present is Russian Federation totalitarianism, which has been absolutely brutal. The last time I checked, the Russians were bombing cities in Ukraine with missiles and drones. Those who have criticized U.S. engagement in Ukraine here have assiduously avoided any acknowledgement of Putin's war crimes in Ukraine-- attributing criticism of Putin to "racism," "irrationality," and Deep State propaganda, etc. But it is no stretch to say that what we are witnessing in Ukraine is a brutal assault on sovereignty, international law, and democracy by Putin's totalitarian police state. The Russians are even recruiting troops from populations of convicts in Russian prisons. So, the pearl clutching about the U.S./NATO Nordstream sabotage is, in many ways, a criticism of American engagement in helping to defend Europe from militant Russian totalitarianism. Sanctions, embargoes, and economic blockades have long been an aspect of war, haven't they? Should the U.S. have isolated itself from this European catastrophe in Ukraine, as we did from 1938 to 1942, rather than engaging in such outrageous American "full spectrum dominance?"

John, C'mon, man. If you erroneously accuse a logician of being "illogical," should they set the record straight? I can see that you don't really want to educate yourself about the history of former KGB Lt. Col. Vladimir Putin and his totalitarian police state. That history has everything to do with Putin's invasion of Ukraine-- the latest step in his longstanding agenda of re-establishing the former Soviet Union as an FSB-aligned dictatorship. You're also dead wrong in claiming that I have not been a critic of the U.S. military industrial complex-- including the Vietnam War and our phony Neocon "War on Terror" after 9/11. See my (above) comments to Ben on that very subject. I was attacked, as the editor of my school newspaper, for criticizing Nixon's bombing of Cambodia years ago. And I was also attacked in 2003 for criticizing Bush & Cheney's invasion of Iraq. What you fail to understand is that the war crimes of the CIA and U.S. military don't justify the crimes of the KGB/FSB and Russian military. I have been a critic of both. Your irrationality and perverse misinterpretations of my arguments are, indeed, leading nowhere in this "debate" about Putin's horrific invasion of Ukraine.