W. Niederhut

Pat, As a member of the exiled Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia (ROCOR) during the past quarter century, I was privy to some rather shocking things that the general public doesn't know about. These events occurred prior to, during, and after Putin and the FSB seized control of the ROCOR through an internal political coup in 2007. I confess that prior to 2007 I also had a fairly positive opinion of Vladimir Putin, as a judicious leader who had stabilized the Russian Federation after the Yeltsin years. It was only after 2007 that I became aware of Putin's dark side. He wanted to use the ROCOR -- the last remnant of the Russian Orthodox Church that had not been corrupted by the KGB in the 20th century--as a mere outpost for Russian espionage. At the time, he explicitly told ITASS that, "Religion is one of Russia's most important weapons of self defense!" One example of FSB activity in the ROCOR that I only learned about after 2006 was the forcible kidnapping and ouster of our former Chief Hierarch, ROCOR Metropolitan Vitaly, (Ustinov) in New York in 2000. Vitaly's FSB abductors then petitioned for guardianship, on the grounds of mental incompetence, in a case that went all the way to the New York Supreme Court. (They lost the case.) Vitaly had strongly opposed the takeover of the ROCOR by Putin's Moscow Patriarchate. I also know of one other case of a ROCOR bishop who was physically assaulted, threatened, and induced to acquiesce in the MP takeover of the ROCOR. It was a 180 degree flip flop on the issue of ROCOR/MP relations. According to former KGB Lt. Col. Konstantin Preobrazhensky, Putin's seizure of the ROCOR in Western Europe and the U.S. in 2007 was part of a longstanding KGB plot. I posted a review of Prebrazhensky's 2009 book at Amazon.* * KGB/FSB's New Trojan Horse: Americans of Russian Descent: Konstantin Preobrazhensky, Various, Andy Glad Graphic Design: 9780615249087: Amazon.com: Books

Apropos of Premise B (above) Was NATO Expansion Really the Cause of Putin’s Invasion? | American Diplomacy Est 1996 (unc.edu) May 2022

John, At the risk of providing more fodder for another one of Chris B's weird ad hominem Chrissy Fits, let me mention that I was a math and philosophical logic ace in college. Logic is one of my strong suits, and you are misrepresenting my arguments here. It's an odd way to pretend that you are winning a debate. I have already outlined for you guys the basic logical structure of the competing premises on this thread about the primary cause of Putin's invasion of Ukraine. Premise A-- The invasion is the latest step in Putin's longstanding agenda of re-establishing the Soviet Union as a totalitarian, FSB police state. (My opinion.) Premise B-- Putin is a victim of imperialistic U.S./NATO expansion-- i.e., U.S., NATO, and Ukrainian Yahtzees are responsible for Putin's decision to invade and bomb civilians in Ukraine. My comments about right wing Trumpsters-- and, apparently, British Labor Party liberals-- opposing military support for Ukraine are not really relevant to the fundamental debate about Premise A vs. Premise B. Hence, you are misrepresenting my arguments. As for the relationship between Putin's personality and "ruling methods" and his longstanding FSB agenda of re-establishing the Soviet Union, it is the essential thesis of Catherine Belton's analysis in Putin's People. Belton's thesis is that the KGB had anticipated the collapse of the USSR in the 1990s, and that KGB Lt. Col. Putin was a pivotal figure in their longstanding KGB/FSB strategy of re-establishing the Soviet empire as an FSB police state.

John, Your analysis makes no sense. Let me explain why. 1) Trump supporters are authoritarians who have, like Trump, idealized Putin as a fascist strongman. For example, when Putin first invaded Ukraine one year ago, Trump declared that, "Putin is a genius!" Putin has long been a pin up boy for the Trumpsters. So, unlike British liberals, Trump supporters oppose support for Ukraine not because they are pacifists, but because they admire Putin and his quasi-fascist factotum, Donald Trump. 2) Putin's personality and Stalinist/Andropov upbringing are absolutely relevant to his foreign policy-- his agenda of re-establishing the Soviet empire as an imperialist, totalitarian police state. Are you familiar with the histories of Spiridon, Mikhail, and Vlad Putin, Sr.? I would urge you and Paul Rigby to educate yourselves about Putin's 21st century FSB oligarchy by studying Catherine Belton's well-researched history, Putin's People. Also, have you studied the Mitrokhin archives? Solzhenitsyn? Konstantin Preobrazhensky? Set aside the ubiquitous KGB disinformazia in the Western media. Putin and his KGB goons have used it for decades.

Obama's military occupation of Afghanistan, Ben? That's rich. Obama was inaugurated more than 7 years after Bush & Cheney occupied Afghanistan. Did you ever read Robert Gates' memoir on that subject? Gates faulted Obama for dragging his feet on the prosecution of Bush & Cheney's bogus "War on Terror," then reluctantly conceded that "Obama made all of the right calls." Previously, Leon Panetta had advised Obama that, "You can't just say, 'no,' to these guys" ( i.e., the CIA and Joint Chiefs.) JFK was the only POTUS who ever did that, and they shot him in the head. As an anti-war liberal and Obama supporter, I was quite surprised and disappointed by Obama's strange capitulation to the military-industrial complex in the Middle East. As for Putin's Ukrainian debacle, our friends across the pond are, apparently, determined to blame it on Bidenescu, while pretending that Putin is some sort of enlightened autocrat. And, as Americans in the post-Bush/Cheney era, who are we to criticise an imperialist like Putin for invading and bombing a sovereign nation?

They'll have to recruit more convicts.

John, I agree that Craig Murray has written some good stuff about Bush & Cheney's Iraq WMD scam, and their phony Neocon "War on Terror. Murray is a man who has been willing to speak truth to power. I take my hat off to him. I am also surprised to hear about the suppression of Labor Party dissent against support for Ukraine in the U.K. Not o.k. in my book. Here in the states, the opposition to support for Ukraine is coming from far right Trumpsters, including those who tried to obstruct the certification of Biden's election. As for Paul Rigby's bogus, KGB-affiliated "review" of Catherine Belton's book, I would advise people to judge for themselves. And, incidentally, the book has been extensively reviewed at Amazon. Paul has also expressly denied that Russia interfered in our 2016 election on behalf of Trump. He's wrong. And he refers to Biden as, "Bidenescu." Is Paul waiting for Godot, or what, exactly? Some people on this forum are poorly informed, and I daresay naive, about Putin and his FSB. The Russians I know have no illusions about the subject.

Get a clue, Mathew. Helmer is a KGB stooge.

Paul Rigby, Thanks for sharing your bizarre KGB "review" of Catherine Belton's well-documented history of Putin's FSB-aligned oligarchy since 2000-- Putin's People. Do you really not know that your hero, John Helmer, is a KGB-affiliated propagandist in Moscow? https://www.sfgate.com/books/article/Another-Ex-KGB-Spy-Spills-the-Beans-Yuri-B-3041643.php Also, thanks for sharing your bizarre opinion that Russia didn't interfere in our 2016 U.S. election on behalf of Trump. Meanwhile, I'm shocked, shocked to learn that long-time British Moscow correspondent, Catherine Belton, has been a "friend" of the former head of MI6's Russia desk, Christopher Steele. What's the world coming to? Beyond ad hominem KGB pablum, do let us know where Catherine Belton's well-documented history of 21st century Putin-ism gets it wrong. My advice to you is to refrain from posting bogus reviews of books that you haven't read. https://www.amazon.com/Putins-People-Took-Back-Russia/dp/1250787327/ref=sr_1_1?crid=14N4Q0KW7XS1K&keywords=putin's+people+by+catherine+belton&qid=1676137853&sprefix=Putin's+People%2Caps%2C351&sr=8-1

Addendum: As for the JFK/Russia subject, I agree with Maestro Brancato about JFK's admirable efforts to de-escalate the Cold War, but let's recall that JFK also stood up to Russian bullying in the cases of Berlin and the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Chris, I posted a comprehensive rebuttal (above, in red letters) of your confused blather about Nordstream and our U.S./NATO response to Putin's brutal invasion of Ukraine. Your response to my rebuttal was another confused word salad, replete with your usual inaccurate, puerile, ad hominem slurs. It can't be said any more clearly than I said it, (and I know a great deal more about Putin and the modern Russian Federation than you do, based partly on my involvement in the Russian Orthodox Church during the past quarter century.) Did you ever read Catherine Belton's book, Putin's People, as I advised? You and the other Putin apologists on the forum really need to study that book.

Chris, Thanks for tossing out another one of your peculiar, British word salads. We Americans saved you Brits when the Yahtzees were launching V-2 rockets at your cities, and now you think we're the bad guys for helping Ukraine while Putin is launching rockets at their cities, eh? Strange logic.

Well, I'm shocked to see that Ben has completely ignored the latest news about Elon Musk's selective, partisan leakage of the "Twitter Files." Instead of responding to the new information, Ben posted a YouTube video of Michael Schellenberger-- the right wing propagandist who collaborated in Matt Taibbi's partisan coverage of the "Twitter Files." Talk about a MAGA echo chamber... Here's more on Schellenberger's involvement in Elon Musk's "Twitter Files" scam. https://thehill.com/policy/technology/3770483-american-author-michael-shellenberger-releases-twitter-files-part-4/

Nonsense. I, for one, never claimed or believed that the U.S. and NATO weren't involved in sabotaging the Nordstream pipeline. You have also falsely implied that this was done for the sake of U.S. Big Oil profiteers, rather than as a military objective on behalf of defending Ukraine from Russian military atrocities. In the process, you completely glossed over my detailed comments to Chris (above) on the subject of the Nordstream sabotage, in the context of reducing revenue for Putin's brutal invasion and bombing of civilians and infrastructure in Ukraine. Can you, at least, acknowledge the fact that Putin is committing war crimes in Ukraine, and that he has converted the Russian Federation's nascent Yeltsin-era democracy into a totalitarian police state since 2000? That Putin's FSB thugs have routinely murdered journalists and critics? What do you imagine to be the fate of Ukrainians in the event of a Russian military occupation? You seem to have no awareness or concerns about Putin's crimes against humanity and his contempt for democracy. Nor do you Putin apologists understand the dark history of Stalinism, and its relationship with 21st century Putinism.

Ron, This is interesting. I had never heard about Hank Williams' sermonizing alter ego, Luke the Drifter, before. Wikipedia has a good article on the subject. * I bought an anthology of Hank Williams' greatest hits a few years ago, after reading Bob Dylan's comments about Hank Williams in Chronicles, (Dylan has a high opinion of Hank Williams as a songwriter) but none of the songs in my anthology are Luke the Drifter songs recorded from 1950-52. Thanks for sharing this. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hank_Williams_as_Luke_the_Drifter

Chris, I'm responding to your points here (in red.) Chris wrote: Thanks William. You’re making the case that sabotage is ethical in this situation, that you support your country in doing so (Biden/USA). With this ‘greater good’ philosophy of yours which places paramount importance on ensuring Ukraine remains democratic. Is there any cost that would be too great for you to proceed with this righteous stand? My point about Nordstream is that it was a source of funding for Putin's genocidal war in Ukraine. Putin is committing mass murder of civilians in Ukraine with missiles and drones. Is it ethical in this situation to establish a blockade on his military resources and funding? - The destruction of Europe or the world via nuclear exchange? I watched Kubrick’s “Dr Strangelove” the other night, might be worth some others here taking a look. Are you naive enough to imagine that I am not familiar with Dr. Strangelove and Cold War history? As for 2023, is it judicious to allow Putin to successfully engage in nuclear blackmail against Europe-- to simply let the bully have his way? And I noticed that you didn't comment on Putin's threats to nuke the U.K., other than criticizing Boris Johnson. - Causing the pensioners and impoverished peoples of Europe to choose between food and heat this winter or any subsequent winter. How many will die? There was already an economic catastrophe because of ill advised C19 protocols. Is democracy worth defending? And at what cost? Perhaps Biden and the U.S. military should have left that Nordstream issue up to you Europeans. But we Americans waited too long to intervene against Hitler, and you Europeans paid a high price for our isolationism prior to 1942. (Incidentally, my father fought with the U.S. 753rd Tank Battalion for the entire duration of U.S. military action against Hitler-- from North Africa to Sicily, Rome, France, and into Germany at the war's end. Over 70% of his original comrades in his battalion from Fort Hood, Texas were killed in WWII.) - Causing the young boys of Europe to be conscripted for some grotesque NATO Russo war, which could leave the West exposed and China to take military initiative in the East? Is Ukrainian sovereignty and democracy worth defending? And at what cost, in your opinion? The whole concept of destroying the pipeline because it will save democracy is not thought through. Russia just turned east and began trading with new markets, which is why its now outstripping the German and British economies in terms of growth. Thats happening in contrast to MSM telling us repeatedly last year that the sanctions will be ruinous for Russia. Not really. I have read that the Russian economy is on the verge of collapse. Your former profession was as a psychiatrist (or you’re still practicing). What did your studies tell you happens when a tyrant is put in a corner? A better question is, "What happens when bullies get away with bullying people? How did that work out for Neville Chamberlain after Munich? Regarding your nuclear question about threats from Russia. What happens if you put a snake in a corner? It shows you its teeth. I don’t see a nation with a withered military capability doing much else. Putin can withdraw from Ukraine. No one is putting that snake in a corner. Of course Putin is openly contemptuous of “Western Democracy” as he thinks its an illusion. He has referenced the imploding/fall of the west periodically. I wonder how much of that is because the West treats him with contempt? Or because is in decline? The fall of the West? Get real. My grandparents were from Slovenia, and I visited there before the fall of communism in 1990. Like other former communist countries in Eastern Europe, it is far more prosperous in the EU. I can’t agree on your definitions. How can you possible call Ukraine a democracy when it had a Western backed coup d’etat, replacing a democratically elected leader 8 years ago and, has been ethnic cleansing a proportion of its society of Russian heritage since? It tolerates and celebrates actual National Socialist’s/fascists living in the country. How is that an example of democracy? The people vote for the wrong candidate and you remove that leader? Then bomb some democracy into them for 8 years killing 14,000 people and let the National Socialist’s hunt them? Does that sound like Solon will be calling out from his grave in ancient Greece and saying “nice job guys, just what I intended” ? Yanukovych was an utterly corrupt Kremlin puppet. Yulia Timoshenko was a political prisoner. Zelensky was elected by a plurality of voters. He's Jewish. How can his government be considered "National Socialist?" Meanwhile, Putin's Russian Federation has become a fascist, totalitarian police state in the 21st century. Putin even has his own Russian version of the Hitler Youth. He murders journalists and opposition politicians, and his thugs beat up gay rights protesters. He bombs civilian apartment buildings and playgrounds in Ukraine. If you're looking for Yahtzees, Putin is your man. My grandfather, great grandfathers, great uncles all fought too for the allies (Allies). You referencing that is false equivalence. As stated many times earlier in the thread, the US / NATO are the dominant force expanding their sphere of influence, they were already at Russias borders to the west, militarising. False equivalence? My dad was permanently deaf from fighting the N-a-z-i-e-s in a tank battalion from 1943-45 on your behalf. You're welcome. As for NATO, their primary mission in Europe was an outgrowth of Churchill and FDR's Atlantic Charter--to preserve democracy in Europe from Soviet totalitarianism. And our Marshall Plan helped Western Europe rebuild and prosper after it was destroyed by the N-a-z-i-e-s. In contrast, the Soviet Bloc was oppressed and impoverished. What did the U.S.S.R. (or the Russian Federation) ever do for you guys--after defeating the N-a-z-i Wehrmacht? You are mislabeling our defense of democracy in Europe as American imperialism. The NATO/West’s military is enormous, their resources are so vast. They’ve directly broken accords they made and agitated this very situation that could have been avoided. If the truth be known, the USA doesn’t want Europe buying Russian energy, it wants Europe buying US energy and being dependant on the USA. Its hardly hidden this idea agenda, William. I think you're wrong to interpret our defense of Ukrainian sovereignty as an economic agenda. We're spending billions of our own U.S. taxpayer resources to help Ukraine, just as we did to bail you guys out in WWI and WWII. If you guys cared about Ukrainians; you wouldn’t be cheerleading them until their country is ashes and the children are orphans. It doesn’t put Humpty Dumpty back together again or bring back loved ones from the dead by saying “It was Putin’s fault”. As an Orthodox Christian, I am deeply aggrieved by Putin's massacre of both Ukrainians and Russians. This war has been deeply depressing for me. But I mainly blame Putin.

About time. I never understood why the Congressional J6 Committee took a hands off approach to Pence. They did question Marc Short. Pence was, obviously, privy to Trump and Eastman's plot to obstruct the certification of Biden's election.

Chris, Is democracy worth defending? How about sovereignty? Self-determination? Freedom? And at what price? And whose call is it? Should the U.S. have stayed out of this European crisis? Perhaps. In your opinion, should Ukraine and Europeans simply cave to Putin's bullying and nuclear blackmail? Should Britain have refrained from declaring war on Germany after Hitler invaded Poland in 1939?

Well, so much for Matt Taibbi's selective, partisan "coverage" of Elon Musk's "Twitter Files." There ought to be a verb for the selective "leakage" of information for partisan political purposes. Putin did it with hacked Emails during our 2016 election. Trump and Devin Nunes did it with their "Nunes Memo." Bill Barr did it with his redacted Mueller Report. Twitter Kept Entire ‘Database’ of Republican Requests to Censor Posts Elon Musk's "Twitter Files" focus on Democrats, but former administration officials and Twitter employees say Trump’s team and other Republicans routinely demanded posts be taken down Twitter Kept Entire ‘Database’ of Republican Requests to Censor Posts – Rolling Stone February 8, 2023

Chris, I posted my original comments and questions about defending democracy in Europe in response to the outrage about the sabotage of the Nordstream pipeline. First, can we agree that the Russian Federation is, in fact, a totalitarian dictatorship that is waging a brutal war on a sovereign democratic nation in Europe? That Putin has been openly contemptuous of Western democracy? Next, if Putin is funding his brutal war against a sovereign, democratic nation with revenue from the Nordstream pipeline, does it make sense to cut off that source of Russian military funding in time of war? In other words, is democracy in Europe worth defending? My father, uncles, and great uncles, certainly thought so, when they served in the U.S. military in Europe during WWI and WWII.

Chris, The answer to your question about Nordstream is implicit in my (above) question and post. Is democracy worth defending? Also, my initial question wasn't about Boris Johnson. It was about Putin threatening to nuke the U.K. Dr. Fiona Hill claims that Putin also threatened Trump with nukes. You completely sidestepped the issue of Putin's nuclear threats.

R.I.P., Mr. Bacharach... I used to sing this old Bacharach song to my daughters at bedtime, with a ukelele, when they were little girls.

John & Chris, Any thoughts about this recent story in the international news wires? Britain's Boris Johnson says Putin threatened him with missile strike | Reuters Also, for those who are endorsing the narrative blaming NATO, instead of Putin, for Putin's decision to invade and bomb Ukraine, in an apparent quest for neo-Soviet lebensraum... Putin's Own Words Used Against Him in Ukraine War Debate (newsweek.com) Let's not forget that Putin and his FSB apparatchiks have murdered journalists and political opponents, while turning the Russian Federation's Yeltsin-era democracy into a totalitarian police state during the past twenty years. Amazon.com: Putin's People: How the KGB Took Back Russia and Then Took On the West eBook : Belton, Catherine: Kindle Store Putin's Russian media is now a Yahtzee-type organ of state propaganda-- at home and abroad. And Putin, like Stalin, is openly contemptuous of Western democracy, is he not? Do Putin apologists believe that democracy and self-determination in Europe is no longer worth defending? Let's recall that FDR and Churchill's Atlantic Charter-- the origin of the NATO concept-- was rooted in the commitment to defending democracy and self-determination from totalitarianism.

Well, since posting facts for Ben is, obviously, pointless-- like singing to a mule-- I thought I would post a terrific old song for Ben, instead. Ben's favorite word is, "Donk," and the song is The Donkey Serenade, from 1936, based on a melody by the 19th century composer Rudolf Firmi. I used to listen to this recording on one of my mother's old 78 rpm records when I was a boy. Now we have YouTube. It premiered in the 1937 film, The Firefly, featuring the lovely Jeanette MacDonald, and was sung quite brilliantly by the little known Welsh American tenor, Alan Jones. I think Woody Allen included this recording in the soundtrack of his movie, Radio Days, but I'd have to check. Worth a listen.