Benjamin Cole

A remarkable ton of research into the JFKA, presented by RM, who is a talented, smart and dedicated JFKA scholar. I still have reservations about any explanation of the JFKA that involves a large number of witting, pre-event participants.

Egads. I guess the DC establishment will never rest.

Well, there is not a lot of biographical sketches of Eladio Del Valle and Herminio Diaz, and both were dead by 1967. They were Cuban exiles active in the anti-Castro movement, soldiers, so likely they loathed JFK for his perceived betrayal regarding the BoP. You are obviously correct that LBJ also loathed the Kennedys. As stated, you may be correct in your surmising regarding LBJ. My inclination is a JFKA plot must have a very small number of witting, pre-JFKA participants, and likely did not cross organizational lines. The JFKA plotters were people who knew each other for a long time, trusted each other as totally committed, could handle hardware, and perhaps even had been in battle together. They may have been so committed that escaping was not a No. 1 concern. Recall when Puerto Rican nationalists shot up the US Congress. IMHO, the idea JFKA plotters pooling witting resources among several agencies (FBI, Secret Service, Dallas Police, CIA, others, innumerable people in elites as well) pre-JFKA requires too much suspension of disbelief. Post-JFKA complicity became the rule, especially as LHO was tagged as a leftie-loser-loner commie who anti-patriots and Moscow agents wanted to clear. But hey, just IMHO. Others have other viewpoints. The EF-JFKA should be a place where all views are treated civilly.

Is this functional?

RM--"We can agree to disagree on anything. You are a lot more agreeable to disagree with than practically anyone else on this Forum." Same to you. It is a pleasure to have civil discourse with you, even if we are apart on some aspects of the JFKA. BTW, I am not saying you are wrong in your well-constructed arguments. Just that I lean to my own view of a very small op of witting pre-JFKA participants. And hey, just IMHO.

Well, at least we agree on that---the actual JFKA shooters may have been dead soon enough. Eladio Del Valle and Herminio Diaz in fact were both dead by 1967. Del Valle murdered on the same day Ferrie "died." Diaz died in a raid on Cuba (or shortly thereafter). Those are two gunsels I suspect. I admire the work you have done. Top-rate. We disagree, but that is what the EF-JFKA is for. (PS I wish I had gone to UT B-school and not public administration. But youthful idealism....)

Fair enough. Even 20 is too many for my suspension of disbelief standards, but hey, just IMHO. Probably you would add Clifton Carter to the mix. Q: You mention a pair of shooters, TSBD sixth floor. How did they evacuate the building?

RM- If you have strong opinions about LBJ, don't hold back. Texas was a one-party state back then. You know what happens in one-party states and cities....inevitable inclusive corruption. Thought: OK, you say Lansdale was the op-man for a LBJ-initiated JFKA. But what if...Lansdale decided to act of his own volition? So Lansdale, who has security clearance, reasoned he could hatch a plot in Dallas with a couple underlings, mercs, exile types. And he does so. He finds out about LHO, and the half-dollar bill needed to make a connection. Maybe Lansdale was the type who acted on his own, did not need authorization from higher-ups. Lansdale expected to tell LBJ of his feat (indirectly), and be rewarded, post-JFKA. In such a scenario, we again come to a very small number of witting pre-JFKA participants. IMHO, the prerequisite---a very small number of pre-JFKA witting participants---must be met for any plausible explanation of the JFKA. Explanations of the JFKA with dozens of witting participants, observers and say-so'ers pre-JFKA...require too much suspension of disbelief.

Side story: I went to the LBJ School of Public Affairs in the late 1970s. I recognize the 512 area code. Back then there was an interesting schism in the classes. The Texas natives were very proud of their state...but seemed always to regard Texas politics as crooked or worse, and LBJ as part of that. These were smart kids and profs, who knew the local political scene and lore well. People from other parts of the country had high regard for LBJ (I did, for LBJ's civil rights record and because he was a Democrat, who---back then---I thought were the light against the GOP dark). I actually went to the LBJ Ranch once. Back then, hard liquor was served on UT Austin campus to anyone over age 18, and girls went topless at Barton Springs. You think Texas was conservative? Those Texans knew how to have fun.

RM- You may be correct, it was LBJ and the Texas crowd that perped the JFKA, and used Lansdale's mechanics for the job. It is hard to prove a negative---that is, I cannot prove your conclusions are wrong. As I say, you have assembled a solid story. I congratulate you on your solid understanding of the events of 11/22/63. Perhaps the LBJ team piggybacked on a "legitimate" CIA false flag op, already planned for Dallas. It would be nice if the Biden Administration lifted its blackout on the JFK Records, and we might gain deeper insights into the JFKA.

RM-- OK, I read the Covert Action article, and it is very well researched, and written. I give it an "A." Some quibbles 1. The Mac Wallace fingerprints in the TSBD are very controversial. You can actually find the print yourself online and look, and try to get a clear copy. I did this years ago and I recall thinking, "Well, I would not vote guilty if I sat on jury on that evidence." Joan Mellon dismisses the print. Evidently, the fingerprint expert is not certified. 2. LHO cheek nitrate test. It was negative, but he may have fired only one shot, and the building may have been exhaling at the time, meaning LHO received a low dose. LHO may have washed his face at his rooming house or the Texas Theater. In addition, perspiration can erase nitrates, and LHO was running around. Lastly, the test was administered "too late," that is, past the number of hours when such tests are considered viable. LHO was also (I suspect) trained in spy work. He may have put saran wrap or paper on his cheek before firing. 3. I do not believe LHO was Judyth Baker's boyfriend. I suspect she is a fraud. My bottom-line problem with the article is we get all the motives, and suspicious events and activities...and no real evidence of the actual perps and methods. I could not sit on a jury and convict LBJ on the evidence presented in the article. I would say, "This article is great, and makes LBJ a suspect." A guy named John Davis wrote a book in 1989, blaming Carlo Marcello for the JFKA, and he assembled a lot of motives and suspicious events. Same result. There is in EF-JFKA forum a group of people who blame WWII German Nazis for the JFKA, who came to the US under CIA aegis after WWII. Even dismissing a certain "datebook," those guys were certainly dangerous---as were vengeful Cuban exiles, with battlefield experience. My best guess is the number of people involved in the JFKA was very small, less than the number of fingers on an old woodworker's hand. Some were soon dead. None may be alive today. Post-JFKA...a lot of complicity to prevent the truth from coming out.

RO-- Thanks for your comments. I have always left open the possibility that the Cuban exiles/mercs had been leaked info from higher up, such as a password, or dollar-bill half, that would make LHO trust them. If a CIA higher-up was involved, then one could posit that the higher CIA officer was a cat's paw for the powerful vested interests, and so on, that is the Vincent Salandria, Peter Dale Scott narrative. BTW, not that it matters, I have viewed globalist US foreign-military-trade policy as largely representing increasing powerful global corporations, ever since WWII, and sometimes before. The Disney, BlackRock, WalMart, GMs, Goldman Sachs, Microsoft, NBA, NBC-Universal, Morgan Stanley crowd. This goes all the way back to Smedley Butler days. They dominate the Democratic Party, btw. I am not sure Vietnam was ever that important to the globalists, so there is a bit of misfit there. Sen Richard Russell himself was mystified how the topic one day was Cuba, and next day it was Vietnam. And there is still the possibility, perhaps even likelihood, that the JFKA was just a CIA-Miami Station revenge killing for what happened at the BoP, and that is what has been covered up. Interesting topic.

I no longer remember if it was live, or I saw a newsreel at night. I think the latter.

JB- That was a powerful moment. And Ruby was a far more complicated character than an affable nightclub operator. For me, it was watching Gov. Connally get pushed forward by a blow at Z295 and JFK get struck a Z313. That is less than one second. From a lone gunman armed with a single-shot bolt-action rifle? And ye...we still can't seem to get to the actual bottom of the case. I have my favored explanation and the next guy has his.

You have certainly brought up a lot of background on LBJ that fleshes out the picture of who he was. I will read the Covert Magazine article and report back here. I guess it goes w/o saying, it is reprehensible that the current president has overseen a snuff job on the JFK Records, that might illuminate LBJ's role in the JFKA.

RM- I will surely read the Covert Magazine article. Thanks for posting. What I find about all "so-and-so directed the JFKA" angles is they present 100 reasons why Mr So-and-So had motives, and that Mr. So knew people who were capable of the JFKA. Then...the trail fades. The best leads, IMHO, go back to the Miami station of the CIA, and related mercs, and Cuban exiles, US military operatives, and anyone connected to the Bay of Pigs. Larry Hancock did a lot of serious work regarding people who forecast the JFKA, and they all were linked back to the Miami/Bay of Pigs people. Of course, JFK was the target of an assassination plot in Miami. And even Larry Hancock says he has not nailed down the JFKA. The thing of it is, LBJ did not seem well-connected into the CIA. He was a big domestic guy in his years in DC. It is true, Veep LBJ was being briefed on Vietnam, and John Newman says LBJ was actually getting a truer story on Vietnam than JFK. It is a fascinating bit of history that had the JFKA not happened, and the LIFE mag story on LBJ printed, he likely would have been bumped off the ticket. Maybe worse. LBJ had motives up the wazoo. But the BoP people not only had motives, but a burning desire for (an imagined) revenge. And they knew how to handle hardware. Again I will read the Covert Magazine article. But, as usual, I suspect a very small actual pre-JFKA plot. Like maybe three people.

You can disagree with Gil Jesus, and that is fine. We all have points of view. But Gil Jesus is doing what a defense counsel (embedded with the WC) should have done in 1963-4: Examine evidence with a gimlet, skeptical eye. Sometimes I disagree with Jesus (rarely). So what? He is doing the right thing, a review of the evidence.

From Jeff Morley's Substack: Congressman Renews Call for Genuine Transparency in the JFK Files Rep. Steve Cohen connects ongoing government secrecy to rising public mistrust CHAD NAGLE FEB 27, 2024 Rep. Steve Cohen (D-Tenn.) chairs the Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights and Civil Justice of the House Judiciary Committee. He represents the 9th district in Shelby and Tipton Counties, including the city of Memphis. (Credit: Greg Nash) In a letter to President Joe Biden, Congressman Steve Cohen of Tennessee has renewed his call for the release of the remaining withheld files related to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. The website of Rep. Cohen, the lone Democrat in the Volunteer State’s congressional delegation, announced the letter in a press release on Friday, Feb. 23. Noting the enduring public interest in the mystery surrounding JFK’s death, he cited the popularity of recent hit podcast “Who Killed JFK?,” hosted by filmmaker Rob Reiner and news personality Soledad O’Brien, as well as the sensational revelation of former Secret Service Agent Paul Landis that he found a bullet in the presidential limousine at Parkland Hospital (albeit, Rep. Cohen says erroneously that it was on the floor of the car). Rep. Cohen is among the most activist members of Congress on the issue of full disclosure in the JFK files. In November 2017, his office issued a statement noting that, in postponing release of the remaining files in the JFK Collection at the National Archives, President Donald Trump had “failed to comply” with the JFK Records Act, which was passed unanimously by Congress in 1992 and set a deadline for release of Oct. 26, 2017. Together with other members of the House, Cohen addressed several letters of appeal on the subject, several co-signed with other members of Congress, including: In October 2021, to President Biden, noting “that the majority of Americans, across demographic groups, do not believe the official narrative.” In November 2021, to President Biden, saying it was “unacceptable to use the pandemic as a reason to further delay the release of these documents.” In March 2022, seeking a meeting with “the appropriate Executive Branch official with knowledge and relevant information of the decision to postpone the release of the remaining records.” In October 2022, to the chairman of the Public Interest Declassification Board (PIDB), noting that continuing secrecy had “furthered public skepticism regarding the facts of the assassination, with nearly 61 percent of Americans in 2017 believing there to have been a conspiracy in President Kennedy’s murder.” Excerpt from a letter to President Biden, co-signed by Representatives Steve Cohen, Anna Eshoo, Jim McGovern, Sara Jacobs, and Joe Neguse, on Oct. 7, 2021. In November 2022, Cohen became one of the first guests interviewed on the JFK Facts Podcast, and the following month, he publicly expressed disappointment that the most recent declassification of documents – on Dec. 15, 2022 – was only “partial.” His most recent statement notes that “many Americans have become distrustful of the federal government” and draws a link between this distrust and continued secrecy over JFK’s murder. He has also opined that the ongoing policy of concealment has contributed to the rise of irresponsible conspiracy theories in American political discourse. Quoting late Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis that “sunlight is the best disinfectant,” Rep. Cohen writes: Congressman Cohen serves on the House Judiciary Committee, one of six committees to have been sent H. R. 637 – the Justice for Kennedy Act – in January 2023. The bill calls for immediate release of all assassination related files held by six federal agencies (including the Internal Revenue Service) within 30 days of passage. Introduced by a Republican, David Schweikert of Arizona, H. R. 637 has so far received no co-sponsorship offers from any House members on the Democratic side of the aisle.

Yes, but that is not exactly my question. Have experienced forensic pathologists ever seen a bullet path that they knew passed through the body, but when they probed it, they could not get the probe to follow the path? That is what is said to have happened with JFK's body, although we know the autopsy was conducted by unexperienced people, certainly in comparison to working experts.

A soldier on a battlefield, firing a single-shot bolt action rifle "at an enemy position" might indeed fire rapidly. Along with his fellow soldiers, he might be directing fire at a location perhaps 50 feet wide, or maybe even laying down "suppression" fire. Firing a single-shot bolt-action rifle at a moving target---that, JFK in a traveling limo---is a different matter. One must fire, work the bolt---and then carefully re-aim. JFK's assassin was firing at a moving target. In addition, my read on the Z film, is Gov. Connally is struck about Z-295 and JFK at Z-312. That is one second apart. That is not enough time for the both shots to have been fired by a lone gunman armed with a single-shot bolt action rifle.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a42271329/jfk-assassination-cia-documents-released/ I missed this one, just saw it today, and we should give credit to those few journalists who actually do a good job in the JFK Records Act. Not a lot of meat to it, but at least a recognition the American public had been duped. "On Thursday, the National Archives released what they say are the last documents in their possession related to the assassination of John F. Kennedy. This was trumpeted as the final fulfillment of the president's order to come clean. Except, as we all have come to know over several decades, that doesn't mean we know everything or that we have all the information the U.S. government has about the assassination."

Thanks David

Stu- You may politicize this post if you wish. I say nothing about RFK2's stances on a wide variety of issues. I say only that The Daily Beast (and many other publications) have chosen to ridicule RFK2's stance on the JFKA. On that topic alone---the JFKA---I defend RFK2 as having perceptive viewpoints. Indeed, I think RFK2's views on the JFKA are in the mainstream of the EF-JFKA.

I was jesting. I only saw some highlights, but Purdy reminds me of Tom Brady. He nearly prevailed, and the 49ers defense just could not hold in the final moments of the game. He does seem cool under fire, another Brady trait. My guess is you see the 49ers back in the SB next year.

My take is that it was physically impossible for a lone gunman armed with a single-shot bolt action rifle to have fired shots as quickly as they impacted JFK and Gov. Connally. There are other JFKA scholars, far more accomplished than myself, who have spent decades pursuing and fleshing out many questionable aspects of the JFKA, and the WC's limited and expedient narrative. Then, we have the HSCA, which in 1979 said the JFKA likely resulted from a conspiracy. No matter. The Daily Beast said LHO did it alone, and RFK2 is wrong in his "theory" of the JFKA. Yes, in this day and age. https://www.thedailybeast.com/heres-why-rfk-jrs-super-bowl-ad-was-an-absolute-disgrace "That same month, RFK Jr. reaffirmed his belief that the JFK assassination was not just the work of a 23-year-old loser using a rifle to elevate himself from the obscurity of laboring in a textbook warehouse. “There is overwhelming evidence that the CIA was involved in his murder,” Kennedy said on a radio talk show. There is no evidence that the assassination involved anybody but Lee Harvey Oswald, just as there is no evidence to back RFK Jr.’s other conspiracy theories. I heard early stirrings of the JFK conspiracy theory two days after the assassination. Douglas and I were among those who stood on the steps of the North Portico at 1 p.m. and watched JFK’s flag-draped coffin being borne to a horse-drawn gun carriage. The sound of the horse hooves starting toward the Capitol was joined by people muttering around us that the man who had murdered the president had himself been shot dead in Dallas just a half hour before. That killer was Jack Ruby and despite all the speculation that followed, there is no evidence that he was anything but another loser with a gun." Well, that is what the JFKA community is still up against. Anyone who suspects LHO did not act alone is a nut.