Dennis Berube

I read the Ganis book waiting for the part that connected him to the Assassination and it simply never came. With all the provable evidence, its unfortunate that vague associates of tangential characters are so heavily promoted in this case (JVB, 90% of everyone who ever wrote a book on this from texas, etc...) It really dilutes any number of critical takeaways from this whole episode of American history. Robert, any source for this?

Source? I generally find your associations interesting Robert, but saying the Bushs are the JFK masterminds is a bridge too far for me. Did prescott tell the Dulles brothers what to do? We will never know who the first person to hint at killing jfk was, never. But we can say Allen Dulles was involved by the overwhelming circumstantial evidence, that doesnt exist for bush as far as im aware.

If lt col Hickman is telling the truth, Vindman has long been a democratic political partisan and deserved to be fired. Doesnt the POTUS have the right to choose whos in his NSC? This faux leftist outrage over Vindman seems hollow to me. If Vindman misrepresented the phone call as Trump claims, why on earth should trump not remove him? Considering some of the claims against vindman, maybe the hatch act could come into play ala general walker? They are horrible on JFK, certainly no arbiter of truth in my view.

https://consortiumnews.com/2020/02/06/the-myth-of-incompetence-dnc-scandals-are-a-feature-not-a-bug/ one summarizing quote from the article: "But of course it’s no accident, and anyone with clear eyes and good intentions sees this. If you see someone working hard to make you believe that it’s incompetence, you are dealing with someone who is invested in maintaining the status quo in some way. You are being manipulated." I have to agree completely Robert. This is the problem with the Democratic party and why I personally can't subscribe to the "anyone but Trump, at all costs" mentality. Besides, if the goal is simply to beat Trump, I don't believe dirty tricks is necessary. The New Deal is still more powerful with the American people than the neoliberal economic schools. The problem is that the Democratic party does everything it can to avoid and actually dismantles New Deal style programs and politicians in its party. The result of that is the DNC conspiring against Sanders in 2016 and apparently once again in 2020, not to mention what they have done to Tulsi. But its about maintaining the status quo, not winning. I would love to hear Hillary Clinton or Tom Perez answer this question: If you could pick the next president right now between Tulsi Gabbard and Donald Trump, who would you pick?

Kirk, perhaps your knowledge does not extend to the reference I was making but it certainly had nothing to do with Khrushchev. I was talking about comparing the things that Tulsi was saying when she got back from that Assad trip to JFK's 1957 speech about Algeria where he blasted the French imperialism there. It didn't win him democratic party support until a few years later when he was proven correct, much like I believe with the disgusting overthrow attempt in Syria. Traveling to what the western media paints as an enemy that is using illegal weapons on its own citizens and reporting back that the entire narrative needs to be re-examined is called integrity. She stood to gain very little and has in fact been ostracized by the democratic party leadership (clintons/obama people) ever since. It's cute that your obsessed with removing Trump at all costs (even if it means you support Biden) and are willing to sacrifice political ideology and deal with another wall street democrat, I would rather not. At the pace the rather pitiful Warren is destroying herself, a Bernie/Gabbard ticket may actually be the best political option too. Once the country actually hears Tulsi speak for more than 2 minutes, I think significant numbers would support her.

Im not sure why that bothered you. She basically just said that she disagrees with the closed door meetings and wanted the evidence to be public. Considering she could grab a lot of wavering Republicans who watch fox, id say she played it smart. Also, her analysis of Clinton being corrupt and having a legacy of ashes is spot on. I really hope she is the vp for Bernie. I dont see any other combination of available candidates doing anything other than an obama repeat. It will be more Russia propaganda and more coup attempts, we dont have time to go through more of that.

Why exactly do you feel that way about Tulsi? I have supported her since she announced her trip to Syria and reported back truthfully. It reminded me of JFK in 1957 with Algeria, unpopular truth that everyone needs to hear.

Wurmser, former dick cheney advisor, is apparently advising trump and likely championed the recent war crime. https://theintercept.com/2020/01/16/david-wurmser-iran-suleimani-iraq-war/ Would Pence stop these people? Somehow i doubt it.

I was wrong, Jim did mention this already. I searched only for Pierre. Is Newman really trying to say that somehow his "scoop" means that the military were the prime operatives in the killing?

Unless my "search this topic" function failed me, I am surprised no one has mentioned the Finck testimony regarding military brass in the autopsy room directing the proceedings. To me, this is undeniable evidence that at least some part of the military was involved in the operation. At the same time, Newman's theory (I was at his 11/23 presentation) was not attempting to say that the CIA was not involved as much as he is convinced that Alpha 66 was run by the military and not the CIA. Maybe that has changed or he just didn't have time to get to it (he had rather severe technical issues). Also, I haven't read his latest book, so I could be mistaken here. In and of itself, I don't see how this really changes that much of the overall story or "paradigm" regarding the assassination. How does whatever the truth of Alpha 66 is affect what we know about Mexico City? That was all CIA and largely fabricated and then lied about. "Conscious of the Queen Bee" I think Garrison's quote was, I agree. As outlined in this thread, Phillips lied all over the place and admitted to being in Dealey Plaza, we are going to exonerate this guy because there is a possibility he may not have met with Oswald? Does anyone think that certain elements of the CIA had to be tricked by the military in order to facilitate the operation? (ie, forcing the CIA to cover it up due to there hands being all over Oswald) I certainly don't. Regardless, I'm not quite sure why people think that the operation was conducted by this or that agency or department of the military. The people that needed to be involved, were, no matter who was paying them. Did DeMorenschildt receive instruction by the Army to introduce Oswald to the Paines?

Kirk, this is your projection of what my take on this stuff is. You and others do this when you read criticism of things like the Steele dossier and the rest of the process this thread covers. My guess is that its due to your hatred of everything Trump blinds you into an emotional response, consistently. It doesn't take a grand jury investigation to determine very quickly that Cliff is not a positive poster in any way and simply fires invective off at every chance. You know kind of like yourself who takes a small online discussion and ends up saying things like.... That's really great Kirk, very constructive.

Where would we find evidence of JFK sanctioning a Castro hit? Unless your including the bay of pigs, it didnt happen. Im not sure who Obama killed but I disagree with it regardless. Trump has repeatedly shown ineptitude when it comes to evaluating strategic military options and questionable intelligence. His Douma retaliation attack was a war crime in my opinion. Is this good enough trump bashing kirk? Or am i still a trumpenlike or whatever you said?

Jeff you havent blocked Cliff yet? All these guys are able to think is that every statement they disagree with automatically means the person who said it loves trump and therefore needs to clarify their position on every move trump has ever made. This is emotional analysis more than anything else. They probably think they “won” something when we say that the drone strike was wrong and probably a war crime. Thats how attached they are to a never trump philosophy. Im sure cliff is already typing the word fascist into his computer.

Why the need to make assumptions? Jeff is pointing out the evidentiary issues with guccifer vs wiki leaks. Wiki leaks says the whole thing was a leak. So it definitely does not mean the "CIA" hacked the DNC to help Trump. It is quite conceivable however, that the manipulations of guccifer 2.0 was a form of damage control to shift the focus from DNC/Clinton corruption, to the Russia baiting mess we have today. Admittedly speculative, but it seems some of us have a need to jump to a conclusion. There is no way to "get this straight" completely at this moment. The only thing that is certain is that this is about more than the "evidence". And please do not cite a NY times or wapost article. They spew baseline propaganda and won't help anyone.

Except that Oswald was telling the truth, so that kinda doesn’t work for what you were trying to say. The guy everyone ignores was cliff. The Constitution was effectively gone long before Trump and blaming him like he is single handedly ruining America amounts to a weak and inappropriate analysis. He is a symptom of a larger disease that created the conditions for Trump. Like Brunings austerity in Germany led to the social/political conditions for Hitler. In this case we have many unaccountable runaway secret (some not secret) intelligence networks that influence politics and media to a point that Constitutional law isn't within sight anytime soon. It is that power that has ruined things, not a phone call to a puppet in Ukraine or facebook ads. btw, that article Robert posted is very interesting

Fair enough, I stand corrected.

How about zero Paul? Somehow, you, Kirk, Nieder, and that guy everyone ignores and others, seem to have the need to associate any statement that could imply anything other than trump is evil as confirmation of supporting him. This is simply wrong and badly missing the point. To be honest, seeing the predictable MSM article quoted in response by many here is getting quite tiresome and disappointing. The Russia bogey man narrative is ridiculous and has made many of you turn your backs on people who have done great work in this JFK/Cold war history field, its a shame.

I completely agree with that and would add that any possible normalization of tensions between America and Russia was made politically impossible by Russia gate as well. I'm not saying Trump would have definitely done so, but he certainly was less hawkish to Russia than Hillary, verbally anyway.

Are people on this forum in general agreement with this? If so, it reminds me of the Lowenstein quote about being surprised so many smart people couldn't figure out the assassinations. Wow. Exactly, maybe Oliver isn't interested in furthering a rift that benefits no one other than JVB.

Here is a direct quote from one of the historians that was used in the CNN article you cited. "I want people to walk away from this book saying 'I understand now, why the United States intervenes around the world.'" As most of us keep saying on this forum, MSM is not a credible reference in foreign policy matters. They, to a man/woman, consistently deny even the existence of 99% of all intelligence black operations and how they have changed the world. That same historian said something like "America is the enforcer of last resort" and she actually used Washington's words as a way to say we are simply extending what the founders essentially laid out for us. This is history gone mad, W and can only be said by ignoring covert operations almost entirely, at least the big ones in any event. I'm not saying you ignore that, but your references consistently do and should make them at least questionable to you. Consortium news is 1000x times better than CNN on literally anything other than celebrity fluff pieces, go with them instead. Also, the website for citizens for ethics has a board that consists of Zephyr Teachout and members of Chatham House, former Homeland Security people. I'm not saying all of their work is complete propaganda, but its the consistent theme of the MSM. When all of the MSM agrees on something, look out.

Like when Obama/Clinton illegally had the socialist leader of Libya murdered because he was threatening the financial system? Afghanistan? Or maybe when Clinton/Gore illegally bombed Serbia? Bush killing hundreds of thousands over a lie? The list is endless as we all know. How come those actions never had meaningful investigations in the US that led to impeachment proceedings? Because the MSM/deep state if you will, was on board. In a just world, most of these people would be in jail. We dont live in that world. Trump is historically awful, as was Nixon, but having an unaccountable network blackmail/control a Potus is much worse. A potus has to at least pretend his actions are for the greater good, intelligence networks dont. Withholding (questionable aid) aid for campaign help isnt good. Promising our enemies better deals if they prolong wars or hostage situations for personal gain (Nixon,Reagan) is worse in my opinion, Americans needlessly died because of it.

This is not a pertinent argument WD. Most of the upper leaderships of both parties are sociopaths in one form or another. The question is whether or not a POTUS is being attacked by intelligence manipulation which we have precedent and motive for, or whether this all makes sense on face value. Even the MSMs narrative is confused, but they are not allowed to question covert operations so we cant rely on them here, or ever. For example, the fraud of the Douma attack (and the recent OPCW revelations, which was obvious to most of us when it happened) which makes Trump and everyone in his defense administration potentially liable for a war crime, no discussion from Democrats like Schiff, or most Rs either.

He asked us intel if mifsud was theirs and they said no, thats the sum of this story. If we look to the washington post for clear answers and diligent reporting, we will end up agreeing with the Warren report.

So wrong Kirk, so so wrong. Oliver stones movie literally created an act of congress and reinvigorated the entire populace into questioning everything since 1963. Thats because all of those people who saw the ending thought it was something valuable. Spielberg, Hanks, Clooney and scorcese cant put anything close to that on their resume and are apparently too scared to try. I have to disagree with Pat on its jfk value as well. Its 2019, just saying it wasnt oswald isnt enough. It was a coup, the de facto end of the US republic and going with the mob angle is another step backwards. The jfk takeaway in 2019 should be that intelligence agencies aren’t compatible with democracy, at least in their current form. Thats the crushing disappointment of this movie to me. Nevermind that the books author was an obvious opportunist whos story changed more than Madeleine browns.

Sorry but ill go with Stone bob. All russians have a mandatory conscription for 12 months. There is nothing even close to Hitler here except the constant US betrayal of Putin going back to the 90s. Like when he promised he wouldnt invade the next country(the US wont expand NATO, etc...) also close to hitler politically is the party that took over ukraine in the western backed overthrow. But blame the russians for everything, its good business. Us = 800+ bases in over 80 countries Russia = maybe 35 in 8 countries I realize as i type this, Its time to let this thread die, way too far off of its topic.