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Guest Stephen Turner
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Guest Stephen Turner

Just prior to posting this the JFK board showed the following. Five of the first division threads had been started by Tim (Gratz), and ten out of eleven "last replies" were by the same Gentleman, so, as I say, is this some kinda record.

Tim, try and get some sleep, or your Dr will be prescribing Ritalin.

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Stephen, with the consent of my present employer (I've not always been this fortunate) I do the Forum in part so I do NOT fall asleep! I could easily fall asleep reading or watching television.

So I appreciate your concern for my sleep time but it is not necessary! I will say it can be difficult sleeping during the daylight hours. Escpecially when there are two new houses being built in my neighborhood, one right next to my bedroom!!

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Guest Stephen Turner
Stephen, with the consent of my present employer (I've not always been this fortunate) I do the Forum in part so I do NOT fall asleep! I could easily fall asleep reading or watching television.

So I appreciate your concern for my sleep time but it is not necessary! I will say it can be difficult sleeping during the daylight hours. Escpecially when there are two new houses being built in my neighborhood, one right next to my bedroom!!

And a reply within seven minutes. Tim, your diligence is matched only by your stamina.

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And in my unbiased opinion nothing wrong with any of those posts.

The John Hunt arycle I posted (found on the MFF site) deserves reading by any serious student of the medical evidence.

With respect to Hersh, I believe I simply noted he was scheduled to appear at the JFK Lancer conference in November.

Each of those two posts took but a minute.

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Stephen, with the consent of my present employer (I've not always been this fortunate) I do the Forum in part so I do NOT fall asleep! I could easily fall asleep reading or watching television.

So your present employer allows you to spend your working time on the forum. Does that mean he pays you for your contributions to the forum? Is this some sort of confession?

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It is what you could call a low stress job. But when duty calls I rise to the occasion. I just checked in (took about an hour) a lovely family of seven from England: grandparents, parents and three children. The grandparents and parents are renewing their wedding vows on Smathers Beach tomorrow.

Frankly, I would rather work with people than post on the Forum but when it is slow the Internet both passes the time and prevents me from dozing off. It was in 2003 that while "surfing" Gordon's web-site I encountered the story of Gaeton Fonzi's trip to Key West and it was in pursuing that story and the other Key West connections that got me into this. It has been a fascinating experience. Why just this morning I got to speak with the lady who was Barry Goldwater's long time chief of staff. a lady married to a relative of President Eisenhower. It is those kind of personal interactions that IMO make this research interesting.

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Frankly, I would rather work with people than post on the Forum

Tim,

I have gotten the impression that most people on the forum would rather see you working with people than posting on the forum. And I expect that some probably see your posting so much on the forum as being your job. But I supposed that if one can discuss so many aspects of the case intelligently, then there should be no limit to how many threads they start as long as they are not unnecessarily repetitive.

Bill

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Bill, it is clear that people with preconceived theories about what happened do not like to see those theories questioned. I mean, it is almost like they are wedded to their theory and have taken a vow to remain wedded to it until death. That has been the experience of others here who have challenged the "conventional wisdom."

But I know the Forum has a wider readership than just the members. And i believe there may very well be those who are willing to accept or reject my thoughts on this Forum without first filtering them through preconceived ideas.

I would remind readers that it was I who first published on this Forum any place in the world who were the visitors to Silvia Odio's. That revelation was later confirmed by both Joan Mellen and David Talbot who interviewed Angelo Murgado for their respective books.

And recently I published my simple discovery that both Jim Marrs in "Crossfire" and Oliver Stone in "JFK" misstated the number of flights of stairs LHO had to descend to get from the sixth floor to the second floor.

And it was I who discovered that the long-time chief of staff to Barry Goldwater states that BG never had a staff member as described in Bradley Ayer's book.

I have never knowingly published a false piece on information on this Forum. Obviously, what are my opinions remain opinions for people to accept or reject.

Let me also state that I find this Forum valuable in discovering information known to other researchers. For instance, I published a while ago that the book "Triangle of Death" reports that two witnesses told the FBI they had seen Oswald and Ruby together at a restaurant. James Richards quickly posted their FBI report that makes it clear they denied seeing the two togetgher but only speculated that others have.

Therte is so much misinformation published about this case (whether intentionally or negligently) that it is most helpful to obtain the perspectives of persons who have spent far more time researching the case than I have. That is, IMO, one of the best ways to weed out some of the misinformation.

I appreciate your comments, Bill. I always find your posts intelligent and articulate.

Edited by Tim Gratz
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Bill, it is clear that people with preconceived theories about what happened do not like to see those theories questioned. I mean, it is almost like they are wedded to their theory and have taken a vow to remain wedded to it until death. That has been the experience of others here who have challenged the "conventional wisdom."

..............

And it was I who discovered that the long-time chief of staff to Barry Goldwater states that BG never had a staff member as described in Bradley Ayer's book.

Tim, you haven't discovered anything yet.

BEAyers was approached by a women named Pearl who said her father worked for Barry Goldwater for 20 years, serving mainly as a liason with the Mexican-American community, and told BEA a story about some money.

Now we have a Congressman from Louisiana who was caught with ten grand in his refrigerator. So I'm sure a Senator like Goldwater had lots more cash floating around.

BEA repeats Pearl's story in his book The Zenith Secret, and you make one phone call with another Goldwater office worker and without even knowing the name of Pearl's father you describe to her a person you now say she doesn't rememberand therefore doesn't exist.

Even if the story volunteered by "Pearl" is false and her father didn't work for Goldwater, that doesn't diminish, except in your mind, what BEA has to say about JMWAVE.

So please don't inflate your resume with something that has yet to be resolved.

Bill Kelly

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Bill wrote:

BEAyers was approached by a women named Pearl WE ONLY HAVE AYERS'S STATEMENT THAT SUCH A WOMAN EXISTS

who said her father worked for Barry Goldwater for 20 years, serving mainly as a liason with the Mexican-American community,

EVEN IF PEARL EXISTS, WE ONLY HAVE AYERS' STATEMENT WHAT PEARL TOLD HIM, AND EVEN IF PEARL TOLD HIM THAT HER FATHER WORKED FOR BG FOR 20 YEARS NOT ONLY DID AYERS NEVER CLAIM TO HAVE VERIFIED IT BUT THE BG CHIEF OF STAFF SAYS NO SUCH PERSON EVER WORKED FOR HER

and told BEA a story about some money

AGAIN, WE DO NOT KNOW THAT PEARL EVEN EXISTS.

WE KNOW HER FATHER NEVER WORKED FOR BG.

BUT, EVEN IF HE DID, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT PEARL TOLD AYERS.

AND EVEN IF PEARL TOLD AYERS THAT STORY THERE IS NO EVIENCE CITED BY AYERS TO CORROBORATE IT..

Bill went on:

BEA repeats Pearl's story in his book The Zenith Secret, and you make one phone call with another Goldwater office worker

BG'S LONG TIME CHIEF OF STAFF, WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN PEARL'S FATHER'S EMPLOYER, IS HARDLY JUST "ANOTHER GOLDWATER OFFICE WORKER--YOU KNOW BETTER THAN THAT, BILL KELLY!!

and without even knowing the name of Pearl's father I DON'T KNOW HIS NAME BECAUSE AYERS NEVER BOTHERS TO PUBLISH IT, EVEN THOUGH HE IS NOW DEAD. GEE, I WONDER WHY THAT MIGHT BE!! you describe to her a person you now say she doesn't rememberand therefore doesn't exist.

And finally:

Even if the story volunteered by "Pearl" is false and her father didn't work for Goldwater, that doesn't diminish, except in your mind, what BEA has to say about JMWAVE.

BILL, YOU GIVE AYERS THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT. IF THE STORY IS FALSE, HOW CAN YOU STATE THERE WAS A LADY NAMED PEARL WHO LIED TO AYERS? AN EQUALLY REASONABLE PROPIOSITION IS THAT AYERS MADE UP THE WHOLE TALE (NOTICE HE NEVER GIVES US PEARL'S LAST NAME EITHER)AND IF HE DID, THAT IS CERTAINLY GOOD REASON TO DISBELIEVE EVERYTHING ELSE HE HAS EVER WRITTEN. IF I EVER CATCH YOU IN A FLAT-OUT LIE ABOUT THE CASE I WILL NEVER READ ANOTHER WORD YOU WRITE EITHER, BILL.

WHY DON'T YOU BE UP FRONT WITH US AND ADMIT THAT YOU TOO HAVE YOUR DOUBTS ABOUT THE PEARL STORY. AND REMEMBER, I AM TRYING TO SAVE YOUR DERRIERE SO YOU DO NOT GET OUT ON A LIMB WITH AYERS AND RUIN YOUR MOCK GRAND JURY. MARK LANE WARNED GARRISON ABOUT CHARLES SPIESEL BUT GARRISON REFUSED TO TAKE LANE'S ADVISE.

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Bill wrote:

BEAyers was approached by a women named Pearl WE ONLY HAVE AYERS'S STATEMENT THAT SUCH A WOMAN EXISTS

who said her father worked for Barry Goldwater for 20 years, serving mainly as a liason with the Mexican-American community,

EVEN IF PEARL EXISTS, WE ONLY HAVE AYERS' STATEMENT WHAT PEARL TOLD HIM, AND EVEN IF PEARL TOLD HIM THAT HER FATHER WORKED FOR BG FOR 20 YEARS NOT ONLY DID AYERS NEVER CLAIM TO HAVE VERIFIED IT BUT THE BG CHIEF OF STAFF SAYS NO SUCH PERSON EVER WORKED FOR HER

and told BEA a story about some money

AGAIN, WE DO NOT KNOW THAT PEARL EVEN EXISTS.

WE KNOW HER FATHER NEVER WORKED FOR BG.

BUT, EVEN IF HE DID, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT PEARL TOLD AYERS.

AND EVEN IF PEARL TOLD AYERS THAT STORY THERE IS NO EVIENCE CITED BY AYERS TO CORROBORATE IT..

Bill went on:

BEA repeats Pearl's story in his book The Zenith Secret, and you make one phone call with another Goldwater office worker

BG'S LONG TIME CHIEF OF STAFF, WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN PEARL'S FATHER'S EMPLOYER, IS HARDLY JUST "ANOTHER GOLDWATER OFFICE WORKER--YOU KNOW BETTER THAN THAT, BILL KELLY!!

and without even knowing the name of Pearl's father I DON'T KNOW HIS NAME BECAUSE AYERS NEVER BOTHERS TO PUBLISH IT, EVEN THOUGH HE IS NOW DEAD. GEE, I WONDER WHY THAT MIGHT BE!! you describe to her a person you now say she doesn't rememberand therefore doesn't exist.

And finally:

Even if the story volunteered by "Pearl" is false and her father didn't work for Goldwater, that doesn't diminish, except in your mind, what BEA has to say about JMWAVE.

BILL, YOU GIVE AYERS THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT. IF THE STORY IS FALSE, HOW CAN YOU STATE THERE WAS A LADY NAMED PEARL WHO LIED TO AYERS? AN EQUALLY REASONABLE PROPOSITION IS THAT AYERS MADE UP THE WHOLE TALE (NOTICE HE NEVER GIVES US PEARL'S LAST NAME EITHER)AND IF HE DID, THAT IS CERTAINLY GOOD REASON TO DISBELIEVE EVERYTHING ELSE HE HAS EVER WRITTEN. IF I EVER CATCH YOU IN A FLAT-OUT LIE ABOUT THE CASE I WILL NEVER READ ANOTHER WORD YOU WRITE EITHER, BILL.

WHY DON'T YOU BE UP FRONT WITH US AND ADMIT THAT YOU TOO HAVE YOUR DOUBTS ABOUT THE PEARL STORY. AND REMEMBER, I AM TRYING TO SAVE YOUR DERRIERE SO YOU DO NOT GET OUT ON A LIMB WITH AYERS AND RUIN YOUR MOCK GRAND JURY. MARK LANE WARNED GARRISON ABOUT CHARLES SPIESEL BUT GARRISON REFUSED TO TAKE LANE'S ADVICE.

Edited by Tim Gratz
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Tim, now I feel compelled to stick up for those who read your many post by saying that for many of them - once is enough, so please don't put repeats up there. Maybe pick one of your last two that are duplicates of one another and delete it.

As far as the stuff you post most of the time, people like you, Simkin, Kelly, Hogan and a few others are people that I would yield to on this particular topics for you guys have far more knowledge than I could ever hope to have pertaining to who's who when it comes to all these background players. For me, my interest is in the photographic record and how it relates to the witnesses statements.

Bill

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