Loran E. Hall

[Guest Robert Morrow]

"HOWEVER - after Walker narrowly escaped death when Oswald (allegedly) tried to shoot him at his home on April 10th, 1963, Walker changed dramatically. He quickly dropped out of the national news media limelight."

The vast majority, and I mean 90%+, of JFK researchers do not think Oswald shot at Edwin Walker in April, 1963. Almost all of them think Oswald was being posthumously being framed for the Walker shooting as a way of posthumously framing him for the JFK asssassination.

Just as Oswald was being framed for the Tippit murder in order to frame him for the JFK assassination.

I wonder just how many posters on Education Forum actually believe Oswald shot at Edwin Walker? I would like a polling of Ed Forum community on this matter. So, folks, what do you think?

I, for one, think there is almost no way at all Oswald was the one shooting at Walker.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Robert Morrow

[Paul Trejo]

"HOWEVER - after Walker narrowly escaped death when Oswald (allegedly) tried to shoot him at his home on April 10th, 1963, Walker changed dramatically. He quickly dropped out of the national news media limelight."

The vast majority, and I mean 90%+, of JFK researchers do not think Oswald shot at Edwin Walker in April, 1963. Almost all of them think Oswald was being posthumously being framed for the Walker shooting as a way of posthumously framing him for the JFK asssassination.

Just as Oswald was being framed for the Tippit murder in order to frame him for the JFK assassination.

I wonder just how many posters on Education Forum actually believe Oswald shot at Edwin Walker? I would like a polling of Ed Forum community on this matter. So, folks, what do you think?

I, for one, think there is almost no way at all Oswald was the one shooting at Walker.

Robert, I'd also like to see the results of such a poll.

Several members of this Forum believe Marina Oswald's testimony, as well as George and Jeanne De Mohrenschildt's testimony on the Oswald shooting.

Others also believe Dick Russell's interview of Bob Schmidt after the JFK hit, when Bob confessed that he and Larrie Schmidt joined Oswald for this shooting.

These are four folks who were close enough to Oswald to be taken seriously.

So, if a poll is taken, I'd love to see the result.

All best,

--Paul Trejo

[Guest Tom Scully]

Some food for thought, and some advice, Paul. Don't be too quick to decide what to believe about this incident. You support the idea of several conspirators, including Oswald. Have you decided on a weapon? Do you have a definitive match of the weapon and a bullet?

...In 1994 Marina Oswald told this researcher: "All I can tell you is what he told me when he came home. And people have pointed out how nervous he was after that, and he was cool as cucumber after Kennedy? Are you asking me, did I make this up? No. He came home from work, it was late, I found the note in one of the little closets. I confront him when he came what it was all about? Then he turned the radio on. He told me he shot at Walker."

If OSWALD shot at General Edwin Walker he would have known immediately if he hit him or missed him. Marina Oswald pointed out to this interviewer that all she had was her husband's word he shot at General Edwin Walker. She was not a witness to the event. HEMMING was the shooter and knew the outcome of the Walker incident. OSWALD was exaggerating his importance in the event to his wife. He had not done the shooting. If he had, he would have known that he missed....

[Paul Trejo]

Some food for thought, and some advice, Paul. Don't be too quick to decide what to believe about this incident. You support the idea of several conspirators, including Oswald. Have you decided on a weapon? Do you have a definitive match of the weapon and a bullet?

...In 1994 Marina Oswald told this researcher: "All I can tell you is what he told me when he came home. And people have pointed out how nervous he was after that, and he was cool as cucumber after Kennedy? Are you asking me, did I make this up? No. He came home from work, it was late, I found the note in one of the little closets. I confront him when he came what it was all about? Then he turned the radio on. He told me he shot at Walker."

If OSWALD shot at General Edwin Walker he would have known immediately if he hit him or missed him. Marina Oswald pointed out to this interviewer that all she had was her husband's word he shot at General Edwin Walker. She was not a witness to the event. HEMMING was the shooter and knew the outcome of the Walker incident. OSWALD was exaggerating his importance in the event to his wife. He had not done the shooting. If he had, he would have known that he missed....

Tom, you're right that nobody should quickly decide anything in this tapestry of lies, secrets and cover-ups. I don't claim to have the Truth, I only claim to have clues, and I am trying hard to follow them up.

I certainly agree that Oswald would have known if he had shot Walker or not. Also, after one shot, those involved sped away quickly.

I see no evidence that Gerry Patrick Hemming was the shooter. The story by Dick Russell is the most convincing theory I've seen -- i.e. it is based on the confession by Bob Schmidt that he and his brother, Larrie Schmidt, and Oswald shot at Walker that night. This explains why the bullet fragment that Walker and Surrey found in his wall did not match a copper-jacketed bullet from a Manlicher-Carcano. A different rifle was used, and Bob Schmidt did not say which of them was the shooter -- although one might suspect that Oswald could have used somebody else's rifle.

Also - Oswald did not tell Marina that he killed Walker, did he? Only that he shot at him. So, Dick Russell's story has the most merit.

The Warren Commission story falls flat simply because they insist the bullet came from a Manlicher-Carcano, and FBI agent James Hosty himself had serious doubts as to that statement. He said the tests were inconclusive at the FBI labs.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

...But getting back to the topic of this thread -- Loran Hall -- it's interesting to me that Loran Hall's testimony to Jim Garrison and Ed Meese is parallel to the testimony we obtain from Harry Dean, who was an eye-witness to the 'patsy' meeting in Southern California attended by Loran Hall, General Edwin Walker, Congressman John Rousselot, Larry Howard, Guy Gabaldon and Harry Dean.

The congruence of testimony by Loran Hall and Harry Dean has never had a proper hearing, in my opinion.

All best,

--Paul

[Ian Kingsbury]

Paul

It appears that LHO was far from lonely,where would Kerry Thornley fit into the Gabaldon/Walker scenario would he be part of Oswalds sheep dipping or part of the control?.

[B. A. Copeland]

Has Odio ever fingered Hall as Leopoldo? Did she ever recognize him if shown any images?

[Paul Trejo]

Paul

It appears that LHO was far from lonely,where would Kerry Thornley fit into the Gabaldon/Walker scenario would he be part of Oswalds sheep dipping or part of the control?.

Thanks, Ian, for the notation. Kerry Thornley, according to his own testimony, belongs squarely to the New Orleans conspiracy, and does not seem to have information about the Dallas conspiracy.

He insists he never met Oswald again after 1959, but he admits picking up Oswald's FPCC flyers after the Oswald/Bringuier staged fist-fight. So, that would suggest that he was one more right-wing JFK hater who worked closely with the core sheep-dippers, Guy Banister, David Ferrie, Carlos Bringuier and Ed Butler.

So, it is obvious that Kerry Thornley saw Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans in 1963, at minimum on television, and possibly on Canal Street, but Thornley never denied seeing Oswald in 1963, he only denied meeting Oswald in 1963.

As the trash-man in the conspiracy, it is likely that Thornley had no further information to give to Jim Garrison, and that Garrison over-reacted when he accused Thornley of perjury.

It is likely that Thornley worked with Guy Banister, but Guy Banister, a professional, knew how to keep secrets from underlings, and he certainly would never divulge any conversations he ever had with his fellow underground paramilitary Minute Man, the former General Edwin A. Walker.

Yet, since Walker was a public speaker who appeared on radio and television, and was already infamous in the Ole Miss riots of 1962, there is every possibility that a JFK hater like Kerry Thornley would know about General Walker, and even be a fan. But it is pure speculation to imagine that Thornley was involved in the secret Banister-Walker conspiracy to sheep-dip Lee Harvey Oswald.

Finally, even picking up the FPCC leaflets on Canal Street does not prove that Kerry Thornley knew exactly why Lee Harvey Oswald was posing as an officer of the FPCC (when in fact the FPCC in New York disavowed him). Banister probably explained nothing at all to his subordinates.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited May 20, 2012 by Paul Trejo

[Ian Kingsbury]

Paul

Thanks for the quick and concise response, I believe that Oswald

Had knowledge of the many "operations" occurring at that time.

Obviously the FBI,CIA,ATF !. Hosty met with ATF on the morning of

The 22nd also his links to the training camp at lake pontchartrain/Ferrie.

Bannister-Walker-Atlee Phillips-Dulles to me appears

Safe hands in New Orleans-Action in Dalllas-Confusion in Mexico-Control in Washington.

Whoever was directing Oswald knew as long as he died soon after they could get away with it.

But I believe the intel groups moved too quick to cover thier tracks

And D.A. Wade dropping the hint of Oswalds involvement with the FBI

Was to get someone else off his back.

[Paul Trejo]

Paul

Thanks for the quick and concise response, I believe that Oswald

Had knowledge of the many "operations" occurring at that time.

Obviously the FBI,CIA,ATF !. Hosty met with ATF on the morning of

The 22nd also his links to the training camp at lake pontchartrain/Ferrie.

Bannister-Walker-Atlee Phillips-Dulles to me appears

Safe hands in New Orleans-Action in Dalllas-Confusion in Mexico-Control in Washington.

Whoever was directing Oswald knew as long as he died soon after they could get away with it.

But I believe the intel groups moved too quick to cover thier tracks

And D.A. Wade dropping the hint of Oswalds involvement with the FBI

Was to get someone else off his back.

Ian, it seems to me that Oswald was once considered to be a valuable intelligence asset by several agencies, starting with the ONI. However, he was also a young man; impatient and ambitious. The more information he got, the more dangerous he became, and he didn't appear to be a Team player -- he wanted fame and fortune quickly.

You mentioned Hosty in this regard, and I believe Hosty knew far more than he ever told. For example, if my suspicions are correct about the resigned Major General Edwin A. Walker, it is interesting to note that Hosty was a long-time bridge partner with Robert Allen Surrey, who was General Walker's right-hand business partner from 1962-1969. Surrey was so close to Walker that he even traveled to Ole Miss with him, for the Ole Miss riots of 1962.

Now, a member of this Forum, Harry Dean, tells us that he was in a JBS meeting with Loran Hall and General Walker in September of 1963, in which General Walker named Lee Harvey Oswald as their patsy in their plot to kill JFK.

Given this - and given the fact that Robert Allen Surrey practically lived at 1401 Turtle Creek Drive with General Walker, we can easily surmise that FBI Agent James Hosty might have heard the gossip about Oswald -- his special charge -- from Robert Allen Surrey on bridge night.

Also, granting Hosty's links with Lake Pontchartrain, it is obvious that Loran Hall would also be a topic of conversation. (By the way, Harry Dean tells me that tape recordings of Loran Hall's speeches to the John Birch Society still exist!)

However, Ian, I personally prefer to get down to the ground-crew level. For me, Phillips and Dulles are mainly observers. That is, their main contribution as CIA intelligence was to look the other way as Banister-Ferrie-Bringuier-Butler sheep-dipped Lee Harvey Oswald, and Banister-Walker-Hall-Gabaldon organized the Dallas teams.

The control, in my opinion, was not in Washington (although there had to be permission in Washington). The real control was in Dallas. Jim Garrison made too much of his own discoveries in New Orleans, and came to believe the control was closer to New Orleans. Failing to prove that, he threw the blame to Washington and Langley. But Garrison fell short by neglecting the all-important Dallas connection.

As you noted, Ian, D.A. Wade's dropping the hint of Oswald's involvement with the FBI was a major crack in the cover-up. But after the Warren Commission findings were published, even Gerald Ford chose to tell the world about this critical crack in the Warren Report (Portrait of theAssassin, 1965). Oswald was far more right-wing than the Warren Commission wanted Americans to believe.

But they were fairly safe in their calculations, because Oswald was such a loose cannon that he had too few friends. His closest friend at the time was George De Mohrenschildt, and George fled to Haiti after the Walker shooting -- never to be heard from again until after Oswald was killed.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

[John Dolva]

Why not NO and DC? And Dallas. I also have reasons for thinking Hosty knew more. Interesting Nazi connection there. I say Nazi because he and some other neo nazis a couple of years (?) later were caught smuggling weapons into Mississippi. Come to think of it, what happened to Surrey? Hosty got sent to Kansas (?).

[Ian Kingsbury]

Kyle G.Clark Dallas No2.FBI must have known what Hosty was doing?.

He is the blond man inspecting the possible bullet strike on Elm.

And allegedly pockets an object. There was story in the press that he at one time looked into

A DPD/Oswald conspiracy on J. Edgars request

I think he was eventually reassigned to Memphis.

[David Boylan]

Why not NO and DC? And Dallas. I also have reasons for thinking Hosty knew more. Interesting Nazi connection there. I say Nazi because he and some other neo nazis a couple of years (?) later were caught smuggling weapons into Mississippi. Come to think of it, what happened to Surrey? Hosty got sent to Kansas (?).

Surrey was a member of Rockwell's American Nazi Party and printed out Rockwell's literature. Surrey's daughter presented flowers to Madam Nhu when she visited Dallas in 1963. There was a lot of anger after her husband was killed and most blamed JFK.

Hall was questioned by Hosty (FBI), Ellsworth (BATF) and Ed Coyle (MI) after Hall and Seymour were arrested in Dallas.

http://www.guardian....me-nhu-obituary

http://educationforu...?showtopic=3143

Hall had dropped a trailor of weapons he got from Guy Gabaldon (See Harry Dean) at Lester Logue's. Logue (oil man) was Gerry Hemming's contact in Dallas.

Anyone ever place Logue and George DeM together?

[Edit: Found it. Oltmen's HSCA testimony quoting George deMohrenschildt]

"I went to Dallas and stayed with George deMohrenschildt and George said "Lester Logue is one of my closest friends." Why?

"Because," de Mohrenschildt replied " Mr. Logue and I did a survey on oil for Batista in Cuba."

Weisberg quote - "If you'll recall what I told you about Lester Logue in connection with Madame Nhu's visit to Dallas. What do you make of the fact that. Karen Surrey (daughter of Robert Surrey) presented a bouquet of flowers to Madame Nhu in Dallas. Surrey was Walker's aide. (see Vol.23, p.515-6.)"

http://jfk.hood.edu/...967/Item 08.pdf

Edited May 22, 2012 by David Boylan

[John Dolva]

I find the last two posts interesting. Always learning something new. Logue was one of DeM's best friends because ... Batista in Cuba. And another pal is Oswald. Wierd?

Nice to get a name to the blond guy. (about the object he palmed. A piece of a wheel weight? because if that was recognised as the cause of the gouge in the kerbing then a pillar about trajectory would maybe not be there. Doing a look-see on a dpd/... conspiracy is a good way to locate loose ends. Is it known what he reported re this?

Does the paper work still exist?

[Paul Trejo]

Surrey was a member of Rockwell's American Nazi Party and printed out Rockwell's literature....

David, this is extremely interesting...what's your source?

It's most interesting because Surrey, who was James Hosty's bridge partner for years, was also General Walker's partner in the American Eagle Publishing Company.

General Walker seems to be clean of Nazi activities, as far as I can tell, but then these little hints keep rising up -- like the one you just mentioned.

Also, in Walker's 1962 testimony to the Senate Subcommittee on Military Preparedness, George Lincoln Rockwell marched in wearing full Nazi regalia, praising Edwin Walker to high heaven, and was quickly ejected.

Also General Edwin Walker personally visited KKK member, Byron De La Beckwith in Mississippi in February, 1964, to give him encouragement in his trial for the murder of civil rights leader Medgar Evers in June, 1963. This was in the courthouse at noon, with the Press taking photographs.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited May 29, 2012 by Paul Trejo