For Mike Williams

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Page#2 of Bullet Base Discussion

Edited May 21, 2008 by Thomas H. Purvis

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Page#3/Final page dealing with bullet base.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Forgot about this drawing, which usually comes in handy.

Some people, one just has to "draw" them a picture before they grasp the facts.

[Terry Mauro]

Who knows?

Sooner or later, we may actually get around to something of relevance in the JFK assassination.

And since neither "Para" nor "Dive"/aka SCUBA, etc; have that much bearing on the subject matter,

perhaps another avenue of "credibility" can be explored.

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31 Oct 2007

Read TopicMike Williams: Biography

I am recently retired from the United States Marine Corp, after 23 years of service; 1984-2007. My military occupational specialty, or Mos, for the last 19 years of my tour was 8541 Scout/Snipers. I have a strong background in ballistics, ammunitions, and weapons.

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Does not appear to be much in the way of research posted here in order that one can determine for themselves the "depth" of a "strong background".

However!

http://www.jfklancerforum.com/dc/dcboard.p...d=124&page=

http://www.jfklancerforum.com/dc/dcboard.p...69688&page=

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Now, as most who have been around this forum for any length of time are aware, discussion on the "clip" and it's failure to fully release from the Carcano, were long ago discussed.

However, not unlike many of the other BS scenario's, self proclaimed researchers and experts keep coming down the pike without even bothering to review what road they are on, where it leads to, or whether it even goes anywhere at all.

Attached is a "quickie" drawing which, in it's most simple terms, explains the Carcano clip mechanism as well as exactly why

anyone who attempts to make statements in regards to what the clip "should" have done, knows little on this subject matter as well.

Hopefully, everyone will download this, file it away, and then the next time someone starts this BS again, merely whip it out and explain it to these "weapons" experts.

Drawing#1 represents the inside of the receiver of the Carcano, where the loaded ammunition clip is inserted down into the receiver and en-block magazine housing.

Note that the inside of the receiver has a machined "lip" "A" in the forward area of that portion in which the clip is inserted.

Additionally, located at the rear of the inside of the receiver is a combination "clip guide" which also serves as a spring loaded holder for the clip as it provides pressure against the rear portion of the clip once inserted within the receiver.

This applied pressure forces the clip into the fully forward position within the receiver housing so that "A1"/the forward edges of the clip remain in direct contact with that lip/edge designated as "A".

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In moving along, we now look at Drawing#3 which was meant to represent an unloaded clip.

At the rear/base, one can see the groove in the clip which aligns with the clip guide within the receiver housing.

It is also noted that the base of the clip in the center, also has a "stop" lug which extends out past the rear of the clip, and which lug contacts with the spring release when the clip is fully inserted.

Of particular note in regards to the clip is the fact that the Mouth of the clip "B", has a shorter distance across it than does the rear/base of the clip.

In simple words, the sides of the clip are tapered inwards, thus closing the mouth to a smaller dimension.

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Moving to Drawing#2 which represents a clip with the ammo loaded, it is noted that when the cartridge is placed into the clip, that it forces the mouth of the clip to "open" up to a wider dimension. And, herein lies the critical importance in the "spring"/return to standard dimension for the clip after all cartridges/casings have been ejected.

When the clip is loaded with ammunition, the cartridge casing now forces the mouth of the clip outwards to a wider dimension, which makes that point designated as "A1" on the clip now "lock" itself within the lip designated as "A" on the receiver drawing.

With the outside edge of the clip locked in this "notch", and the spring release/clip guide at the rear of the clip exerting forward pressure against the clip, the clip now resides perfectly within that machined out area of the receiver.

When the last round is chambered and the cartridge casing which held the mouth of the clip open to it's designated wide mouth is gone, the spring of the steel (or brass) of the clip is supposed to allow the mouth of the clip to close sufficiently that the "A1" forward lip of the clip is no longer lodged within the "A" notch of the receiver.

This "closing" of the mouth of the clip now allows the clip to actually move forward slightly within the receiver and become loose to the extent that it may, or may not simply fall out.

However, a variety of things affect whether or not this actually happens.

Primarily, this revolves around the extent to which the clip may have had it's "mouth" stretched open to the extent that the inherent spring of the steel/brass has been stretched to the point that when the mouth closes after the last cartridge is gone, that portion of the forward edge of the clip "A1" does not close sufficiently to allow it to move forward past the notch/lip within the receiver.

In many instances when this happens, the clip will actually remain lodged inside the receiver as the pressure exerted on the rear of the clip by the clip release spring/clip guide will force the clip into a slightly binded position in which the sidewalls of the clip are in contact against the edge at the notch within the receiver.

Now!

I can take any Carcano clip, be it spring steel or brass, and force the mouth of the clip open to the extent that the clip no longer has the "spring" capability to return to the "narrow mouth" after the last cartridge is gone, and thusly make this clip hang within the receiver/magazine housing of the weapon virtually every single time.

Or!

I can take any Carcano clip, be it spring steel or brass, and force the mouth of the clip closed to the extent that the mouth of the clip will always (when no cartridge is present) remain of a dimension which is less than that part of the receiver in which the mouth must slide to upon ejection of the last cartridge, and even though the cartridge casings will hold this clip open to the extent that it will insert and function properly, the clip will virtually always fall out of the weapon after the last cartridge has been chambered and the mouth of the clip closes considerably.

Or!

There is that "mid-point" in between, in which the mouth of the casing is such that, after chambering of the last round, it will not move forward within the receiver sufficiently to allow it to fully fall out, and in which the spring release exerting pressure against the rear of the clip helps hold it in place.

And, in this instance, one merely has to push the "spring release" button which is located within the forward area of the trigger housing, which releases any forward pressure on the clip and thus allows it to fall free from the weapon.

So, if one gets themselves a Carcano; a clip; and some ammo, they will find that by either forcing the mouth of the clip slightly open or forcing it slightly closed, one can just about make the Carcano clip do as one wishes, be it hang up, fall free, or in between.

Note: Additional elements which affect this is the weapon age and internal wear of that area within the receiver where the clip rests, as well as the actual wear on the clip itself.

Some of the old brass clips have been used to the extent that they are well worn on the forward area and thusly drop more readily and more easily than do the spring steel versions.

The "Issue" of the hanging clip in the weapon recovered from the sixth floor of the TSDB is in fact a "non-issue".

And anyone who understands the functioning of the Carcano and it's clip mechanism would understand this, just as they would recognize exactly why the weapon was made with the "clip release" button within the forward area of the trigger housing.

It is recognized that since one of the "Great's" of the USMC shooting abilities has said otherwise on this subject matter, that it would be complete blasphemy for anyone else within the USMC to contradict it.

Kind of like a devout catholic telling everyone that the Pope does not speak to God.

My position would be that if God wanted me to remain ignorant of the facts, that he would not have given me the ability to overcome such ignorance of these "purported" facts.

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"Hopefully, everyone will download this, file it away, and then the next time someone starts this BS again, merely whip it out and explain it to these "weapons" experts."

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Message I thought you might be interested in reading this web page: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=12804

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Terry Mauro

It's on its way to my computer at home, Purv. Great idea!

[Thomas H. Purvis]

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showuser=6200

"I have a strong background in ballistics, ammunitions, "

http://www.jfklancerforum.com/dc/dcboard.p...d=127&page=

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Well! It ain't that strong.

Perhaps about in the same grade as the "Al Carrier" Marathon Station Scout Sniper category.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Not unlike Carrier, I have little doubt that someone with such a "Strong" background was going to, sooner or later, get around to explaining this "little known' aspects of weight loss to a bullet.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Too bad that such good information has to come from someone who has such a lack of credibility.

Certainly would have thought that someone with a "strong background" in ammunition and ballistics and shooting in general would have recognized and presented this.

Perhaps "Spanky and the "Gang" over on Lancer are impressed with "Strong Backgrounds".

Not me!

I had a pretty "strong background" once.

42 days in the jungle of S. Vietnam without a bath, creates one Helluva "strong background".

Not to mention crotch-rot and a host of other nice things.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Son Tay, and the whole McDonald mess lends to credibility. Im sure you can figure this out with a little effort.

For anyone who is unaware, his name is Jeffrey R. MacDonald!

And, if nothing else, he was the "initiating force" which lead me to first question the honesty and integrity of Paul Strombaugh, pick up Strombaugh's testimony within the WC, and for the first time, see a photo of CE399. Which has ultimately lead to_____________________________(fill in the blank with whatever suits one)

Which by the way most assuredly does not require a "smart" person to know that CE399 did not do what the WC stated.

And I might add, especially for "lap dog" DVP, only a COMPLETELY STUPID person who is completely void of self reasoning ability would allow themselves to be fed; swallow; and accept as "good stuff" the WC's BS in that regards.

Edited May 29, 2008 by Thomas H. Purvis

[Thomas H. Purvis]

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showuser=6200

"I have a strong background in ballistics, ammunitions, "

http://www.jfklancerforum.com/dc/dcboard.p...d=127&page=

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Well! It ain't that strong.

Perhaps about in the same grade as the "Al Carrier" Marathon Station Scout Sniper category.

Whereas my nemesis appears to not want to play the game * perhaps one should continue on without him.

"I have a strong background in ballistics, ammunitions, "-------says the nemesis!

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Well! It ain't that strong.

I had a pretty "strong background" once.

42 days in the jungle of S. Vietnam without a bath, creates one Helluva "strong background".----------says the highly unreliable source!

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Now, just perhaps having a strong "odorus" background may perhaps be better than all of this purported "strong background in ballistics, ammunitions", as all one has to do is read the WC and then take a look at CE399 to recognize immediately that SOMETHING STINKS!

Not knowing exactly what a "strong background" in anything actually is supposed to represent, I must therefore rely on the tried; true; and proven technique which states basically that in order to understand things, one must study and eva;iate them.

And in that regards, if one wants to understand CE399 and how it actually came to exist, then one had best also understand that they would need to study this piece of evidence (which has ballistic as well as ammunition related qualities).

Suprisingly enough, most ballistic crime laboratories are of the same opinions, and those who wish to profess their "strong background" without even understanding the concept of studying the ballistic evidence, happen to stink worse than did I after 42 days of jungle duty with no bath.

In event that one wants to understand CE399, then they had best study CE399.

NOT merely run off at the mouth about their "strong" backgrounds.

*P.S. For those who are unaware, Mr. "Strong Background" happens to be back over at LANCER, discussing THE SHOT THAT MISSED (HS)(Horse S**t).

Not unlike every other known "great shooter" who has permeated these forums, his research is so lacking that he is not aware that there was no SHOT THAT MISSED.

[Bill Miller]

Perhaps about in the same grade as the "Al Carrier" Marathon Station Scout Sniper category

Whereas my nemesis appears to not want to play the game * perhaps one should continue on without him.

Nemesis ??? What is this ... a Bat Man episode. Professional people usually don't talk so nutty ... Carrier doesn't ... nor Mike. Your post will read better if you drop the cartoon super-hero lingo.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Perhaps about in the same grade as the "Al Carrier" Marathon Station Scout Sniper category

Whereas my nemesis appears to not want to play the game * perhaps one should continue on without him.

Nemesis ??? What is this ... a Bat Man episode. Professional people usually don't talk so nutty ... Carrier doesn't ... nor Mike. Your post will read better if you drop the cartoon super-hero lingo.

And your postings would most probably receive more applause back over at the LANCER sight where you still have at least a few persons believing that you actually know something in regards to the events in Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63---aka the assassination of JFK.

[Bill Miller]

And your postings would most probably receive more applause back over at the LANCER sight where you still have at least a few persons believing that you actually know something in regards to the events in Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63---aka the assassination of JFK.

Wow ... nothing to do this weekend again - hey Tommy? It took three minutes for you to get a response posted ........ How does that work? I mean is there a flashing light that goes off to tell you that a response has just went up or do you just sit there staring at the screen waiting for something to be posted. LOL!!!! Its almost like you have an invested interest in all this.

Anyway, thanks for the disgruntled response ... it tells a lot about who you are.

Bill

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Most, who have been around for any length of time, have seen the attached.

"I could do what you have already done, but the results would be the same"

James R. Looney to Tom Purvis, many years ago.

You see Miller, when I want EXPERT advice, I go to actual EXPERTS! NOT those such as yourself; Williams; Carrier; & Sherry who attempt to persuade the unknowing that you/they have such qualifications.

NOT----Bill Millers

NOT----Mike Williams

NOT----Al Carrier's

NOT----Sherry

But then again, there are a few of us* who actually know how to conduct empirical research and thereafter submit the findings to true experts to either verify and/or negate the conclusion.

*Most certainly does not include any of the four above stated names.

The nice thing about my "strong background" experience is that it assists in readily identification of anything and/or anyone who "stinks"!

P.S. If still living, Mr. Looney can be located through the AFTE (Association of Firearms & Toolmark Examiners), the PROFESSIONAL organization of these recognized Experts in the field.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

And your postings would most probably receive more applause back over at the LANCER sight where you still have at least a few persons believing that you actually know something in regards to the events in Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63---aka the assassination of JFK.

Wow ... nothing to do this weekend again - hey Tommy? It took three minutes for you to get a response posted ........ How does that work? I mean is there a flashing light that goes off to tell you that a response has just went up or do you just sit there staring at the screen waiting for something to be posted. LOL!!!! Its almost like you have an invested interest in all this.

Anyway, thanks for the disgruntled response ... it tells a lot about who you are.

Bill

Merely the odor of BS which permeates from your limited insight postings!

It sends out immediate signals that BM is back in town!

*Actually, we (me & them others) have a full crew dedicated merely to discrediting BM.

I am on Sunday Shift!.

The others died long ago, which should demonstrate exactly how much effort it is considered to discredit you!

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Here Miller!

I updated your Resume for you.

Certainly would not want anyone to get the mistaken idea that merely because you profess to have studied this case for some 25+ years, that you actually have either learned anything and/or presented anything of even minute significance.

[i]I am Bill Miller, a long time researcher of the Kennedy assassination. My main interest are in the realm of the photographic record and the witnesses statements and testimonies. I have studied the case for over 25 years and I have received the Mary Ferrell Award presented for the discovery of new evidence in the JFK assassination murder case.[/i]

Unfortunately, I do not have sufficient experience or training to have recognized that the James Altgens "re-enactment" photo as done by the Warren Commission was not taken from the same position as was the original photo position, as well as read and understand the Warren Commission testimonies sufficiently to recognize that James Altgens was approximately 30-feet farther down Elm St. than was the impct point of the Z313 headshot.