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Vehicle Speed v. Zapruder Film


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http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...mp;#entry147802

Post #34

Wasn’t the vehicle (average) velocity and the (various) shot timings based on the frame speed of the of the cine camera used to film the assassination by Zapruder.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/shaneyf2.htm

Mr. SPECTER. And does a 42-frame count have any significance with respect to the firing time on the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; we have established that the Zapruder motion picture camera operates at an average speed of 18.3 frames per second. And we have been advised that the minimum time for firing the rifle in successive shots is approximately two and a quarter seconds. So this gives us then a figure of two and a quarter seconds of frames; at 18.3, this gives us this figure of 41 to 42 frames.

Representative FORD. Would you repeat that again, please?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. The camera operates at a speed of 18.3 frames per second. So that in two and a quarter seconds it would run through about 42--41 to 42 frames.

Representative FORD. Then the firing of the rifle, repeat that again?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. As to the firing of the rifle we have been advised that the minimum time for getting off two successive well-aimed shots on the rifle is approximately two and a quarter seconds. That is the basis for using this 41 to 42 frames to establish two points in the film where two successive quick shots could have been fired.

---------------------------------

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; because we were able to determine the speed of the camera, and thereby accurately determine the length of time it takes for a specific number of frames to run through the camera at this 18.3 frames per second, and having located these frame positions in the street, we took the farthest distance point we had in the Zapruder film which was frame 161 through frame 313.

This was found to run elapsed time from the film standpoint which runs at 18.3 frames a second, runs for a total of 8.3 seconds.

This distance is 136.1 feet, and this can be calculated then to 11.2 miles per hour.

Mr. SPECTER. Is that a constant average speed or does that speed reflect any variations in the movement of the car?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is the overall average from 161 to 313. It does not mean that it was traveling constantly at 11.2, because it was more than likely going faster in some areas and slightly slower in some areas. It is only an average speed over the entire run.

Mr. DULLES. Over the entire run between what points?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Between frame 161 and 313.

Mr. DULLES. Yes; but where, could you place that on that chart, for example?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes.

Mr. DULLES. And describe the points?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. This is frame 161 which is the frame where they have just gone under the tree, to frame 313 which is the shot to the head. So that it is that distance there which is 136.1 feet.

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Speed = Distance travelled/elapsed time.

Nothing new here: http://www.vascar.com/

About the only trouble being that "time" as determined by the WC, is a derivative of elapsed frames of the Z-film, divided by 18.3.

Therefore, any increase in frames of the film, by it's nature, would generate a slower vehicle speed.

And, any deletion of frames of the film, by it's nature, would generate a faster vehicle speed.

And therein lies the answer to many questions as regards the Z-film

Likewise, if one is utilizing the Z-film exposed frames as an indicator of when a shot may have been fired, then, one can either cause one to overlook a potential shot merely by deletion of a few frames of the film.

To date, few have come to recognize the importance of certain evidence as it relates to he Z-film.

And, merely because one finds a "key" to unlock one door, it does not mean that the treasure will be immediately found, as there are many doors to find and unlock.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/gauthier.htm

Mr. GAUTHIER. Yes; the tracing is wrapped, and sealed in this container.

Mr. SPECTER. Without breaking the seal, I will ask you if the cardboard which has been set up here--may the record show it is a large cardboard. I will ask you for the dimensions in just a minute.

Mr. SPECTER. May it please the Commission, we will mark the tracing Commission Exhibit No. 882, and not take it out, since the cardboard represents it, and place Commission Exhibit No. 883 on the cardboard drawing itself, and I would like to move for the admission into evidence of both Exhibits Nos. 882 and 883.

The CHAIRMAN. They may be admitted.

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http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...mp;#entry147802

Post #34

Wasn’t the vehicle (average) velocity and the (various) shot timings based on the frame speed of the of the cine camera used to film the assassination by Zapruder.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/shaneyf2.htm

Mr. SPECTER. And does a 42-frame count have any significance with respect to the firing time on the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; we have established that the Zapruder motion picture camera operates at an average speed of 18.3 frames per second. And we have been advised that the minimum time for firing the rifle in successive shots is approximately two and a quarter seconds. So this gives us then a figure of two and a quarter seconds of frames; at 18.3, this gives us this figure of 41 to 42 frames.

Representative FORD. Would you repeat that again, please?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. The camera operates at a speed of 18.3 frames per second. So that in two and a quarter seconds it would run through about 42--41 to 42 frames.

Representative FORD. Then the firing of the rifle, repeat that again?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. As to the firing of the rifle we have been advised that the minimum time for getting off two successive well-aimed shots on the rifle is approximately two and a quarter seconds. That is the basis for using this 41 to 42 frames to establish two points in the film where two successive quick shots could have been fired.

---------------------------------

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; because we were able to determine the speed of the camera, and thereby accurately determine the length of time it takes for a specific number of frames to run through the camera at this 18.3 frames per second, and having located these frame positions in the street, we took the farthest distance point we had in the Zapruder film which was frame 161 through frame 313.

This was found to run elapsed time from the film standpoint which runs at 18.3 frames a second, runs for a total of 8.3 seconds.

This distance is 136.1 feet, and this can be calculated then to 11.2 miles per hour.

Mr. SPECTER. Is that a constant average speed or does that speed reflect any variations in the movement of the car?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is the overall average from 161 to 313. It does not mean that it was traveling constantly at 11.2, because it was more than likely going faster in some areas and slightly slower in some areas. It is only an average speed over the entire run.

Mr. DULLES. Over the entire run between what points?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Between frame 161 and 313.

Mr. DULLES. Yes; but where, could you place that on that chart, for example?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes.

Mr. DULLES. And describe the points?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. This is frame 161 which is the frame where they have just gone under the tree, to frame 313 which is the shot to the head. So that it is that distance there which is 136.1 feet.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Speed = Distance travelled/elapsed time.

Nothing new here: http://www.vascar.com/

About the only trouble being that "time" as determined by the WC, is a derivative of elapsed frames of the Z-film, divided by 18.3.

Therefore, any increase in frames of the film, by it's nature, would generate a slower vehicle speed.

And, any deletion of frames of the film, by it's nature, would generate a faster vehicle speed.

And therein lies the answer to many questions as regards the Z-film

Likewise, if one is utilizing the Z-film exposed frames as an indicator of when a shot may have been fired, then, one can either cause one to overlook a potential shot merely by deletion of a few frames of the film.

To date, few have come to recognize the importance of certain evidence as it relates to he Z-film.

And, merely because one finds a "key" to unlock one door, it does not mean that the treasure will be immediately found, as there are many doors to find and unlock.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/gauthier.htm

Mr. GAUTHIER. Yes; the tracing is wrapped, and sealed in this container.

Mr. SPECTER. Without breaking the seal, I will ask you if the cardboard which has been set up here--may the record show it is a large cardboard. I will ask you for the dimensions in just a minute.

Mr. SPECTER. May it please the Commission, we will mark the tracing Commission Exhibit No. 882, and not take it out, since the cardboard represents it, and place Commission Exhibit No. 883 on the cardboard drawing itself, and I would like to move for the admission into evidence of both Exhibits Nos. 882 and 883.

The CHAIRMAN. They may be admitted.

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464a.htm

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464b.htm

For benefit of those who have not caught on yet and are still considerably lost and meandering around in the Rabbit Holes, this is the "Pro's".

In event that you wish to play the WC Obfuscation Game, might I recommend that a good training session in some of the other well developed "mind games" would serve to sharpen one's skills prior to entry into the maze.

For those who are new, much of this was long ago posted and JFK Lancer was allowed to publish it as well.

It is also now on deposit at the Mary Ferrell site.

Yet, as long as it has been in the public domain, few (if any) have yet to understand the actual significance of it, as well as to why it was "allowed" to be revealed.

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It would be remiss to not point out:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/shaneyf2.htm

Mr. SHANEYFELT. The first position we established that morning was frame 161.

------------------------------------------------

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A...anguage=printer

VERNON TER., 6125-Lyndal L. Shaneyfelt to James H. and Jennifer O. Rooney, $1.4 million.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Tom,

Interesting attachments.

I found this info regarding Mr Zapruders camera:

Film Velocity/Frame Rate:

The question of frame rate of the Zapruder camera was an important technical consideration of the FBI in their investigation of the timing of the three shots. The FBI reported that their studies showed the camera to be operating at 18.3 fps, or 2.3 fps fast according to the (then) published standard and the reference in the owner's manual.

Evolution of Standards to Higher Frame Rates: It has been acknowledged that Bell & Howell's and Eastman Kodak's engineering practice for cameras moved toward 18 fps in the late 50s, and that this velocity was not uncommon in USA practice. The committee action to change standards takes time. The published standard for camera velocity in use in 1963 issued in 1954. Standards reflect practice and the evolutionary change to the higher frame rate of 18 frames per second was subsequently recognized in American National Standards that issued in October of 1964 , for Camera and Projector Usage - PH22. 21 and PH22.22. Bell & Howell testing confirmed that the Zapruder camera operated at slightly faster than 18fps - meeting the requirements of the revised standard.

Taken From:

DISSECTING THE ZAPRUDER BELL & HOWELL

8mm MOVIE CAMERA

Outline of a Presentation to the Movie Machine Society

Toronto Conference, 10/24/98

by Roland J. Zavada

I have promised myself a visit to Dealy plaza sometime in the near future.

If I wanted to repeat Mr Zapruders historic film with a modern Camcorder. I’m sure it would be feasible (the running speed of the Camcorder would have to be known) the topography of the plaza hasn’t changed. My problem would be in enticing two of the younger members of my family to join me to help with the experiment.

(i) I would have to pick up the whole tab as they have shown little interest in the JFK assassination no matter how much I’ve coaxed them.

(ii) I would have to hire an open top car (no problem there) and have one of them drive at about 12 MPH (I see a big problem here) whilst the other lifted an arm at predetermined points.

(iii) They would have to drive at this speed in the lane closest to the grassed central reservation (The left hand lane) which in England is the overtaking lane. This may cause consternation to other motorists or even a ticket from a traffic cop.

Could be worth the effort.

Chris Brown.

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And, Door#2, of itself, provides us with the next key to Door#3.

Of which at least one is very, very close to unlocking!

Personally, I do love this game!

Actually!

One may require multiple keys in order to unlock the final door to the "treasure".

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0447a.htm

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0464a.htm

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/

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Tom,

Interesting attachments.

I found this info regarding Mr Zapruders camera:

Film Velocity/Frame Rate:

The question of frame rate of the Zapruder camera was an important technical consideration of the FBI in their investigation of the timing of the three shots. The FBI reported that their studies showed the camera to be operating at 18.3 fps, or 2.3 fps fast according to the (then) published standard and the reference in the owner's manual.

Evolution of Standards to Higher Frame Rates: It has been acknowledged that Bell & Howell's and Eastman Kodak's engineering practice for cameras moved toward 18 fps in the late 50s, and that this velocity was not uncommon in USA practice. The committee action to change standards takes time. The published standard for camera velocity in use in 1963 issued in 1954. Standards reflect practice and the evolutionary change to the higher frame rate of 18 frames per second was subsequently recognized in American National Standards that issued in October of 1964 , for Camera and Projector Usage - PH22. 21 and PH22.22. Bell & Howell testing confirmed that the Zapruder camera operated at slightly faster than 18fps - meeting the requirements of the revised standard.

Taken From:

DISSECTING THE ZAPRUDER BELL & HOWELL

8mm MOVIE CAMERA

Outline of a Presentation to the Movie Machine Society

Toronto Conference, 10/24/98

by Roland J. Zavada

I have promised myself a visit to Dealy plaza sometime in the near future.

If I wanted to repeat Mr Zapruders historic film with a modern Camcorder. I’m sure it would be feasible (the running speed of the Camcorder would have to be known) the topography of the plaza hasn’t changed. My problem would be in enticing two of the younger members of my family to join me to help with the experiment.

(i) I would have to pick up the whole tab as they have shown little interest in the JFK assassination no matter how much I’ve coaxed them.

(ii) I would have to hire an open top car (no problem there) and have one of them drive at about 12 MPH (I see a big problem here) whilst the other lifted an arm at predetermined points.

(iii) They would have to drive at this speed in the lane closest to the grassed central reservation (The left hand lane) which in England is the overtaking lane. This may cause consternation to other motorists or even a ticket from a traffic cop.

Could be worth the effort.

Chris Brown.

The 6th Floor Museum did not allow Roland Zavada to use the Zapruder B&H414 camera for the test film he shot for his report... So, Zavada acquired 4 of them (most with serial numbers close to old Abe's camera) for the DP test. David Lifton related a fascinating story regarding the first attempt Zavada's group undertook re Dealey Plaza film test shoot. Talk about klutzes....

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