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EOP v. Cowlick


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Tom, you should look into becoming a Republican Party spokesman. My how you love to spin!

What I claimed was not "done" was photographing the skull with pieces of bone re-inserted. Autopsy photographs are taken at various stages of dissection, not re-construction. Your attempt to make it look like I was claiming skulls were not reconstructed by morticians is silly and not particularly appreciated.

You still haven't explained the apparent bullet hole on the forehead in your interpretation of the photo. You still haven't compared the x-ray of the large fragment containing the only beveled exit observed at the autopsy with the photo which you claim shows this exit after the bone was re-inserted into the skull. If you did you'd see that they are not the same exit.

Note here that in his WC testimony Humes discusses the pieces of bone brought into the autopsy, and the discovery of an exit on one of the pieces of bone. Note that he says they x-rayed this piece of bone. Note that he says NOTHING about reinserting this piece of bone into the skull and taking pictures of it in place.

Commander HUMES - I mentioned previously that there was a large bony defect. Some time later on that evening or very early the next morning while we were all still engaged in continuing our examination, I was presented with three portions of bone which had been brought to Washington from Dallas by the agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

These were--

Mr. SPECTER - Might that have been by a Secret Service agent?

Commander HUMES - It could be, sir; these things.

Mr. SPECTER - At any rate, someone presented thee three pieces of bone to you?

Commander HUMES - Someone presented these three pieces of bone to me, I do not recall specifically their statement as to where they had been recovered. It seems to me they felt it had been recovered either in the street or in the automobile, I don't recall specifically.

We were most interested in these fragments of bone, and found that the three pieces could be roughly put together to account for a portion of this defect.

Mr. SPECTER - How much remained unaccounted for, Dr. Humes?

Commander HUMES - I would estimate that approximately one-quarter of that defect was unaccounted for by adding these three fragments together and seeing what was left.

This is somewhat difficult, because as back to when we were actually looking for the fragments of metal, as we moved the scalp about, fragments of various sizes would fall to the table, and so forth, so it was difficult to put that exact figure into words.

However, the thing which we considered of importance about these three fragments of bone was that at the margins of one of them which was roughly pyramidal in shape, there was a portion of the circumference of what we interpreted as a missile wound. We thus interpreted it this because there was, the size was, sufficiently large for us, for it to have the curve of the skull still evident. At the point of this defect, and I will draw both tables of the bone in this defect, at the area which we interpreted as the margin of a missile wound, there was a shelving of the margin. This would, to us, mean that a missile had made this wound from within the skull to the exterior. To confirm that this was a missile wound, X-rays were made of that fragment of bone, which showed radio-opaque material consistent and similar in character to the particles seen within the skull to be deposited in the margins of this defect, in this portion of the bone.

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Tom, you should look into becoming a Republican Party spokesman. My how you love to spin!

Perhaps that is why you apparantly dislike the Republican Party! They too confuse you with the facts.

And then continue to confuse you with everything else.

If, and when, you should ever get persons who possess the acadamic and professional qualilfications and background, as well as experience, to "sign off" on you "Alice in Wonderland" scenario's, then be sure and come back to visit.

Until then, I will continue to stick with what I learned from Dr. Boswell, coupled with those reviews of onformation by:

a. A Medical Examiner

b. A Firearms & Toolmark Examiner for the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation

c. A retired Special Agent of the FBI

d. A Military Surgeon and avid hunter who knows lots about weapons; bullets; and ballistics;

e. A Minister of a prominent denominational church.

f. Every other person with the smallest amount of common sense who has reviewed the information.

My how you love to spin!

Perhaps so! However, at least I do not "flip" while spinning, As in flipped/reverse image photographs and attempting to resolve injuries sustained to the back of JFK's head while looking at a photograph that is actually of the front of the head and has been printed in "reverse image" photography.

Must have slept through the instructional doctrine on that method of problem resolution.

Was that course entitled: "Crystal Ball imagery interpretation, as applied to the WAG and Amazing Kresgin methods of factual research?

What I claimed was not

Back to the point of order if you would Pat.

What you "CLAIMED" was that the great "Mystery Photograph" was a photograph which demonstrated the back of JFK's head.

When, the simple reality is that it is a photograph which demonstrates the skull area in the right parietal/parietal-frontal hemisphere of the skull with the scalp reflected back over the left.

Now, it would appear that you are making some attempt to "weasel" out of that claim and now convert it to claiming that no photographs were taken during the reconstructions of the skull .

Something else which you also know nothing about.

Like I stated!

If and when you ever get around to understanding and recognizing what your "Mystery Photograph" actually is, then come back and visit.

Until then, it is about like talking to somone about the Bow of the boat, when they have no idea as to which end that represents.

And, it is completely "silly" to attempt to explain any of it to you until such time as you have come to recognize "fore from aft" and up from down.

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Pat;

Do you just go into the closet and lock yourself up and dream up these things, or are you being "lead" deep down into fantasyland by others who know how to lead the uninformed?

One thing appears for certain!

That being the simple fact that you quite apparantly do not consider discussions of the evidence with those persons who have "first person" experience of any benefit.

Now, if recalled correctly, Dr. Wecht "was there" (HSCA), spoke with the autopsy surgeons, reviewed the photographic evidence; etc;.

For the enjoyment of the reading public would you like to divulge exactly how much new information he divulged to you in your conversations and discussions with him?

What! You mean that you have never even spoken with Dr. Wecht?

Exactly who was it that you disucssed these great "Mystery Photographs" with? The neighbor's dog?

Most curious that Dr. Wecht, who WAS THERE; spoke with the autopsy surgeons, and reviewed the medical evidence to include the X-rays and autopsy photographs, could not determine what you have (in your mind at least) resolved.

Perhaps we will just have to speak with AMA, etc; and remove Dr. Wecht's MD as well as his forensic pathologist qualifications.

He certainly fooled me when he so informed me that no evidence of impact to the head of JFK could be found, other than shots fired from and impacting from the rear of the head.

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1. Dr. Russell Buhite

2. Dr. Jack Doyle

3. Dr. William Eckert

4. Dr. Fred Jordan

5. Dr. Thomas Noguchi

6. Dr. Malcolm Perry

7. Dr. Robert Ringrose

8. Dr. Clyde Snow

9. Dr. Charles Wilbur

10. Dr. Cyril Wecht

Now Pat!

In addition to my many discussions with Dr. Boswell, I have also communicated directly with and/or as well as personally spoken with each and ever one of the above personnel in attempt to unravel the confusion of the JFK Medical evidence.

So! Long before you locked yourself up in some closet and began your "Crystal Ball" imagery interpretation of the "Mystery Photograph", I was corresponding with and speaking with those persons who have "First Person" knowledge of evaluation of medical; forensic; pathological; and anthropoligical evidence in the death of JFK.

Perhaps if you were to install a "light" in that closet, an entire new world of knowledge may actually reveal itself to you.

But then again, perhaps not!

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For those who preference the "multiple choice" type of examination.

One of the drawn lines represents the impact to the head of JFK by the Z313 shot.

The second drawn line representes the impact to the head of JFk by the shot which impacted approximately 30-feet farther down Elm St. (Survey stationing 4+95) when JFK was leaned over to his left as well as doubled over forward with the back of his head in an almost horizontal plane, with his face turned slightly to the right and upwards.

P.S. For those such as Pat Speer, I have also included assistance in determination of the answer.

P.P.S. One would not want to neglect to include the fact that the third/last/final shot also penetrated through the coat of JFK just below the collar, prior to exiting and stricking in the hairline.

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What I claimed was not "done" was photographing the skull with pieces of bone re-inserted. Autopsy photographs are taken at various stages of dissection, not re-construction.

Note here that in his WC testimony Humes discusses the pieces of bone brought into the autopsy, and the discovery of an exit on one of the pieces of bone. Note that he says they x-rayed this piece of bone. Note that he says NOTHING about reinserting this piece of bone into the skull and taking pictures of it in place.

Commander HUMES - I mentioned previously that there was a large bony defect. Some time later on that evening or very early the next morning while we were all still engaged in continuing our examination, I was presented with three portions of bone which had been brought to Washington from Dallas by the agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

These were--

Mr. SPECTER - Might that have been by a Secret Service agent?

Commander HUMES - It could be, sir; these things.

Mr. SPECTER - At any rate, someone presented thee three pieces of bone to you?

Commander HUMES - Someone presented these three pieces of bone to me, I do not recall specifically their statement as to where they had been recovered. It seems to me they felt it had been recovered either in the street or in the automobile, I don't recall specifically.

We were most interested in these fragments of bone, and found that the three pieces could be roughly put together to account for a portion of this defect.

Mr. SPECTER - How much remained unaccounted for, Dr. Humes?

Commander HUMES - I would estimate that approximately one-quarter of that defect was unaccounted for by adding these three fragments together and seeing what was left.

This is somewhat difficult, because as back to when we were actually looking for the fragments of metal, as we moved the scalp about, fragments of various sizes would fall to the table, and so forth, so it was difficult to put that exact figure into words.

However, the thing which we considered of importance about these three fragments of bone was that at the margins of one of them which was roughly pyramidal in shape, there was a portion of the circumference of what we interpreted as a missile wound. We thus interpreted it this because there was, the size was, sufficiently large for us, for it to have the curve of the skull still evident. At the point of this defect, and I will draw both tables of the bone in this defect, at the area which we interpreted as the margin of a missile wound, there was a shelving of the margin. This would, to us, mean that a missile had made this wound from within the skull to the exterior. To confirm that this was a missile wound, X-rays were made of that fragment of bone, which showed radio-opaque material consistent and similar in character to the particles seen within the skull to be deposited in the margins of this defect, in this portion of the bone.

][/quote

Pat, you may well be right in saying that autopsy photographs are not NORMALLY taken during reconstruction. But with this being such a high profile case and this particular piece of evidence being of such vital importance, it seems extremely likely, IMO, that exceptions were made and photographs were in fact taken during reconstruction, do you not agree? Denis.

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And for Mike Williams:

"A" represents that portion of the Skull (cap) of JFK's head that was removed (blown off and over to the side) as a result of the Z313 impact, and which portion of bone can be seen shortly after the Z313 impact, laying over onto the right hand side of JFK's head.

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z330.jpg

I happened to be looking right at him when that bullet hit him - the second shot.

Mr. LIEBELER - That was when the bullet hit him in the head; is that correct?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; it looked like it ht him somewhere along about a little bit behind the ear and a little bit above the ear.

Mr. LIEBELER - On the right-hand side or the left-hand side?

Mr. HUDSON - Right hand.

Mr. LIEBELER - But you think the President had already been hit in the head by the time the third shot was fired?

Mr. HUDSON - He had been hit twice, so Parkland Hospital said. He was hit in the neck one time and in the head one time.

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"B" represents that area of the skull which extends down into the occipital region which was fractured as a result of the Stationing 4+95/aka Altgens/aka third shot impact.

This area of the skull, even though also remaining attached to the scalp, was what was opened up with the damage to the rear of the head being observed by the Parkland Personnel, and is responsible for the big "blowout"/aka exit out the rear of the head theories.

In fact, it is truly not even difficult to locate the EOP entry into the skull on this.

All that one has to do is follow the lines back to point of origin. (b1 and b2)

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http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0032a.htm

And, although b1 and b2 will not completely lead one to the "promised land". They at least help insure that one is on the correct road to get there.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0036b.htm

Especially if one will come out of the closet and discuss these issues with one of the autopsy surgeons.

Besides the fact of relatively well demonstrating that the late; great; "Mystery Photo" could not physically be a photograph of the rear of JFK's head.

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Pat, you may well be right in saying that autopsy photographs are not NORMALLY taken during reconstruction. But with this being such a high profile case and this particular piece of evidence being of such vital importance, it seems extremely likely, IMO, that exceptions were made and photographs were in fact taken during reconstruction, do you not agree? Denis.

Denis, if there were dozens of different set-ups taken during the autopsy, to record it as an historical event, it seems possible some would have been taken during reconstruction. However, there were only seven or eight different poses. This makes it absolutely unthinkable that a close-up photograph of the back of the head and bullet entrance (the mystery photo as testified to by the doctors, and as catalogued for the National Archives) would be skipped over in favor of a photo of the forehead after a piece of bone (a piece of bone not even known to the doctors during the initial dissection) was re-inserted into the skull. Absolutely unthinkable.

As for you, Tom, I'm sorry to upset your apple-cart, but mentioning a photo to a doctor means diddley! If you had signed-statements from these doctors asserting that they have STUDIED the case and agree with your interpretation that would be one thing. But you do not. Even worse, the one doctor you cite ad nauseum -- Dr. Boswell--DID NOT agree with your interpretation, and completely rejected that there was any entrance in the cowlick, as you purport. Here is his discussion of the mystery photo with the ARRB.

Gunn. To me as a lay person, it appears as if in November of 1966, View 7 is being described as an entrance wound, and in January of 1967, two months later, it's being described as an exit wound. First, do you have any reason for thinking that my understanding is inaccurate? Is there a switch in how those two photographs are described?

Boswell. Yes, I agree, and I have no explanation for that. I think they were both wrong, and I think the reason is that it's just such a terrible photograph.

As you can see, Boswell had a chance to say the photo was taken from the front, with the bone re-inserted into the skull, but failed to do so. His rejection of the photo as it was described in November 1966, moreover, comes from the assumption of Gunn and himself that the wound described as an entrance was the beveled piece of bone in the center of the photo, and not the bullet entrance in the margins, and on the forehead in your interpretation. That entrance remains unnoticed. (As the photographs on the internet come from SS photographs made within a week of the assassination, it seems possible that the bullet wound in the photograph has been removed from the photos in the Archives. It seems more likely, however, that it has been over-looked by those studying the photograph, due to the shared but incorrect assumption that the beveled bone in the center of the photo is the focus of the photo.)

FWIW, in his ARRB deposition, Boswell distinctly remembered a photo being taken of the back of the head showing "tunneling". This is clearly the "tunneling" visible in the photo, the "tunneling" which, in your interpretation, is on the FOREHEAD. He also discounted that any photos were missing. This indicates that he, at least on some level, knew full well that the mystery photo was a photo of the back of the head, displaying "tunneling".

Gunn. There are additional descriptions of photographs showing--described as showing the entrance wound in the skull from both the exterior and the interior with the scalp reflected. Do you remember any photographs with the scalp reflected showing the wound of entrance in the skull?

Boswell. Well, I seem to remember a couple of photographs. That might be one, and particularly one showing the beveling of that same wound--or not beveling, but the tunneling. But I can't imagine that there are any photographs missing. Numerical- wise, are they all here?

Amazingly, Humes and Finck shared his assessment! Both agreed there'd been a photo of the back of the head, and refused to commit to whether or not the mystery photo was that photo. They also remembered taking a photo of the inside of the skull, which seems to be missing. Unfortunately for your pet theory, however, none of them EVER described the taking of a photo of the front of the head, with a piece of bone re-inserted into the skull, showing the beveled exit.

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http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0032a.htm

The "operative" words/wording would be:

1. "tangential to the surface of the scalp"

2. "measuring 15 X 6 mm"

P.S. I did inform you that the EOP entry also created a bullet passageway through the vicinity of the coat collar of JFK prior to exiting and striking at the hairline at the base of the skull, did I not?

Mr. SPECTER - How about the upper one of the collar you have described, does that go all the way through?

Commander HUMES - Yes, sir; it goes all the way through. It is not--wait a minute, excuse me it is not so clearly a puncture wound as the one below.

Mr. SPECTER - Does the upper one go all the way through in the same course?

Commander HUMES - No.

Mr. SPECTER - Through the inner side as it went through the outer side?

Commander HUMES - No, in an irregular fashion.

http://www.jfklancer.com/ClarkPanel.html

A smaller ragged hole, which is located near the midline and about 4 cm. below the upper edge of the collar, does not overlie any corresponding damage to the shirt or skin and appears to be unrelated to the wounds or their causation.

=============================================================================

"apperances can be deceiving", especially when one has already been deceived!

Ask your questions Mike!

Rest assured that if I have to make up an answer that it will be far better than attempting to pass off a "reverse image" printed photograph and attempting to sell it to you as representing he rear of JFK's head.

P.P.S. Mr. Speer was long ago informed that in the event that he ever came to recognize the significane of an 15mm length elongated hole of entry, that he just may accidently understand something about the shooting.

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I happened to be looking right at him when that bullet hit him - the second shot.

Mr. LIEBELER - That was when the bullet hit him in the head; is that correct?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; it looked like it ht him somewhere along about a little bit behind the ear and a little bit above the ear.

Mr. LIEBELER - On the right-hand side or the left-hand side?

Mr. HUDSON - Right hand.

Mr. LIEBELER - But you think the President had already been hit in the head by the time the third shot was fired?

Mr. HUDSON - He had been hit twice, so Parkland Hospital said. He was hit in the neck one time and in the head one time.

Tom, by editing Hudson's words in that way, are you attempting to confuse people into thinking Hudson's recollections support your theory that Kennedy was hit in the head after the head shot at 313? if so, shame on you. Hudson said no such thing, and you know it!

Mr. LIEBELER - And after you saw him hit in the head, did you hear another shot?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see that shot hit anything - the third shot?

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir. I'll tell you - this young fellow that was sitting there with me - standing there with me at the present time, he says, "lay down, Mister, somebody is shooting the President." He says, "Lay down, lay down." and he kept repeating, "Lay down." so he was already laying down one way on the sidewalk, so I just laid down over on the ground and resting my arm on the ground and when that third shot rung out and when I was close to the ground - you could tell the shot was coming from above and kind of behind.

Mr. LIEBELER - How could you tell that?

Mr. HUDSON - Well, just the sound of it.

Mr. LIEBELER - You heard it come from sort of behind the motorcade and then above?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; I don't know if you have ever laid down close to the ground, you know, when you heard the reports coming, but it's a whole lot plainer than it is when you are standing up in the air.

Mr. LIEBELER - You were standing down here where we put the "X"?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - You say when the President was hit in the head he was up here by the first lamppost on the right-hand side of the post that shows in the picture?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; right along in here.

Mr. LIEBELER - That's when he got hit in the head?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; I think so.

Mr. LIEBELER - Are you sure about that?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir; I am.

Mr. LIEBELER - So you had to look up Elm Street?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; I was looking up this way, you see. You see [indicating on photograph], that's the motorcade car right there isn't it?

Mr. LIEBELER - Yes; the picture that we are looking at here is a picture of a re-enactment of the scene.

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; so right along about even with these steps, pretty close to even with this here, the last shot was fired - somewhere right along in there.

Mr. LIEBELER - You think the last shot was fired and the car was about where it actually is in that picture when the third shot was fired?

Mr. HUDSON - Pretty close to it; yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - But you think the President had already been hit in the head by the time the third shot was fired?

Mr. HUDSON - He had been hit twice, so Parkland Hospital said. He was hit in the neck one time and in the head one time.

Mr. LIEBELER - When the first shot was fired, were you looking at the presidential car then; could you see it then?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; it was coming around - it had just got around the corner,you see, from off of Houston Street, making that corner there, come off of Houston onto Elm.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did it look to you like the President was hit by the first shot?

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; I don't think so - I sure don't.

Mr. LIEBELER - You don't think he got hit by the first shot?

Mr. HUDSON - No.

Mr. LIEBELER - You say it was the second shot that hit him in the head?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - What happened after the President got hit in the head, did you see what he did, what happened in the car?

Mr. HUDSON - He slumped over and Mrs. Kennedy, she climbs over in the seat with him and pulls him over.

Mr. LIEBELER - Pulled him down in the seat?

Mr. HUDSON - Pulled him over in her lap like.

Mr. LIEBELER - If you don't think the President got hit by the first shot and you say he got hit in the head with the second shot -

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - And if we assume that he was shot twice, you would have to say that he was hit by the third shot; isn't that right?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - He was hit again after he got hit in the head?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - Do you think that could have been possible when Mrs. Kennedy pulled him over, do you think he could have got hit in the neck after he had been hit in the head?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes sir; I do

Mr. LIEBELER - He was still sitting far enough up in the car he could have been hit?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you watch the President after he got hit in the head like that?

Mr. HUDSON - Well as soon as everybody realized what had happened, you know, everybody went to going up the hill so we did too.

Mr. LIEBELER - So you only saw the President hit once; is that right, sir?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir; I just saw him hit once.

Mr. LIEBELER - That was in the head?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - And you aren't able to say from your own observation when he was hit in the neck?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - If he was hit in the neck.

Edited by Pat Speer
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Hey Pat!

2,000 (+) fps bullets do not "tunnel" through the bone of the skull. The either punch holes through it or blow it to pieces.

They do however "tunnel" through the soft tissue at the base of the skull, which is in fact what the autopsy surgeons were discussing and so informing the HSCA panel.

The bullet struck the scalp in the edge of the hairline!

The bullet "tunnelled" (upwards when head held erect/horizontally downwards when he head is bent forwards) through the soft tissue of the neck.

To ultimately strike the skull at a point slighty above (with the head held erect) the vicinity of the EOP.

As I have repeatedly stated.

As soon as you come to recognize the fallacies as well as the general lack of research on your part in attempting to persuade that Photo# 44 is of the rear of JFK's head, then you may actually learn something.

However, as also stated, since I long ago informed you that the significance of the elongated (15mm length) of the wound of entry through the skull was also of critical relevance.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0036a.htm

Now! Perhaps your educational system did not sufficently explain the various "planes" in which we exist.

However, those of us who took higher than ninth grade math fully recognize that "upwards and to the left", can also be "downwards and from right to left".

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0036a.htm

And, since the bullet which struck JFK in the scalp at the edge of the hairline also penetrated through his coat collar prior to striking the skull at a point higher than the entry into the scalp, after having "tunnelled" through the soft tissues at the base of the neck/skull, then we are faced to with one of two "Mysterious enigma's".

A. The CIA/FBI/SS (and whoever else you wish to include), had stashed a midget into the trunk of the presidential limo and he fired upwards through the trunk of the car, thus striking JFK in the right rear base of the head.

B. JFK's head was not in the position which it is in at the time of the Z313 impact, therefore, some other bullet struck JFK in the rear of the head while his head was in a completely different position than at Z313.

Oh, the dilemma!

Guess that one had best get out the ole "Crystal Ball" and WAG-mop!

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I happened to be looking right at him when that bullet hit him - the second shot.

Mr. LIEBELER - That was when the bullet hit him in the head; is that correct?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; it looked like it ht him somewhere along about a little bit behind the ear and a little bit above the ear.

Mr. LIEBELER - On the right-hand side or the left-hand side?

Mr. HUDSON - Right hand.

Mr. LIEBELER - But you think the President had already been hit in the head by the time the third shot was fired?

Mr. HUDSON - He had been hit twice, so Parkland Hospital said. He was hit in the neck one time and in the head one time.

Tom, by editing Hudson's words in that way, are you attempting to confuse people into thinking Hudson's recollections support your theory that Kennedy was hit in the head after the head shot at 313? if so, shame on you. Hudson said no such thing, and you know it!

Mr. LIEBELER - And after you saw him hit in the head, did you hear another shot?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see that shot hit anything - the third shot?

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir. I'll tell you - this young fellow that was sitting there with me - standing there with me at the present time, he says, "lay down, Mister, somebody is shooting the President." He says, "Lay down, lay down." and he kept repeating, "Lay down." so he was already laying down one way on the sidewalk, so I just laid down over on the ground and resting my arm on the ground and when that third shot rung out and when I was close to the ground - you could tell the shot was coming from above and kind of behind.

Mr. LIEBELER - How could you tell that?

Mr. HUDSON - Well, just the sound of it.

Mr. LIEBELER - You heard it come from sort of behind the motorcade and then above?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; I don't know if you have ever laid down close to the ground, you know, when you heard the reports coming, but it's a whole lot plainer than it is when you are standing up in the air.

Mr. LIEBELER - You were standing down here where we put the "X"?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - You say when the President was hit in the head he was up here by the first lamppost on the right-hand side of the post that shows in the picture?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; right along in here.

Mr. LIEBELER - That's when he got hit in the head?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; I think so.

Mr. LIEBELER - Are you sure about that?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir; I am.

Mr. LIEBELER - So you had to look up Elm Street?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; I was looking up this way, you see. You see [indicating on photograph], that's the motorcade car right there isn't it?

Mr. LIEBELER - Yes; the picture that we are looking at here is a picture of a re-enactment of the scene.

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; so right along about even with these steps, pretty close to even with this here, the last shot was fired - somewhere right along in there.

Mr. LIEBELER - You think the last shot was fired and the car was about where it actually is in that picture when the third shot was fired?

Mr. HUDSON - Pretty close to it; yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - But you think the President had already been hit in the head by the time the third shot was fired?

Mr. HUDSON - He had been hit twice, so Parkland Hospital said. He was hit in the neck one time and in the head one time.

Mr. LIEBELER - When the first shot was fired, were you looking at the presidential car then; could you see it then?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; it was coming around - it had just got around the corner,you see, from off of Houston Street, making that corner there, come off of Houston onto Elm.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did it look to you like the President was hit by the first shot?

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; I don't think so - I sure don't.

Mr. LIEBELER - You don't think he got hit by the first shot?

Mr. HUDSON - No.

Mr. LIEBELER - You say it was the second shot that hit him in the head?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - What happened after the President got hit in the head, did you see what he did, what happened in the car?

Mr. HUDSON - He slumped over and Mrs. Kennedy, she climbs over in the seat with him and pulls him over.

Mr. LIEBELER - Pulled him down in the seat?

Mr. HUDSON - Pulled him over in her lap like.

Mr. LIEBELER - If you don't think the President got hit by the first shot and you say he got hit in the head with the second shot -

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - And if we assume that he was shot twice, you would have to say that he was hit by the third shot; isn't that right?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - He was hit again after he got hit in the head?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - Do you think that could have been possible when Mrs. Kennedy pulled him over, do you think he could have got hit in the neck after he had been hit in the head?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes sir; I do

Mr. LIEBELER - He was still sitting far enough up in the car he could have been hit?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you watch the President after he got hit in the head like that?

Mr. HUDSON - Well as soon as everybody realized what had happened, you know, everybody went to going up the hill so we did too.

Mr. LIEBELER - So you only saw the President hit once; is that right, sir?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir; I just saw him hit once.

Mr. LIEBELER - That was in the head?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - And you aren't able to say from your own observation when he was hit in the neck?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - If he was hit in the neck.

================================================================================

Mr. HUDSON -I happened to be looking right at him when that bullet hit him - the second shot.

Mr. LIEBELER - That was when the bullet hit him in the head; is that correct?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; it looked like it ht him somewhere along about a little bit behind the ear and a little bit above the ear.

Mr. LIEBELER - On the right-hand side or the left-hand side?

Mr. HUDSON - Right hand.

Mr. LIEBELER - And after you saw him hit in the head, did you here another shot?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see that shot hit anything - the third shot?

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir. I'll tell you - this young fellow that was sitting there with me - standing there with me at the present time, he says, "lay down, Mister, somebody is shooting the President." He says, "Lay down, lay down." and he kept repeating, "Lay down." so he was already laying down one way on the sidewalk, so I just laid down over on the ground and resting my arm on the ground and when that third shot rung out and when I was close to the ground - you could tell the shot was coming from above and kind of behind.

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; so right along about even with these steps, pretty close to even with this here, the last shot was fired - somewhere right along in there.

======================================

Mr. ALTGENS -There was not another shot fired after the President was struck in the head. That was the last shot--that much I will say with a great degree of certainty.

Mr. LIEBELER - What makes you so certain of that, Mr. Altgens?

Mr. ALTGENS - Because, having heard these shots and then having seen the damage that was done on this shot to the President's head, I was aware at that time that shooting was taking place and there was not a shot--I looked--I looked because I knew the shot had to come from either over here, if it were close range, or had to come from a high-powered rifle.

Mr. ALTGENS- I had refocused to 15 feet because I wanted a good closeup of the President and Mrs. Kennedy, and that's why I know that it would be right at 15 feet, because I had prefocused in that area, and I had my camera almost to my eye when it happened and that's as far as I got with my camera.

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z350.jpg

Mr. ALTGENS -There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing,

==============================================================================

That happens to be one of the primary problems with out educational system.

People do not read; review; and cross-check all of their homework assignments.

Had you done so Pat, then you would have known that James Altgens, who observed the THIRD/LAST/FINAL shot fired, strike JFK in the head, then you too "would have learned".

As well as the simple fact that James Altgens was well in excess of 35 feet farther down Elm St. from the Z313 impact, which placed him almost directly across the street from Mr. Hudson and those "steps".

To Include the simple fact that it was physically impossible for James Altgens to have observed the Z313 impact to the head of JFK as a result of the considerably lower street elevation at which he was standing as well as Nellie Connally having been in any potential direct line of sight to JFK at the time of impact of the Z313 headshot.

You truly do need to attempt to go sell your hokum to those who know nothing about the assassination; medical evidence; as well as witness testimonies.

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