Moorman location poll

[Len Colby]

My answers

1) 2

2) 3

[Len Colby]

Let's see out of 16 valid votes 12 say she was on the grass, 3 people are unsure and only one, presumably Fetzer or White says she was in the street. So my question to Tink, Barb, Bill and Craig is, why bother?

[Barb Junkkarinen]

Let's see out of 16 valid votes 12 say she was on the grass, 3 people are unsure and only one, presumably Fetzer or White says she was in the street. So my question to Tink, Barb, Bill and Craig is, why bother?

Good point/question, Len! Unless someone ... anyone ... has a valid point to raise about anything in the essay (and if anyone on team Fetzer/White had one, we would have heard it immediately), there really isn't anything left to bother with on this particular issue. Resolution is rare in this arena on much of anything, while this one was a made up issue to begin with, at least it has been ... finally and definitively ... resolved. May it R.I.P.

Bests,

Barb :-)

[Nathaniel Heidenheimer]

I had been following the debate only lightly but have now formally switched into high gear and find it quite interesting.

For some, ANY protest is too much I guess.

[Bill Miller]

The whole Moorman being in the street idea was based on erroneous observations on Jack White's part. What amazes me is that it found a following who didn't care if the data it used to support its presumption of guilt was accurate or not. It simply was not a well thought out claim that was then supported by a through investigation for if that was the case, then there would have been no need for so many revisions as has been seen on this forum alone. The process they implemented was little more than throwing paint on a canvas and seeing what images they could claim to see. That's hardly scientific and certainly not supported by the laws of nature.

Occam's Razor

one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything

Occam's razor is a logical principle attributed to the mediaeval philosopher William of Occam (or Ockham).

The principle states that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed. This principle is often called the principle of parsimony. It underlies all scientific modelling and theory building. It admonishes us to choose from a set of otherwise equivalent models of a given phenomenon the simplest one. In any given model, Occam's razor helps us to "shave off" those concepts, variables or constructs that are not really needed to explain the phenomenon. By doing that, developing the model will become much easier, and there is less chance of introducing inconsistencies, ambiguities and redundancies.

Though the principle may seem rather trivial, it is essential for model building because of what is known as the "underdetermination of theories by data". For a given set of observations or data, there is always an infinite number of possible models explaining those same data. This is because a model normally represents an infinite number of possible cases, of which the observed cases are only a finite subset. The non-observed cases are inferred by postulating general rules covering both actual and potential observations.

For example, through two data points in a diagram you can always draw a straight line, and induce that all further observations will lie on that line. However, you could also draw an infinite variety of the most complicated curves passing through those same two points, and these curves would fit the empirical data just as well. Only Occam's razor would in this case guide you in choosing the "straight" (i.e. linear) relation as best candidate model. A similar reasoning can be made for n data points lying in any kind of distribution.

Occam's razor is especially important for universal models such as the ones developed in General Systems Theory, mathematics or philosophy, because there the subject domain is of an unlimited complexity. If one starts with too complicated foundations for a theory that potentially encompasses the universe, the chances of getting any manageable model are very slim indeed. Moreover, the principle is sometimes the only remaining guideline when entering domains of such a high level of abstraction that no concrete tests or observations can decide between rival models. In mathematical modelling of systems, the principle can be made more concrete in the form of the principle of uncertainty maximization: from your data, induce that model which minimizes the number of additional assumptions.

This principle is part of epistemology, and can be motivated by the requirement of maximal simplicity of cognitive models. However, its significance might be extended to metaphysics if it is interpreted as saying that simpler models are more likely to be correct than complex ones, in other words, that "nature" prefers simplicity.

[David G. Healy]

The whole Moorman being in the street idea was based on erroneous observations on Jack White's part. What amazes me is that it found a following who didn't care if the data it used to support its presumption of guilt was accurate or not. It simply was not a well thought out claim that was then supported by a through investigation for if that was the case, then there would have been no need for so many revisions as has been seen on this forum alone. The process they implemented was little more than throwing paint on a canvas and seeing what images they could claim to see. That's hardly scientific and certainly not supported by the laws of nature.

Occam's Razor

one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything

Occam's razor is a logical principle attributed to the mediaeval philosopher William of Occam (or Ockham).

The principle states that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed. This principle is often called the principle of parsimony. It underlies all scientific modelling and theory building. It admonishes us to choose from a set of otherwise equivalent models of a given phenomenon the simplest one. In any given model, Occam's razor helps us to "shave off" those concepts, variables or constructs that are not really needed to explain the phenomenon. By doing that, developing the model will become much easier, and there is less chance of introducing inconsistencies, ambiguities and redundancies.

Though the principle may seem rather trivial, it is essential for model building because of what is known as the "underdetermination of theories by data". For a given set of observations or data, there is always an infinite number of possible models explaining those same data. This is because a model normally represents an infinite number of possible cases, of which the observed cases are only a finite subset. The non-observed cases are inferred by postulating general rules covering both actual and potential observations.

For example, through two data points in a diagram you can always draw a straight line, and induce that all further observations will lie on that line. However, you could also draw an infinite variety of the most complicated curves passing through those same two points, and these curves would fit the empirical data just as well. Only Occam's razor would in this case guide you in choosing the "straight" (i.e. linear) relation as best candidate model. A similar reasoning can be made for n data points lying in any kind of distribution.

Occam's razor is especially important for universal models such as the ones developed in General Systems Theory, mathematics or philosophy, because there the subject domain is of an unlimited complexity. If one starts with too complicated foundations for a theory that potentially encompasses the universe, the chances of getting any manageable model are very slim indeed. Moreover, the principle is sometimes the only remaining guideline when entering domains of such a high level of abstraction that no concrete tests or observations can decide between rival models. In mathematical modelling of systems, the principle can be made more concrete in the form of the principle of uncertainty maximization: from your data, induce that model which minimizes the number of additional assumptions.

This principle is part of epistemology, and can be motivated by the requirement of maximal simplicity of cognitive models. However, its significance might be extended to metaphysics if it is interpreted as saying that simpler models are more likely to be correct than complex ones, in other words, that "nature" prefers simplicity.

BMiller wrote:

The whole Moorman being in the street idea was based on erroneous observations on Jack White's part.

Mary Moorman, herself is on-the-record stating: "she stepped onto Elm street" to take polaroid picture(s). Apology?

[Don Roberdeau]

....Thank You.... Hats off, and, really Top Notch Work extended for all of Team "Moorman-was-not-in-the-street-for-her-5th-photo"....

Simply, Outstanding.

IMHO, Always a non-issue with me, from its start, because the hypothesized, far-liberalized-with-its-shifting-to-fit-its-mistaken-assumptions-and-"facts," transparently-agendas-driven, condescending, oft times arrogant, edu-tard-elitist-spun claims of the proffered "facts" were, all, transparent to the vast majority of dedicated and macro-and-micro-facts-educated JFK researchers, from its very sloppy dropping by its heirs........ or........ as the solid, life-lessons educated, steadily working, rational, non-agendas-driven, never-psychotically-over-obsessed-with-injecting-politics, solid-facts-driven, dedicated researchers have said and will say, the "Mwnitsfh5p was, always, nothing but stinking B***S*** when the sun first rose on it."

Its sun has finally set.

**a suggestion for whomever developed the first question in the poll....IMHO, Please, next time, think about providing only 2 clearly defined answers.... A simple answer choice of "On the grass," and, a choice of, "in the street," would be much, much clearer and more definitive (if they are unsure and/or do not care, the voter can always come back to the poll and vote, if, and when, they are able to actually make a decision).... As it stands now at 21 votes, there are 16 total votes that have a clearly definitive answer....

88 % ....On the grass (14 votes)

12 % ....in the street (02)

Let us move solidly forward (for example, defining and supporting the timestamping of when President KENNEDY was first bullet impacted), so you and your precious time will avoid being immobilized by the Mwnitsfh5p shifting airs.... and its heirs-transparent.

Again, Gr8 job !

Best Regards in Research,

Don

Don Roberdeau

U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, "Big John," Plank Walker

Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges Clearly

For your considerations....

Visual Report: The First Impact: JFK While "Hidden Under the 'magic-limbed-ricochet-tree': Z-188, then, Z-203 to 206"

Discovery: Very Close JFK Assassination Witness ROSEMARY WILLIS Zapruder Film Documented 2nd Headsnap:

West, Ultrafast, and Directly Towards the Grassy Knoll

Homepage: President JOHN F. KENNEDY "Men of Courage" speech, and Assassination Research & Discovery Links

Dealey Plaza Professionally-surveyed Map: Detailing 11-22-63 Victims precise kill zone locations,

Witnesses, Films & Photos, Evidence, Suspects & suspected bullet trajectories, & Important

information & Considerations

Visual File: JFK Assassination Research, Maps, & Discoveries for Your Considerations

T ogether

E veryone

A chieves

M ore

National Terror Alert for the United States:

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/

Edited March 12, 2009 by Don Roberdeau

[Bill Miller]

The whole Moorman being in the street idea was based on erroneous observations on Jack White's part.

Mary Moorman, herself is on-the-record stating: "she stepped onto Elm street" to take polaroid picture(s). Apology?

Mary is also on record as saying that the kill shot was the first shot ... Bill Newman saying the President's ear flew off ... Sitzman thinking that a black couple was getting up off the bench immediately after Moorman took her photo, but they were obviously wrong. Even Jack had enough sense to know that he needed more and thats where he made some erroneous observations that were easily exposed as such.

Bill Miller

[David G. Healy]

The whole Moorman being in the street idea was based on erroneous observations on Jack White's part.

Mary Moorman, herself is on-the-record stating: "she stepped onto Elm street" to take polaroid picture(s). Apology?

Mary is also on record as saying that the kill shot was the first shot ... Bill Newman saying the President's ear flew off ... Sitzman thinking that a black couple was getting up off the bench immediately after Moorman took her photo, but they were obviously wrong. Even Jack had enough sense to know that he needed more and thats where he made some erroneous observations that were easily exposed as such.

Bill Miller

can't shuck and jive your way out of this one, son... I could care less what else Mary Moorman is on the record saying.... you blew it, and know it! An apology is in order!

[Bill Miller]

can't shuck and jive your way out of this one, son... I could care less what else Mary Moorman is on the record saying.... you blew it, and know it! An apology is in order!

Yes ... I would like to go on record as apologizing to those who have had to read David Healy's incompetent say-nothing post.

Bill Miller

[Frank Agbat]

can't shuck and jive your way out of this one, son... I could care less what else Mary Moorman is on the record saying.... you blew it, and know it! An apology is in order!

Yes ... I would like to go on record as apologizing to those who have had to read David Healy's incompetent say-nothing post.

Bill Miller

DH:

Mary Moorman, herself is on-the-record stating: "she stepped onto Elm street" to take polaroid picture(s). Apology?

DH Again:

can't shuck and jive your way out of this one, son... I could care less what else Mary Moorman is on the record saying....

[Bill Miller]

DH:

Mary Moorman, herself is on-the-record stating: "she stepped onto Elm street" to take polaroid picture(s). Apology?

DH Again:

can't shuck and jive your way out of this one, son... I could care less what else Mary Moorman is on the record saying....

Ah Frank ... I see you have met the two Healy's.

Edited March 13, 2009 by Kathy Beckett

[Bill Miller]

But has he met the two Miller's?

Duncan, people who know me will tell you that they never see me drink alcohol ... and I never learned how to dance, so much like your post ... your lack of research in what you are talking about is showing.

I also couldn't help but notice that these are the same illustrations that Miles was using under the name 'Larcinni2000' on another forum before they booted his dumb behind for not heeding their warnings. Because you have been made aware in the past that using peoples faces without their permission isn't allowed ... not to mention childish and sure signs of being whacked in the head ... you ignore the moderators and post them once again. Do you think you are using your time wisely when you could instead be working so to take that all important trip to Dallas one day with the extra money you earned?

[David G. Healy]

can't shuck and jive your way out of this one, son... I could care less what else Mary Moorman is on the record saying.... you blew it, and know it! An apology is in order!

Yes ... I would like to go on record as apologizing to those who have had to read David Healy's incompetent say-nothing post.

Bill Miller

DH:

Mary Moorman, herself is on-the-record stating: "she stepped onto Elm street" to take polaroid picture(s). Apology?

DH Again:

can't shuck and jive your way out of this one, son... I could care less what else Mary Moorman is on the record saying....

your learn'in Frank..... stick with the CT's and you might get to use that education you have, maybe even learn a few things about film/image composition. And who knows, perhaps a bit about optical film printing (unless you can show us a few credits concerning the media, of course so we can take you seriously). Maybe find the Moorman #5 is a shuck and jive diversion. Ya see Frank, Lone Nutters including Bill Miller's merry band of wannabe CTer's can't deal with the fact the Zapruder Film is looking more and more like its altered

[David G. Healy]

DH:

Mary Moorman, herself is on-the-record stating: "she stepped onto Elm street" to take polaroid picture(s). Apology?

DH Again:

can't shuck and jive your way out of this one, son... I could care less what else Mary Moorman is on the record saying....

Ah Frank ... I see you have met the two Healy's.

someday you too, may get published son.... perhaps Josiah, Gary, the 6th Floor Museum or better yet, maybe the City of Dallas will help you find a publisher.... ROTFLMFAO!