Doug Horne

[William Kelly]

Doug Horne - 20 Questions

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/

Doug Horne: "On another level, I do believe the government has engaged in infiltration of the research community for decades, and has used surrogates to oppose views considered dangerous, and to spread confusion and discord. As you know, I had an experience with this myself, as recounted in my Epilogue."

[John Bevilaqua]

I disagree with Doug's dismissal of the likelihood of a 9/11 conspiracy but this doesn't affect my interest in his work. The contents as outlined by Bill (thanks Bill) look great. I can only afford to get these volumes one or two at a time, especially as the Amazon price has jumped back up. I'm considering grabbing the first, and the last, and going from there. I hope these sell well and get the recognition they evidently deserve.

Did Doug really start writing this series of books in 2006? That's the impression I received from the Afterword posted by Bill. It's an impressive achievement if he managed that amount of text in just a few years. Bugliosi was chugging away on his heavy brick of nonsense for longer than that - to match the amount of writing and detail in a notably shorter amount of time is a notable achievement.

I believe that Doug Horne has been working on this massive work for 12-14 years, going back to 1996-1997 or thereabouts.

And the really interesting aspect of the "Troika" of wild-eyed conspiracies put together by psy-ops warfare experts involving the so-called "The Lunar Landing Hoax", "The OK Bombing as a Strike from Space" and the "9/11 Attack as a Controlled Demolition by U.S. Government Agents" is the fact that ALL THREE of these hoaxes were perpetrated by none other than those loons from The Liberty Lobby and their Spotlight Newspaper, which is thankfully out of business now. Tim McVeigh got the recipe for the fertilizer bomb right from the pages of the Spotlight or one of their sister publications and he contacted that neo Nazi in Germany, Lauck was it, right before the OK bombing, The Lunar Landing Hoax first appeared in the pages of Spotlight and most of the claptrap about 9/11 being a controlled internal demolition also came from Spotlight and their sister pubs as well.

And who funded and sponsored Spotlight for years? Willis Carto got the money for Spotlight and Right Magazine via the funding from Wickliffe Draper and Draper sponsored both Human Events and even The Councillor of the White Citizens Council in Jackson, Mississippi which was started by none other than Elmore Greaves himself who was part of The Pioneer Fund and a leader of the US contingent to WACL Conferences right after Roger Pearson of The Pioneer Fund.

So in fact if you read Spotlight and believed their garbage about The "Troika" of wild-eyed pseudo conspiracy events then you probably have been also brainwashed into believing their entire cock and bull story about the JFK Assassination, too. You know, the Commies did it, the Castroites did it, the anti-Castroites did it and ONLY the full-time employees of the CIA were involved. No rogue agents were involved, no fired DCI's were involved, no Angleton styled double agents were involved, no former CIA agents were involved like Ray Cline, etc., etc. No retired Army Intel agents were involved, no disgraced and disarmed Generals like Willoughby or MacArthur were involved, etc., etc.

What can one reasonably conclude then? That the JFK perps, like The China Lobby trio of Marvin Liebmann of YAF and Charles Willoughby and Robert J. Morris plus Draper and Company, sponsored all of the publications reporting on the false flag "Troika" operations AND the JFK hit and then blamed it on their opposition using psy-ops and mind control and they have taken in millions and millions of people. I guess you can fool some of the people all of the time, then, despite statements to the contrary.

[William Kelly]

What It All Means

Summing up, the importance of our impact debris study is clear and incontrovertible: HSCA Staff Director and General Counsel G. Robert Blakey was wrong when he concluded that the shot from the grassy knoll, revealed by the HSCA acoustical study, had missed the occupants of the limousine, and that the fatal shot that killed President Kennedy was fired from the Texas School Book Depository. Not only was Blakey wrong, but I submit to you that since he had most of the impact debris information cited above available to him—except for the Willis family interview and the Floyd Boring revelation—he knew he was likely wrong, and proceeded to knowingly trumpet the wrong conclusion anyway. Why? Because to accept that the grassy knoll shot had killed the President, based upon a study of the impact debris and the motion of President Kennedy’s head and upper body in the Zapruder film (violently back and to the left), would have meant that he had no faith in the medical evidence from the autopsy. [The autopsy report and the photos and x-rays, remember, provide no clear evidence of a shot from the front, and only support shots from behind.]

To have admitted this, after all the investigating and interviewing done by the HSCA staff and its Forensic Pathology Panel, would have been to publicly admit failure. Formally concluding that the grassy knoll shot killed President Kennedy would have meant, essentially, that the HSCA not only had no faith in the autopsy medical evidence, but that it could also not explain exactly what was wrong with that evidence. Rather than do this, Blakey ‘buried’ as much of the medical evidence that conflicted with the autopsy report as he could—namely, the Ebersole, Finck, and Knudsen depositions; and the staff interviews of the ‘little people’ at the autopsy—by sequestering (sealing) this material for 50 years; and then he lied about the extent to which the autopsy witnesses agreed with the autopsy photographs on page 37 of volume VII of his report.

Thanks to the JFK Records Act, which opened up the HSCA files, the chicanery of Blakey and Baden has been exposed. It was this ‘big lie’ about the autopsy photographs—the brazen, dishonest statement that none of the autopsy witnesses disagreed with the location of the wounds in the autopsy images—that will forever damn the HSCA’s conclusions as intellectually dishonest and morally bankrupt. Rather than admit to the American public that the Committee had an insoluble puzzle where the evidence refused to some together—and explain why it did not come together and either continue the investigation until the matter was resolved, or turn it over to the Justice Department—Blakey and Baden cynically chose to endorse suspect medical evidence from the autopsy, and ignore and discount:

• the Parkland hospital medical witnesses to a blowout in the back of the head;

• the testimony of Secret Service agent Clint Hill that verified the Parkland observations; and

• the clear pattern of the preponderance of the impact debris evidence (Hill, Hargis, Martin, and the Harper fragment) pointing to a fatal shot from the right front.

Apparently, it was politically much easier for Blakey and his gang to announce the unpalatable conclusion that the Warren Commission had come to the right conclusion about Lee Harvey Oswald after all—that he had really and truly killed President Kennedy and wounded Governor Connally all

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by himself—than to admit that there were irreconcilable conflicts in the evidence that could not be resolved. To do that would have taken considerable courage, and integrity.

The HSCA’s fence-sitting provided the American people with a ‘modified limited hangout’ which satisfied no one: it gave us a ‘probable’ conspiracy supported only by an acoustics study, and yet the same unlikely murderer offered up by the Warren Commission; a presumed conspiracy with no names named, or motives explained; and a conclusion that all of the shots that struck Kennedy and Connally were fired from behind by Oswald, in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary in the Zapruder film, in eyewitness testimony from Dealey Plaza and Parkland hospital, and in the ballistics evidence from the Edgewood Arsenal Firing Tests, published by the Army in 1965.

If the HSCA had possessed any cajones it would have stated up front that the irreconcilable conflicts within the forensic and crime scene evidence suggested that a major coverup had taken place in 1963, and that it suspected much of the evidence in the case may have been ‘tainted’ in ways not yet detected, meriting further investigation by the Justice Department. Instead, Blakey and Baden took the easier road of arrogantly pronouncing that they had solved the case, and bailed out of their burning airplane as quickly as possible. Blakey’s golden parachute landed him a lifetime job as

Professor of Law at Notre Dame. I’m not impressed. “For what hath a man gained, if he loses his own soul?”

The Head Wounds

Here are my conclusions, at this writing in 2009, about the shots to President Kennedy’s head:

• One shot from the right front (probably fired from well down the grassy knoll fence line, near where the triple overpass meets the knoll, at or near the storm drain behind the stockade fence) entered high in the President’s forehead above the right eye and just below his hairline, and exited high in the posterior skull, just left of the midline.

This postulated shot was more from the front, than from the right side. The entrance wound caused by this shot was alluded to by assistant White House Press Secretary Malcolm Kilduff at Parkland hospital, when he put his right index finger to his right forehead, indicating the point of entry, and quoted Dr. Burkley (who had been in Trauma Room One and seen the wounds) as saying that “...it was a simple matter of a bullet right through the head.” (See page 59 of Groden’s The Killing of a President, and page 408 of Trask.) This small entrance wound was obscured by the President’s long hair—his bangs—at Parkland hospital. Photographs of this entrance wound taken immediately after the President’s body arrived at the Bethesda morgue were seen by Dennis David and Joe O’Donnell in 1963, but never made it into the official record. What did make it into the record are the autopsy photographs of the surgical incision made to President Kennedy’s forehead high above the right eye when evidence of this entry wound was obliterated (i.e., removed by illicit, post mortem surgery) prior to the commencement of the autopsy (see Figures 60 and 62). Autopsy photos 17, 18, 44, and 45 (see Figure 66) depict the exit wound caused by this bullet: namely, the semi-circular beveled notch on the outer surface of the left posterior skull, high in the back of the head. The high fragment trail left by this bullet as it

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passed through the vertex of the skull can be seen in the two lateral skull x-rays. (Figure 37 depicts the right lateral skull film; the left lateral has never been published.) This was probably an explosive mercury bullet—consistent not only with the large amount of missing brain tissue in the forebrain, but also with the cloud of fragments seen in the forward part of the skull in the lateral x-rays. The testimony of AP photographer James Altgens that a shot exited the left side of President Kennedy’s skull is consistent with the exit wound—the semi-circular notch in the skull plate—seen in Figure 66. In my opinion, the weapon that fired this shot was probably a rifle equipped with a silencer that fired a high velocity, customized, mercury bullet. This shot was probably not heard by S. M. Holland for two reasons:

(1) because the rifle was likely silenced; and (2) because it was pointed away from his position on the overpass, whereas the shots from the vicinity of Elm and Houston, and another frontal shot fired from near the corner of the stockade fence (to theimmediate right-front of the limousine), sounded much louder to him—primarily because they occurred in front of him, rather than from well to his left.

• A second shot from the right front (fired from near the corner of the grassy knoll stockade fence), fired nearly simultaneously with the previously discussed shot from the elevated storm drain (where the stockade fence intersects with the triple overpass), hit the President above and slightly behind the right ear, and created a massive tangential wound (that represented both entrance and exit) in the right rear of his skull—the blowout seen by Clint Hill in the limousine, and by the Parkland medical staff. This postulated shot was more from the right, than it was from the front. It may be this large, nearly baseball-sized defect that is seen on the back of the President’s head in the Moorman Polaroid photograph (Figure 76). This shot caused both the massive tissue loss from the right occipital lobe of the cerebral cortex, and the damage to the right cerebellum, noted at Parkland hospital. A large section of the skull and scalp removed by this shot was apparently captured in mid-air by the Moorman photo, and ended up in the back seat of the car, as noted by Clint Hill.

The Harper fragment, from the middle of the occipital region, was likely exit debris caused by this shot, and the Weitzman fragment may have been also. The pattern of exit debris that hit motorcycle policemen Hargis and Martin, and covered the trunk lid of the limousine with bloody water, resulted from this shot. The shooter to the immediate right-front of the limousine who fired this shot—near the corner of the stockade fence on the knoll—must have employed a .45 caliber pistol to shoot the President, possibly employing a silencer. This is one of two possible explanations for the sound of a pistol that witness S. M. Holland associated with the smoke seen coming from the picket fence on the grassy knoll. I believe the smoke Holland saw was from the rifle fired well to his left, from where the fence meets the overpass (as if wafted down the fence line), but that the pistol shot he heard may have been caused by the .45 caliber weapon that caused the large tangential wound in the rightrear of the President’s skull. I believe that the .45 caliber slug that Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig saw lying in the grass near the manhole cover on the south side of Elm Street, along with biological debris, is this bullet—the missile that caused the large tangential wound in the right posterior skull. Dr. Kemp Clark, head of neurosurgery

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at Parkland, believed the large avulsive head wound seen in Trauma Room One was a tangential wound. I also believe that the aforementioned rifle shot from the elevated storm drain (where the stockade fence meets the overpass) and the .45 slug (fired from near the corner of the grassy knoll fence) impacted virtually simultaneously, creating a massive overpressure in President Kennedy’s skull that resulted in the ‘head explosion’ noted by several witnesses. In my estimation, the combination of high velocity, explosive ammunition used by the shooter near the overpass, and the larger, .45 caliber pistol ammunition used by the other shooter near the corner of the stockade fence—impacting virtually simultaneously—produced the violent, explosive pattern of exit debris that was propelled to the left rear of the limousine with such great force. The violent motion of the President’s head and upper body—back, and to the left—seen in the Zapruder film is probably accounted for by the fact that it is caused by a double head hit from the right front, with both shots fired from the same quadrant (the right-front), and impacting at about the same time. [Note: if the .45 caliber slug was not fired from the position 14 feet west of the corner of the stockade fence identified by Josiah Thompson in Six Seconds in Dallas, then it may have been fired by the so-called ‘badge man’ figure—on the other side of the fence corner—seen in enhanced blowups of the Mary Moorman Polaroid photo created by Jack White in the late 1980s. Jack’s work with the Moorman photo (in concert with Gary Mack, before he became a ‘lone-nutter’), and his explanation of the ‘badge man’ figure, can be seen in episode 2 of the 1988 documentary, “The Men Who Killed Kennedy.” Groden deals with this subject in his book on pages 201 and

204.]

• Just prior to the double head hit from the right front, I have concluded that PresidentKennedy was shot in the head low in the posterior skull, from the rear, by a third shot (which was probably fired from the second floor window in the Dal-Tex Building). The evidence for this shot comes from the autopsy report; because the evidence found on the body was of a shot from behind and not from the front, it was accepted into evidence and was not suppressed, as was all evidence of the two shots from the right front. In Groden’s book The Killing of a President, on pages 31 and 185, provocative evidence is offered of a possible shooter in a second floor window of the Dal-Tex building. A shot from that location would have been nearly horizontal when it hit the President, and would appear to be consistent with having caused both the low posterior entrance wound in the skull—agreed upon unanimously by all three pathologists as being 2.5 cm to the right, and slightly above, the external occipital protruberance—and the fractured right orbit seen in the A-P skull x-ray and noted on the Autopsy Descriptive Sheet. Presumably, this bullet would have been removed from the cranium and disposed of during the clandestine post mortem surgery at Bethesda, because it was the wrong kind of ammunition (i.e., not copper-jacketed 6.5 mm ammunition fired by Oswald’s rifle). In fact, if Oswald’s rifle did not fire any ammunition whatsoever the day of the assassination, or was only used to fire blanks for diversionary purposes, then the task of the medical coverup would have been relatively simple: remove all metal from the body, since none of it would have matched Oswald’s rifle. Ballistic matches to Oswald’s

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rifle—fired ahead of time—would have been ‘planted’ and introduced into evidence fraudulently, as CE 399 and possibly even the front seat fragments, CE 567 and 569, appear to have been. The apparent double head hit (from behind and from the front) seen in the Zapruder film, and written about so extensively by Josiah Thompson in his book, really did happen, in my view. The first shot to strike the skull was fired from low behind the limousine, possibly the second floor window in the Dal-Tex Building. The second and third shots that hit President Kennedy in the head were fired from the grassy knoll area to the right front of the limousine, as discussed previously. The exit blast from the two frontal shots almost completely obliterated all evidence of the bullet that struck the skull from behind: as Finck noted in the Blumberg report, the entrance wound in the posterior skull, when he first saw it, was only “a portion of a crater,” and Boswell explained to the HSCA staff, to the HSCA Forensic Pathology Panel, and to the ARRB that the entrance wound in the posterior skull was located at the margin, or edge of the enormous defect in the posterior skull, and only a small skull fragment brought into the morgue late in the autopsy allowed the pathologists to complete the circumference of the entry wound in the back of the head. The entrance wound low in the posterior skull was not seen in Dallas because it was located at the lower margin of the large, avulsed exit defect. It was missed because President Kennedy was lying supine during treatment, part of his brain was extruding from that exit defect, and he was bleeding profusely from the head. It still was not noted when the body was washed after death, because it was located in the periphery of the large exit defect. No one would have seen it at Parkland unless the head had been shaved and an autopsy had been performed by Dr. Rose.

• The very unpleasant and tentative possibility exists that limousine driver William Greer fired a fourth head shot into the President’s left temple with his revolver. This cannot be proven today, since there is no left temporal wound mentioned in the autopsy report, nor is there such a wound depicted in the autopsy photographs of the left side of the head. (But the autopsy report has been rewritten, and the head was not shaved at autopsy, so the absence of evidence for a left temporal wound in the autopsy report and in the autopsy photographs is not conclusive, by any means.)

However, 3 Parkland physicians believed in 1963 that they had seen a left temporal wound: McClelland, Jenkins, and Puerto. (See Chapters 7 and 9.) Father Oscar Huber, who administered the last rites to President Kennedy, said he saw a terrible wound over his left eye. Photographer Hugh Betzner wrote in his affidavit on 11/22/63 that he saw a nickel-plated revolver in someone’s hand inside or near the limousine during the assassination. Jean Hill wrote in her affidavit on 11/22/63 that she thought she saw men in plain clothes “shooting back” during the assassination.

Clint Hill wrote on 11/30/63 that the fatal shot sounded like a revolver fired into a hard object, and repeated that under oath in 1964 before the Warren Commission. Motorcycle Patrolman James Chaney, the closest outrider on the right side of the limousine, told a Houston newspaper on 11/23/63 that the President had been “struck in the face” by the final shot. In the Moorman photograph, which was in the hands of the FBI for a considerable period of time in 1964, the figure of William Greer appears to me to have been ‘whited out’ in the version of the photograph that I own

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(see Figure 76). The versions of the Moorman photograph that appear elsewhere, such as in Groden (on page 34) and in Trask (on page 247), also appear to have had a human figure ‘whited out’ in the image, just to the left of Roy Kellerman in the front seat of the limousine. When asked at his 1997 ARRB deposition by Jeremy Gunn why the two FBI agents had gone back and reinterviewed Secret Service agents Kellerman and Greer a second time at the White House, after already interviewing them at the morgue during the autopsy, Frank O’Neill testified that it was done on the specific orders of J. Edgar Hoover. Finally, in support of this hypothesis, a noted forensic pathologist, Dr. Charles Wilbur, wrote a letter to Harry Livingstone on July 25, 1991, which was published in part in High Treason 2, in which he wrote: “...a rather interesting paragraph is found in the Supplemental Autopsy Report. The right hemisphere of the brain was obviously demolished. The left hemisphere is claimed to be ‘intact.’ It is further reported that there is MARKED over-stuffing or super-filling of the blood vessels of the brain covering (meningeal vessels) on the left hemisphere. This engorgement extends from the left temporal region to the frontal region accompanied by‘considerable associated subarachnoid hemorrhage.’ Subarachnoid space is that area over the brain that lies between the tough outer protective covering of the brain (dura mater) and the delicate inner covering (pia mater). The arachnoid layer of the brain covering is in this space...A subarachnoid hemorrhage is a bleeding into the space between the pia mater and the arachnoid membrane. But then we are told that the gyre and sulci of the left hemisphere are essentially normal. Later we are told that tissue samples are taken from the ‘contused left frontoparietal cortex.’ Under the microscope, sections from this left brain sample were essentially similar to all other sections taken from other parts of the brain which show ‘EXTENSIVE DISRUPTION OF BRAIN TISSUE WITH ASSOCIATED HEMORRHAGE.’ These observations rekindle my interest in the observations made in Dallas on the ER table (by several medical personnel) to the effect that there was an entry hole in the left temporal region, in front of the left ear and at the hairline.” [author’s emphasis added]

Dear reader, if the esteemed and widely respected Dr. Wilbur was also suspicious that there may have been a bullet wound in President Kennedy’s left temple, then I have nothing to be ashamed of here when broaching the subject. What I have added to Dr. Wilbur’s concerns is the context in which this possibility should be considered: Hugh Betzner seeing a nickel-plated revolver in someone’s hand in the limousine, Jean Hill seeing plain clothes officers shooting back, and Clint Hill equating the fatal shot with the sound of a revolver fired into a hard object. As unpalatable as the suggestion may be, it would be cowardly of me not to mention it here.

The presumption here, on my part, as it was in Chapter 10, is that the writeup in the Supplementary Autopsy Report—with the exception of the weight of 1500 grams, which is impossible for such a damaged brain—reflects the examination of JFK’s authentic brain performed on Monday, November 25, 1963. We know from an HSCA staff interview report, released in 1993, that the Supplementary

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Autopsy Report was typed by Admiral Galloway’s typist, Elsie Closson, before the second brain exam (of the fraudulent brain) took place, so it cannot be the fraudulent brain that is being described in the report. (She said she typed it “a few days” after the autopsy protocol on Sunday, November 24, 1963.)

The only way for this question about the possibility of a fourth head shot, fired from the left front, to be definitively answered is to exhume President Kennedy’s body and give him what he never received in the first place—a thorough and complete autopsy. It would be a little bit like reexamining a crime scene that had been maliciously tampered with by the suspects in a crime, but there is still much we would learn.

[William Kelly]

Rex Bradford has added some links to sample chapters of Doug Horne's IARRB and essays.

Preface, Why Do I Care?

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Inside_the_ARRB

Epiphanies

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...sPageId=1514847

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...sPageId=1514893

Zapruder Film Annomalies

http://insidethearrb.livejournal.com/#post-insidethearrb-3251

[Michael Crane]

Oh my,a three head shot conclusion,with a possibilility of a fourth? that is one more then mine.Bill,what is Doug`s conclusion on the throat wound?This remarkable wound has caused me the most grief (the depth,trajectory & path)

Edited February 3, 2010 by Michael Crane

[William Plumlee]

Oh my,a three head shot conclusion,with a possibilility of a fourth? that is one more then mine.Bill,what is Doug`s conclusion on the throat wound?This remarkable wound has caused me the most grief (the depth,trajectory & path)

"... • One shot from the right front (probably fired from well down the grassy knoll fence line, near where the triple overpass meets the knoll, at or near the storm drain behind the stockade fence) entered high in the President’s forehead above the right eye and just below his hairline, and exited high in the posterior skull, just left of the midline. ...".

My viewpoint: If you really look at the photos and film you can see that the President was looking slightly toward his left toward Jackie (S/W)... couple that with the slight curve in the road to the left at that point (about 2 or 3 degrees) and the downward slop of the road, puts the kill zone to the left toward the south side of the underpass of the above stated spot .. said to be around the storm drain and the west north knoll and fence. JFK's head had moved a few degrees to his left and the slight curve added a few more degrees. I believe this would be a right frontal shoot. Perhaps, a front throat shot from the south side of the underpass either over the windshield or through the windshield. I believe one shot near the south parking lot of the south knoll missed and perhaps is still behind the kill zone in the grass on the east side of the north area of the plaza.

As to a shooter from the storm drain? The distance to the kill zone would not be a shot that could be made. The angle would have been better than thirty degrees and would be a right back (above the right ear) frontal shot, because the President was looking slightly to his left when the fatal shot was fired.

http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/galle..._Knoll_Area.jpg

Edited February 19, 2010 by William Plumlee

[Doug Weldon]

Oh my,a three head shot conclusion,with a possibilility of a fourth? that is one more then mine.Bill,what is Doug`s conclusion on the throat wound?This remarkable wound has caused me the most grief (the depth,trajectory & path)

Michael:

See Doug Horne Volume 5 p.1439 the section entitled "The Bullet Hole in the Windshield is Proof of A Shot Fired From The Front"

Doug Weldon

[John Bevilaqua]

Oh my,a three head shot conclusion,with a possibilility of a fourth? that is one more then mine.Bill,what is Doug`s conclusion on the throat wound?This remarkable wound has caused me the most grief (the depth,trajectory & path)

OK, OK. There were multiple shooters. It WAS a Conspiracy. We ALL know that. So I surrender. But who were the actual PERPS?

Who were they? Why did they do it? Who paid them? And where are they now? And what did they do both before and after the fact of the JFK murder?

[William Plumlee]

Oh my,a three head shot conclusion,with a possibilility of a fourth? that is one more then mine.Bill,what is Doug`s conclusion on the throat wound?This remarkable wound has caused me the most grief (the depth,trajectory & path)

OK, OK. There were multiple shooters. It WAS a Conspiracy. We ALL know that. So I surrender. But who were the actual PERPS?

Who were they? Why did they do it? Who paid them? And where are they now? And what did they do both before and after the fact of the JFK murder?

STAY TUNED or you might miss something. The answers to your questions are on the wind and soon to arrive.

Baby steps first... then the running to the finish line starts. All things come in there own time and season, and that time is very near my friend.

Mac Wallace was one of the assassins, although he was not one of the point men, but just an instrument or tool.

Its time to focus on Texas and its politics of the time..., not the mob..., not Cuba... I know the military thought Texas was the source, that was so many years ago... that is why we were sent in. But what do I know. I'm just an 800 lb Guerilla sitting on a fence.

Edited February 19, 2010 by William Plumlee

[Jack White]

"...AND TODAY STILL" was you most important remark, Peter. SOMEONE still must hold the head together

to keep the brains from coming out, as Jackie tried to do. Who are they? What perpetuates this "eternal life"

of the coverup". What corporate soul exists in D.C. that knows the coverup must continue? Do the service

academies teach Coverup 101? Does the Pentagon have a DEPARTMENT OF CONTINUOUS COVERUP?

Jack

[David Boylan]

Oh my,a three head shot conclusion,with a possibilility of a fourth? that is one more then mine.Bill,what is Doug`s conclusion on the throat wound?This remarkable wound has caused me the most grief (the depth,trajectory & path)

OK, OK. There were multiple shooters. It WAS a Conspiracy. We ALL know that. So I surrender. But who were the actual PERPS?

Who were they? Why did they do it? Who paid them? And where are they now? And what did they do both before and after the fact of the JFK murder?

STAY TUNED or you might miss something. The answers to your questions are on the wind and soon to arrive.

Baby steps first... then the running to the finish line starts. All things come in there own time and season, and that time is very near my friend.

Mac Wallace was one of the assassins, although he was not one of the point men, but just an instrument or tool.

Its time to focus on Texas and its politics of the time..., not the mob..., not Cuba... I know the military thought Texas was the source, that was so many years ago... that is why we were sent in. But what do I know. I'm just an 800 lb Guerilla sitting on a fence.

Tosh,

Good to see you back. I'm listening.

Dave

[Jack White]

"...AND TODAY STILL" was you most important remark, Peter. SOMEONE still must hold the head together

to keep the brains from coming out, as Jackie tried to do. Who are they? What perpetuates this "eternal life"

of the coverup". What corporate soul exists in D.C. that knows the coverup must continue? Do the service

academies teach Coverup 101? Does the Pentagon have a DEPARTMENT OF CONTINUOUS COVERUP?

Jack

Personally, I feel the cover-up is as strong (or stronger) today than it was on and just after 11/22/63. You ask an important question, Jack - what entity[ies] and with what motive maintain this cover-up?! Douglass went a long, long way to explaining the WHY JFK was killed, IMO. Many of the better researchers, taken as a whole (and discounting the minor differences - which really don't effect the validity of their basic conclusion, i.e. Conspiracy and Cover-up!) have endlessly demonstrated the HOW JFK was killed and how it was NOT by the official scenario. Horne is but the latest to re-confirm and greatly augment this. Not as much covered is the why of the cover-up long after and THE IMPLICATIONS - PRACTICAL, PHILOSOPHICAL, POLITICAL AND ETHICAL. JFK was killed, IMO because he veered slightly toward Peace and away from a stance of perpetual Warfare that was enshrined in the 'Cold Warrior Mentality' of the Deep Political State Apparatus (and VERY profitable! - in financial and control terms!). I believe that those who really [and illegally/unconstitutionally/secretly] run the USA and all too much of the World KNOW that IF the TRUTH of the JFK Assassination became known and accepted by the U.S. Demos they would be removed from their hidden positions of power and rendered powerless [and imprisoned, if lucky enough not to be killed by the angry populace]. Thus, they will fight, IMO, with everything they have to maintain the secrets of 11/22/63 and all their subsequent [and manifold] follow-on similar operations - right up to this very day. They want neo-Mideavalism and we want a modern-Democracy. It is the ultimate battle for our Country, the Planet and Life on it. Everyone, take your side and fight! The 'stakes' are ULTIMATE! I fear the croupier is about to say 'le jeux sont fait' and the game will be over if we don't fight harder and faster. Our enemy - the enemy of truth and freedoms, equality and justice - has grown in strength since Dallas. We who see this must redouble our efforts or we will soon loose all. IMO. I'm shocked at how much we have already lost and most don't fight back, only recoil and tremble in fear. That is what they want of us. It is better to risk all standing on our 'feet' and head held high, then to live long comfortable slave-lives on our 'knees', heads bowed to those who would enslave us with their lies, covert ops, propaganda, secret control, and dirty tricks. 

All correct, Peter...but answer me this. People who were not even alive back then are SUCKED INTO

CONTINUING THE COVERUP. How? This is assuming that most children are raised to be honest, truth-loving

and patriotic. Then they enlist in some branch of government and are told, "the government killed JFK

and it is your job to help us continue the coverup." So the new recruits pitch in and help, WITHOUT A SINGLE

NEW RECRUIT BLOWING THE WHISTLE. This seems highly unlikely to me.

Jack

[William Kelly]

"...AND TODAY STILL" was you most important remark, Peter. SOMEONE still must hold the head together

to keep the brains from coming out, as Jackie tried to do. Who are they? What perpetuates this "eternal life"

of the coverup". What corporate soul exists in D.C. that knows the coverup must continue? Do the service

academies teach Coverup 101? Does the Pentagon have a DEPARTMENT OF CONTINUOUS COVERUP?

Jack

Personally, I feel the cover-up is as strong (or stronger) today than it was on and just after 11/22/63. You ask an important question, Jack - what entity[ies] and with what motive maintain this cover-up?! Douglass went a long, long way to explaining the WHY JFK was killed, IMO. Many of the better researchers, taken as a whole (and discounting the minor differences - which really don't effect the validity of their basic conclusion, i.e. Conspiracy and Cover-up!) have endlessly demonstrated the HOW JFK was killed and how it was NOT by the official scenario. Horne is but the latest to re-confirm and greatly augment this. Not as much covered is the why of the cover-up long after and THE IMPLICATIONS - PRACTICAL, PHILOSOPHICAL, POLITICAL AND ETHICAL. JFK was killed, IMO because he veered slightly toward Peace and away from a stance of perpetual Warfare that was enshrined in the 'Cold Warrior Mentality' of the Deep Political State Apparatus (and VERY profitable! - in financial and control terms!). I believe that those who really [and illegally/unconstitutionally/secretly] run the USA and all too much of the World KNOW that IF the TRUTH of the JFK Assassination became known and accepted by the U.S. Demos they would be removed from their hidden positions of power and rendered powerless [and imprisoned, if lucky enough not to be killed by the angry populace]. Thus, they will fight, IMO, with everything they have to maintain the secrets of 11/22/63 and all their subsequent [and manifold] follow-on similar operations - right up to this very day. They want neo-Mideavalism and we want a modern-Democracy. It is the ultimate battle for our Country, the Planet and Life on it. Everyone, take your side and fight! The 'stakes' are ULTIMATE! I fear the croupier is about to say 'le jeux sont fait' and the game will be over if we don't fight harder and faster. Our enemy - the enemy of truth and freedoms, equality and justice - has grown in strength since Dallas. We who see this must redouble our efforts or we will soon loose all. IMO. I'm shocked at how much we have already lost and most don't fight back, only recoil and tremble in fear. That is what they want of us. It is better to risk all standing on our 'feet' and head held high, then to live long comfortable slave-lives on our 'knees', heads bowed to those who would enslave us with their lies, covert ops, propaganda, secret control, and dirty tricks.

All correct, Peter...but answer me this. People who were not even alive back then are SUCKED INTO

CONTINUING THE COVERUP. How? This is assuming that most children are raised to be honest, truth-loving

and patriotic. Then they enlist in some branch of government and are told, "the government killed JFK

and it is your job to help us continue the coverup." So the new recruits pitch in and help, WITHOUT A SINGLE

NEW RECRUIT BLOWING THE WHISTLE. This seems highly unlikely to me.

Jack

Jack,

If you read the parts of Doug Horne's books that actually deal with the ARRBoard and its staff he talks about the culture of leadership - none of the board believed there was a conspiracy and hired a staff who felt the same - and they also believed that the official government records they were supposed to identify and release would support their beliefs.

Horne was hired despite his acknowledgement of having read books on the subject and being familiar with it and being a "conspiracy theorist," probably because they didn't have anybody else who was already cleared to handle classified military records, as Doug was having spent 20 years in the Navy.

When he pressed for records from reluctant agencies and wanted to tape record interviews and take the testimony of witnesses under oath, he was threatened first with not getting a good report or recomendation for his next job and then with being fired.

The trail of redacted, stolen, lost and destroyed records is a testiment to the fact that the assassination was not just an attack on the man - JFK by a deranged lone nut, mafia goon, revengefull Cubans or renegade CIA but an inside job - a coup d'etat, and therefore not a benign crime that can go unsolved forever, but it was done by a continually active intelligence network that still functions and controls power today.

That will not change until the system is required to act - Congress is foreced to do its oversight duty on the records and those responsible for crimes related to the assassination are indicted by a grand jury and brought to justice.

There will be no justice for JFK, there will be no return of public confidence in their government and the system will be infected by those like the Review Board members and their staff until those two things happen.

BK

[Jack White]

"...AND TODAY STILL" was you most important remark, Peter. SOMEONE still must hold the head together

to keep the brains from coming out, as Jackie tried to do. Who are they? What perpetuates this "eternal life"

of the coverup". What corporate soul exists in D.C. that knows the coverup must continue? Do the service

academies teach Coverup 101? Does the Pentagon have a DEPARTMENT OF CONTINUOUS COVERUP?

Jack

Personally, I feel the cover-up is as strong (or stronger) today than it was on and just after 11/22/63. You ask an important question, Jack - what entity[ies] and with what motive maintain this cover-up?! Douglass went a long, long way to explaining the WHY JFK was killed, IMO. Many of the better researchers, taken as a whole (and discounting the minor differences - which really don't effect the validity of their basic conclusion, i.e. Conspiracy and Cover-up!) have endlessly demonstrated the HOW JFK was killed and how it was NOT by the official scenario. Horne is but the latest to re-confirm and greatly augment this. Not as much covered is the why of the cover-up long after and THE IMPLICATIONS - PRACTICAL, PHILOSOPHICAL, POLITICAL AND ETHICAL. JFK was killed, IMO because he veered slightly toward Peace and away from a stance of perpetual Warfare that was enshrined in the 'Cold Warrior Mentality' of the Deep Political State Apparatus (and VERY profitable! - in financial and control terms!). I believe that those who really [and illegally/unconstitutionally/secretly] run the USA and all too much of the World KNOW that IF the TRUTH of the JFK Assassination became known and accepted by the U.S. Demos they would be removed from their hidden positions of power and rendered powerless [and imprisoned, if lucky enough not to be killed by the angry populace]. Thus, they will fight, IMO, with everything they have to maintain the secrets of 11/22/63 and all their subsequent [and manifold] follow-on similar operations - right up to this very day. They want neo-Mideavalism and we want a modern-Democracy. It is the ultimate battle for our Country, the Planet and Life on it. Everyone, take your side and fight! The 'stakes' are ULTIMATE! I fear the croupier is about to say 'le jeux sont fait' and the game will be over if we don't fight harder and faster. Our enemy - the enemy of truth and freedoms, equality and justice - has grown in strength since Dallas. We who see this must redouble our efforts or we will soon loose all. IMO. I'm shocked at how much we have already lost and most don't fight back, only recoil and tremble in fear. That is what they want of us. It is better to risk all standing on our 'feet' and head held high, then to live long comfortable slave-lives on our 'knees', heads bowed to those who would enslave us with their lies, covert ops, propaganda, secret control, and dirty tricks.

All correct, Peter...but answer me this. People who were not even alive back then are SUCKED INTO

CONTINUING THE COVERUP. How? This is assuming that most children are raised to be honest, truth-loving

and patriotic. Then they enlist in some branch of government and are told, "the government killed JFK

and it is your job to help us continue the coverup." So the new recruits pitch in and help, WITHOUT A SINGLE

NEW RECRUIT BLOWING THE WHISTLE. This seems highly unlikely to me.

Jack

Jack,

If you read the parts of Doug Horne's books that actually deal with the ARRBoard and its staff he talks about the culture of leadership - none of the board believed there was a conspiracy and hired a staff who felt the same - and they also believed that the official government records they were supposed to identify and release would support their beliefs.

Horne was hired despite his acknowledgement of having read books on the subject and being familiar with it and being a "conspiracy theorist," probably because they didn't have anybody else who was already cleared to handle classified military records, as Doug was having spent 20 years in the Navy.

When he pressed for records from reluctant agencies and wanted to tape record interviews and take the testimony of witnesses under oath, he was threatened first with not getting a good report or recomendation for his next job and then with being fired.

The trail of redacted, stolen, lost and destroyed records is a testiment to the fact that the assassination was not just an attack on the man - JFK by a deranged lone nut, mafia goon, revengefull Cubans or renegade CIA but an inside job - a coup d'etat, and therefore not a benign crime that can go unsolved forever, but it was done by a continually active intelligence network that still functions and controls power today.

That will not change until the system is required to act - Congress is foreced to do its oversight duty on the records and those responsible for crimes related to the assassination are indicted by a grand jury and brought to justice.

There will be no justice for JFK, there will be no return of public confidence in their government and the system will be infected by those like the Review Board members and their staff until those two things happen.

BK

Thanks, Bill. I read Horne's story about the "culture", BUT that still does not tell us the WHO and HOW

of people willingly joining the conspiracy to cover up a murder. As Sylvia Meagher said...ACCESSORIES

AFTER THE FACT...who are guilty of a crime, since covering up a murder is a crime.

Jack

[William Kelly]

"...AND TODAY STILL" was you most important remark, Peter. SOMEONE still must hold the head together

to keep the brains from coming out, as Jackie tried to do. Who are they? What perpetuates this "eternal life"

of the coverup". What corporate soul exists in D.C. that knows the coverup must continue? Do the service

academies teach Coverup 101? Does the Pentagon have a DEPARTMENT OF CONTINUOUS COVERUP?

Jack

Personally, I feel the cover-up is as strong (or stronger) today than it was on and just after 11/22/63. You ask an important question, Jack - what entity[ies] and with what motive maintain this cover-up?! Douglass went a long, long way to explaining the WHY JFK was killed, IMO. Many of the better researchers, taken as a whole (and discounting the minor differences - which really don't effect the validity of their basic conclusion, i.e. Conspiracy and Cover-up!) have endlessly demonstrated the HOW JFK was killed and how it was NOT by the official scenario. Horne is but the latest to re-confirm and greatly augment this. Not as much covered is the why of the cover-up long after and THE IMPLICATIONS - PRACTICAL, PHILOSOPHICAL, POLITICAL AND ETHICAL. JFK was killed, IMO because he veered slightly toward Peace and away from a stance of perpetual Warfare that was enshrined in the 'Cold Warrior Mentality' of the Deep Political State Apparatus (and VERY profitable! - in financial and control terms!). I believe that those who really [and illegally/unconstitutionally/secretly] run the USA and all too much of the World KNOW that IF the TRUTH of the JFK Assassination became known and accepted by the U.S. Demos they would be removed from their hidden positions of power and rendered powerless [and imprisoned, if lucky enough not to be killed by the angry populace]. Thus, they will fight, IMO, with everything they have to maintain the secrets of 11/22/63 and all their subsequent [and manifold] follow-on similar operations - right up to this very day. They want neo-Mideavalism and we want a modern-Democracy. It is the ultimate battle for our Country, the Planet and Life on it. Everyone, take your side and fight! The 'stakes' are ULTIMATE! I fear the croupier is about to say 'le jeux sont fait' and the game will be over if we don't fight harder and faster. Our enemy - the enemy of truth and freedoms, equality and justice - has grown in strength since Dallas. We who see this must redouble our efforts or we will soon loose all. IMO. I'm shocked at how much we have already lost and most don't fight back, only recoil and tremble in fear. That is what they want of us. It is better to risk all standing on our 'feet' and head held high, then to live long comfortable slave-lives on our 'knees', heads bowed to those who would enslave us with their lies, covert ops, propaganda, secret control, and dirty tricks.

All correct, Peter...but answer me this. People who were not even alive back then are SUCKED INTO

CONTINUING THE COVERUP. How? This is assuming that most children are raised to be honest, truth-loving

and patriotic. Then they enlist in some branch of government and are told, "the government killed JFK

and it is your job to help us continue the coverup." So the new recruits pitch in and help, WITHOUT A SINGLE

NEW RECRUIT BLOWING THE WHISTLE. This seems highly unlikely to me.

Jack

Jack,

If you read the parts of Doug Horne's books that actually deal with the ARRBoard and its staff he talks about the culture of leadership - none of the board believed there was a conspiracy and hired a staff who felt the same - and they also believed that the official government records they were supposed to identify and release would support their beliefs.

Horne was hired despite his acknowledgement of having read books on the subject and being familiar with it and being a "conspiracy theorist," probably because they didn't have anybody else who was already cleared to handle classified military records, as Doug was having spent 20 years in the Navy.

When he pressed for records from reluctant agencies and wanted to tape record interviews and take the testimony of witnesses under oath, he was threatened first with not getting a good report or recomendation for his next job and then with being fired.

The trail of redacted, stolen, lost and destroyed records is a testiment to the fact that the assassination was not just an attack on the man - JFK by a deranged lone nut, mafia goon, revengefull Cubans or renegade CIA but an inside job - a coup d'etat, and therefore not a benign crime that can go unsolved forever, but it was done by a continually active intelligence network that still functions and controls power today.

That will not change until the system is required to act - Congress is foreced to do its oversight duty on the records and those responsible for crimes related to the assassination are indicted by a grand jury and brought to justice.

There will be no justice for JFK, there will be no return of public confidence in their government and the system will be infected by those like the Review Board members and their staff until those two things happen.

BK

Thanks, Bill. I read Horne's story about the "culture", BUT that still does not tell us the WHO and HOW

of people willingly joining the conspiracy to cover up a murder. As Sylvia Meagher said...ACCESSORIES

AFTER THE FACT...who are guilty of a crime, since covering up a murder is a crime.

Jack

That's why the Congressional Oversight Hearings are so important, because they would necessarily focus on the records and the coverup, and those who destroyed records, stole records and are wrongfully withholding them have committed crimes and broken laws that no cop will enforce.

Certainly the Secret Service official who destroyed the advance records AFTER the JFK Act was passed and the Review Board in operation knew what he was doing, knew that it was against the law, knew that his agency would back him up, knew that the Justice Department wouldn't respond, and knew that some people would get pissed off but they can't do anything about it.

BK