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ZAPRUDER FRAME # 374 & a few others


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Craig I must have missed a post (was someone claiming to see a blowout in frame 374?), but I dont see a blow out in frame 374

I blew up my copy of 374 for you (and me) but dont see a blow out like in 337

Dean

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_____________________________________________________

OK, so why was he falling forward? Perhaps because he'd been shot from the front and his body was rebounding from being slammed against the seat?

--Thomas

He was dead...

How was he dead?

He had a pulse when he arrived at parkland

No, he had no pulse. They heard a few cardiac beats, he was making a few spasmodic agonal breaths. But he had no pulse and no blood pressure.

As Carrico put it in his WC testimony:

" No pulse was present, and at that time, because of the inadequate respirations and the apparent airway..."

As Dr. Clark put it in his summary report...

"Dr. Carrico noted the President to have slow, agenal [sic] respiratory efforts. He could hear a heartbeat but found no pulse or blood pressure."

Sometimes the heart can take awhile to completely stop, but those beats are not a pulse.

He was essentially DOA. And fell over because he was dead ... for all intents and clinical purposes ... or, if you prefer, totally unconscious, at the very least.

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_____________________________________________________

OK, so why was he falling forward? Perhaps because he'd been shot from the front and his body was rebounding from being slammed against the seat?

--Thomas

He was dead...

How was he dead?

He had a pulse when he arrived at parkland

No, he had no pulse. They heard a few cardiac beats, he was making a few spasmodic agonal breaths. But he had no pulse and no blood pressure.

As Carrico put it in his WC testimony:

" No pulse was present, and at that time, because of the inadequate respirations and the apparent airway..."

As Dr. Clark put it in his summary report...

"Dr. Carrico noted the President to have slow, agenal [sic] respiratory efforts. He could hear a heartbeat but found no pulse or blood pressure."

Sometimes the heart can take awhile to completely stop, but those beats are not a pulse.

He was essentially DOA. And fell over because he was dead ... for all intents and clinical purposes ... or, if you prefer, totally unconscious, at the very least.

Thanks Dr Junkkarinen for that useless knowledge on the human pulse that I give two shnits about

Of course I know he was not going to come back to life from the head shot, that was not my point, my point was that Craig was saying he fell forward because he was dead and I disagree with that

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How much sunlight was there in Trauma Room 1?

:)

Good call Jim, how can anyone say that the Parkland doctors were wrong?

Just curious dean, Which "blowout" is the correct one? 337 or 374. Jim seems to find this question too hot to handle. Maybe you can answer it.

337 shows the blowout for sure

I just looked at my good copy of 374 for a minute or so, im going to have to get back to you after I study it in detail

So its the one near Jackies face on the back left? Total blowout? Hairs gone, scalp, skull gone...brains showing?

Craig

You can see the same thing I am seeing in 337

Hair is gone

Skull is blown out (I have a diagram drawn by a doctor with the back part of the skull and how the blow out would happen, I have to find it)

The brains are not showing in 337, however I am looking into Martins work and my own Z-frames for evidenece of brains showing

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_____________________________________________________

OK, so why was he falling forward? Perhaps because he'd been shot from the front and his body was rebounding from being slammed against the seat?

--Thomas

He was dead...

How was he dead?

He had a pulse when he arrived at parkland

No, he had no pulse. They heard a few cardiac beats, he was making a few spasmodic agonal breaths. But he had no pulse and no blood pressure.

As Carrico put it in his WC testimony:

" No pulse was present, and at that time, because of the inadequate respirations and the apparent airway..."

As Dr. Clark put it in his summary report...

"Dr. Carrico noted the President to have slow, agenal [sic] respiratory efforts. He could hear a heartbeat but found no pulse or blood pressure."

Sometimes the heart can take awhile to completely stop, but those beats are not a pulse.

He was essentially DOA. And fell over because he was dead ... for all intents and clinical purposes ... or, if you prefer, totally unconscious, at the very least.

Thanks Dr Junkkarinen for that useless knowledge on the human pulse that I give two shnits about

Of course I know he was not going to come back to life from the head shot, that was not my point, my point was that Craig was saying he fell forward because he was dead and I disagree with that

Disagree that he was already dead all you want.

I was responding to you saying he had a pulse when he arrived at Parkland.

He did NOT have a pulse when he arrived at Parkland. Your statement was incorrect.

Thus, your "schnits" being in a bunch, I expect.

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How much sunlight was there in Trauma Room 1?

:)

Good call Jim, how can anyone say that the Parkland doctors were wrong?

Just curious dean, Which "blowout" is the correct one? 337 or 374. Jim seems to find this question too hot to handle. Maybe you can answer it.

337 shows the blowout for sure

I just looked at my good copy of 374 for a minute or so, im going to have to get back to you after I study it in detail

Ok..just to be sure...the area Martin first indicated way up in this thread

If so, where is it from frame 314 onward and why exactly does the area show the tonality it does, ...like it should...for sunlight falling on hair as the head moves forward and down?

So its the one near Jackies face on the back left? Total blowout? Hairs gone, scalp, skull gone...brains showing?

Craig

You can see the same thing I am seeing in 337

Hair is gone

Skull is blown out (I have a diagram drawn by a doctor with the back part of the skull and how the blow out would happen, I have to find it)

The brains are not showing in 337, however I am looking into Martins work and my own Z-frames for evidenece of brains showing

?

Yea Dean I see Jackie push his hair up in the 335-337 sequence as she moves her hand up his head.

How can that be if the hair is gone (along with everything else)

Ok..just to be sure...the area Martin first indicated way up in this thread

If so, where is it from frame 314 onward and why exactly does the area show the tonality it does, ...like it should...for sunlight falling on hair as the head moves forward and down?

BTW, how can the brains not be showing if the skull is blow out?

Edited by Craig Lamson
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How much sunlight was there in Trauma Room 1?

:)

Good call Jim, how can anyone say that the Parkland doctors were wrong?

Just curious dean, Which "blowout" is the correct one? 337 or 374. Jim seems to find this question too hot to handle. Maybe you can answer it.

337 shows the blowout for sure

I just looked at my good copy of 374 for a minute or so, im going to have to get back to you after I study it in detail

Ok..just to be sure...the area Martin first indicated way up in this thread

If so, where is it from frame 314 onward and why exactly does the area show the tonality it does, ...like it should...for sunlight falling on hair as the head moves forward and down?

So its the one near Jackies face on the back left? Total blowout? Hairs gone, scalp, skull gone...brains showing?

Craig

You can see the same thing I am seeing in 337

Hair is gone

Skull is blown out (I have a diagram drawn by a doctor with the back part of the skull and how the blow out would happen, I have to find it)

The brains are not showing in 337, however I am looking into Martins work and my own Z-frames for evidenece of brains showing

?

Yea Dean I see Jackie push his hair up in the 335-337 sequence as she moves her hand up his head.

How can that be if the hair is gone (along with everything else)

Ok..just to be sure...the area Martin first indicated way up in this thread

If so, where is it from frame 314 onward and why exactly does the area show the tonality it does, ...like it should...for sunlight falling on hair as the head moves forward and down?

BTW, how can the brains not be showing if the skull is blow out?

Im going to have to watch the Z-film a couple times to see what you are talking about with Jackies hand running through his hair before I reply

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Yea Dean I see Jackie push his hair up in the 335-337 sequence as she moves her hand up his head.

How can that be if the hair is gone (along with everything else)

Ok..just to be sure...the area Martin first indicated way up in this thread

If so, where is it from frame 314 onward and why exactly does the area show the tonality it does, ...like it should...for sunlight falling on hair as the head moves forward and down?

BTW, how can the brains not be showing if the skull is blow out?

Hi Craig,

I don't see Jackie actually put her hand on the back of his head and push the hair up. I see her start to place her hand on the back of his head, hesitate, then place her hand down lower ... on his neck. At the same time, she has that horrified look on her face as she seems to be looking right at the back of his head, where the hair is all frizzy and oddly ruffled. That is the area where Parkland reported seeing a gaping wound, and as McClelland noted, part of the parietal bone and part of the occipital bone were fractured and sprung open. Parkland reported a gaping wound that they could see into, not that some large part of the back of his head was sheared off. He had a lot of hair and I think that gaping wound was down in there in that frizzed up hair we see. I think Jackie saw that bones sprung open gaping wound as she was about to place her hand there .... and thus the "O" of her mouth and haunting look as she looks right at it.

Up close and personal like, as they saw it at Parkland, and with JFK then on his back and rescusitative actions taken place, they would have been able to see brain in and oozing out of the wound they described. As we see on the Z film, and as some witnesses reported at the time, the right side of his skull burst open and with that force came a good portion of the contents of his head.

Bests,

Barb :-)

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Your statement was incorrect.

Just like your statement that Groden worked in a Photo lab in 1964 B)

ROTFL. I provided a cite that said Groden worked in a photo lab in NJ in 1964. Maybe it is right, maybe it is wrong. You said he was 19 and in the Army then. You were wrong. But why play such silly little girl games? This is a different issue.

More important that people have the facts of record straight, isn't it? :-)

No pulse at Parkland.

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Your statement was incorrect.

Just like your statement that Groden worked in a Photo lab in 1964 B)

ROTFL. I provided a cite that said Groden worked in a photo lab in NJ in 1964. Maybe it is right, maybe it is wrong. You said he was 19 and in the Army then. You were wrong. But why play such silly little girl games? This is a different issue.

More important that people have the facts of record straight, isn't it? :-)

No pulse at Parkland.

Keep telling yourself that your right Barb, I bet it makes you feel real good and helps you sleep at night while the nightmares of Z-film alteration invade your head all night long

And JFK did have a pulse at Parkland, he had a heartbeat so all they had to do was take his pulse on his chest B)

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