Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

[Mike Williams]

You're welcome Barb. I mean by blitz to back you up. Not sit on the sideline. But you're obviously not a victim type and the support is obviously there. OK, well he can consider stopping digging at some point, I suppose.

He might also consider trying to interpret his diggings a bit more accurately in the future as well. However I for one will not hold my breath. Fetzer does not seem long on common sense when it comes to interpreting anything.

Barb darlin you have the patience of a saint and the tenacity of a bull dog you go get em!

My best to you both!

Mike

[Barb Junkkarinen]

Yeah, but midsummer nights are heavenly.

A midsummer night's dream :-)

[Barb Junkkarinen]

You're welcome Barb. I mean by blitz to back you up. Not sit on the sideline. But you're obviously not a victim type and the support is obviously there. OK, well he can consider stopping digging at some point, I suppose.

Ahhhh! Okay, that kind of blitz .... indeed.

Cheers,

Barb :-)

Edited April 8, 2010 by Barb Junkkarinen

[Barb Junkkarinen]

JUDYTH: Funds and Equipment from the American Cancer Society

From Judyth herself: (Dec 29, 2003)

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassi...ace0bd75702efbb

(post by McA quoting Judyth from this page:

http://www.chattablogs.com/brightbill/archives/008403.html )

"By the time I reached New Orleans, I had been working in cancer

research in two hospitals, as well as at Roswell Park Institute in

Buffalo, New York, , at St. Francis College, and at the University of

Florida, all under grants from the National Science Foundation, the

National Insitute of Health, The American Cancer Society, Elki Lilly,

and the Rockefeller Foundation. I have newspaper articles describing

all these grants, scholarships and training. I was trained rapidly as

a result of Sputnik."

In her book, Judyth says this on page 22 [emphasis mine]:

"My assignment that summer [at RP-bj], which would continue in varied

forms at two institutions of higher learning was to find what caused

cancer to become most deadly. In fact,this assignment would continue

to be mine for the next two years, FUNDED BY THE AMERICAN CANCER

SOCIETY, the National Science Foundation and other agencies via

special grants."

This is marked for source note 59, which appears on page 650 and says:

"I have a sheaf of documents showing the apportionment of grants to

the University of Florida under which I was funded....."

Also on page 22:

"Additional support for my continued research soon appeared via grants

from the American Cancer Society and the National Institute of

Health."

This goes to source note 60, pg 650 in which she says she also

received inducements from a list of other colleges.

As originally posted on 5-15-08 elsewhere, and here on the Ed Forum just yesterday, in the

"JUDYTH: National Science Foundation

scholarship and grants" post, there is no mention of Judyth in their

annual reports that detail every penny given and to whom. I posted

the links to the annual reports from 1961, 1962 and 1963.

Starting in early April 2008, I was in contact with the American Cancer

Society seeking to verify her claims of multiple instances of help

from the American Cancer Society for her research.

They'd been looking, sending the query off to assorted people and

places to look into.

Here's a letter I received the end of April.

----Original Message-----

From: American Cancer Society - Contact Us

[mailto:undl@emailcenter.cancer.org]

Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 10:25 AM

To: barbjfk@comcast.net

Subject: RE: American Cancer Society

[several lines of how to reply deleted]

Dear Barb Junkkarinen,

Thank you for your patience while your inquiry about Judy A. Vary is

being researched. To assist us in further researching this matter,

please reply with information about institution(s) Judy Vary attended.

At this point, we have been unsuccessful in finding anything. Your

response will receive priority attention.

Thank you for contacting your American Cancer Society.

Stacey

Online Cancer Information Specialist

I replied with this:

From: barbjfk@comcast.net [mailto:barbjfk@comcast.net]

Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 10:55 AM

To: American Cancer Society - Contact Us

Subject: (THREAD ID:1-1LR1WGX) (ACTIVITY ID:1-1O0PISN)

Hello, Stacey!

I thank you for researching this matter for me!

In response to your questions below, in addition to Manatee High

School in Florida, Judy A. Vary attended :

-St. Francis College, Ft. Wayne, Indiana in the Fall of 1961.

- University of Florida, Gainesville, Spring 1962 through Spring 1963.

In addition to any cash grants, scholarships, press releases, etc,

there may have been equipment supplied to her for her research.

Here is a link to a letter from the ACS to St. Francis College dated

October 7, 1961 ... it apparently accompanied a check for $250, and

notes it is a grant awarded her for her high school science project

while a senior in high school that Spring.

http://the-puzzle-palace.com/JudythACSmoneyletter.jpeg

That is the only ACS help I have been able to document so far;

allegedly, additional cash grants as well as equipment and supplies

followed for the next couple of years ... and that is what I need to

document one way or the other.

I thank you so much and appreciate the "priority attention" status!

Bests,

Barb :-)

After a couple more exchanges over the next 3 months involving a

couple of different ACS people, I received this from the American

Cancer Society:

From:

American Cancer Society - Contact Us <undl@emailcenter.cancer.org>

To: barbjfk@comcast.net

Subject: RE: RE: (THREAD ID:1-1LR1WGX) (ACTIVITY ID:1-1PU0FJ0)

Date: 7/30/2008 11:23:13 AM

[several lines of reply instructions deleted-bj]

Dear Barb Junkkarinen,

Thank you for your patience as the American Cancer Society researched

your inquiry. The Society has thoroughly researched your question and

found no record of a grant or scholarship being awarded to Judyth

(Judy) Vary so many years ago.

Thank you for contacting your American Cancer Society.

Alicia

Online Cancer Information Specialist

Barb :-)

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

JIM REPLIES TO BARBARA'S BLIZZARD OF RUBBISH POSTS ABOUT NOTHING

Complete and total rubbish. Why should Barb be making a federal offense over information that her own son had posted on Facebook? In case she hasn't noticed, Facebook is a public source. There is nothing unusual about her son posting information about his career, as many of other millions of people have done, where what they do for a living is available in their Facebook page. It is not private. In fact, it is very rare for somebody to post absolutely nothing on themselves, like Barb. What is the problem with her son saying on his Facebook page that he has an association with Air Force ROTC? Nothing at all! I participated in the Navy ROTC myself as an undergraduate at Princeton, where, junior year, I took the Marine Corps option. I bear him no malice. What is weird and revealing is trying to make such a brouhaha out of a simple mistake on my part in taking something sent to me from her son's site to have been sent to me from her site. Everyone reading this thread can compare the content of the posts from Judyth with the lack of content in the posts from Junkkarinen and her cheering squad. These cheap shots are childish beyond measure.

You're welcome Barb. I mean by blitz to back you up. Not sit on the sideline. But you're obviously not a victim type and the support is obviously there. OK, well he can consider stopping digging at some point, I suppose.

Ahhhh! Okay, that kind of blitz .... indeed.

Cheers,

Barb :-)

Edited April 8, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

JUDYTH COMMENTS ON JUNKKARINEN'S "FACT CHECKING" ABILITIES

NOTE: In post #1011, Barb (rather sanctimoniously asserts), "I would never apologize to anyone for fact checking their claims. The very idea is ludicrous. Research requires fact checking claims. Even you have made comments about how you wouldn't expect anyone to believe such claims as these without proof ... and assuring people you have the proof." But for that role, a person has to be able to do competent "fact checking". Below is her attempt to "fact check" Judyth's statements about collecting murine urine, based upon her "own" lab experience but revealing her lack of experience with cancer research. Judyth only calls "Three Strikes!", but there appear to be many blunders here. This is pseduo-scientific fakery. With this degree of incompetence, just what exactly does her gang have to cheer about?

JUDYTH REPORTS ON BARB'S "CRITIQUE" OF JVB'S CANCER RESEARCH

Background: Barb J wanted readers to believe that murine urine (mouse urine) could not be used to determine if a metastasis to the bladder in my mice with lymphoma occurred in my cancer research, even though she knew nothing about the project and asserted that she knew all about urine samples (in humans), since she herself had collected urine samples in a clinic. Her activities as described were so far from what I was doing with cancerous mice that I was astounded.

Her objective was to try to prove that I would not have collected mouse urine. She wants readers to believe that an incident involving odor and wetness on my clothing came from my urinating on myself rather than having spilled mouse urine on my teacher's coat, which had to be washed off. A student reported that I pee'd on myself because I was afraid to stand before an English class. Actually, I was embarrassed because my clothing was wet and I stank like mouse urine. In my lab, hurrying to leave to go to English class, I had knocked over a vial of mouse urine onto my dress and a teacher's raincoat, and washing it off basically just spread the odor all over me.

Then I had to attend my English class and was embarrassed about my wet, smelly clothing. A student reported the incident to a hostile newspaper reporter. The student also said my mice at one point had been released, and since they were all white, how could I tell which were which after they were caught again? However, I then produced a newspaper article describing how the mice had been color-coded purple, yellow, etc. with Easter egg food coloring to keep them distinguishable in case any got loose.The student was simply ignorant of that fact because only the white ones had got loose.

As for my being so scared to stand in front of my English class that I pee'd on myself, I had already participated om many public events. I had been one of just four persons in the Sophomore Class Play; I had been top winner in my class magazine drive (door to door magazine sales); I had made civics' speeches, and much more.

Barb J made fun of the idea that I worked with mouse urine collections. She stated I would not be able to collect enough mouse urine to spill on myself and that, in cancer research, I would not have collected any. She misspells terms and actually mentions one of the famous doctors who inspired me along the way, misspelling his name, too!

While I do not doubt she had worked in some kind of general lab setting, she does not understand my research.

Her feeble knowledge of genuine cancer research is clearly revealed in the following exchange, even as she attempts to mock my work, where the euphemism she likes to use to describe ridicule is "fact-checking". By now, no doubt, she has an oncologist at her side, to assist her from embarrassing herself like this today. But it would be difficult to imagine a more telling illustration of her scientific ignorance, which, of course, is augmented by her expressions of prejudice mixed with ad hominem arguments.

==My COMMENTS are like this==

[shackelford wrote] <msha...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in December 2008:

> Judyth comments on Barb's blithering ignorance regarding her mouse

> research:

BJ: Hilarious. Entertaining, but a very simplistic and naive view of urine

for cytology and what is involved in the handling, processing and

preparation of specimens so slides can be read for cancerous cells.

==Barb assumes that fresh murine urine specimens weren’t analyzed in 1960-61==

BJ: And Mother of God preserve us ... or at least put some preservative in

those beakers of how many days old pooled mouse urine...good for what

tests depending on individual test requirements and specifications one

has to wonder. Ewwwwwy!

==Refrigeration is STILL the preferred method, but Barb assumes the murine

urine was kept a long time. Strike one, Barb, who does not offer citations but

specializes in personal attacks==

BJ: I started out taking what Judyth wrote line by line, but it just got

too ridiculous. When I came to,

"...mouse urine from the dead mouse is sucked out

with a hypodermic needle, and a few drops are checked under the

microscope for metastases. "

I just had to stop. Reminds me of her one handed whirl girl claims of

the lab work she claims she did at the Jackson Mental Hospital doing

red cell counts on packed red cells (LOL!)

==Barb’s; cyber-laughter and ad hominem name-calling takes the place, for her, of actual references. The RBC count was NOT performed on packed RBC’s. Basic blood profile stats were already available. I read them all, then double-checked slides to make sure the stats were competent. It was my judgment on whether or not to proceed from there: further analysis involved great expense, and I had to make sure it would be worth it. Barb deliberately misleads her readers. Inaccurately conflating my procedures, Barb writes next:==

BJ: and looking for "special" white cells in drops of blood

==Barb acts as if table centrifuges didn’t exist. The work was advanced. Finally, two years after I wrote of what I developed, in 1999, comes evidence that WBC counts are indeed important to determine cancer — finally confirmed over 35 years after I discovered essentially the same thing, impressing Ochsner:

"Inflammatory processes are implicated in the development and progression of cancer," write Anoop Shankar, MD, PhD, from the National University of Singapore, and colleagues. …”We examined the prospective relationship between circulating WBC count and cancer mortality…. The primary endpoint was all cancer mortality determined from vital status as of December 31, 2001…”

“Higher WBC count was associated positively with all cancer mortality. After adjustment for age, sex, education, body mass index, hematocrit level, alcohol consumption, physical inactivity, smoking, weekly aspirin use, diabetes mellitus or fasting hyperglycemia status, and fasting glucose levels, the multivariable relative risk (RR) for all cancer mortality for the highest quartile of WBC count (>/=7,400 cells/μL) vs the lowest quartile (</=5,300 cells/μL) was 1.73 (95% confidence interval [CI], 1.18 - 2.55)…”==

BJ: ….under a microscope ... whatever nonsensical gibberish she wrote.

==Barb J. uses prejudice-loaded words such as ‘nonsensical gibberish” while misrepresenting what occurred, assuming readers will decide that her mockery means she knows more. Barb, in her ignorance, says:==

BJ: A few drops of fresh, just "sucked out" by syringe, urine on a slide

under a microscope to detect cancer cells? Please.

==Note this from Mayo Clinic, (and near the bottom of this long post, an even better example):

“For a urine cytology test, you provide a urine sample. …A lab technician will process the urine to retrieve any normal and, if present, abnormal cells and prepare them for analysis under a microscope. A trained pathologist will then examine the specimen to look for cancer cells…”

Note: these cells do not have to be stained if you know what you’re looking at.

ALSO: Taneka, Zhou, et al, wrote: “…voided urine was collected on slides weekly for 3 weeks and observed … cells in spontaneously voided urine varied by cell line and increased with time... All mice with …(fluorescently identified cancer) cells in the urine had …bladder tumors. CONCLUSIONS: Examining urine for (fluorescing cancerous) cells is less sensitive than imaging surgically exposed bladders but it is 100% specific.”

Note the use of slides and ‘voided urine’ ---mouse examples..You don’t have to subject these cancerous cells to fluorescent additives to spot them. Strike two, Barb! BJ next writes:==

BJ: Cancer cells detected through urine for cytology can be from

other places in the urinary tract, btw ... not just the bladder.

==Barb is THE cancer expert? Citation, please. And if the cells were shed from the urinary tract instead of the bladder? I wasn’t going to work to remove a bladder and inspect its teeny-tiny opened-up interior under a microscope, if I saw no cancer cells in the aspiraed urine. Not with 175 mice at a time to dissect. I was doing so much dissection that my mother begged me never to dissect any pet, as I had a turtle that died when I was at St. Francis, and she was afraid I’d dissected even it. I still have the letter.==

BJ (carrying on): Brain, bone, liver ... and, I think, the adrenal glands,

are the most common sites of lung cancer metasteses, though it can spread to

virtually any organ. Was she routinely checking those more common sites too?

==Among other failings in her medical ‘knowledge,’ Barb cannot spell “metastases,” Does she actually believe I would not inspect all major organs and systems? That’s precisely why I checked bladder contents. Part of the over-all procedure.==

BJ: …In all her detailed explanations of her mouse cancer doings

over all these years, I don't recall ever hearing about checking mouse

urine for metasteses to the bladder ... or checking of any sort for

the same to other organs.

==Barb never asked. All good researchers doing full examinations of mice for cancer also check the bladder, where metastatic activity might be found. BJ, cancer expert, can’t even spell “METASTASES” a second time correctly. In the case of the tumors of the mice killed at Dave Ferrie’s, I’m on record describing and picturing intraperitoneal tumors of great size that were excised, opened, categoried, and weighed, along with the lung cancer tumors. Photos of these huge tumors were displayed even in the versions of my stolen books.

Here’s a reference: Gerber, Bigelo, Lord, et al, wrote: “Controlling metastases remains a critical problem in cancer biology. Within the peritoneal cavity …We found that the vasculature within these aggregates contained CD105+ vessels and vascular sprouts, both indicators of active angiogenesis. ...metastatic tumor cells preferentially grow at sites rich in proangiogenic vessels, apparently stimulated by angiogenic factors produced by mesothelial cells.”==

BJ writes: This stuff is familiar to me

==No, it is obviously not.==

BJ:….because in my years in the lab, it sometimes

==Just "sometimes"?==

BJ …happened on my watch that a patient needed to collect a

urine for cytology and sometimes I was the one handy to instruct the

patient, or the doctor, and/or handle the specimen when it came in.

==BJ thinks this statement will make the reader believe she is an expert in handling cancerous mouse urine and identifying murine bladder cancers, including criticizing my methodology. BJ had the unrelated experience of collecting little cups full of people's urine and preparing the urine samples for tests.==

BJ: Years later, I wrote the hospital's lab services manual that includes

the specimen collection and handling requirements for every test ...

including cytology specimens.

==Citation? If she wrote such instructions, they involved how to get a clean urine sample when wee-weeing into a cup, and that it needed then to be prepared for a doctor or cytologist to examine. She does not seem to have done much, herself, with the wee-wee==

BJ: I've also handled processing and preparing cytology specs for examination

by the pathologist ... in the olden days.

=="Processing and preparing" cytology specimens? Don't you mean, preparing and processing cytology specimens? What kind? From urine samples? "In the olden days"? Was BJ demoted to just collecting urine samples, later, for some reason?

As for me, I was trained by cancer specialists and pathologists, two of whom had been recently trained at Oak Ridge, and by others running the new oncology labs at Manatee Memorial Hospital and at Sarasota. I have mentioned going to Manatee Memorial Hospital’s basement, where the new lab was located, and creating many tissues slides there. Gee, where did all those slides of mouse cancer tissues and blood materials come from, that Nobel Prize winner Urey inspected in my lab, along with Drs. Ochsner and Moore? Pathologists and doctors overlooked my work until I was deemed able to handle all murine specs alone. Was Barb trained by pathologists? What's her background?==

BJ: For years now there is a fully staffed dept of cytotechnologists and

histologists who do all that for themselves

==I did my own histology studies, BJ. And they were vetted.==

BJ: ...and for the pathologists who review all abnormal cytology finds, and,

of course, attend to grossing all tissues as well as reading the slides/block preparations.

==So what? Did BJ do it before they came along? Is that what she means? I think not I mention using a microtome in the books. It's used to slice blocks of cells set in paraffin to make slides. How happy I was to get my first micrtome. What would I be wanting THAT for?==

BJ: Tell her to google more, Martin...she should be able to come up with

the specimen handling and processing requirements for performance of

urine for cytology. Cell degradation, fixation, the button, staining

==BJ assumes everything has to be stained or set in balsam? BJ needs to google and look at all the ‘fresh urine’ and ‘murine cancer’ entries. Of course, there are other search terms she’d need to find everything, such as ‘distilled water’ and ‘brushing’ to find out what I was doing.==

BJ... she doesn't seem to have a clue what all is involved. It is not the quick look

at a few drops of fresh urine under the microscope she seems to be making it out to be ...

==BJ says 'seems' because she has no idea what I was doing with the murine urine. I didn't inspect "a few drops of fresh urine under the microscope"--she is just guessing, because she does not know the procedure I used. She is 100% in error here. It was the sediment, what first drifts down into the hypo,in those ten drops of urine, that was aspirated from every mouse bladder, then inspected.==

BJ: to decide whether or not to open the bladder on a dead mouse, no less (sigh).

==Nonsense. You use the sediment. It settles at the bottom of the hypo cylinder in just a few minutes. Lots of junk there, a lot of various cells, and my interest wasin any abnormal cells present. If such were present, then the bladder was opened for inspection. I wasn't going to open every bladder when I could look a the sediment under a microscope, which was much faster. Spencer’s “Urinalysis” manual for technicians describes why fresh urine is used, and why we do not need to stain anything:

“ The specimen used for microscopic examination should be as fresh as possible. Red cells and many formed solids tend to disintegrate upon standing, particularly if the specimen is warm or alkaline….(the urine sediment is accessed)… Place a coverslip over the drop and place under the microscope. Although commercial stains are available to highlight cellular elements, examination of unstained urine is usually adequate…Urine sediment is assessed under a high power field (HPF) for the presence of red and white blood cells. Normally, there should be only an occasional red blood cell in the urine (2-3 per high power field). Hematuria , the presence of abnormal numbers of red blood cells in the urine may be due to: Glomerular disease …Tumors…”

Metastases into the bladder from a lung cancer proved to be so rare I didn’t bother to open the bladder unless intrigued by what I saw in a drop of sediment. I also wanted the rest of urine saved, to analyze for gross chemical differences between mice with lung cancer and the controls.. After all, this was only 1960-61.==

BJ: "Blithering ignorance" is a pretty darn good description overall here,

==BJ descends to name calling instead of using citations. She attacks me as if she were an oncology ‘expert’ who, however, doesn’t understand the concept of using fresh urine when examining murine urine for unusual cells in the sediment portion of the samples, and that the urine then was gong to be analyzed to see if it differed from the urine of normal (control) animals as to gross composition, attained by studying urine samples using column chromatography.I attach a photo where you can see tall glass columns for chromatography in the background, for processing mouse urine samples.==

BJ: imo ...

==More ‘opinion’ from Barb!==

BJ: on her part for what she expects people to swallow...and perhaps

of you for once again swallowing anything she says whole. Cripes, Martin,

does it ever occur to you to check ANYthing she spews forth?

=="spews forth" of course means to vomit. Barb poisons the reader. WHO CHECKS BARB?.==

BJ: Either one of you ever heard of Papanicalaou? I'm sure she has

... all us girls have.

== Nope. NONE of "us girls" ever heard of “Papanicalaou” -- for “ Papanicalaou” doesn’t exist! Once again, Barb is mis-spelling a very important word. She means “Papanicolaou.” He was a hero in Florida, and of course I leaned on his work. He actually produced a fine paper about using sediment smears to detect urinary tract cancer, which gave me the very idea to check the sediment in my mouse urine, using a slide—better known as a “urine sediment smear”, to wit:

Papanicolaou, George N; Marshall, Victor F. URINE SEDIMENT SMEARS AS A DIAGNOSTIC PROCEDURE IN CANCERS OF THE URINARY TRACT. Science. 1945 May 18;101(2629):519–520. [PubMed] STRIKE THREE, BARB!

== “Barb the researcher” will no doubt paste together another ‘masterpiece’ with which to assail me. Her ‘research’ is mostly a mixture of name-calling and half-baked lab memories.==

BJ: And she never did address the comment ... just how many mice DOES it

take to collect a beaker of urine ... and she claims there were TWO beakers. One

has to wonder just how many dead mice she was handling on a daily basis.

==I address it now, THOUGH WAS NEVER ASKED -- though am on my way to my lovely little apartment in Turkey.

NOTE: There were several major mouse kills, as well as regular individual kills. From 75 adult mice, 12-15 ml of urine was possible. Another 75 controls were killed at the same time. Urine collections were thereby separated into two types. The urine sediment was washed from the slide with a hypodermic needle containing a pre-measured amount of distilled water into a very small beaker. The urine that remained in the first syringe was also emptied into the same small beaker, creating. 24-30 ml. of diluted urine in each beaker. This urine was subjected to column chromatography, within 2-3 days. The smell was obscene, the beaker very small, the needle very long, and -- just once -- I spilled it (control beaker)==

BJ: Her other explanations and ramblings are about as convincing as her

musings on detecting cancer cells in a few drops of, as she explains it, fresh urine.

==BJ. uses verbiage such as ‘ramblings’ and ‘musings’ to continue to sway the reader while simultaneously continuing to fail to cite anything to back up her own statements.Nor does she understand what I was doing, as explained above.==

BJ: This was a far from impressive punt.

==Barb needs to go back to college. ‘Sometimes’ overseeing urine sample collection from human clients and writing a handbook on how to do the simplistic and common procedures in a modern lab , etc. hardly constitutes expertise in determining murine metastatic activity and related analytical procedures back in 1960-1961.

Time to go home and read a nice article by Papanicolaou, BJ. And please tell John McAdams that I pray for him every day, as I am a Catholic, just as he is, and aware that we will both stand before God, at which time he will have to explain why he did what he did to me, my family, and my life. And for what expected reward. But perhaps he does not actually believe in God. That would explain a good deal.==

Judyth Vary Bakerr

Edited April 9, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Josiah Thompson]

JIM REPLIES TO BARBARA'S BLIZZARD OF RUBBISH POSTS ABOUT NOTHING

Complete and total rubbish. Why should Barb be making a federal offense over information that her own son had posted on Facebook? In case she hasn't noticed, Facebook is a public source. There is nothing unusual about her son posting information about his career, as many of other millions of people have done, where what they do for a living is available in their Facebook page. It is not private. In fact, it is very rare for somebody to post absolutely nothing on themselves, like Barb. What is the problem with her son saying on his Facebook page that he has an association with Air Force ROTC? Nothing at all! I participated in the Navy ROTC myself as an undergraduate at Princeton, where, junior year, I took the Marine Corps option. I bear him no malice. What is weird and revealing is trying to make such a brouhaha out of a simple mistake on my part in taking something sent to me from her son's site to have been sent to me from her site. Everyone reading this thread can compare the content of the posts from Judyth with the lack of content in the posts from Junkkarinen and her cheering squad. These cheap shots are childish beyond measure...

"Cheap shots" from Barb... you must be kidding. If having something to do with ROTC is such an estimable association (and it is), why did you try to slime Barb with the connection? You know you were on the way to claiming that ROTC was only the cover for her as a goverment intelligent operative. When you can't win an argument against someone you move to Plan B: trying to slime them with some arcane biographical fact.

So let me ask, Professor: you cite Barb's "cheering squad." Do you think that all these folks who are jeering you are government agents or at least "ROTC fellow travelers?"

Josiah Thompson

[Jack White]

Why (serious question) did such an accomplished cancer researcher

abandon her medical pursuits after such a brilliant start? She had the

backing of many prestigious doctors and groups, and her research

might have led to a cure for cancer. Perhaps a great loss to the medical

field that she did not continue her chosen career. I was impressed that

she came up with the idea of dyeing the mice different colors. I bet

that impressed medical research people.

Instead of pursuing the medical field, she now sits in self-imposed exile,

writing memoirs on a Hungarian keyboard. Sad.

Jack

Edited April 9, 2010 by Jack White

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Jack,

She was only 19, but she was doing better research on cancer than the

leading experts in the nation. They lured her to New Orleans with the

promise of scholarships and a medical career to enlist her assistance in

their projects, where she began collaborating with Dr. Mary Sherman,

David Ferrie, and Dr. Alton Ochsner, who was the head of the American

Cancer Society. Please do us both the favor and listen to Ed Haslam's

interview with me, which only runs an hour. It will be broadcast Friday

with Jesse Ventura the first hour and Ed the second on "The Real Deal",

revereradio.net, from 5-7 PM/CT. But you can also catch my interview

with Ed Haslam at http://religionandmorality.net/Podcasts/Haslam/ I

urge you to listen, Jack. It provides the background to Judyth and Lee.

Jim

Why (serious question) did such an accomplished cancer researcher

abandon her medical pursuits after such a brilliant start? She had the

backing of many prestigious doctors and groups, and her research

might have led to a cure for cancer. Perhaps a great loss to the medical

field that she did not continue her chosen career. I was impressed that

she came up with the idea of dyeing the mice different colors. I bet

that impressed medical research people.

Instead of pursuing the medical field, she now sits in self-imposed exile,

writing memoirs on a Hungarian keyboard. Sad.

Jack

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

JUDYTH RESPONDS TO JACK'S INQUIRIES ABOUT HER

Dear Jack, thank you for your observations. They are appreciated. I have

interposed answers to your comments and quesions in what you posted:

Why (serious question) did such an accomplished cancer researcher

abandon her medical pursuits after such a brilliant start?

==I was told I would be killed==

She had the backing of many prestigious doctors and groups, and her

research might have led to a cure for cancer.

==As my book explains, I lost beloved relatives and friends to cancer.

My life goal was to cure cancer. If I could get in a lab today, I could guide

such a lab to a cure for soft tissue cancers within a few years. I was

banned by Ochsner, the all-powerful.==

Perhaps a great loss to the medical field that she did not continue her

chosen career. I was impressed that she came up with the idea of dyeing

the mice different colors. I bet that impressed medical research people.

==Color-coding was of no concern to them, Jack. Their interest was in the

fact that I was able to induce cancer in mice in only 7 days. I used newborn

mice without developed immune systems--they were germ-free, obtained

from Dr. Reynier (my esteemed and noted friend in Tampa). Their immune

systems were unable to withstand cancer cell injections combined with

carcinogens.

Today such experimens are duplicated regularly, but in 1960, it was unheard-of.

Immunologically challenged mice and cancer induction was still a developing

science. For such reasons, I was given 12 hours of tutelage in experiment

structure and strategies by Dr. (Sir) Robinson, probably the world's greatest

biochemist in 1961, and a Nobel Prize winner. He and his wife paid for my

transportation costs to Roswell Park that summer. (They lived in Buffalo, NY,

where RPMI was located).

After personally assessing my work, along with Dr. Ochsner, and Nobelist Dr.

Urey, Dr. George Moore had me placed in his own private laboratory at RPMI,

as reported by their history dept. I was also working in RPMI's summer program,

where I learned how to safely handle the SV40 monkey virus and the Friend virus,

using radiation, under the tutelage of Dr. James Grace, for 8 weeks.

I also worked for 11 weeks under Dr. Moore, helping to create the world's best

cancer-growing medium, which would be released a few years later as RPMI-1640,

the world's most famous cancer-growing medium, still used today as the #1 such

medium. That medium, which I improved independently in 1962, made it possible

for me to grow cancer cells faster and better than anybody else in the world,

outside of RPMI, in 1963, facilitating my efforts in New Orleans in 1963.==

Instead of pursuing the medical field, she now sits in self-imposed exile,

writing memoirs on a Hungarian keyboard. Sad.

==They are important memoirs. People need to know about biowarfare and

that cancer could have been cured decades ago, but it's a Big Pharma profitable

business to use chemotherapy and let people suffer, instead. I repeat, I could be

a research scientist now. Today. I could lead a lab to a cancer cure in a few years.

But they stopped me at every turn.

People are still being contaminated with SV40/SV-other viruses today, through

vaccines that have their viruses grown on infected monkey tissues--to this very

hour. Read Dr. Mary's Monkey by Edward T. Haslam. Nobody should take a

vaccine created off monkey kidney tissues.

As for my exile, it is not self-imposed, Jack. Since 2003, after THE LOVE AFFAIR

was banned by the History Channel, I tried to return twice to the US, despite threats,

but due to new threats, harassment and bad things happening to my family on a

constant basis, I went overseas to teach, then had such a serious death threat that

I was forced to leave a good teaching position in Hungary, with free housing and

medical insurance, to seek temporary shelter in the EU political asylum system,

where I was protected best as the Swedes could manage under the laws (the US is

NOT supposed to be an unsafe country for an American). For over ten months, in

frustrated poverty, I remained there as my family, at great sacrifice, arranged safe,

remote accommodations in two countries, where friends would be nearby who could

assure my safety.

Self-imposed? I have grand-children I adore who are forgetting my existence, Jack.

I am not allowed to work overseas, either, and I won't cheat and work under the

table as some do. I am law-abiding. So I have numerous needs hard to pay for,

which you might take for granted, such as dental care, heating, and medicine.

There's no medicare overseas. Thank you for writing.==

JVB

Why (serious question) did such an accomplished cancer researcher

abandon her medical pursuits after such a brilliant start? She had the

backing of many prestigious doctors and groups, and her research

might have led to a cure for cancer. Perhaps a great loss to the medical

field that she did not continue her chosen career. I was impressed that

she came up with the idea of dyeing the mice different colors. I bet

that impressed medical research people.

Instead of pursuing the medical field, she now sits in self-imposed exile,

writing memoirs on a Hungarian keyboard. Sad.

Jack

[David Lifton]

Barb,

You get a small gold star for doing all this work.

Same goes for Anthony Marsh, for actually digging up this obscure letter at the JFK Library.

When are people going to catch on and stop wasting time on this lady?

Life is finite.

Should even a minute be wasted on this lady, and her fictions?

DSL

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

David,

This is very disappointing. There is a mass of evidence that she is "the real deal".

You are committing an enormous blunder by persisting in your ignorant state of

mind, especially when I have offered suggestions about learning more. This will

go down as the greatest mistake in the history of your research on JFK. And, no

doubt, I will have to be the one to deliver the message when the time has come.

I entreat you, once again, for perhaps the third or the fourth time, get a copy of

Ed Haslam, DR. MARY'S MONKEY, and, for openers, listen to my interview with him

on "The Real Deal", revereradio.net, from 5-7 PM/CT, where he will be my guest

the second hour following my first hour interview with Jesse Ventura, AMERICAN

CONSPIRACIES. And for you to commend Barb for her rubbish is inexcusable.

Jim

P.S. The time has come for you to send me a copy of the cassette of your illegal

tape recording of your conversation with Judyth. Given this post, I am no longer

inclined to take your word for anything about her. Send it to me. She does not

want to bring legal action against you, but your repeated intrusion here is costing

you my respect. I now need to verify the claims you have made. Please send it.

Barb,

You get a small gold star for doing all this work.

Same goes for Anthony Marsh, for actually digging up this obscure letter at the JFK Library.

When are people going to catch on and stop wasting time on this lady?

Life is finite.

Should even a minute be wasted on this lady, and her fictions?

DSL

Edited April 9, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Dean Hagerman]

This will go down as the greatest mistake in the history of your research on JFK.

I know I said Im no longer going to post in this thread, but look what Judyth has done Jim!

How in the world could you say something like this about David?

Please Jim you can back Judyth all you want, but please dont destroy any friendships over Judyth

Im not looking for a mean spirited reply from you like you gave me last time Jim, because you know that I have and still will back you up on ANY of you're assassination theories Jim except with Judyth, her story is fake, just like James Files.

I hope you read my post with understanding instead of anger because im always on you're side, I just dont agree with whats going on in this thread

Dean

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

To make this post, you have no comprehension whatsoever of what has been going on here. Unbelievable!

This will go down as the greatest mistake in the history of your research on JFK.

I know I said Im no longer going to post in this thread, but look what Judyth has done Jim!

How in the world could you say something like this about David?

Please Jim you can back Judyth all you want, but please dont destroy any friendships over Judyth

Im not looking for a mean spirited reply from you like you gave me last time Jim, because you know that I have and still will back you up on ANY of you're assassination theories Jim except with Judyth, her story is fake, just like James Files.

I hope you read my post with understanding instead of anger because im always on you're side, I just dont agree with whats going on in this thread

Dean

[Barb Junkkarinen]

You're welcome Barb. I mean by blitz to back you up. Not sit on the sideline. But you're obviously not a victim type and the support is obviously there. OK, well he can consider stopping digging at some point, I suppose.

He might also consider trying to interpret his diggings a bit more accurately in the future as well. However I for one will not hold my breath. Fetzer does not seem long on common sense when it comes to interpreting anything.

Barb darlin you have the patience of a saint and the tenacity of a bull dog you go get em!

My best to you both!

Mike

Hi Mike,

Aren't you a sweet thang! Patience is not always my forte' ... but no one could argue against my having a bit of a stubborn streak, especially when principles are involved.

Bests to you too!

Barb :-)