Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

[Greg Burnham]

[...snip...] So now we have a truly unpleasant field of discussion. I keep remembering how things were back when you and I started out in this field. How you and I and others shared information back and forth and helped advance a common agenda.. How we hoped each other’s work would succeed and how we criticized arguments that we believed weren’t up to snuff. Back then, assassination research was sort of fun.

This last thread isn’t fun. [snip ...]

Josiah Thompson

JFK movie quote:

Man X [PROUTY]: Well that's the real question, isn't it? Why? The how and the who is just scenery for the public. Oswald, Ruby, Cuba, the Mafia. Keeps 'em guessing like some kind of parlor game, prevents 'em from asking the most important question, why? Why was Kennedy killed? Who benefited? Who has the power to cover it up? Who?

[William Kelly]

Has anybody checked into the background of the OTHER JVB?

Does anyone know what the purpose of Oswald's fake vaccine card was for?

Thanks,

BK

QUOTE (Jack White @ Apr 22 2010, 05:16 PM)

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...&pid=190450

But Jim...Mary Sherman died at home in her apartment. If the LINEAR ACCELERATOR was located in the Public Health Hospital, how could it have been responsible for her death?

Have you read the reports of her death?

In post #1479, I identified the location of the linear particle accelerator:

None of it can be known with certainty, but the basic elements are very strongly supported. It would be a mistake to suppose that every aspect of her story has to be supported to the same degree as every other. Among the 17 findings that Haslam enumerates, which I have reiterated above, the most important and best supported concern Judyth's ability to conduct reseach on cancer, that she was induced to come to New Orleans by Alton Ochsner, that she met and worked with Mary Sherman, David Ferrie, and Lee Oswald, that Mary was killed by a massive source of electricity (almost certainly the linear particle accelerator at the Public Health Hospital), and that Judyth was summarily dismissed by Ochsner after she complained about the prisoner who was used in a (fatal) experiment conducted without informed consent.

In post #1495, he asks if the accelerator was located in Ferrie's apartment or lab across the street. Not to put too fine a point on it but, given this post, how can post #1474 be truthful?

QUOTE (Jack White @ Apr 22 2010, 04:32 PM)

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...&pid=190422

Here is a LINEAR PARTICLE ACCELERATOR. Did David Ferrie have his in his apartment

or his laboratory across the street?

Jack

I still have two unanswered questions on the table.

Who was the OTHER Judyth Vary Baker who Ed Haslam met?

And why did Oswald forge a fake vaccine card with Dr. Alek Hidel's name on it from the

US Public Service Hospital in New Orleans?

What could he have possibly used this card for? Was it necessary to get a visa to Mexico? Did he want to establish the existence of Dr. Hidell? Can anyone think of another good reason to create such a card?

Oswald reportedly checked out this hospital as a potential place for his second daughter to be born, but that plan was thwarted when Marina wrote to Ruth Paine via Art Young and said she would go with her to Texas for the baby to be born.

This is the hospital where the partical accellerator was said to be located, the one that killed Mary Sherman, though according to EH she was moved to her apartment to make it appear she was the victim of an intruder.

Of course there is the world's largest and new particle accellerator in Switzerland that also recently made the news:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=15727

A would-be saboteur arrested today at the Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland made the bizarre claim that he was from the future. Eloi Cole, a strangely dressed young man, said that he had travelled back in time to prevent the LHC from destroying the world.

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/gadgets/0,39029552,49305387,00.htm

The LHC successfully collided particles at record force earlier this week, a milestone Mr Cole was attempting to disrupt by stopping supplies of Mountain Dew to the experiment's vending machines. He also claimed responsibility for the infamous baguette sabotage in November last year.

Mr Cole was seized by Swiss police after CERN security guards spotted him rooting around in bins. He explained that he was looking for fuel for his 'time machine power unit', a device that resembled a kitchen blender.

Police said Mr Cole, who was wearing a bow tie and rather too much tweed for his age, would not reveal his country of origin. "Countries do not exist where I am from. The discovery of the Higgs boson led to limitless power, the elimination of poverty and Kit-Kats for everyone. It is a communist chocolate hellhole and I'm here to stop it ever happening."

This isn't the first time time-travel has been blamed for mishaps at the LHC. Last year, the Japanese physicist Masao Ninomiya and Danish string-theory pioneer Holger Bech Nielsen put forward the hypothesis that the Higgs boson was so "abhorrent" that it somehow caused a ripple in time that prevented its own discovery.

Professor Brian Cox, a former CERN physicist and full-time rock'n'roll TV scientist, was sympathetic to Mr Cole. "Bless him, he sounds harmless enough. At least he didn't mention bloody black holes."

Mr Cole was taken to a secure mental health facility in Geneva but later disappeared from his cell. Police are baffled, but not that bothered.

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Does everyone feel they are entitled to post without doing any basic research on the subject of

this thread? Now Bill Kelly endorses Jack's blunder by reiterating a question about the particle

accelerator being housed at David Farrie's apartment! This is akin to Jack's naive report about

Mary having been killed in her apartment! If either of you would expend the least effort on DR.

MARY'S MONKEY, you would know (i) that the particle accelerator was at the US Public Service

Hospital, (ii) that Mary's body was found in her apartment, a setting that could not have caused

the damage she sustained, (iii) that she appears to have been killed at the hospital and had her

body moved to the apartment, and (iv) that the other "Judyth Vary Baker" was an impostor. It

is ridiculous to suggest that an agency went to the trouble to impersonate her if she were not a

genuine witness. I will ask Judyth about the Heidel ID, but it was probably to make it easier for

him to gain access. None of you is thinking this through. Jack is not even reading and now Bill is

playing the sap. Not only are we coping with those who are sincere but ignorant but also those,

like Josiah Thompson, who knows nothing about the case, endorses rubbish about it (because of

his massive ignorance), and then tries to parlay his ignorance into hits on me and Judyth! Well,

I thought I had seen ever shabby tactic in the book from him, but now he tops himself! Those

who have wondered about him need wonder no more. This thread is exposing him as a fraud.

QUOTE (Jack White @ Apr 22 2010, 05:16 PM) http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...&pid=190450

But Jim...Mary Sherman died at home in her apartment. If the LINEAR ACCELERATOR was located in the Public Health Hospital, how could it have been responsible for her death?

Have you read the reports of her death?

In post #1479, I identified the location of the linear particle accelerator:

None of it can be known with certainty, but the basic elements are very strongly supported. It would be a mistake to suppose that every aspect of her story has to be supported to the same degree as every other. Among the 17 findings that Haslam enumerates, which I have reiterated above, the most important and best supported concern Judyth's ability to conduct reseach on cancer, that she was induced to come to New Orleans by Alton Ochsner, that she met and worked with Mary Sherman, David Ferrie, and Lee Oswald, that Mary was killed by a massive source of electricity (almost certainly the linear particle accelerator at the Public Health Hospital), and that Judyth was summarily dismissed by Ochsner after she complained about the prisoner who was used in a (fatal) experiment conducted without informed consent.

In post #1495, he asks if the accelerator was located in Ferrie's apartment or lab across the

street. Not to put too fine a point on it but, given this post, how can post #1474 be truthful?

QUOTE (Jack White @ Apr 22 2010, 04:32 PM) http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...&pid=190422

Here is a LINEAR PARTICLE ACCELERATOR. Did David Ferrie have his in his apartment

or his laboratory across the street?

Jack

I still have two unanswered questions on the table.

Who was the OTHER Judyth Vary Baker who Ed Haslam met?

And why did Oswald forge a fake vaccine card with Dr. Alek Hidel's name on it from the

US Public Service Hospital in New Orleans?

Oswald reportedly checked out this hospital as a potential place for his second daughter to be born, but that plan was thwarted when Marina wrote to Ruth Paine via Art Young and said she would go with her to Texas for the baby to be born.

This is the hospital where the partical accellerator was said to be located, the one that killed Mary Sherman, though according to EH she was moved to her apartment to make it appear she was the victim of an intruder.

Of course there is the world's largest and new particle accellerator in Switzerland that also recently made the news:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=15727

A would-be saboteur arrested today at the Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland made the bizarre claim that he was from the future. Eloi Cole, a strangely dressed young man, said that he had travelled back in time to prevent the LHC from destroying the world.

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/gadgets/0,39029552,49305387,00.htm

The LHC successfully collided particles at record force earlier this week, a milestone Mr Cole was attempting to disrupt by stopping supplies of Mountain Dew to the experiment's vending machines. He also claimed responsibility for the infamous baguette sabotage in November last year.

Mr Cole was seized by Swiss police after CERN security guards spotted him rooting around in bins. He explained that he was looking for fuel for his 'time machine power unit', a device that resembled a kitchen blender.

Police said Mr Cole, who was wearing a bow tie and rather too much tweed for his age, would not reveal his country of origin. "Countries do not exist where I am from. The discovery of the Higgs boson led to limitless power, the elimination of poverty and Kit-Kats for everyone. It is a communist chocolate hellhole and I'm here to stop it ever happening."

This isn't the first time time-travel has been blamed for mishaps at the LHC. Last year, the Japanese physicist Masao Ninomiya and Danish string-theory pioneer Holger Bech Nielsen put forward the hypothesis that the Higgs boson was so "abhorrent" that it somehow caused a ripple in time that prevented its own discovery.

Professor Brian Cox, a former CERN physicist and full-time rock'n'roll TV scientist, was sympathetic to Mr Cole. "Bless him, he sounds harmless enough. At least he didn't mention bloody black holes."

Mr Cole was taken to a secure mental health facility in Geneva but later disappeared from his cell. Police are baffled, but not that bothered.

Edited April 26, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Viklund may be the greatest mediocrity to post on this thread. Not only did Judyth have friends who could vouch for her status but the fact that she remained in Sweden long after she would have been deported if his reports were true demonstrated that they were false on their face. There has been no merit to anything he has posted. After having to ask Monk if I were "a prominent researcher", he has tried to save face by saying he had seen me on YouTube! It was a pathetic exercise and extremely revealing about his knowledge of the state of research on JFK and those who have made contributions. Even now, I doubt that he could name the four national conferences I chaired or co-chaired, the titles of the three books I have edited, the URLs of any of the web sites where I discuss JFK, the name of the 4 1/2 hour documentary I produced, or any of the articles I have published on this topic. The guy is a newbie but wants to be taken seriously. I can't imagine why. He doesn't know what he's talking about.

You don't seem to grasp that a nobody can't become a somebody by making posts that confirm they are a nobody.

It didn't take me long to size you up, Glenn. And precisely to whom am I supposed to be "sucking up"?

David Lifton? Doug Weldon? Jack White? Josiah Thompson? John Simkin? You are out of your league.

In between his ramblings, rantings and insults to most everyone in this thread, Fetzer is repeating this question:

" If Judyth Vary Baker really were a flake, why in the world would there be so much time and effort devoted to discrediting her?"

Mr Fetzer, are you pretending to not understand that? Coming from a professor, this is a bizarre question, no matter how many times you repeat it.

But let me try to answer it for you.

The reason is that a fake has nothing to do with the JFK assassination. It is perfectly understandable that so many people are protesting this womans totally unwarranted, false and utterly unsubstanciated claims of having anything to do with the JFK assassination. In fact, based on previous actions, this womans credibility is very close to zero. Therefore, nothing she says, nothing she does, nothing she claims, can be accepted without solid evidence. Nothing whatsoever. That's the position she's put herself in, after being caught lying on hundreds of occasions during the past decade.

Without having asked anyone else, it is an entirely reasonable assumption that this is the only reason for any interest in what you are promoting here, of you, or of this woman herself.

You have been rambling on for weeks about evidence. Kevin Greenlee asks you to provide those on only one of your points, of your so called evidence.

You fail to provide anything viable. You fail miserably. Your are doing exactly what Ms Baker has been doing over the past decade. Lots of claims, with nothing to back them up. Instead you provide Kevin with your standard rants. Useless BS that insults Kevin and everyone else here.

Mr Fetzer, your performance is way below par, way below.

Glenn,

Here is what I believe has happened on this thread:

Jim started this thread to discuss Judyth and her story as his topic.

He stated his hypothesis that Judyth's story is true.

He provided as evidence a number of sources, including Dr. Mary's Monkey, photographs and records regarding Judyth, interviews with Judyth, etc.

Others have responded, sometimes to these sources and sometimes with other information.

Jim has asked the critics to read these sources before making a judgment.

Some have done so, some have not.

It is reasonable for him to be frustrated with those who choose not to read the information that he bases his hypothesis on.

It is reasonable for him to be frustrated with those who go off the subject.

It should also be pointed out that he took the time to read Harvey and Lee to better understand some of the critics.

If you believe you have done the "homework" called for in order to judge Judyth's story, great!

If you don't think Jim has provided enough information for you after all these posts, or the right information, I may disagree, but I will simply leave it at that.

Dean

Dean,

I respectfully disagree to your basic assumptions, on top of your list. Mr Fetzer gave the impression he was open minded. But it did not take many postings before it became clear that this was not the case. Early on, I provided the facts around her asylum issue. What did Mr Fetzer do? A few hours after I was registred, I was declared "a highly dubious source". That's not how people (re)act when looking for an open minded discussion, for answers. That is how they behave when they are paranoid.

Furthermore, I asked him then - to which I have still to receive an answer: If it turns out JVB has been lying about the asylum issue, would you then agree this have implications on her credibility? Not only has he never agreed about the lying - he has yet to answer whether it affects her credibility.

Dean, it's not reasonable by Fetzer to disregard stuff like this. Especially when he, as is the case here, is promoting her story as true - the real deal. He constantly disregards anything that is not in favor of JVB and sucks up to anyone positive. So whether coming from me, from Barb, from Jack, from Kevin or anyone else on the long list of critical people, we are all constantly and rudely dismissed.

As if this was not enough, instead of recognizing the warranted questions, he goes on to claim that "this" and "that" is now proven. Just like that.

I agree with you on the frustration part though. It is very understandable that Mr Fetzer is frustrated when such a huge number of people are disagreeing to his conclusions, even among his friends. Of course that's frustrating. And of course this frustration derives from the fact that he, or she for that matter, cannot properly respond to questions asked. I would be frustrated too. But unlike Fetzer, I'd take a long, hard look at my position. That's not for Mr Fetzer, however. He chooses the easy way, the ramblings, the rants and the insults, instead. Barb has again and again provided facts to no avail. Mr Fetzer's response is the same, he's treating her as all the rest of us.

And for some incomprehensible reason, he assumed he could get away with it, for free. Which was another disastrous judgment on his part, as this thread has shown.

So Dean, thanks for your very polite tone, but as you can see, I strongly disagree to most of your assumptions.

Nevertheless, I wish you to have a nice weekend!

Glenn

Mr Fetzer,

Read again.

Those you mention, DISAGREES with you on this matter.

How about, Kinaski, McElwain Brown to start with?

Sized me up? Mr Fetzer, you are acting like a clown - a little boy who didn't get his mom's good nite kiss.

You can't even size up your own disastrous failure in this thread. But that's fine - everyone else can.

The only feelings I have for you - is pity.

Sad to say.

Ramble on, Jimmy! How nice to see the real "twit-maker" in action! Come on, you can do better than that?

Edited April 25, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Kevin Greenlee]

Does everyone feel they are entitled to post without doing any basic research on the subject of

this thread?

i think you are the only one under that impression, sir. your inability to produce any evidence whatsoever to back up one of judyth's "best supported" claims makes it clear to one and all that you did no meaningful research on this topic before posting about it. your ignorance, then, is a well established fact. should we now turn to your integrity?

you made the claim earlier that the esteemed josiah thompson is- essentially- my ghostwriter. do you have any evidence for that? if so, please produce it. if not, will you have the decency to retract this latest in your long line of humiliating errors?

[Kevin Greenlee]

Viklund may be the greatest mediocrity to post on this thread. Not only did Judyth have friends who could vouch for her status but the fact that she remained in Sweden long after she would have been deported if his reports were true demonstrated that they were false on their face. There has been no merit to anything he has posted. After having to ask Monk if I were "a prominent researcher", he has tried to save face by saying he had seen me on YouTube!. It was a pathetic exercise and extremely revealing about his knowledge of the state of research on JFK and those who have made contributions. Even now, I doubt that he could name the four national conferences I chaired or co-chaired, the titles of the three books I have edited, the URLs of any of the web sites where I discuss JFK, the name of the 4 1/2 hour documentary I produced, or any of the articles I have published on this topic. The guy is a newbie but wants to be taken seriously. I can't imagine why. He doesn't know what he's talking about.

Glenn can, of course, defend himself.

Let me, though, make a quick observation. Amongst serious scholars of the JFK case, knowledge of Mr. Fetzer and his conferences should be scored like a golf game. in other words, the less you know about him the better the researcher you are about the assassination.

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Kathy,

Have you ever done any research? Did you think I had to read HARVEY & LEE to find the pages that concern "Lee"'s alleged "missing tooth"? Are you aware the book is organized in chronological fashion, that I had asked Jack to tell me the alleged differences between them, and that, when I encountered this "missing tooth" business, I tracked it down?

I mean, really! I have published more than 150 articles and reviews, my 29th book will appear next month, and I have received many honors and awards for my research. Yet you think JUDYTH would have to point out passages for me? I dare say, you have utterly no idea what you are talking about. Judyth does not even have a copy of HARVEY & LEE!

Did it even cross your mind that, after my reply to Dixie Dea in post #1575, which repeated points I had made in earlier posts, Judyth responded separately in post #1598? Would it have made sense for us to make separate posts if we were in synch about this? You appear to be a dear, but one more example of someone incapable of thinking things through.

Jim

It should also be pointed out that he took the time to read Harvey and Lee to better understand some of the critics.

Dean

How much of that book has he read? I bet only passages that Judyth points out to him. Harvey and Lee is a long, long book. You have to take time and digest the material. If he reads it in the future, then wonderful. I don't expect anyone to read that book overnight and wouldn't trust anyone who said they did.

Kathy C

[Barb Junkkarinen]

Jim,

Glad to see you posting today! I have a question for both you and Judyth.

Since you have gotten to know Judyth so well with all your extensive contact and reading to get up to speed on her claims and story, you must know about the book The Pocket Aristotle that has some underlining and marginal notes in it ... that Judyth claims Oswald wrote. Judyth has told you about that, yes? Judyth?

For years, the old team Judyth was asked why this writing has never been put before a court qualified qualified professional documents examiner who could verify or deny that the writing is, in fact, Oswald'. Other than the cost of an examiner, which they had never checked into, no real reason was ever given as to why this critical piece of evidence Judyth has was never examined. One would think this item would have been given top priority!

With you on board now, can we depend on you to work with Judyth to get the appropriate examination done and the findings posted? If this writing in her book is verified to be that of Oswald, it will go a long way in supporting some of her claims!

Two pages are posted on Marsh's website. Only one of the links seems to be working - the other keeps giving an error message. Here is the one that works:

Judyth, will you send Jim copies of both pages for him to post. And will you work with him to get this long overdue professional exam done of your book?

Thanks,

Barb :-)

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

JUDYTH RESPONDS TO JACK ABOUT ALL OF THIS "MONKEY BUSINESS"

JACK WHITE WROTE:

I continue to be puzzled by this. Here is an exact quote of Haslam's question and JVB's reply:

“My question is about your time in New Orleans in the summer of 1963… Do I understand that you are saying that you were told that the extracts that you prepared at David Ferrie's apartment and delivered to Mary Sherman's apartment were being subjected to radiation and then recycled into more mice? Do I have this right?”

JUDYTH'S REPLY:

==EXACTLY...ALSO, INTO MONKEYS. MANY WERE KILLED, BUT THEY ORDERED THOUSANDS OF POUNDS OF NEW MONKEYS…==

So in JVB's own words, she claims that IN FERRIE'S APARTMENT WERE MICE THAT WERE BEING RADIATED

and ALSO "THOUSANDS OF POUNDS OF NEW MONKEYS" AFTER MANY WERE KILLED.

When I asked a question about the "thousands of new monkeys",

==Thousands of POUNDS of new monkeys--and if he had ever asked, we went from MARMOSETS to GREEN MONKEYS. JACK PLEASE READ THE TEXT MORE CAREFULLY, YOU ARE MISQUOTING. ==

their care and feeding, etc., Judith became defensive

==NOT DEFENSIVE. MR. WHITE SAID "THOUSANDS OF MONKEYS" WHEN I SAID "THOUSANDS OF POUNDS OF NEW MONKEYS WERE SHIPPED IN TO REPLACE WHAT WERE KILLED". THE FIRST STEP WAS MARMOSETS. WE GOT THEM TO DISSECT. THE NEXT STEP WERE THE GREEN MONKEYS. WE ONLY GOT THE TUMORS TO WORK WITH, PROCESSED THEM, SET UP TISSUE CULTURES, PREPARED THEM FOR RADIATION. THEY WERE BROUGHT TO MARY SHERMAN WHO INSPECTED THEM AND TOOK THE BEST CANDIDATES TO THE USPHSH FOR RADIATION.==

and said (via Jim) that the thousands of monkeys

==YOU ARE MISREADING. WE USED SEVERAL HUNDRED, NOT THOUSANDS, OF MARMOSET INFANTS...==

were not full sized rhesus monkeys, but "thumb-

==WE THEN MOVED ON AND TRANSFERRED THE CANCERS TO AFRICAN GREEN MONKEYS==

sized" marmoset monkeys, small as mice. When I researched marmoset monkeys and found that in 1963

marmosets were not yet being used in medical research,

==MR. WHITE DID NOT DO A GOOD RESEARCH JOB, ALL HE HAD TO DO WAS ASK AND I WOULD HAVE SUPPLIED HIM REFERENCES.==

everyone has become silent. I look forward to the answer to the questions about this monkey business.

==READING CAREFULLY IS EXPECTED OF A RESEARCHER. DOING ADEQUATE RESEARCH IN A SUBJECT OR ASKING INFORMED QUESTIONS INSTEAD OF ALWAYS TRYING TO DIG MY GRAVE WOULD BE APPRECIATED.==

JVB

Jack,

You appear to be confounding the mormosets that were kept in cages with the mice

(because they were very small) and the monkeys that were stored at the primate

center. Have you read DR. MARY'S MONKEY? When you do, I think you will begin

to realize how many of your posts were misdirected just because of your ignorance.

Jim

Remarkably, there is a timeline of newspaper mentions of MARMOSETS for medical

research available on the internet.

In the 1930s, there are two mentions that it might be possible. In the 1940s there was

one mention that it might be possible.

In the 1950s, there were no mentions.

In the 1960s, there were some mentions that the government was considering replacing

rhesus monkeys with marmosets. I could find NO mention that by 1963 marmosets were

widely used in medical research.

It appears that JVB's claim of using marmosets may be premature.

Jack

I continue to be puzzled by this. Here is an exact quote of Haslam's question and JVB's reply:

“My question is about your time in New Orleans in the summer of 1963… Do I understand that you are saying that you were told that the extracts that you prepared at David Ferrie's apartment and delivered to Mary Sherman's apartment were being subjected to radiation and then recycled into more mice? Do I have this right?”

Judyth’s response:

==EXACTLY...ALSO, INTO MONKEYS. MANY WERE KILLED, BUT THEY ORDERED THOUSANDS OF POUNDS OF NEW MONKEYS…==

So in JVB's own words, she claims that IN FERRIE'S APARTMENT WERE MICE THAT WERE BEING RADIATED

and ALSO "THOUSANDS OF POUNDS OF NEW MONKEYS" AFTER MANY WERE KILLED.

When I asked a question about the "thousands of new monkeys", their care and feeding, etc., Judith became

defensive and said (via Jim) that the thousands of monkeys were not full sized rhesus monkeys, but "thumb-

sized" marmoset monkeys, small as mice. When I researched marmoset monkeys and found that in 1963

marmosets were not yet being used in medical research, everyone has become silent. I look forward to

the answer to the questions about this monkey business.

Jack

Edited April 26, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Intriguing. This is one of your more constructive posts. I will ask Judyth about it when I have the chance. She is traveling. And if something like this were to substantiate her claims, then you, Barb, will admit she IS "the real deal"?

Jim,

Glad to see you posting today! I have a question for both you and Judyth.

Since you have gotten to know Judyth so well with all your extensive contact and reading to get up to speed on her claims and story, you must know about the book The Pocket Aristotle that has some underlining and marginal notes in it ... that Judyth claims Oswald wrote. Judyth has told you about that, yes? Judyth?

For years, the old team Judyth was asked why this writing has never been put before a court qualified qualified professional documents examiner who could verify or deny that the writing is, in fact, Oswald'. Other than the cost of an examiner, which they had never checked into, no real reason was ever given as to why this critical piece of evidence Judyth has was never examined. One would think this item would have been given top priority!

With you on board now, can we depend on you to work with Judyth to get the appropriate examination done and the findings posted? If this writing in her book is verified to be that of Oswald, it will go a long way in supporting some of her claims!

Two pages are posted on Marsh's website. Only one of the links seems to be working - the other keeps giving an error message. Here is the one that works:

Judyth, will you send Jim copies of both pages for him to post. And will you work with him to get this long overdue professional exam done of your book?

Thanks,

Barb :-)

Edited April 26, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Greg Burnham]

I think that's a great idea, Barb!

[edited for excessive sarcasm by me]

Edited April 25, 2010 by Greg Burnham

[Glenn Viklund]

Jimmy,

It's quite nice to be mediocre. Nice to be a "nobody". I really enjoy being on top of expectations as a nobody; you, on the other hand, is a "somebody" who continuosly fail to meet expectations. So, let me ask you again, are you sure you want to enter the ring, about her asylum issues? A good advice would be to never enter the ring; you are bound to lose. Period.

Edited April 25, 2010 by Glenn Viklund

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

PARTING REFLECTIONS FROM JIM AND JUDYTH VARY BAKER ABOUT THIS THREAD

NOTE: Since Tracy posted "THE END", which was my favorite of the entire thread, there has been a noticeable

increase in rubbish posts from the likes of Glenn Viklund, Kevin Greenlee, and Josiah Thompson, all of whom, it

would appear, want to get in their "last licks". Greenlee appears to be a Josiah stooge, posting smears that are

vintage "Tink" rubbish. He appears to have no more idea of my research on JFK than Viklund. Jack continues

to post sincere but ignorant posts, where Bill Kelly, of all people, wades right in to endorse them, where if they

had read DR. MARY'S MONKEY, which I have recommended time and again, they would not make themselves

look quite so silly. A nice illustration, no doubt, is inferring from my observation that I did not know Judyth's

story to the conclusion that I knew nothing about her. Everyone knows about Judyth. My point was that I did

not know her story well enough to be making up her posts! I was responding to the suggestion that I had been

writing them for her. Yet there have been some valuable contributions, including this post by Dean Hartwell, who

needs make no apology for how much of HARVEY & LEE I have read. If I can find blunders about the "index" of

the supplementary volumes and the date of the founding of the Warren Commission in the "Introduction", which

is then compounded by the apparent absurdity of Lillian Murret ("Harvey"'s aunt) paying for "Lee"'s dental bill,

what do you think will happen when Judyth has the copy I have sent to her? This should be most interesting. I

am grateful to Dean and to Monk and to Pamela and several others who have made constructive contributions

to this thread. I especially appreciate Dean and Monk's attempts to explain what has been going on and why I

have found it frustrating to deal with so many critics who haven't read DR. MARY'S MONKEY, don't read posts,

and reveal their ignorance with every post, a group, I am sorry to say, that includes my dear friend Jack White.

I cannot imagine anyone more appropriate to bring this to a conclusion, even though it represents something

more akin to an "intermission", since her book, ME & LEE, is about to appear. Then we can do this over again!

JUDYTH COMMENTS ON THE THREAD

IF PEOPLE ARE DISRESPECTFUL AND THUS CARELESS WITH THIS COMPLEX HISTORY, SUCH AS JACK WHITE SAYING WE USED THOUSANDS OF MONKEYS, SAYING THAT WE USED RADIATION IN FERRIE'S APARTMENT, AFTER IT WAS EXPLAINED CONCERNING THE LOCATION OF THE LINEAR ACCELERATOR; OR LIFTON SAYING I SAID 'CANCUN' OR THAT I SAID I KNEW LEE OSWALD'S HANDLER'S REAL NAME FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME, OR RIGHT FROM THE VERY START; OR JOHN MCADAMS SAYING MARY SHERMAN WAS NOT A CANCER RESEARCHER--IF READERS AND RESEARCHERS ARE THIS CARELESS WITH MY TESTIMONY, THEN THEY OF COURSE CAN CAN COME UP WITH ENDLESS OBJECTIONS.

AFTER A DECADE, THE PETTINESS OF THE ARGUMENTS THROWN AGAINS ME ARE ALL FOCUSED ON ONE THING: CHARACTER ASSASSINATION. FIND SOMETHING--ANYTHING--TO DISCREDIT HER. FORGET THE FACT THAT SHE IS HUMAN AND THAT SHE ALSO GETS MISQUOTED--AS HAS BEEN SHOWN ON THIS THREAD--FROM THE GET-GO (THE ACCUSATION THAT I HATED MY FAMILY NAME OF 'AVARY' AND CHANGED IT TO 'VARY', IS A NICE ILLUSTRATION: NO CITATION, OF COURSE, TOTAL FICTION--WHERE DID IT COME FROM? JACK WHITE DIDN'T TELL US, BUT SWARMS OF RUBBISH LIKE THAT IS FLYING BETWEEN COMPUTERS. SO MUCH JUNK ABOUT ME IS GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENES, YET I AM THE ONE WHO IS DECLARED RESPONSIBLE FOR DIVIDING THE RESEARCH COMMUNITY? WHY?

FORTUNATELY, A FEW RESPONSIBLE, CAREFUL RESEARCHERS WITH INTEGRITY DECIDED TO FIND OUT PERSONALLY AND NOT RELY ON HEARSAY. A GOOD EXAMPLE IS WHEN I PRODUCED INFORMATION ABOUT LEE OSWALD'S READING LIST. DR. FETZER NOTED HAT IT WAS A GOOD 'WISH LIST' AND THAT IT RAISED THE POSSIBILITY THAT PERHAPS I WAS EMBELLISHING...UNLIKE DOUG WELDON, HE INQUIRED. HE DID NOT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS. HE ASKED ME.

HE GOT HIS ANSWER: I PROVIDED THE FBI LIST SHOWING THE BOOKS I HAD CITED WERE ON THAT LIST. I HAD EMBELLISHED NOTHING. HOWEVER, I HAD ADDITIONAL INFORMATION BECAUSE I ADDED COMPLETE TITLES AND SHOWED THAT THESE BOOKS WERE HEAVY READING, PROVIG OSWALD WAS NOT ONLY EDUCATED BUT THAT HE AND I WERE INTELLECTUALLY COMPATIBLE. [NOTE: THE BOOKS ON JUDYTH'S LIST WERE ACTUALLY INCLUDED ON AN FBI LIST THAT BECAME A WARREN COMMISSION DOCUMENT. SEE POST #1569.]

THOSE RESEARCHERS WHO HAVE ASKED QUESTIONS OF ME AND, WHEN THEY DID NOT UNDERSTAND, ASKED FOR ELUCIDATION, HAVE ALWAYS BEEN SATISFIED. THOSE REPUTABLE RESEARCHERS WHO HAVE SPENT A GREAT DEAL OF TIME RESEARCHING MY TESTIMONY, IN CONTACT WITH ME PERSONALLY, HAVE NOT BEEN DISAPPOINTED. IN CONTRAST, MANY OTHERS HAVE BEEN BRINGING FORTH OBJECTIONS BASED ON TRYING TO PROVE I AM A BAD PERSON. THE PATTERN HAS BEEN THE SAME PATERN FOR A DECADE, NOW.

NOBODY IS PERFECT. BUT WHEN MY SATEMENTS ARE TWISTED RIGHT BEFORE MY EYES -- SUCH AS 'THOUSANDS OF POUNDS OF MONKEYS' GETTING MORPHED WITHIN AN HOUR INTO 'THOUSANDS OF MONKEYS' -- ONE MUST REBUKE THOSE WHO ARE SO CARELESS AND THOUGHTLESS. MANY OF YOU HAVE BEEN UNKIND AND UNFAIR AND CARELESS WITH A WITNESS. LOVE IS STRONGER THAN HATE. MY LOVE FOR THE INNOCENT OSWALD WILL PROVIDE ME THE STRENGTH I NEED TO WITHSTAND AGAINST ALL THE WITCH-HUNTS CONDUCTED AGAINST ME.

THE PERSECUTION AND SUFFERING THAT I AND MY FAMILY ENDURED WHEN I TRIED SEVERAL TIMES TO LIVE AGAIN IN THE UNITED STATES, AFTER BEING DRIVEN OUT BY THREATS AND ACTUAL INCIDENTS THAT HOSPITALIZED ME, CAN BE JUXTAPOSED AGAINST WHAT I HAVE ENDURED IN THE PRINTED WORD HERE. THE ATTACKS LODGED HERE ARE A SMALL SAMPLE OF WHAT I HAVE HAD TO ENDURE. I AM GRATEFUL FOR THOSE WHO HAVE TRIED TO TREAT ME FAIRLY. I WOULD LIVE IN MY COUNTRY IF I COULD. BUT CIRCUMSTANCES HAVE MADE THAT IMPOSSIBLE.

SOMEONE RECENTLY SENT ME A CONTAINER OF SOIL FROM THE USA.

IT IS PROBABLY MY MOST TREASURED POSSESSION

JVB

In between his ramblings, rantings and insults to most everyone in this thread, Fetzer is repeating this question:

" If Judyth Vary Baker really were a flake, why in the world would there be so much time and effort devoted to discrediting her?"

Mr Fetzer, are you pretending to not understand that? Coming from a professor, this is a bizarre question, no matter how many times you repeat it.

But let me try to answer it for you.

The reason is that a fake has nothing to do with the JFK assassination. It is perfectly understandable that so many people are protesting this womans totally unwarranted, false and utterly unsubstanciated claims of having anything to do with the JFK assassination. In fact, based on previous actions, this womans credibility is very close to zero. Therefore, nothing she says, nothing she does, nothing she claims, can be accepted without solid evidence. Nothing whatsoever. That's the position she's put herself in, after being caught lying on hundreds of occasions during the past decade.

Without having asked anyone else, it is an entirely reasonable assumption that this is the only reason for any interest in what you are promoting here, of you, or of this woman herself.

You have been rambling on for weeks about evidence. Kevin Greenlee asks you to provide those on only one of your points, of your so called evidence.

You fail to provide anything viable. You fail miserably. Your are doing exactly what Ms Baker has been doing over the past decade. Lots of claims, with nothing to back them up. Instead you provide Kevin with your standard rants. Useless BS that insults Kevin and everyone else here.

Mr Fetzer, your performance is way below par, way below.

Glenn,

Here is what I believe has happened on this thread:

Jim started this thread to discuss Judyth and her story as his topic.

He stated his hypothesis that Judyth's story is true.

He provided as evidence a number of sources, including Dr. Mary's Monkey, photographs and records regarding Judyth, interviews with Judyth, etc.

Others have responded, sometimes to these sources and sometimes with other information.

Jim has asked the critics to read these sources before making a judgment.

Some have done so, some have not.

It is reasonable for him to be frustrated with those who choose not to read the information that he bases his hypothesis on.

It is reasonable for him to be frustrated with those who go off the subject.

It should also be pointed out that he took the time to read PARTS OF (SEE ABOVE) Harvey and Lee to better understand some of the critics.

If you believe you have done the "homework" called for in order to judge Judyth's story, great!

If you don't think Jim has provided enough information for you after all these posts, or the right information, I may disagree, but I will simply leave it at that.

Dean

Edited April 26, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Glenn Viklund]

PARTING REFLECTIONS FROM JIM AND JUDYTH VARY BAKER ABOUT THIS THREAD

NOTE: Since Tracy posted "THE END", which was my favorite of the entire thread, there has been a noticeable

increase in rubbish posts from the likes of Glenn Viklund, Kevin Greenlee, and Josiah Thompson, all of whom, it

would appear, want to get in their "last licks". Greenlee appears to be a Josiah stooge, posting smears that are

vintage "Tink" rubbish. He appears to have no more idea of my research on JFK than Viklund. Jack continues

to post sincere but ignorant posts, where Bill Kelly, of all people, wades right in to endorse them, where if they

had read DR. MARY'S MONKEY, which I have recommended time and again, they would not make themselves

look quite so silly. A nice illustration, no doubt, is inferring from my observation that I did not know Judyth's

story to the conclusion that I knew nothing about her. Everyone knows about Judyth. My point was that I did

not know her story well enough to be making up her posts! I was responding to the suggestion that I had been

writing them for her. Yet there have been some valuable contributions, including this post by Dean Hartwell, who

needs make no apology for how much of HARVEY & LEE I have read. If I can find blunders about the "index" of

the supplementary volumes and the date of the founding of the Warren Commission in the "Introduction", which

is then compounded by the apparent absurdity of Lillian Murret ("Harvey"'s aunt) paying for "Lee"'s dental bill,

what do you think will happen when Judyth has the copy I have sent to her? This should be most interesting. I

am grateful to Dean and to Monk and to Pamela and several others who have made constructive contributions

to this thread. I especially appreciate Dean and Monk's attempts to explain what has been going on and why I

have found it frustrating to deal with so many critics who haven't read DR. MARY'S MONKEY, don't read posts,

and reveal their ignorance with every post, a group, I am sorry to say, that includes my dear friend Jack White.

I cannot imagine anyone more appropriate to bring this to a conclusion, even though it represents something

more akin to an "intermission", since her book, ME & LEE, is about to appear. Then we can do this over again!

JUDYTH COMMENTS ON THE THREAD

IF PEOPLE ARE DISRESPECTFUL AND THUS CARELESS WITH THIS COMPLEX HISTORY, SUCH AS JACK WHITE SAYING WE USED THOUSANDS OF MONKEYS, SAYING THAT WE USED RADIATION IN FERRIE'S APARTMENT, AFTER IT WAS EXPLAINED CONCERNING THE LOCATION OF THE LINEAR ACCELERATOR; OR LIFTON SAYING I SAID 'CANCUN' OR THAT I SAID I KNEW LEE OSWALD'S HANDLER'S REAL NAME FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME, OR RIGHT FROM THE VERY START; OR JOHN MCADAMS SAYING MARY SHERMAN WAS NOT A CANCER RESEARCHER--IF READERS AND RESEARCHERS ARE THIS CARELESS WITH MY TESTIMONY, THEN THEY OF COURSE CAN CAN COME UP WITH ENDLESS OBJECTIONS.

AFTER A DECADE, THE PETTINESS OF THE ARGUMENTS THROWN AGAINS ME ARE ALL FOCUSED ON ONE THING: CHARACTER ASSASSINATION. FIND SOMETHING--ANYTHING--TO DISCREDIT HER. FORGET THE FACT THAT SHE IS HUMAN AND THAT SHE ALSO GETS MISQUOTED--AS HAS BEEN SHOWN ON THIS THREAD--FROM THE GET-GO (THE ACCUSATION THAT I HATED MY FAMILY NAME OF 'AVARY' AND CHANGED IT TO 'VARY', IS A NICE ILLUSTRATION: NO CITATION, OF COURSE, TOTAL FICTION--WHERE DID IT COME FROM? JACK WHITE DIDN'T TELL US, BUT SWARMS OF RUBBISH LIKE THAT IS FLYING BETWEEN COMPUTERS. SO MUCH JUNK ABOUT ME IS GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENES, YET I AM THE ONE WHO IS DECLARED RESPONSIBLE FOR DIVIDING THE RESEARCH COMMUNITY? WHY?

FORTUNATELY, A FEW RESPONSIBLE, CAREFUL RESEARCHERS WITH INTEGRITY DECIDED TO FIND OUT PERSONALLY AND NOT RELY ON HEARSAY. A GOOD EXAMPLE IS WHEN I PRODUCED INFORMATION ABOUT LEE OSWALD'S READING LIST. DR. FETZER NOTED HAT IT WAS A GOOD 'WISH LIST' AND THAT IT RAISED THE POSSIBILITY THAT PERHAPS I WAS EMBELLISHING...UNLIKE DOUG WELDON, HE INQUIRED. HE DID NOT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS. HE ASKED ME.

HE GOT HIS ANSWER: I PROVIDED THE FBI LIST SHOWING THE BOOKS I HAD CITED WERE ON THAT LIST. I HAD EMBELLISHED NOTHING. HOWEVER, I HAD ADDITIONAL INFORMATION BECAUSE I ADDED COMPLETE TITLES AND SHOWED THAT THESE BOOKS WERE HEAVY READING, PROVIG OSWALD WAS NOT ONLY EDUCATED BUT THAT HE AND I WERE INTELLECTUALLY COMPATIBLE. [NOTE: THE BOOKS ON JUDYTH'S LIST WERE ACTUALLY INCLUDED ON AN FBI LIST THAT BECAME A WARREN COMMISSION DOCUMENT. SEE POST #1569.]

THOSE RESEARCHERS WHO HAVE ASKED QUESTIONS OF ME AND, WHEN THEY DID NOT UNDERSTAND, ASKED FOR ELUCIDATION, HAVE ALWAYS BEEN SATISFIED. THOSE REPUTABLE RESEARCHERS WHO HAVE SPENT A GREAT DEAL OF TIME RESEARCHING MY TESTIMONY, IN CONTACT WITH ME PERSONALLY, HAVE NOT BEEN DISAPPOINTED. IN CONTRAST, MANY OTHERS HAVE BEEN BRINGING FORTH OBJECTIONS BASED ON TRYING TO PROVE I AM A BAD PERSON. THE PATTERN HAS BEEN THE SAME PATERN FOR A DECADE, NOW.

NOBODY IS PERFECT. BUT WHEN MY SATEMENTS ARE TWISTED RIGHT BEFORE MY EYES -- SUCH AS 'THOUSANDS OF POUNDS OF MONKEYS' GETTING MORPHED WITHIN AN HOUR INTO 'THOUSANDS OF MONKEYS' -- ONE MUST REBUKE THOSE WHO ARE SO CARELESS AND THOUGHTLESS. MANY OF YOU HAVE BEEN UNKIND AND UNFAIR AND CARELESS WITH A WITNESS. LOVE IS STRONGER THAN HATE. MY LOVE FOR THE INNOCENT OSWALD WILL PROVIDE ME THE STRENGTH I NEED TO WITHSTAND AGAINST ALL THE WITCH-HUNTS CONDUCTED AGAINST ME.

THE PERSECUTION AND SUFFERING THAT I AND MY FAMILY ENDURED WHEN I TRIED SEVERAL TIMES TO LIVE AGAIN IN THE UNITED STATES, AFTER BEING DRIVEN OUT BY THREATS AND ACTUAL INCIDENTS THAT HOSPITALIZED ME, CAN BE JUXTAPOSED AGAINST WHAT I HAVE ENDURED IN THE PRINTED WORD HERE. THE ATTACKS LODGED HERE ARE A SMALL SAMPLE OF WHAT I HAVE HAD TO ENDURE. I AM GRATEFUL FOR THOSE WHO HAVE TRIED TO TREAT ME FAIRLY. I WOULD LIVE IN MY COUNTRY IF I COULD. BUT CIRCUMSTANCES HAVE MADE THAT IMPOSSIBLE.

SOMEONE RECENTLY SENT ME A CONTAINER OF SOIL FROM THE USA.

IT IS PROBABLY MY MOST TREASURED POSSESSION

JVB

In between his ramblings, rantings and insults to most everyone in this thread, Fetzer is repeating this question:

" If Judyth Vary Baker really were a flake, why in the world would there be so much time and effort devoted to discrediting her?"

Mr Fetzer, are you pretending to not understand that? Coming from a professor, this is a bizarre question, no matter how many times you repeat it.

But let me try to answer it for you.

The reason is that a fake has nothing to do with the JFK assassination. It is perfectly understandable that so many people are protesting this womans totally unwarranted, false and utterly unsubstanciated claims of having anything to do with the JFK assassination. In fact, based on previous actions, this womans credibility is very close to zero. Therefore, nothing she says, nothing she does, nothing she claims, can be accepted without solid evidence. Nothing whatsoever. That's the position she's put herself in, after being caught lying on hundreds of occasions during the past decade.

Without having asked anyone else, it is an entirely reasonable assumption that this is the only reason for any interest in what you are promoting here, of you, or of this woman herself.

You have been rambling on for weeks about evidence. Kevin Greenlee asks you to provide those on only one of your points, of your so called evidence.

You fail to provide anything viable. You fail miserably. Your are doing exactly what Ms Baker has been doing over the past decade. Lots of claims, with nothing to back them up. Instead you provide Kevin with your standard rants. Useless BS that insults Kevin and everyone else here.

Mr Fetzer, your performance is way below par, way below.

Glenn,

Here is what I believe has happened on this thread:

Jim started this thread to discuss Judyth and her story as his topic.

He stated his hypothesis that Judyth's story is true.

He provided as evidence a number of sources, including Dr. Mary's Monkey, photographs and records regarding Judyth, interviews with Judyth, etc.

Others have responded, sometimes to these sources and sometimes with other information.

Jim has asked the critics to read these sources before making a judgment.

Some have done so, some have not.

It is reasonable for him to be frustrated with those who choose not to read the information that he bases his hypothesis on.

It is reasonable for him to be frustrated with those who go off the subject.

It should also be pointed out that he took the time to read PARTS OF (SEE ABOVE) Harvey and Lee to better understand some of the critics.

If you believe you have done the "homework" called for in order to judge Judyth's story, great!

If you don't think Jim has provided enough information for you after all these posts, or the right information, I may disagree, but I will simply leave it at that.

Dean

It appears, appears, appears and then it appears. And on top of all this, it is proven! You are a clown, Mr Fetzer, the one story you wished to support, you've devastated.

Hard lesson, no doubt.

[Glenn Viklund]

What about this bold stuff? It couldn't be that the professor is screaming in desperation, all the time? Big mouth, small ears? No? Please explain this constant shouting..

EDIT: A couple of weeks ago I was deemed "government agent", strongly supported by Jimmy. He changes his mind quickly, no doubt.

Edited April 25, 2010 by Glenn Viklund