Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

[Kathleen Collins]

Deleted as a misunderstanding. I thought Fetzer was denouncing Evan Burton and I was wrong. This assumption came about because Fetzer is going through each member one by one and I thought he was doing this to Evan.

Kathy C

Edited April 26, 2010 by Kathleen Collins

[Stephen Roy]

You appear to be consistent in your methodology. In an earlier post, #1499, I called you for dissembling about this very point. There it was your position, "You mention the possibility of a medical lab in an apartment across the street. In this discussion, I am considering only Mr. Haslam's claim that Ferrie had such a lab in his apartment." I pointed this out again in post #1709. Why don't you just say, "I am only going to talk about claims where I can convey the impression that Ed Haslam was wrong"? Your chicanery is blatant and violates the most elementary standards of research and scholarship. You were, after all, making this claim in a post in 2010, even though you knew he had a new book out. You obviously feigned that it did not even exist because it's contents would have exposed the shameful deception involved in your attempt to smear him. (I have invited Ed Haslam to add his comments to this thread, which I will be glad to post.)

At that time, I was discussing the "underground laboratory" in Ferrie's apartment. Once I read the new book (at YOUR suggestion) and noted that he had changed focus to the other apartment (partly at MY suggestion, because I found evidence to the contrary through real research), I discussed that. Oh, I guess "critical thinking" doesn't adequately prepare one to see such a simple distinction. It sounds SO much better when one avoids elementary standards of research to make it sound >gasp< sinister!

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Kathy,

How many abusive, repetitive, infantile, petty, self-absorbed, belittling, and repetitive posts does someone like Glenn Viklund have to make before the moderator notices and harnesses him in? Believe it or not, I was going to compliment Evan for his role here when I noticed that he had taken no measures to put an end to this string of abuses. That he has done something about it now is a welcome development. Apart from this solitary lapse, I think that, on the whole, he has been doing a good job here.

Jim

Evan,

Frankly, I had wondered what had become of you. This guy must have put up at least twenty (20) of these petty, juvenile, self-absorbed, belittling, repetitive and harassing posts. I would appreciate it if you would work backwards from his latest infantile assault and consider whether he has or has not so massively violated forum rules that he deserves the boot. I believe that he does. I also think it's obvious.

Jim

Glenn,

I have had to remove bad language from your post, and your tone is bordering on insulting / attacking a member. Please carefully consider your choice of words.

Also, although not active, Judyth is a member here and therefore the provisions of rule (iv) apply.

Thank you.

Prof. Fetzer, I think Evan's post represents his job as modertator. I know Evan Burton to be a very nice and charitible man. His post to me, when I had the "Big C," lifted my spirits up, as did all who wrote to me. Nothing in this post says anything about your work, Prof. Fetzer. And he reminded all of us that Judyth is a member here and she should be treated with respect just like the rest of us. What's wrong with that?

Kathy C

Edited April 26, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Stephen Roy]

Judyth:

Despite our differences - sometimes profound - I sense a certain level of respect between us. I've never wished you any ill will, and I have tried very hard to be polite and restrained, and to stay out of the way. I think you know what I mean. Still, I'm probably the last person from whom you would accept advice.

Given all you've been through, I imagine it must be comforting to have a champion to help you deal with all this. I hold Martin and Howard in very high esteem, and I think my actions have reflected this. Now you have Jim Fetzer as your champion, and again, I have tried to stay out of the main lines of fire. As you recall, I have had a few reservations about Ed Haslam's books, and I carefully and gently mentioned them in this thread. You're a smart researcher - I'm sure you know he's made a few mistakes. But Jim's reaction was all out of proportion to my comments.

I don't know if having him as your champion is doing you much good. He's a smart guy (don't tell him I said that) but he has a fatal flaw which brings him into conflict with people. Where he should be drawing people to serious discussion of your case, he is instead alienating people in droves. The good Jim is the smart scholar, but the bad Jim is the much more powerful guy who thinks he smarter than everyone else and can't abide anyone disagreeing with him.

I don't suggest that you do anything drastic, but you might want to consider talking to him a bit about this. With your book coming out, you want to put your best foot forward, and "this ain't your best foot" right now.

Forgive me for writing in public. I don't know how else to contact you.

Steve

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

After 1700 posts, I think everyone knows the score here, Stephen, including about you. I will make sure she sees this.

Judyth:

Despite our differences - sometimes profound - I sense a certain level of respect between us. I've never wished you any ill will, and I have tried very hard to be polite and restrained, and to stay out of the way. I think you know what I mean. Still, I'm probably the last person from whom you would accept advice.

Given all you've been through, I imagine it must be comforting to have a champion to help you deal with all this. I hold Martin and Howard in very high esteem, and I think my actions have reflected this. Now you have Jim Fetzer as your champion, and again, I have tried to stay out of the main lines of fire. As you recall, I have had a few reservations about Ed Haslam's books, and I carefully and gently mentioned them in this thread. You're a smart researcher - I'm sure you know he's made a few mistakes. But Jim's reaction was all out of proportion to my comments.

I don't know if having him as your champion is doing you much good. He's a smart guy (don't tell him I said that) but he has a fatal flaw which brings him into conflict with people. Where he should be drawing people to serious discussion of your case, he is instead alienating people in droves. The good Jim is the smart scholar, but the bad Jim is the much more powerful guy who thinks he smarter than everyone else and can't abide anyone disagreeing with him.

I don't suggest that you do anything drastic, but you might want to consider talking to him a bit about this. With your book coming out, you want to put your best foot forward, and "this ain't your best foot" right now.

Forgive me for writing in public. I don't know how else to contact you.

Steve

Edited April 26, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Barb Junkkarinen]

Hi Greg,

I don't know where you got the idea I have ever conceded that Judyth knew Oswald. I have not.

Several times in this thread I have stated that it is documented that Judyth was a stellar science student in high school, and that she worked at Reily Coffee in 1963 at the same time as Oswald. And that is all. Beyond that, there is no known documentation for any of her claims re Oswald or New Orleans.

I believe claims (by anyone) that can be fact checked, should be fact checked. Get everything that can be confirmed or denied on the record ... whether one assumes or concedes a witness is telling the truth or not. Judyth makes many claims .... including one about this book. If it is Oswald's writing in this book, it is a very important piece of evidence for her as it will actually link her to Oswald. Nothing else she has offered as evidence/proof does that.

In my opinion, having this writing she claims is Oswald's examined .... is a no brainer. And I cannot fathom why anyone interested in the facts/truth of her claims ... especially those who support and promote her ... would balk at doing just that. If she is telling the truth, she has nothing to lose and everything to gain. If this claim is true, it gives her a factual base for having known Oswald.

I don't consider fact checking an important claim as an "exercise in futility."

Bests,

Barb :-)

[snip]...

Bizarre. LHO writing in the margins of her book would establish she knew him. Just how/why you would think it would automatically establish anything beyond that ... like working in some secret Ferrie kitchen cancer bioweapon lab is nonsensical. [snip]...

Barb,

While I agree with you that even if the above item is shown to be Oswald's writing it does not prove all of her other claims are true. However, why are you asking for this handwriting verification if its only purpose is to substantiate that which you have already conceded based on other evidence? If you have already conceded the high probability that they knew each other based on their concurrent employment at Reily's, why ask for this exercise in futility since, as you say, it won't prove anything beyond that which you already concede anyway?

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Lee, this must be the third time I've tried to close it down. But there are a lot who want to take a final whack. I think that's the deal.

This thread has lost it's way again...

...as Clara Peller would say "Where's the beef?"

It's turned into, as we say this side of the pond, a fight between men with handbags at ten paces.

Shall we get back to the debate?

Regardless of the JVB story, do most of us on here believe that there was something dodgy going on concerning medical experiments in NOLA with Ochsner, Sherman, Ferrie, Kloepfer, Draper and the like? Are most people just disagreeing that JVB was part of this, that she has inserted herself into the story through the gaps and cracks or that the whole series of events either a. didn't happen or b. had no connection to the assassination story?

Edited April 26, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Glenn Viklund]

Fetzer:

"How many abusive, repetitive, infantile, petty, self-absorbed, belittling, and repetitive posts does someone like Glenn Viklund have to make before the moderator notices and harnesses him in? Believe it or not, I was going to compliment Evan for his role here when I noticed that he had taken no measures to put an end to this string of abuses. That he has done something about it now is a welcome development. Apart from this solitary lapse, I think that, on the whole, he has been doing a good job here."

This is one of the rules:

"(iv) Members should not make personal attacks on other members. Nor should references be made to their abilities as researchers. Most importantly, the motivations of the poster should not be questioned. At all times members should concentrate on what is being said, rather than who is saying it. It is up to the reader to look at the biography submitted by the poster, to judge whether they are telling the truth or not. The word “xxxx” is banned from use on the forum."

How many times in this thread have you, Mr Fetzer, violated this rule? 50? 100? You have questioned the motivation of basically every single individual who does not agree with you. As for me, you have done this repeatedly. You have even questioned the ID of several participants of this thread. You have had no hesitation in labelling me as a spy, government agent, insider and a whole lot more. Furthermore, you have also belittled me and others with a whole range of derogatory phrases. All of this in violation with rule 4, above.

It's about time you quit this little victim act of yours, it is ridiculous. You have broken the rules of this forum infinitely more than anyone else in this thread.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Glenn Viklund

[Kathleen Collins]

JVB admits in participating in a premeditated murder. I am surprised that nobody wants

her brought to justice. Scientific experimentation is no justification for murder.

We have attorneys on the forum. How about a legal opinion?

Jack

Many assertions have been made AND ACCEPTED AS FACT that a mental patient was injected

with Judy's cancer virus, and promptly died.

Why is this accepted as true without any checking? Hospitals keep voluminous records on

patients. What was the name of this patient? Where is the death report? Who administered

the injection? Where was the patient buried? What was the date of the injection and the date

of death? Many questions, few answers.

If this incident happened as reported, it clearly is a case of MURDER. There is no statute

of limitations on murder. If JVB admits to creating this cancer virus and being a party to

administering it to some poor unfortunate mental patient...IT IS STILL MURDER, PREMEDITATED

MURDER...not a scientific experiment. JVB has CONFESSED to murder and gone unprosecuted.

Am I the only one who finds this extraordinary?

Jack

I can see that the CIA would want to make a bioweapon against Castro. It's for America's safety. However, experimenting on a human beforehand is atrocious. Judyth didn't know prior to the man's death (if true). But knowing that Kennedy was most likely going to be killed, and not taking any action anonymously, is close to premeditated murder. She has, in fact, confessed, as Jack says. Maybe she's lucky few people believe her.

I think I would have gone to the FBI with this knowledge to prevent this assassination. Of course I would have been killed. Maybe I would go to a reporter and tell my whole part in the bioweapon scheme and that Kennedy was going to be killed. And then wait to be killed. So how could Judyth prevent the assassination without losing her own life? I don't know if legally she'd be responsible in part. What would any of us do in her shoes? If true.

Kathy C

[Barb Junkkarinen]

How many abusive, repetitive, infantile, petty, self-absorbed, belittling, and repetitive posts does someone like Glenn Viklund have to make before the moderator notices and harnesses him in?

I dunno ... how many are you up to now? :-) There are more than a couple here who have been wondering the same thing for weeks. But not about Glenn Viklund.

How about if we all concentrate on discussing claims and evidence issues rather than running commentary in post after post on the ability, integrity, intelligence and intentions of other posters?

Just a thought.

[Glenn Viklund]

How many abusive, repetitive, infantile, petty, self-absorbed, belittling, and repetitive posts does someone like Glenn Viklund have to make before the moderator notices and harnesses him in?

I dunno ... how many are you up to now? :-) There are more than a couple here who have been wondering the same thing for weeks. But not about Glenn Viklund.

How about if we all concentrate on discussing claims and evidence issues rather than running commentary in post after post on the ability, integrity, intelligence and intentions of other posters?

Just a thought.

Agreed.

[John Dolva]

Fetzer:

"How many abusive, repetitive, infantile, petty, self-absorbed, belittling, and repetitive posts does someone like Glenn Viklund have to make before the moderator notices and harnesses him in? Believe it or not, I was going to compliment Evan for his role here when I noticed that he had taken no measures to put an end to this string of abuses. That he has done something about it now is a welcome development. Apart from this solitary lapse, I think that, on the whole, he has been doing a good job here."

This is one of the rules:

"(iv) Members should not make personal attacks on other members. Nor should references be made to their abilities as researchers. Most importantly, the motivations of the poster should not be questioned. At all times members should concentrate on what is being said, rather than who is saying it. It is up to the reader to look at the biography submitted by the poster, to judge whether they are telling the truth or not. The word "xxxx" is banned from use on the forum."

How many times in this thread have you, Mr Fetzer, violated this rule? 50? 100? You have questioned the motivation of basically every single individual who does not agree with you. As for me, you have done this repeatedly. You have even questioned the ID of several participants of this thread. You have had no hesitation in labelling me as a spy, government agent, insider and a whole lot more. Furthermore, you have also belittled me and others with a whole range of derogatory phrases. All of this in violation with rule 4, above.

It's about time you quit this little victim act of yours, it is ridiculous. You have broken the rules of this forum infinitely more than anyone else in this thread.

As Barb points out this is obvious. Jim's uncontrollable projection of all his flaws onto others has been going on for years. Why it's tolerated to the degree it is and Glenn singled out for relatively tame words is really quite amazing.

_______

Kathy, how does killing Castro save the US of A?

JVB's claims about foreknowledge and non action is atrocious. The assassination threatened to trigger a nuclear confrontation, and in the years since has led to the deaths and miseries of millions if not billions of the earths population.

Patriotism truly is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Precious soil : Bah!

Edited April 26, 2010 by John Dolva

[Kathleen Collins]

Kathy,

How many abusive, repetitive, infantile, petty, self-absorbed, belittling, and repetitive posts does someone like Glenn Viklund have to make before the moderator notices and harnesses him in? Believe it or not, I was going to compliment Evan for his role here when I noticed that he had taken no measures to put an end to this string of abuses. That he has done something about it now is a welcome development. Apart from this solitary lapse, I think that, on the whole, he has been doing a good job here.

Jim

Evan,

Frankly, I had wondered what had become of you. This guy must have put up at least twenty (20) of these petty, juvenile, self-absorbed, belittling, repetitive and harassing posts. I would appreciate it if you would work backwards from his latest infantile assault and consider whether he has or has not so massively violated forum rules that he deserves the boot. I believe that he does. I also think it's obvious.

Jim

Glenn,

I have had to remove bad language from your post, and your tone is bordering on insulting / attacking a member. Please carefully consider your choice of words.

Also, although not active, Judyth is a member here and therefore the provisions of rule (iv) apply.

Thank you.

Prof. Fetzer, I have to apologize to you. I misunderstood what I was reading and have deleted the post regarding Evan Burton.

Kathy C

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Lee, with the latest from Junkkarinen, Viklund, and Dolva, I rest my case. We are far beyond the point of diminishing returns.

Lee, this must be the third time I've tried to close it down. But there are a lot who want to take a final whack. I think that's the deal.

This thread has lost it's way again...

...as Clara Peller would say "Where's the beef?"

It's turned into, as we say this side of the pond, a fight between men with handbags at ten paces.

Shall we get back to the debate?

Regardless of the JVB story, do most of us on here believe that there was something dodgy going on concerning medical experiments in NOLA with Ochsner, Sherman, Ferrie, Kloepfer, Draper and the like? Are most people just disagreeing that JVB was part of this, that she has inserted herself into the story through the gaps and cracks or that the whole series of events either a. didn't happen or b. had no connection to the assassination story?

Edited April 26, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[John Dolva]

Jim, you were far beyond anything before you even started. It's tragi comical that you are incapable of recognising it.

What comic book did you clip your creds from?