Willis 5 is heavily retouched

[Bill Miller]

An earlier study.

Jack - you cannot see the south side of the concrete wall from where Willis stood. The sunlit area with shade along its lower half is further down the fence line.

http://www.jfk.org/go/collections/item-det...m:2002.040.0007

Bill Miller

[John Kennedy White]

An earlier study.

Jack - you cannot see the south side of the concrete wall from where Willis stood. The sunlit area with shade along its lower half is further down the fence line.

http://www.jfk.org/go/collections/item-det...m:2002.040.0007

Bill Miller

That version of Willis is very good. BDM is quite defined there. What is the accepted theory on that person?

[John Dolva]

I don't know if there is one. I suggested a lady with a baby a couple of years ago. Some have said the same. It seems to me the most likely supported by other photos.

[David G. Healy]

An earlier study.

Jack - you cannot see the south side of the concrete wall from where Willis stood. The sunlit area with shade along its lower half is further down the fence line.

http://www.jfk.org/go/collections/item-det...m:2002.040.0007

Bill Miller

so, how is the 6th floor mausoleum job going?

[Lee Forman]

Peter said:

"To me the number of people on the steps has the greatest potential sinister factor."

Peter,

There's nothing sinister at all about the number of people on the steps. The number has always been three. That's just one of the many reasons why the F. Lee Mudd thread was so important.

The three men:

1. A 56 year old man who was caretaker of Dealey Plaza (Emmett Hudson).

2. A "young fellow" in his late twenties who worked "over on Industrial Blvd." in Dallas (name unknown).

3. A 60 year old man in Dallas on business from Shreveport, LA (F. Lee Mudd).

They're all accounted for now, and they can be seen in Moorman, Muchmore and Nix. And yes. Willis, too.

In Willis, our view of Hudson is blocked almost completely by the "young fellow." Still, you can see part of Hudson if you look close enough. Unfortunately, Jack has provided a Willis enlargement with a rectangle around the "young fellow" that partially blocks out Hudson.

Nothing sinister happening on the stairs, Peter. Or behind the retaining wall, for that matter.

Behind the fence is another story altogether.

Ken

Must be nice to know things with such certainty. This part of the plane doesn't go to Miami.

Mudd is speculation only as to his position without additional supporting evidence - and there is plenty of doubt, with the nature of his report, the vagueness of other accounts like Hudson, etc. - this is sheer speculation - and should be noted as such.

As to whether or not something sinister occurred on the steps - it's equally vague. We have the account of Sitzman and the coke bottle breaking incident, the Brennan bit on the box of wadding and smoke, the red pools of what appeared to be blood, the appearance of misleading the witness in the case of the diagram of the area drawn by Specter and Jean Hill, the alleged account provided by Gordon Arnold, the STRONGER possibility that the man on the stairs was the same as can be scene in aftermath photos as being a black male and associated with the black woman and small child - behind which is more strength with the interview by the Press Bus guy whose name I never remember Roberts - etc., etc.

Add to the mix the clear difference in the various Moorman [5?] photos - which I have attempted to demonstrate myself here on multiple occasions.

Chock in the chain of evidence problem. Consider that people lying on the sidewalk could apply to more than this area - as there is a limitation on available footage and photography evidence for the area closer to the TSBD.

Chock in the anomaly which exists in the earliest Moorman 5 generations for this area of the stairs [including first day newspaper publications] which does not in later versions.

On the Willis view - as per a prior post, I examined very high resolution scans of high quality color Willis photos provided to me physically by another researcher who came by them directly from the hands of Mrs. Willis. I was not able to confirm this alleged overlap - and even would theorize that the third man to join the group did so upon the approach of the motorcade - which would account for his absence. Furthermore - Hudson does not refer to 2 individuals within spitting distance - he refers only to a young man - and on the basis of the quality of the materials and more speculation - we could assume this to be the individual in the red shirt - BUT - there is no evidence of the man in the red shirt lying down before Hudson - no evidence of anyone lying down in this area and urging someone else to join him - only the opposite as per what we see in Nix. The aftermath leaves us with a possible conclusion that the man in the red shirt is one and the same since we see the two men sitting together after-the-fact. And on the basis of taking into account all photos and films of this area during and after - I certainly wouldn't want to take odds that the man in the red shirt was 60 years old - the reverse again.

Once again, I would like Mark Oakes opinion on subject - I do not have his contact info - and if anyone does, would be great to address the Mudd topic, and see what additional info he may have on the possible ID of the other men on the stairs..

On topic - chain of evidence for Willis material? I did send an email to Rosemary - requesting that she fill in the blank around her alleged 'unedited' account of events as provided to the Dallas Monthly interview - where she begins to speak about Kodak and imposters and the entire piece is omitted - without response.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=146909

[Bill Miller]

name='Bill Miller' post='185696' date='Mar 4 2010, 11:57 AM'] name='Jack White' post='185216' date='Mar 1 2010, 01:04 AM']An earlier study.

Jack - you cannot see the south side of the concrete wall from where Willis stood. The sunlit area with shade along its lower half is further down the fence line.

http://www.jfk.org/go/collections/item-det...m:2002.040.0007

Bill Miller

so, how is the 6th floor mausoleum job going?

Oh ... did I wake you up, David. Any comment about Jack's claim concerning Willis 5 or was that about the time you fell asleep? How about it David, can you see the south wall of the dog-leg??

Bill Miller

Edited March 5, 2010 by Bill Miller

[David G. Healy]

name='Bill Miller' post='185696' date='Mar 4 2010, 11:57 AM'] name='Jack White' post='185216' date='Mar 1 2010, 01:04 AM']An earlier study.

Jack - you cannot see the south side of the concrete wall from where Willis stood. The sunlit area with shade along its lower half is further down the fence line.

http://www.jfk.org/go/collections/item-det...m:2002.040.0007

Bill Miller

so, how is the 6th floor mausoleum job going?

Oh ... did I wake you up, David. Any comment about Jack's claim concerning Willis 5 or was that about the time you fell asleep? How about it David, can you see the south wall of the dog-leg??

Bill Miller

gee you studiously avoided my question, should I take that to mean, yeah it's going okay, but the money sucks? And to answer your question, no, I can't see the "dogleg" from my perspective I suspect YETI is standing in front of it. Go figure!

[Bill Miller]

And to answer your question, no, I can't see the "dogleg" from my perspective I suspect YETI is standing in front of it. Go figure!

Adda boy ... thanks for acknowledging Jack's mistake ... he'll maybe rethink his position now for he knows how much it hurts you to admit that he blew another one. However, we don't want to take anything away from your actually addressing a JFK assassination matter for the first time .... Great job, David ... I didn't think you had it in you! I look forward to us doing it again sometime.

Bill Miller

Edited March 5, 2010 by Bill Miller

[Bill Miller]

Mark Oakes can be contacted at ........ realjfkfacts@hotmail.com

[Lee Forman]

Mark Oakes can be contacted at ........ realjfkfacts@hotmail.com

Thanks very much for that Bill - owe you one.

- lee

[Bill Miller]

So far nobody has addressed what is shown by this study...mostly just

attacks on me for not explaining HOW it was done. Good grief! I do not

know how it was done; I am just showing that it WAS done...but certain

people prefer to kill the messenger.

Oh Brother ... is this garbage still going on! Angles have never been a strong point for you, Jack. Go to the Plaza and take a photo from the Willis location and see if you can see the south dog leg ... you can't! You misread the image and attempt to pass off your error as alteration.

Simply go take a sharp photo from where Willis stood and the answer will be undeniable ... at least until you think to say that someone altered your photo. (sigh)

Bill MIller

[Mark Knight]

So far nobody has addressed what is shown by this study...mostly just

attacks on me for not explaining HOW it was done. Good grief! I do not

know how it was done; I am just showing that it WAS done...but certain

people prefer to kill the messenger.

Oh Brother ... is this garbage still going on! Angles have never been a strong point for you, Jack. Go to the Plaza and take a photo from the Willis location and see if you can see the south dog leg ... you can't! You misread the image and attempt to pass off your error as alteration.

Simply go take a sharp photo from where Willis stood and the answer will be undeniable ... at least until you think to say that someone altered your photo. (sigh)

Bill MIller

Mr. Miller, what is "still" going on? Jack's post that you qouted was made FIVE DAYS BEFORE your last previous post on this topic. The only "still going on" stuff that I can see is YOU resurrecting this thread after 6 months of dormancy. Seems like it is YOU, Bill Miller, who can't let sleeping threads lie...because certainly even YOU can see that YOUR posts on this thread ALL came AFTER the Jack White post you cited here! And I cite the datestamps on the posts in this thread as evidence of such.

Or is there evidence of alteration of the datestamps on the posts, Mr. Miller? [And it's OK with me if you clear your answer with Gary Mack before you post a reply.]

Edited September 26, 2010 by Mark Knight

[John Dolva]

I think perhaps my reference to my exchanges with Bill in my apology to Martin might also have something to do with it.

[Bill Miller]

So far nobody has addressed what is shown by this study...mostly just

attacks on me for not explaining HOW it was done. Good grief! I do not

know how it was done; I am just showing that it WAS done...but certain

people prefer to kill the messenger.

Oh Brother ... is this garbage still going on! Angles have never been a strong point for you, Jack. Go to the Plaza and take a photo from the Willis location and see if you can see the south dog leg ... you can't! You misread the image and attempt to pass off your error as alteration.

Simply go take a sharp photo from where Willis stood and the answer will be undeniable ... at least until you think to say that someone altered your photo. (sigh)

Bill MIller

Mr. Miller, what is "still" going on? Jack's post that you qouted was made FIVE DAYS BEFORE your last previous post on this topic. The only "still going on" stuff that I can see is YOU resurrecting this thread after 6 months of dormancy. Seems like it is YOU, Bill Miller, who can't let sleeping threads lie...because certainly even YOU can see that YOUR posts on this thread ALL came AFTER the Jack White post you cited here! And I cite the datestamps on the posts in this thread as evidence of such.

Or is there evidence of alteration of the datestamps on the posts, Mr. Miller? [And it's OK with me if you clear your answer with Gary Mack before you post a reply.]

I was notified by another researcher as to what I thought about it and the alteration ... I didn't look at the time stamp as I was told that Jack still feels his alteration claim is valid.

As far as Gary Mack ... I respect Gary, but he has nothing to do with my responses. I thought by now that some of the same old screwballs would have stopped making such foolish allegations by now. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Bill