Moon Walk Hoax

[Len Colby]

thanks david for showing the posters other than Jack, how rude and ignorant they really are, that leaves all with never a good impression of them....good lord has it gotten to the point here, where a question cannot be asked, without being rudely bombarded by some trying to pretend they are supposed know it alls.gentlemen...ha, you are crap... b

Years ago Jack himself started a thread based on the proposition that calling someone ignorant “is not an insult, but a description” because all it means is that a person is “Lacking education or knowledge…Unaware or uninformed”. Bernice posted on the thread but did not object to his reasoning*. I have repeatedly been excoriated by Jim D for posting before having read certain books he deemed essential. Kathy could have answered her own questions if she had performed a quick Google search or glanced at Wikipedia. Now imagine the reception a LNT would get here if he posted something like the following “Since Oswald was a trained sniper why does anyone doubt he could have killed JFK?” wouldn’t they be justly ridiculed for their lack of knowledge and failure to do basic research before starting a new thread?

* http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=9275

Its a JFK forum, right? You said this yourself.

So one expects people who have opinions to be able to cite sources for their opinions or facts.

The Moon Landing thing is different. Its an offshoot at best. ANd there is no way the size of the library there is on JFK in that field.

But if the mods are going to let her post here, then she deserves straight answers to the questions brought up in that rather relatively rarified field.

Actually in name and theory this is an EDUCATION forum but of course it is made up of various sections and subsections. This thread of course was started in the JFK assassination subsection where John Simkin specifically asked members to only start threads on that topic. The section it has been moved to is the appropriate one for Apollo threads.

Amazon seems to have a similar number of books (400 – 500) about the JFK assassination and moon landing. But Kathy’s questions weren’t “rarified” the 2nd was elementary school science the 1st a bit more advanced but both could have been answered in a few seconds through Google or Wikipedia.

And in case you missed I did answer her 2nd question.

[Kathleen Collins]

Also, if there's no gravity, how could they stay on the moon?

In order to keep the astronauts on the surface of the moon, their backpacks were each filled with some of Earth's gravity before leaving. Because this gravity wasn't returned, people on Earth became lighter as a result of the Apollo missons, though only by several billionths of a gram each.

Maybe that explains my weight loss. Thanks for sharing.

Kathy C

[Kathleen Collins]

I couldn't find a moon walk thread here because it was everybody fighting. But I have questions. Maybe Jack White could answer.

First Moon Walk

How did we get through the Van Allen Radiation Belts?

Why is it that when the astronauts were on the moon there was gravity. On youtube.com you can see them jumping, not "flying." Often we were shown how lack of gravity made the astronauts in their capsule float freely in the air. Why didn't we see this on the first moon walk?

Also, if there's no gravity, how could they stay on the moon? Wouldn't they fly off into space? And the rocket too?

Thank You,

Kathy C

Hi Kathy...

Not sure why some have to be so hostile... there are other forums for sure yet with Jack here, usually, this is where it would get the most notice and response...

http://www.crystalinks.com/vanallenbelt.html

The Van Allen Belt's Impact on Space Travel

Solar cells, integrated circuits, and sensors can be damaged by radiation. In 1962, the Van Allen belts were temporarily amplified by a high-altitude nuclear explosion (the Starfish Prime test) and several satellites ceased operation.

Magnetic storms occasionally damage electronic components on spacecraft. Miniaturization and digitization of electronics and logic circuits have made satellites more vulnerable to radiation, as incoming ions may be as large as the circuit's charge. Electronics on satellites must be hardened against radiation to operate reliably.

The Hubble Space Telescope, among other satellites, often has its sensors turned off when passing through regions of intense radiation. An object satellite shielded by 3 mm of aluminum will receive about 2500 rem (25 Sv) per year.

Proponents of the Apollo Moon Landing Hoax have argued that space travel to the moon is impossible because the Van Allen radiation would kill or incapacitate an astronaut who made the trip. Van Allen himself, still alive and living in Iowa City, has dismissed these ideas.

In practice, Apollo astronauts who travelled to the moon spent very little time in the belts and received a harmless dose. Nevertheless NASA deliberately timed Apollo launches, and used lunar transfer orbits that only skirted the edge of the belt over the equator to minimise the radiation. Astronauts who visited the moon probably have a slightly higher risk of cancer during their lifetimes, but still remain unlikely to become ill because of it.

"Gravity is the force that causes two particles to pull towards each other"

As long as there is mass, there is gravity... the moon being smaller has less gravity as mass has a direct relationship to gravitational pull.

http://www.squidoo.com/apollo-moon-landing-photos-from-space

Now some may say these too are faked.... Leaving garbage around the universe is completely American ... n

o surprise we left ours on the moon as well.

Thank you, David, for the link. That site has a lot of interesting stuff.

Kathy C

[Matthew Lewis]

I couldn't find a moon walk thread here because it was everybody fighting. But I have questions. Maybe Jack White could answer.

First Moon Walk

How did we get through the Van Allen Radiation Belts?

Why is it that when the astronauts were on the moon there was gravity. On youtube.com you can see them jumping, not "flying." Often we were shown how lack of gravity made the astronauts in their capsule float freely in the air. Why didn't we see this on the first moon walk?

Also, if there's no gravity, how could they stay on the moon? Wouldn't they fly off into space? And the rocket too?

Thank You,

Kathy C

Hi Kathy...

Not sure why some have to be so hostile... there are other forums for sure yet with Jack here, usually, this is where it would get the most notice and response...

http://www.crystalinks.com/vanallenbelt.html

The Van Allen Belt's Impact on Space Travel

Solar cells, integrated circuits, and sensors can be damaged by radiation. In 1962, the Van Allen belts were temporarily amplified by a high-altitude nuclear explosion (the Starfish Prime test) and several satellites ceased operation.

Magnetic storms occasionally damage electronic components on spacecraft. Miniaturization and digitization of electronics and logic circuits have made satellites more vulnerable to radiation, as incoming ions may be as large as the circuit's charge. Electronics on satellites must be hardened against radiation to operate reliably.

The Hubble Space Telescope, among other satellites, often has its sensors turned off when passing through regions of intense radiation. An object satellite shielded by 3 mm of aluminum will receive about 2500 rem (25 Sv) per year.

Proponents of the Apollo Moon Landing Hoax have argued that space travel to the moon is impossible because the Van Allen radiation would kill or incapacitate an astronaut who made the trip. Van Allen himself, still alive and living in Iowa City, has dismissed these ideas.

In practice, Apollo astronauts who travelled to the moon spent very little time in the belts and received a harmless dose. Nevertheless NASA deliberately timed Apollo launches, and used lunar transfer orbits that only skirted the edge of the belt over the equator to minimise the radiation. Astronauts who visited the moon probably have a slightly higher risk of cancer during their lifetimes, but still remain unlikely to become ill because of it.

"Gravity is the force that causes two particles to pull towards each other"

As long as there is mass, there is gravity... the moon being smaller has less gravity as mass has a direct relationship to gravitational pull.

http://www.squidoo.com/apollo-moon-landing-photos-from-space

Now some may say these too are faked.... Leaving garbage around the universe is completely American ... n

o surprise we left ours on the moon as well.

Here are some good videos that show those transfer orbits and how they skirted the edges of the belts.

Edited March 18, 2011 by Matthew Lewis

[Kathleen Collins]

I couldn't find a moon walk thread here because it was everybody fighting. But I have questions. Maybe Jack White could answer.

First Moon Walk

How did we get through the Van Allen Radiation Belts?

Why is it that when the astronauts were on the moon there was gravity. On youtube.com you can see them jumping, not "flying." Often we were shown how lack of gravity made the astronauts in their capsule float freely in the air. Why didn't we see this on the first moon walk?

Also, if there's no gravity, how could they stay on the moon? Wouldn't they fly off into space? And the rocket too?

Thank You,

Kathy C

Hi Kathleen!

1. The Van Allen belts. These were traversed by the spacecraft having a sufficient layer of shielding, by travelling through the areas of least radiation density, and by getting through the belts as quickly as possible. Some details can be seen in the Apollo radiation plan and the biomedical results from Apollo. Some good summaries are also available here and here, where you can calculate yourself the anticipated dosage based on the flight plans. These diagrammes might help you understand how they skirted the VAB:

2. Gravity. The Moon, being quite a small solar body, has quite low gravity (approximately 1/6th that of the Earth). If you want to work it out for yourself, use the formula:

g = -GM/(r*r)

where :

g is the acceleration of gravity at a particular point. On the surface of the Earth, g is approximately 9.81 m/s²

G is the universal gravitational constant = 6.67x10^-11 Nm²/kg²

M is the mass of the object. Look up the mass of the Moon yourself. Make sure the mass is expressed in Kg.

r is the distance from the centre of the body, in metres. In other words, the radius of the body. Again, look that up yourself.

The negative sign is used to reflect the fact that the pull of gravity is toward the centre. To compare it to the acceleration due to gravity on Earth, compare to 9.81

Anyway, low gravity does not mean NO gravity. When you see footage of the Apollo astronauts floating around the spacecraft, that is in space (technically called microgravity). On the Moon, you could see the effects of the low gravity:

- Dust and dirt arcing, following a ballistic trajectory but showing no signs of billowing (which would happen in an atmosphere)

- Astronauts able to leap around, jumping quite high despite having significant mass on them from their suits and life support system - the PLSS (they didn't jump as high as they might have been able to for two reasons: firstly, the suit restricted their movements; secondly, they were worried about losing their balance and damaging the PLSS or helmet).

- Difficulty in drilling for core samples in the lunar crust; they couldn't rely on weight to keep them down. Leaning on the drills only had minimal effect because they weighed so much less.

Happy to answer further questions, or expand on any of the answers if you like.

Thanks for answering me. You've given me quite educational links. In college I took Biology, which I had in high school also. But in college I couldn't fit Physics into my schedule. They were teaching astronomy.

In high school we were given "Physical Science" Freshman year, but I don't remember a thing about it because I was too busy after school hanging out, smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee. Getting drunk on the weekend. Playing hooky and going over to NYC. The nun who taught that class told me she loved me and I think that's why she passed me, may she rest in peace.

Thanks for all the info. And thank you, David Josephs, for your kindness and information.

I am an observer (I don't know how else to put it) of Quantum Physics. IMO science, including chemistry, physics and biology, is an attempt to find God. I am told that Quantum Physics is coming close.

And I do want to ask Evan a question, since I'm here in this thread anyway. In such low gravity on the moon or floating in their space capsules, how do astronauts keep their food down?

Kathy C

[Matthew Lewis]

And I do want to ask Evan a question, since I'm here in this thread anyway. In such low gravity on the moon or floating in their space capsules, how do astronauts keep their food down?

Kathy C

I'm not Evan but I could answer this. Eating or drinking is not dependent on gravity. Food and liquids are moved through our system through muscle contractions. One could (although you probably wouldn't want to) eat and drink while standing on your head.

[Kathleen Collins]

I couldn't find a moon walk thread here because it was everybody fighting. But I have questions. Maybe Jack White could answer.

First Moon Walk

How did we get through the Van Allen Radiation Belts?

Why is it that when the astronauts were on the moon there was gravity. On youtube.com you can see them jumping, not "flying." Often we were shown how lack of gravity made the astronauts in their capsule float freely in the air. Why didn't we see this on the first moon walk?

Also, if there's no gravity, how could they stay on the moon? Wouldn't they fly off into space? And the rocket too?

Thank You,

Kathy C

Hi Kathleen!

1. The Van Allen belts. These were traversed by the spacecraft having a sufficient layer of shielding, by travelling through the areas of least radiation density, and by getting through the belts as quickly as possible. Some details can be seen in the Apollo radiation plan and the biomedical results from Apollo. Some good summaries are also available here and here, where you can calculate yourself the anticipated dosage based on the flight plans. These diagrammes might help you understand how they skirted the VAB:

2. Gravity. The Moon, being quite a small solar body, has quite low gravity (approximately 1/6th that of the Earth). If you want to work it out for yourself, use the formula:

g = -GM/(r*r)

where :

g is the acceleration of gravity at a particular point. On the surface of the Earth, g is approximately 9.81 m/s²

G is the universal gravitational constant = 6.67x10^-11 Nm²/kg²

M is the mass of the object. Look up the mass of the Moon yourself. Make sure the mass is expressed in Kg.

r is the distance from the centre of the body, in metres. In other words, the radius of the body. Again, look that up yourself.

The negative sign is used to reflect the fact that the pull of gravity is toward the centre. To compare it to the acceleration due to gravity on Earth, compare to 9.81

Anyway, low gravity does not mean NO gravity. When you see footage of the Apollo astronauts floating around the spacecraft, that is in space (technically called microgravity). On the Moon, you could see the effects of the low gravity:

- Dust and dirt arcing, following a ballistic trajectory but showing no signs of billowing (which would happen in an atmosphere)

- Astronauts able to leap around, jumping quite high despite having significant mass on them from their suits and life support system - the PLSS (they didn't jump as high as they might have been able to for two reasons: firstly, the suit restricted their movements; secondly, they were worried about losing their balance and damaging the PLSS or helmet).

- Difficulty in drilling for core samples in the lunar crust; they couldn't rely on weight to keep them down. Leaning on the drills only had minimal effect because they weighed so much less.

Happy to answer further questions, or expand on any of the answers if you like.

Thanks for answering me, Evan. You've given me quite a bunch of educational links. In college I took Biology, which I had in high school also. But in college I couldn't fit Physics into my schedule. They were teaching astronomy.

In high school we were given "Physical Science" Freshman year, but I don't remember a thing about it because I was too busy after school hanging out, smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee. Getting drunk on the weekend. Playing hooky and going over to NYC. The nun who taught that class told me she loved me and I think that's why she passed me, may she rest in peace.

Thanks for all the info. And thank you, David Josephs, for your kindness and information. And Matthew Lewis for answering me amid this tempest in a teapot.

I am an observer (I don't know how else to put it) of Quantum Physics. IMO science, including chemistry, physics and biology, is an attempt to find God. I am told that Quantum Physics is coming close.

And I do want to ask Evan a question, since I'm here in this thread anyway. In such low gravity on the moon or floating in their space capsules, how do astronauts keep their food down? The reason I am asking this and my first questions is because there are notable people who do not believe we got through the Van Allen Radiation Belts and there are other notables who say, yes, we were on the moon.

There is a news conference held in some auditorium with the 3 men sitting stone-faced on a dais: Buzz Aldrin, Neil Armstrong and Michael Collins. I've never seen such crest-fallen people in my life. You have to watch it to believe it. Collins accidentally remarked about his falling over the TV cables. One of the other astronauts starts to speak and mentions the "scientific camera," as a cover for Collins. They sit there like they're in a trance. So what I'm saying is, who can you believe? And that's why I asked my "ignorant" questions.

On youtube.com there is a sequence of videos claiming the moon walk was a hoax perpetrated by Nixon and filmed by film director Kubrick, who afterwards became a recluse. Kissinger, Nixon's first secretary, Alexander Haig and others around Nixon at that time said he wanted to put a man on the moon in '69 (ater he took office). NASA wasn't ready. I believe, if Nixon faked this, it was a private ode to President Kennedy who said we'd have a man on the moon by the end of this decade (1969).

Kathy C

I thought my post here disappeared by some technicality. So I posted this post (basically the same) twice. Sorry.

Edited March 18, 2011 by Kathleen Collins

[Matthew Lewis]

There is a news conference held in some auditorium with the 3 men sitting stone-faced on a dais: Buzz Aldrin, Neil Armstrong and Michael Collins. I've never seen such crest-fallen people in my life. You have to watch it to believe it. Collins accidentally remarked about his falling over the TV cables. One of the other astronauts starts to speak and mentions the "scientific camera," as a cover for Collins. They sit there like they're in a trance. So what I'm saying is, who can you believe? And that's why I asked my "ignorant" questions.

That interview is after they had been separated from their families for weeks because of the mission and weeks of imposed quarantine. There are plenty of other videos and pictures of them looking very happy after the landings.

On youtube.com there is a sequence of videos claiming the moon walk was a hoax perpetrated by Nixon and filmed by film director Kubrick, who afterwards became a recluse. Kissinger, Nixon's first secretary, Alexander Haig and others around Nixon at that time said he wanted to put a man on the moon in '69 (ater he took office). NASA wasn't ready. I believe, if Nixon faked this, it was a private ode to President Kennedy who said we'd have a man on the moon by the end of this decade (1969).

Kathy C

Kubrick was quite busy with some other films at the time. Also of note is there are plenty of signs of atmosphere on the Moon and non-zero gravity when it should be zero in Kubricks films and NONE in Apollo. For Kubrick to have filmed the landing he would have done so in England. He didn't like to fly and didn't leave the country at that time.

Edited March 18, 2011 by Matthew Lewis

[Evan Burton]

In such low gravity on the moon or floating in their space capsules, how do astronauts keep their food down?

Kathy C

That is an excellent question

First, let's talk about the food. It was carefully selected and prepared. To begin with, it was preferred if the food was 'low residue', meaning they didn't have to poop so often (a very unpleasant experience in a spacecraft). Next, it had to be able to be stored without any refrigeration (no icebox in the spacecraft!). Of course, it had to provide necessary vitamins and minerals needed by the astronauts - the moonwalkers especially, who expended a great deal of energy during their EVAs. And, of course, you had to be able to eat it in low / no gravity conditions. Lastly, it was highly desirable for it to take up as least amount of volume as possible, and weigh as least as possible; space was at a premium inside the spacecraft, and keeping the weight down was critical.

When the first manned space flights started, they experimented with various types: cubes of freeze-dried food, meals turned into a paste and put in a tube, etc. Obviously a prime concern was not to be a messy eater - crumbs or flakes floating around the spacecraft could short out electrical equipment or cause other damage. There was also concern that an astronaut would not be able to actually eat in microgravity; John Glenn and others showed that this was not a issue. Once the astronaut could get food into their mouth, eating and swallowing was as per normal.

(As you are no doubt aware, swallowing doesn't rely on gravity - the oesophagus actually 'kneads' the masticated food down into the stomach)

What was a problem though was taste - the food was not appetising, and was at times downright horrible. As experience in spaceflight was gained, things improved. They mixed gelatin in with some foods so it wouldn't form crumbs. Dehydrated food was placed in plastic bags with a nozzle; water could be injected (on Apollo, they had hot water), the contents mixed by squeezing and then squeezed out of the packet into the mouth.

Most importantly it started tasting better. They also came up with 'spoon bowl' meals. When the contents were re-hydrated, the moisture content allowed the contents to become sticky and be eaten with a spoon.

The astronauts were now able to select what foods they wanted to eat. Al Bean (Apollo 12) was said to have loved spaghetti. Here is the menu for his fellow moonwalker, Pete Conrad:

If you are really interested, you can read all about the development of the 'food systems' here (PDF document).

[Jack White]

I couldn't find a moon walk thread here because it was everybody fighting. But I have questions. Maybe Jack White could answer.

First Moon Walk

How did we get through the Van Allen Radiation Belts?

Why is it that when the astronauts were on the moon there was gravity. On youtube.com you can see them jumping, not "flying." Often we were shown how lack of gravity made the astronauts in their capsule float freely in the air. Why didn't we see this on the first moon walk?

Also, if there's no gravity, how could they stay on the moon? Wouldn't they fly off into space? And the rocket too?

Thank You,

Kathy C

There is gravity on the moon, about one-sixth that of earth. The astronots are seen jumping because they were suspended by wires and filmed in slo-mo

in a studio on earth. No Apollo missions are likely to have reached the moon. No astronots were exposed to VanAllen radiation because they never left

low earth orbit.

Jack

This, from the guy who once asked how the "astronots" could have carried the Lunar Rover down the steps of the LEM. Too funny.

Todd is resorting to fiction again. Officially, the rovers were stowed outside the LMs, just to port of the descent ladder.

But there are NO PHOTOS showing this. If I ever said anything about carrying a LM down the ladder, I may have been

trying to make a joke...since no believable photos exist of the "stowed" LM.

Jack

[Evan Burton]

Todd is resorting to fiction again. Officially, the rovers were stowed outside the LMs, just to port of the descent ladder.

But there are NO PHOTOS showing this. If I ever said anything about carrying a LM down the ladder, I may have been

trying to make a joke...since no believable photos exist of the "stowed" LM.

Jack

No Jack - you have been told over and over again, but you refuse to admit you were wrong. Officially, in every single photograph (of which there are many) and in every piece of documentation, the LRV was stowed in Quad 1 of the LM's descent stage.

Just because YOU say differently, and have not one shred of evidence to back your claim, will not change reality. Facts are stubborn things.

[Evan Burton]

[Evan Burton]

[Jack White]

I couldn't find a moon walk thread here because it was everybody fighting. But I have questions. Maybe Jack White could answer.

First Moon Walk

How did we get through the Van Allen Radiation Belts?

Why is it that when the astronauts were on the moon there was gravity. On youtube.com you can see them jumping, not "flying." Often we were shown how lack of gravity made the astronauts in their capsule float freely in the air. Why didn't we see this on the first moon walk?

Also, if there's no gravity, how could they stay on the moon? Wouldn't they fly off into space? And the rocket too?

Thank You,

Kathy C

There is gravity on the moon, about one-sixth that of earth. The astronots are seen jumping because they were suspended by wires and filmed in slo-mo

in a studio on earth. No Apollo missions are likely to have reached the moon. No astronots were exposed to VanAllen radiation because they never left

low earth orbit.

Jack

This, from the guy who once asked how the "astronots" could have carried the Lunar Rover down the steps of the LEM. Too funny.

Todd is resorting to fiction again. Officially, the rovers were stowed outside the LMs, just to port of the descent ladder.

But there are NO PHOTOS showing this. If I ever said anything about carrying a LM down the ladder, I may have been

trying to make a joke...since no believable photos exist of the "stowed" LM.

Jack

[Evan Burton]

There is a news conference held in some auditorium with the 3 men sitting stone-faced on a dais: Buzz Aldrin, Neil Armstrong and Michael Collins. I've never seen such crest-fallen people in my life. You have to watch it to believe it. Collins accidentally remarked about his falling over the TV cables. One of the other astronauts starts to speak and mentions the "scientific camera," as a cover for Collins. They sit there like they're in a trance. So what I'm saying is, who can you believe? And that's why I asked my "ignorant" questions.

That's because they were tired. Do know that after the landing they visited 25 different countries in 35 days? How many states within those countries did they visit? And how many functions do you think they did per day?

On youtube.com there is a sequence of videos claiming the moon walk was a hoax perpetrated by Nixon and filmed by film director Kubrick, who afterwards became a recluse. Kissinger, Nixon's first secretary, Alexander Haig and others around Nixon at that time said he wanted to put a man on the moon in '69 (ater he took office). NASA wasn't ready. I believe, if Nixon faked this, it was a private ode to President Kennedy who said we'd have a man on the moon by the end of this decade (1969).

Kathy C

I thought my post here disappeared by some technicality. So I posted this post (basically the same) twice. Sorry.

That clip is from a mockumentry called "Dark Side of the Moon" - it's fiction, made up to poke fun at the moon hoaxers... and show how gullible they can be with something that appears to support their views. If you watch the whole thing, you'll see character names from various Kubrik films appearing all over the place, sometimes mixed together (e.g. Dimiti Muffley - Russian Premier Dimitri Kissoff, and President Merkin Muffley, from Dr Strangelove).

Edited March 20, 2011 by Evan Burton
Corrected spelling error