I got "sucked in"

[Thomas Graves]

Just say the words and I'll be only too happy to make this thread invisible.

A death to this thread.

Hear, hear!

Edited April 12, 2011 by Thomas Graves

[Greg Burnham]

Bernie,

You and Tom are, of course, correct. I was really of a different mind back then. If the same happened today, I would surely disapprove with a great deal of vigor. I am not now

nor was I ever a Reagan fan. However, like I said, back then I did agree with the action. Now, looking back, I believe it was wrong and I was wrong. Thanks for pointing this

out. It's a bit embarrassing, truth be told.

Sorry that I didn't make my position clearer, but the title of this thread was "I got sucked in, how many of you did?" -- IOW: I too got sucked in.

Edited April 12, 2011 by Greg Burnham

[Bernie Laverick]

Bernie,

You and Tom are, of course, correct. I was really of a different mind back then. If the same happened today, I would surely disapprove with a great deal of vigor. I am not now

nor was I ever a Reagan fan. However, like I said, back then I did agree with the action. Now, looking back, I believe it was wrong and I was wrong. Thanks for pointing this

out. It's a bit embarrassing, truth be told.

Now that's more like the Greg Burnham I've come to like and respect over the years on this forum. A great response, dripping with honesty. Cheers Greg...

[Ron Ecker]

You want to talk about being sucked in? I voted for Lyndon Johnson in 1964.

I haven't voted since. To hell with all of them.

[Dean Hagerman]

I thought I was hallucinating while reading this thread with all these hate filled replies about my man Ron

Ronald Reagan was a great President and even greater Governor

Edited April 13, 2011 by Dean Hagerman

[Thomas Graves]

You want to talk about being sucked in? I voted for Lyndon Johnson in 1964.

I haven't voted since. To hell with all of them.

Atta boy Ron.

That's the spirit.

--Thomas

Edited April 13, 2011 by Thomas Graves

[Dean Hagerman]

Overall, and examined in depth, one of the worst presidents of the modern era.

Jim

As a fellow Californian I am shocked by this statement

[Jack White]

You want to talk about being sucked in? I voted for Lyndon Johnson in 1964.

I haven't voted since. To hell with all of them.

Atta boy Ron.

That's the spirit.

--Thomas

Almost as bad, I voted for Nixon. Ever since, I have voted independent. I voted for Nixon because

he was NOT LBJ.

I used to think some presidents were "good". I liked Ike and FDR. But after 40+ years of study,

only JFK stands as "not too bad". All others were bad, crooks, or worse. LBJ was worst, followed

by Nixon and both Bushes. Others were bad or simply mediocre.

Jack

[Don Jeffries]

As time goes by, the disastrous effect Reagan had on all but the wealthiest citizens in America becomes clearer. Even from the standpoint of conservative/liberarians, he was a failure. He didn't cut "gubbmint" at all. He didn't even eliminate the Dept. of Energy, which had just been created by Carter. His huge tax cuts only benefited the richest Americans. Everyone else actually had their taxes raised under Reagan. He was especially awful regarding Social Security; he ignored the long term problems for the quick fix of raising S.S. taxes, which again primarily effected lower-middle class workers. The unions really began to crumble under Reagan, and his pro-corporate/anti-blue collar stance paved the way for NAFTA, which just opened the doors to massive layoffs, lowering of wages, etc. It became somewhat shameful to admit to being "liberal" during the Reagan era. Reagan's administration was also the first to be riddled with what have come to be known as "neo-cons."

Reagan achieved the seemingly impossible, when he actually made our federal tax system more complicated and unfair with his tax "reform" act of 1986. The only "loopholes" Reagan eliminated were valuable deductions for consumer interest loans (car notes, credit cards, student loans) and the raising of the percentage allowed for deduction of medical costs and charity donations. In the same year, he ensured that the explosive illegal immigration issue would never be contained. His ridiculous anmesty proposal, which permitted any family member of an illegal immigrant then in the USA to legally enter the country, resulted in untold millions of new immigrants. Reagan's "reform" act assured that the country would never be able to adequately resolve this crisis. We see the results now, as the conservatives who originally opposed illegal immigration are its biggest boosters, inasmuch as it provides business with an unlmited supply of very cheap labor, who work the jobs "Americans won't do."

Reagan ushered in the era of greed, the "Me" generation, the newly glamorous image of Wall Street. He was personally a bumbling stooge who probably undestood almost none of the agenda he is credited for. His wife was a vain, shallow woman whose attitude was best expressed in her efforts to get Press Secretary James Brady fired (prior to his wounding in the assassination attempt on Reagan) for being too fat and unattractive. She also was addicted to astrology, and advised Reagan on decisions of state based on zodiac readings. He was hardly a family man; estranged from his children, he never even saw his grandchildren until they were a few years old. Like the oft-married (with no children) Rush Limbaugh, Reagan epitomized the hypocricy of "family values" style Republicans.

Because of the attitudes Reagan fostered in a sizable percentage of the public, the top 400 richest Americans now have more combined wealth than the bottom 50% of the people combined. That incredible selfishness, which results in the kind of proposals we see from Rep. Ryan and the Republicans, where cutting Medicaid and Medicare while leaving untouched the military, intelligence agencies and the massive "war" costs in Iraq and Afghanistan, is the official doctrine of the Republicans now. Meanwhile, the Democrats grow wimpier and more defensive all the time. We absolutely have to stop voting for these Republicrats. Go selectively independent, or like Ron, stop voting.

[Pat Speer]

I live in Simi Valley, site of the Reagan Library. I've been to the Library three times, most recently during the 100th birthday celebration. Last year, on my second trip to the Library, I actually watched the sun set from Reagan's grave. Just me and Uncle Ron. When you go through the museum's new exhibits--which are no longer controlled by Nancy and her clique of Reagan-worshippers--you really get a feel for the man.

Like most of us, he was a mixed bag. He was a cold warrior who wanted to get rid of nukes. He was a supply-sider who honestly believed the wealth he provided the already wealthy would somehow trickle-down to the poorest of the poor. He believed America was the land of opportunity and rags-to-riches, no matter what the stats showed. He was a man of the people more concerned with image than reality.

In short, I consider him a bit of a fool, a man with noble intentions so enamored with his self-image as a white knight that he failed to see he was being used by darker forces with less noble intentions. Not that I can prove it, but I suspect this started dawning on him late in life...which is why his brain turned to mush...

P.S. No, I was never sucked in.

Edited April 13, 2011 by Pat Speer

[Pat Speer]

When Kennedy was killed, the highest effective IRS rate was 72 per cent. Today its half that. ANd of course, those rates mainly impact the richest Americans.

When Kennedy was killed, corporate income taxes accounted for about 22 per cent of the total income tax revenue. Today its less than half of that. And in fact, for all intents and purposes, the corporate income tax is one that exists in name only.

Sum total of what Reagonomics did: Lowered taxes on the rich and corporations. Raised taxes on everyone else. (And in fact, as Robert Reich has written, if you restored the tax rates back to where they were in 1963, it would cure the budget deficit.)

If I recall correctly, the high taxes of the period made one man in particular quite wealthy: William Casey. He made a small fortune from publishing books about loopholes which could be used by the wealthy to avoid paying taxes. His obvious patriotism on this matter, lol, was clearly considered impressive to Republican movers and shakers. He formed a foundation with Bush's brother, he headed Nixon's SEC, and was Reagan's campaign director and head of the CIA. He was the man behind the October Surprise, Debategate, and Iran/Contra. What a guy! What a resume!

[Ron Ecker]

Let's not forget death squads in Central America. Ronnie thought they were a good thing. Ditto mining the harbor in Managua. Why not?

But how can you not like a guy who will lie right to your face on national TV? "We did not trade arms for hostages." I also remember a swap of imprisoned spies with the Russians. "There was no connection between these releases."

Reagan thought we the people were just as idiotic as he was. Actually, maybe he was right.

[Dean Hagerman]

Overall, and examined in depth, one of the worst presidents of the modern era.

Jim

As a fellow Californian I am shocked by this statement

I'd fully agree with Jim's quote. Although not an American I lived under the rule of Margaret Thatcher for many, many years. Maggie and Ronnie were in bed together, figuratively speaking concerning economic policy, because if that literally happened I'm sure there's a chance that the anti-Christ is amongst us.

It's not you is it, Dean?

Well my family made good money in the 80s and growing up I was never denied anything

My father made me work for my video games and toys, but my mom always spolied us to death

So in the 80s my family was in great shape and I have very happy memories of the Reagan era

I cant speak for others but as far as I am concerned the 80s were an amazing time and im proud to have grown up in the 80s with Reagan as my president

[Terry Priest]

the picture that sticks most in my mind of the Reagan years was the photo in "The Progressive" with the night's kill laying on the road in El Salvador. Allan Nairn was the journalist, the issue was the May 1984 issue of "The Progressive" - "Behind the Death Squads." I cannot find it online. To me its the worst of the anti-communism extra-judicial righteous killings. it must stick in Nairn's mind too, because he still talks about it here.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Authors/Nairn_Reagan_DNinterview.html

as i recall the man called the father of the death squads was trained in vietnam. the latin america paramilitary was set up similar. the cia put out a famous death squad training manual, i cannot find that either, with a picture of people with holes in their head on the cover. i dont have any nolstalgia for reagan. if he did one good thing, it was the disarmament treaties. other than that...

[Guest Tom Scully]

...Well my family made good money in the 80s and growing up I was never denied anything

My father made me work for my video games and toys, but my mom always spolied us to death

So in the 80s my family was in great shape and I have very happy memories of the Reagan era

I cant speak for others but as far as I am concerned the 80s were an amazing time and im proud to have grown up in the 80s with Reagan as my president

Dean, I do not know where to begin, but I guess I will start by saying I half suspected your other posts on this thread were satirical. Do you have any sense of a bigger or deeper political picture? How could you post that you are proud that a dupe for the "thing" fronted by the Bush family was your president. Consider the "thing", consider the history and the associations of the Bushes, Samuel, Prescott, George HW, and George W., and describe what it is that you are most proud of? Did you know that the national debt was $995 billion when Reagan "took" office, and $2500 billion, eight years later, when he retired? http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

Consider that Reagan was marketed as the front because the intended front, GHW Bush was not quite ready to be sold to the center right and extreme right majority.

...WWII architect of Japanese American internment, John McCloy, and all-star horse breeder, Will Farish III, all rolled into one individual.

I am most fascinated by the common actions, traits, and career paths of these elite, politically connected men, right down to their war profiteering, "master race" authoritarianism, horse breeding, and right wing to the point of neo-fascist orientation and practice.

How could it possibly all be coincidence, as it is sustained through intermarriage and handed off to succeeding generations,

as in the example of "Skull and Bones"?

http://books.google.com/books?id=cAMoAAAAY...1#search_anchor

1919

Aeroplane Lumber Production in British Columbia BY ROLAND D. CRAIG, ...

Commission of Major Austin C. Taylor, of Montreal, was appointed Supplies ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bralorne

....The Golden Years

As said, Bralorne came into its own in the Great Depression years. In 1931 Austin Taylor and associates acquire Bralorne property and financed construction of a 100 ton mill. The Bralorne Mine operated from March 1932 until 1971. In that time 3 million ounces of gold were refined from its adits.

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?as_us...amp;btnG=Search

COAST PERIL SHIFTS POLICY IN CANADA; Idea That War Must Be Won in Europe Is Shelved -- Pacific Strategy Role Forecast JAPANESE TRANSFER PLAN Board Set Up to Move British Columbia's Aliens -- New Road to Alaska Studied

- New York Times - Mar 1, 1942

... will be composed of three persons under the chairmanship of Austin Taylor, ... It also has the recommendation that it follows the present air route from ...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&saf...amp;btnG=Search

http://books.google.com/books?id=V5G6fHCHS...9&ct=result

Redress: Inside the Japanese Canadian Call for Justice - Google Books Result

by Roy Miki - 2004 - Political Science - 361 pages

The following day Austin Taylor, head of the BCSC, resorted to Order No. ... obey any order of the British Columbia Security Commission directing any such ...

http://www.canadianhorseracinghalloffame.c...n_C_Taylor.html

Builders 1976

Austin C. Taylor assembled the most powerful stable ever seen in Western Canada during the 1930s. His white, green and red colors flew high along the coast from Vancouver’s Lansdowne Park to the Santa Anita track in California. With his operation centered at the ACT Stock Farm at Milner, the showplace of B.C. breeding farms, Taylor brought to the west big league runners like Dolan, who had been third in the Preakness Stakes at Pimlico, and won the Suburban Handicap in New York; African, Campanini and Wahomonie....

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?as_ld...amp;btnG=Search

New York Times - Jul 7, 1950

The marriage of Miss Patricia Aldyen Austin Taylor, daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Austin C. Taylor of Vancouver, to William Francis Buckley Jr., son of Mr. and ...

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/04/16/...Pat-Buckley.php

...Patricia Alden Austin Taylor was born July 1, 1926, in Vancouver, British Columbia. She met her future husband while a student at Vassar College. He was her roommate's brother. The young couple soon settled in Hamden while he wrote his first book, "God and Man at Yale."

Christopher Buckley, the author and editor, is her only child.

http://books.google.com/books?id=5gJoqTDzo...ritish+columbia

Strictly Right

By Linda Bridges, John R. Coyne

(Wm. F. Buckley Jr.'s sister, Trish Buckley, Vassar college roommate of Buckley's future wife,

Patricia Austin Taylor, married Brent Bozell and they became the parents of this current day, American'neo-fascist):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Brent_Bozell_III

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Political...sophy/HL380.cfm

January 21, 1992

by L. Brent Bozell, III

Why Conservatives Should Be Optimistic About the Media

...Leftism on the Defensive

The Dominant Media Culture today is clearly on the defensive. The conservative movement ushered in by Ronald Reagan is the driving cultural force on the American scene...

.8) Help train the next generation.

...Imagine, if you will, a future wherein the media willfully support the foreign policy objectives of the United States. A time when the left can no longer rely on the media to promote its socialist agenda to the public. A time when someone, somewhere in the media can be counted on to extol the virtues of morality without qualifications. When Betty Friedan no longer qualifies for "Person of the Week" honors. When Ronald Reagan is cited not as the "Man of the Year," but the "Man of the Century."....

JFK was as a casualty of an ideological, political power struggle, Dean. On one side of it are the rest of us; about 295 million Americans. On the other side of it are a ruthless

few who "market" front men like Reagan, the Bushes, Clinton, and Obama. Their marketing enlists the distribution of information that only the professional media that these ruthless few own in its entirety could be capable of achieving these upside down results.

As politically oriented to the establishment center right as it is, why do you think they are so desperately trying to defund National Public Broadcasting now, Dean? If you answer it is because they are trying to cut the deficit, it is the wrong answer. It is because the politicians who represent only the agenda of the ruthless few have their marching orders to weaken PBS. The reason is because PBS and NPR are the largest distributors of information the ruthless do not own and they cannot buy it up.

Dean, it seems a disconnect of logic to be proud Reagan was your president and be as concerned as you seem to be over a conspiracy in the murder of JFK.

If JFK had lived to fulfill his political potential, do you think Reagan would still have emerged and been elected president? Why? How?