David Ferrie -- Belcher Oil

[David G. Healy]

I was reading somewhere recently that Ferrie called Belcher Oil in

Texas multiple times.Can someone shed some info? What I want to know is

if the Belcher who owned the Oil Co. is related to Frank Belcher Sr.

former head of the California Bar and an Atty. for John Wayne at one

point who Chauncey Holt said was business partner of Phillip Twombley a

VP of Pepsi,, the main guy responsible for the fake ID's to allegedly be

used in Dealey Plaza according to Holt...Laz

(posted for Laz P. -- DHealy 05.12.2011)

[Bernice Moore]

hi dave there is mention of such within this thread fwiw...take care...b;)

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=14224

[Kathleen Collins]

The only thing I know about Ferrie was that he was an ex-Jesuit. And Pepsico, I've read recently, is one of the Corporations that will "take over the world - New World Order." Also Nixon was an attorney for them. A Jesuit in any form cannot be trusted to do good.

I know this is not what you're looking for. Maybe I'll take a ride through the Internet.

Kathy C

[David G. Healy]

hi dave there is mention of such within this thread fwiw...take care...b;)

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=14224

tnx B.....

[Kathleen Collins]

David, I found some info on Belcher Oil and it's just a little thing. They are some how related to Kennedy's Assassination. They're called "Members." There were Frank Belchers living in Dallas TX on zabasearch.com

BELCHER, ED...................\231 \

BELCHER, GEORGE (JR & SR).....\231

BELCHER OIL COMPANY...........\231 \

Kathy C

Edited May 14, 2011 by Kathleen Collins

[David G. Healy]

David, I found some info on Belcher Oil and it's just a little thing. They are some how related to Kennedy's Assassination. They're called "Members." There were Frank Belchers living in Dallas TX on zabasearch.com

BELCHER, ED...................\231 \

BELCHER, GEORGE (JR & SR).....\231

BELCHER OIL COMPANY...........\231 \

Kathy C

thanks Kathy....

David H.

[Steve Duffy]

David, always admire your post's...I'd like to see some more come from this..

I'm currently compiling a massive name-base (updating-or trying to, follow in Mary Ferrell's elegant footsteps..and was very surprised when I saw this Belcher Oil connection...with all the batting away with each other in the other threads, maybe this important lead has been lost to others...I hope I've bumped this to where it need to be...

[William Kelly]

I was reading somewhere recently that Ferrie called Belcher Oil in

Texas multiple times.Can someone shed some info? What I want to know is

if the Belcher who owned the Oil Co. is related to Frank Belcher Sr.

former head of the California Bar and an Atty. for John Wayne at one

point who Chauncey Holt said was business partner of Phillip Twombley a

VP of Pepsi,, the main guy responsible for the fake ID's to allegedly be

used in Dealey Plaza according to Holt...Laz

(posted for Laz P. -- DHealy 05.12.2011)

Hello David, and excuse my tardiness for failing to respond to this post earlier.

I interviewed Chauncey Holt for hours and while I did substantiate a number of connections that he presented,

I would like to see a more clear connection established between Frank Belcher, Sr., former head of the California Bar

and either the Belcher Oil of Florida that has been associated with the CIA Cuban raider ship Rex, or

the Belcher Oil of Dallas, Texas that David Ferrie had telephone contact with.

Either would be significant, but other than Holt's accusation, I haven't found any connection between any of the

Belchers, not to say there isn't any.

If there are such associations, then it would be a significant connections between the CIA ship Rex and Ferrie and Twombly,

but so far all I've seen is the same last name.

Although I lived on the same street in the same town as Grace Kelly, I am not related to her, nor to Emmit Kelly or Ned Kelly.

But if a direct association, kinship or corporate relationship can be made between Frank Belcher, Sr. Belcher Oil of Dallas

and Belcher Oil of Florida, it would be a significant lead that would pan out in spades, and is beyond my reach.

Belcher Oil of Dallas was run by an lady and sold heating oil to residences and businesses in Dallas area.

Belcher Oil of Florida, and connected to the CIA's raider ship Rex, sells fuel oil to boats, ships (and probably airplanes), but appears to be a totally different company

than the Balcher Oil in Dallas that David Ferrie contacted by telephone.

Maybe a better researcher can make the connections, if there is one, but I couldn't.

All the best, and thanks for bringing this up,

Bill Kelly

JFKcountercoup.blogspot.com

[Guest Tom Scully]

I looked at the Dallas Belcher couple.

...PAROLE INQUIRY RESUMED HERE BY GRAND JURY

Pay-Per-View - Chicago Tribune - ProQuest Archiver - Jul 16, 1948

Federal grand Jury . of the Paroles of members co. A.M. Belcher. the Capone gang was resumed yes terday on of United States Atty. Otto Kerner Jr. A witness be- fore the Jury wis identified as A.M. Belcher, husband of Mae Belcher, Wth, Tex., oil *opera tot, believed to have some clew to tne mystery man, "Mike Ryan," who paid $15000 to a friend of United States Atty. Gen. Tom C. Clark for service In having a federal indictment dii. mI,'ri E i - . \'The -grand jury making thi1. investigation has been Inactive for ' weeks as has the committee 'which'. undertook to run down reports thati a- fortune In cash was paid for the -freedom oft Paul Ricca. Louis Campagna,-Charles Gloe and Phil D'Andrea, -all gangsters whohad been convicted of a $1000000 , A, third-- Inquiry 'wesa launched a week. ago by Federal Judge' Michael L. Igoe before whom -av-habeas corpus case ln Ricca Is-pending....

I got no more out of it than Bill says he has been able to. I could search census records but I think it will be a waste of time. The record is that A.M. and Mae were small time, scam artists specializing in cheating little old ladies out of their savings.

I dug up the newspaper report of the 1936 mail fraud case. It was a carbon copy scam of the crimes described in the 1974 appeal, with a gold mine substituted for an oil field.

A.M. plead guilty and received a $100 fine. Charges were dropped against Mae. It appears in 1963 that Mae was 73 and A.M. was 79. By 1965, they seemed to have almost no income.

http://tx.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19740206_0040213.TX.htm/qx

A.M. BELCHER AND MAE BELCHER v. STATE TEXAS (02/06/74)

...A. M. Belcher testified that Osborn's $10,000 check to the Good Earth Oil Company account was in payment for money due him on a separate oil venture in which he and Osborn were partners, but which ended in a dry hole. Belcher was impeached on cross-examination when the State elicited testimony that his annual net earnings for 1965 and 1966 were $650 and $2000, respectively, and that he never used the United States mails because "it is a known fact that the government figures every oil deal is a fraud" and so that he would not get in trouble with the federal government. Later, on re-cross, the State established that Belcher had in fact been convicted of mail fraud in 1936...

LA Bar assoc. bio of Frank B Belcher with names of his parents.:

http://www.lacba.org/showpage.cfm?pageid=5918

The founder and chairman of Belcher Oil of Miami died about 27 Nov., 1971 :

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=crkqAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cmYEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4118,5579743&dq=belcher&hl=en

Edited May 15, 2011 by Tom Scully

[William Kelly]

Thanks Tom,

You're the best at that.

There's still a possibility that Holt's information about Frank Belcher, Jr. being connected, though I haven't seen anything.

And I'm sure that the Belcher Oil family in Florida was well connected to JMWAVE and they might know something about how the CIA fleet operated.

And Tom, will you take a look at the Tippit thread and see if you can find anything on the DPD Capt. Frank W. Martin, Jr., his wife Betty J., their Vanity Poodle company, and if they had any kids?

Thanks,

BK

[David G. Healy]

Thanks Tom,

You're the best at that.

There's still a possibility that Holt's information about Frank Belcher, Jr. being connected, though I haven't seen anything.

And I'm sure that the Belcher Oil family in Florida was well connected to JMWAVE and they might know something about how the CIA fleet operated.

And Tom, will you take a look at the Tippit thread and see if you can find anything on the DPD Capt. Frank W. Martin, Jr., his wife Betty J., their Vanity Poodle company, and if they had any kids?

Thanks,

BK

thanks much Tom-Bill and the gals -- appreciate it!

Edited May 16, 2011 by David G. Healy

[Bernice Moore]

David Belcher Oil is mentioned on Baylor, Armstrong's.files....

http://alturl.com/hnzpp

[Stephen Roy]

First off, beyond the phone records in question, I have not encountered any trace of Belcher Oil in any other connection in Ferrie's background.

Next, a caveat about the phone records. (I might get beat-up for saying this. I'm gonna hate myself in the morning...): These calls are not from Ferrie's home phone (VE5-4535); they are from the office of his employer (March 1962-November 1963), the law firm of Gill, Bernstein, Schreiber and Gill. The main number was 524-0147 and the unpublished line was 288-4648. Both lines were available to all the people in the office, which included Ferrie, Gill, Bernstein, Schreiber and Gill, and several interns, secretaries and investigators. These records show only toll calls, not local calls. Three years after the assassination, on January 4, 1967, secretary Alice Guidroz went through the monthly bills and drew a line through any call she could identify as Gill's, and turned them over to Jim Garrison's office. In this light, it is fair to say that any of the remaining calls MIGHT have been made by Ferrie, but given the open access to the phones and passage of time, there is no certainty which calls Ferrie made. However, they are still worthy of inquiry.

The number in question, EM8-6993, was called on 9/5/62 (from 524-0147) and on 9/5, 10/1, 10/5, 10/18, 10/22, 10/30 and 11/29/62 (from 288-4648). The 1961 Dallas phone book listed that number as: Mae Belcher & A. Mack Belcher, 6042 Averill Way. The 1962 and 1963 phone books listed it as: A.M. Belcher Oil Co, 6042 Averill Way.

See Tom's info on this couple, above.

Edited May 17, 2011 by Stephen Roy

[William Kelly]

First off, beyond the phone records in question, I have not encountered any trace of Belcher Oil in any other connection in Ferrie's background.

Next, a caveat about the phone records. (I might get beat-up for saying this. I'm gonna hate myself in the morning...): These calls are not from Ferrie's home phone (VE5-4535); they are from the office of his employer (March 1962-November 1963), the law firm of Gill, Bernstein, Schreiber and Gill. The main number was 524-0147 and the unpublished line was 288-4648. Both lines were available to all the people in the office, which included Ferrie, Gill, Bernstein, Schreiber and Gill, and several interns, secretaries and investigators. These records show only toll calls, not local calls. Three years after the assassination, on January 4, 1967, secretary Alice Guidroz went through the monthly bills and drew a line through any call she could identify as Gill's, and turned them over to Jim Garrison's office. In this light, it is fair to say that any of the remaining calls MIGHT have been made by Ferrie, but given the open access to the phones and passage of time, there is no certainty which calls Ferrie made. However, they are still worthy of inquiry.

The number in question, EM8-6993, was called on 9/5/62 (from 524-0147) and on 9/5, 10/1, 10/5, 10/18, 10/22, 10/30 and 11/29/62 (from 288-4648). The 1961 Dallas phone book listed that number as: Mae Belcher & A. Mack Belcher, 6042 Averill Way. The 1962 and 1963 phone books listed it as: A.M. Belcher Oil Co, 6042 Averill Way.

See Tom's info on this couple, above.

Thanks Steve,

And that also applies to the phone call to Chicago hotel-apartment where Jean Aase resided.

BK

[Robert Howard]

First off, beyond the phone records in question, I have not encountered any trace of Belcher Oil in any other connection in Ferrie's background.

Next, a caveat about the phone records. (I might get beat-up for saying this. I'm gonna hate myself in the morning...): These calls are not from Ferrie's home phone (VE5-4535); they are from the office of his employer (March 1962-November 1963), the law firm of Gill, Bernstein, Schreiber and Gill. The main number was 524-0147 and the unpublished line was 288-4648. Both lines were available to all the people in the office, which included Ferrie, Gill, Bernstein, Schreiber and Gill, and several interns, secretaries and investigators. These records show only toll calls, not local calls. Three years after the assassination, on January 4, 1967, secretary Alice Guidroz went through the monthly bills and drew a line through any call she could identify as Gill's, and turned them over to Jim Garrison's office. In this light, it is fair to say that any of the remaining calls MIGHT have been made by Ferrie, but given the open access to the phones and passage of time, there is no certainty which calls Ferrie made. However, they are still worthy of inquiry.

The number in question, EM8-6993, was called on 9/5/62 (from 524-0147) and on 9/5, 10/1, 10/5, 10/18, 10/22, 10/30 and 11/29/62 (from 288-4648). The 1961 Dallas phone book listed that number as: Mae Belcher & A. Mack Belcher, 6042 Averill Way. The 1962 and 1963 phone books listed it as: A.M. Belcher Oil Co, 6042 Averill Way.

See Tom's info on this couple, above.

Thanks Steve,

And that also applies to the phone call to Chicago hotel-apartment where Jean Aase resided.

BK

I can vouch for Stephen Roy's information regarding the phone book listings in the Dallas telephone directory....

It might be a considerable achievement, if the A.M. Belcher who was married to Mae Belcher, could be verified as the same

A. M. Belcher who has been cited as a once member of the Al Capone gang......

FWIW

I have discovered that some of "Oswald's associates" were connected to Organized Crime, such as the co-worker at Jagger Chiles Stovall

John Cesar Grossi, was convicted circa 1970-71

ARRB MD 235 - ARRB Call and Meeting Reports of October 7, 1996 Telephone Interview, and October 22, 1996

In-Person Interview of Carl Belcher (Former Justice Department Official Associated With Inventory Process of JFK

Autopsy and Photographs Nov 1966)

http://www.maryferre...757&relPageId=2

during this point in our conversation, he was interrupting repeatedly with objections

to being questioned for any reason and I am not sure that the message I was relaying about the possibility of ARRB issuing a subpoena

even registered with him -After I again explained that our task today was to arrange for a mutually agreeable interview date for an in-person

interview, he stated "I don't give a damn who your boss is, who you are or what your agency is," and hung up the phone in the middle of our

conversation, with our business unresolved.

Summarizing, throughout his conversations with Mr. Montague and myself, Mr Belcher continually interrupted, sprinkled his conversation with

profanity, spoke in a loud derisive and aggresive manner and demeaned our efforts as unimportant and trivial.When we attempted to explain

exactly what topics we were interested in discussing with him and why, he countered by demanding an immediate on-the-spot telephonic

interview. When it became clear to him that his tactic of attempting to find out exactly what our questions were was not going to work, he terminated the

telephone call. END

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Name: Arthur Mack Belcher

Death Date: 24 Jan 1947

Death Place: Austin, Travis, Texas

Gender: Male

Race:

Death Age: 37 years 3 months 23 days

Estimated Birth Date: 1910

Birth Date:

Birthplace:

Marital Status:

Spouse's Name:

Father's Name: William E. Belcher

Father's Birthplace:

Mother's Name: Louise Williams

Mother's Birthplace:

Occupation:

Place of Residence:

Cemetery:

Burial Place: Brownwood, Texas

Burial Date: 25 Jan 1947

Additional Relatives:

Film Number: 2218565

Digital Film Number: 4031922

Image Number: 1300

Reference Number: 4649

Name: Mack Belcher

Residence: Grayson, Texas

Estimated Birth Year: 1906

Age: 14

Birthplace: Texas

Relationship to Head of Household: Son

Gender: Male

Race: White

Marital Status: Single

Father's Birthplace: Arkansas

Mother's Birthplace: Texas

Film Number: 1821809

Digital Folder Number: 4390416

Image Number: 00979

Sheet Number: 2

Household Gender Age

Parent Thaddeus M Belcher M 54y

Parent Minnie O Belcher F 45y

Joseph Belcher M 19y

Bessie P Belcher F 16y

Mack Belcher M 14y

Estelle Belcher F 12y

William Belcher M 10y

James C Belcher M 9y

Thaddeus W Belcher M 7y

Paper: Owensboro Messenger-Inquirer (KY)

Title: deaths Mae L. Belcher

Date: April 10, 2005

Section: C Page: 2

Mae L. Belcher, 84, of Owensboro died at 5:35 a.m. Friday, April 8, 2005, at her home. She was born in Butler County and retired from Owensboro Mercy Hospital. She was a member of Sandy Creek Baptist Church and was preceded in death by her parents, Nathan McCoy and Alma McKinney McCoy; her husband, Forrest Givens; her second husband, Benjamine Richard Harlan; and two sisters, Zora Hudall and Martha Brooks. Survivors include her husband, Odle Glen Belcher of Owensboro; a son, Troy L. Givens of Franklin; a stepson, Kenneth Belcher of Nashville; three grandchildren, Wendy Blocker and Tracy Givens, both of Austin, Texas, and Gregory Givens of Houston; a great-grandson, Zackery Miranda of Austin; two brothers, Willard McCoy of Louisville and Hubert McCoy of Otisco, Ind.; and several nieces and nephews. Services are at 1 p.m. Monday at Sandy Creek Baptist Church. Burial will be in Elmwood Cemetery in Owensboro. Visitation is from 1 to 8 p.m. today and from 9 a.m. to 12:30 p.m. Mon!

day at Jones Funeral Chapel in Morgantown.

Section: C

Page: 2

Copyright, 2005, Owensboro Messenger-Inquirer

This does not appear to be THE Mae Belcher, as she was married to A.M. Belcher

Finding the maiden name of THE Mae Belcher would be a big help in all of this